But if ones reads the Bible in its entirety it does not stop the fact that those laws and nasty bits are still there. Yet people recommend that the Bibke in its entirety be used as a life guide. Do they really just mean the NT?
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But if ones reads the Bible in its entirety it does not stop the fact that those laws and nasty bits are still there. Yet people recommend that the Bibke in its entirety be used as a life guide. Do they really just mean the NT?
I have always thought of it this way - The old testament is before the coming of Christ - the new testament is during and after Christ.
Like I have said, I am not as educated on the Bible as I would like. I would love for someone to explain the stark contrast of the old and new testaments.
I know that when I have asked - they tell me not to start reading the Bible from the beginning (Gen.) but start with John. That it would make more sense to me.
I understand what you are saying but wouldn't that be like telling someone to start a crime thriller from the bit where they catch the murderer because it makes more sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
Maybe a bad analogy but I really don't see anyone answering NK's quite legitimate questions! Surely one can't pick what bits are to be taken literally and which bits aren't to?
We've all read a good book. I used to like to read books by Mark Twain. You know, Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn. There was a beginning a middle and an end to the book. There were calm moments, scary moments, exciting moments, romantic moments, etc. There were parts of the book that affected us deeply and parts that were a bit dull. No matter what we thought of the overall book, it was what it was. The book, in its entirety came from the heart and mind of the author.Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
The Bible is a story. It's His Story or history (that's what history means, His Story). It has a beginning "In the beginning, God"; it generally goes in chronological order; it has a middle; then there are parts of the story that we don't know about somewhere between the Old and New Testament; then comes the New Testament. If we really think about it, we should call it the Old Testament and the Older Testament since what we call "New" is more than 2000 years old. I prefer to call it the Whole Testament because it is the Word of God from start to finish. It comes from the heart and mind of God.
Yes, the Old Testament had blood and gore, but wasn't Christ's death on the cross a bit bloody and gory, albeit, glorious? From the moment Cain slew Abel in the very first book in the Bible, Genesis, to the bloody wars spoken of throughout the "Old" Testament to John the Baptist's beheading to Christ's crucifixion to the blood and mayhem that occurs in the book of Revelation (things that haven't even happened yet), the Bible has had its moments of tears and pain. But if you research the Old Testament, there were times when God was very kind and loving and giving to His people. Read the Psalms of King David.
To start reading the Bible from Matthew or John would be like reading a Stephen King novel from chapter 12.
Okay. Fair enough. Like I have said (and will continue to in a thread like this one) I am not as well versed in the Bible like I would like to be. The person who actually told me to start at John was my Pastor. What you are saying makes sense to me.
I'm not going to say that I agree with polygamy but there really isn't much said in the New Testament banning the practice. I don't believe that Christ banned it and it's not mentioned in the 10 Commandments. I'm certainly happy with one wife. It does say that a bishop or leader in the Church should have one wife. I believe that it was permissible in the Old Testament because it was necessary to be fruitful and to multiply and to subdue the earth. Also, Christ was and is our Example. He will be the Groom and His people will be the bride (in a spiritual sense); one bride and one groom. On the other hand, if a bomb exploded and wiped out the majority of human beings on the planet, then I see no reason for people not to do what is necessary to replenish the earth with more people. An interesting topic in and of itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
In the 10 commandments, doesn't it say "thou shalt not commit adultery" ? Wouldn't that cover it? Or by having more than one "wife" it isn't adultery because it is a wife? If you had a wife and then just a girlfriend - would that be considered adultery in the Bible?
Sorry. I do believe that Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that He is the one true saviour. But, sometimes, things like this confuse me.
I see that you have a lot of questions about the bible, I can tell you what I think but since the bible is of no personal interpretation allow me to give you the web address of the prophet for the Laodicea age. You might find something helpful. I may not have revelation upon the entire bible but I know the author real well. www.williambranham.com
Marily,
That man may have issues: he sees a ring shaped cloud and professes it to be a revelation of seven angels to him (link). Elsewhere he suffers from verbal diarrea (just look at the length of this page!).
Action,
That is one book I would never allow my children to read. I'd rather they learn morality from their parents than read about killings, sacrificing, polygamy, incest, etc.
I am glad that you have visited the site, and I appreciate your comment.
Your pastor isn't a bad person for telling you to do that. The books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Deuteronomy, etc. can have some very dry and dull sections (you will find out that even those dry sections have great meaning). Some people might get bored and give up reading the Bible altogether. Your pastor wants you to be excited about reading the Bible so his intentions are good. However, if you really want to have a deep, deep understanding of what is going on in the New Testament, you will short-change yourself if you don't read the Old Testament. It would be like building a beautiful house on sand. There would be no foundation.Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
In the book of Romans chapter 13, we're told to be subject to the civil authority. Fortunately for us, our civil laws (assuming you're in the U.S.) ban bigamy and polygamy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NowWhat
[QUOTE=
Action,
That is one book I would never allow my children to read. I'd rather they learn morality from their parents than read about killings, sacrificing, polygamy, incest, etc.[/QUOTE]
So allowing your children to learn some truth but not all truth will be your approach to childrearing? Okay, fair enough. You will probably have to take out your black marker and cross out the sections of the New Testament where John the Baptist lost his head; cross out Christ's crucifixion; cross out the stoning of the Apostle Stephen; cross out anything and everything that might present itself as violent or bloody. You will also have to shield their eyes from what they see as you drive down the road to the local grocery store as well.
When you endeavor to pick what truth your children will learn, you run the risk of distorting their overall perspective. How can you teach them that something is wrong if they don't know that wrong exists?
Are you saying that the following laws are "nasty bits?":Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Thou shalt not steal
Thou shalt not kill (murder)
Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother
Thou shalt not put other gods before Me (God)
Thou shalt not covet
Interesting.
Read the Whole Testament.
Why did you completely skip over the post I made earlier and only mention the 10% good bits in the OT?
As for those things you mentioned, I don't need a book to tell me to honour my parents, not steal and not sleep with my neighbour's wife, I was raised with those morals from the get go.
Are you saying that the only solution to learning about wrong is to read the bible?Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
BTW we do teach our children to tell the truth, like any good parent. I'm not sure what 'truth' you speak of.
Are you discussing morals (moral relativism) here or Christianity? Christianity is about faith. Faith in the Old Testament & faith in the New Testament. My denomination is Christ. It's pretty simple. I don't let" denominations" keep me from visiting their Church. There's a couple of denominations that I won't look into because I don't agree with books added to the Bible.
BTW-
Much of the wrath (especially in the Old T) could have been prevented if the people kept commandments #1 & #2.
Love the Lord , your God with all your soul.
Thou shall not have any strange gods before Me.
Those morals orignated in the Old Testament.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
So we know that if something is only 10% good (how you reach that particular number, I don't know) that it is not good enough to teach your children. Please indicate when something IS good enough to teach your children:
A) When it's 20% good?
B) When it's 30% good?
C) When it's 40% good?
D) When it's 50% good?
E) When it's 51% good?
F) When it's 100% good?
1)Would you let your children watch a nature show where a lion eats a gazelle? Too much death and blood?
2)Would you allow your children to see two people in bed, French kissing on television? Premarital sex or adultery or prostitution?
3)Will you allow your children to learn about evolution in public school? Opposite of God's Creation?
4)Will they be allowed to put a condom on a banana in sex ed? Practice for future activities?
5)Will your children be allowed to watch the evening news with bombs exploding in Iraq or the World Trade Center towers crumbling to the ground? Bloody truth.
6)Does the books of Psalms and Proverbs fall into the "good" part of the Old Testament?
7)How about the story of God's creative power as found in Genesis? Does that fall into the "bad" section?
Out of curiosity, what books would you allow your children to read?
Reading the Bible is certainly a good start to learning right from wrong. If you don't allow your children to read the Bible because there are disturbing truths found there then what book will they read from? From what I have gleaned from your recent statements you must believe that there are books that are better than the Bible from which you shall teach your children. I'm glad that your kids tell some truth (except for Bible truth because they aren't allowed to read it). Quite a unique approach to life. Question: Do you wear rose colored sun glasses? No need to answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Hey need karma,Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Your ignorance, immaturity, and obvious lack of the fear of God is so plain for all to see. Since you seem to be so intent on "bending" the Scripture with you childish actions,I will caution you about this by sharing a scripture with you... Galatians 6:7,8.. Be not deceived, God is not mocked:for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption: but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. I fear for you when you don't have the sense to fear for yourself. You need to repent and beg the forgiveness of a merciful God.
1)Would you let your children watch a nature show where a lion eats a gazelle? After a certain age, say 8 or 9.
2)Would you allow your children to see two people in bed, French kissing on television? Premarital sex or adultery or prostitution? No.
3)Will you allow your children to learn about evolution in public school? Opposite of God's Creation? Big yes on evolution. Public school has nothing to do with christianity teaching.
4)Will they be allowed to put a condom on a banana in sex ed? Practice for future activities? Parents will teach about sex ed. What do you do at your house? How is this relevant to the bible?
5)Will your children be allowed to watch the evening news with bombs exploding in Iraq or the World Trade Center towers crumbling to the ground? Bloody truth. No, not until they get older to understand certain things.
6)Does the books of Psalms and Proverbs fall into the "good" part of the Old Testament? Tough call, Psalms is somewhat benign, I forget about Proverbs.
7)How about the story of God's creative power as found in Genesis? Does that fall into the "bad" section? Yes.
Out of curiosity, what books would you allow your children to read? Age appropriate books.
I hope that answers your questions. :)
Hello poppa0777. Nice to meet you. The very name "NeedKarma" kind of says it all. Karma is a philosophy taught in the eastern religions (hinduism or buddhism? ) so it comes as no surprise that NK is opposed to all that is Godly and Christian. He/she has a great deal of animosity towards Holy Scriptures. He/she will pick what questions he/she will answer but avoid the tough ones. He/she argues for the sake of arguing. We will always come across NKs in our life... people who don't care about truth or falsehood but always fall victim to their own self deceit. On the other hand, there are others who are an oasis of common sense. Again, nice to meet you.Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa0777
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa0777
For the record I meant to disagree with this post! Unnecessary in my view.
NK has not showed ignorance nor immaturity. He has asked questions, which obviously have struck a chord with you and brought on this attack.
I have not seen you address his questions at all. Why not?
I agree with the post by poppa. NK's post( to marily) was sarcastic & disrespectful of Chrisianity & the Bible.
For the record... Skell :p
Why the hatred? All I did was post quotes from the bible. The same thing that most of you do in every other post. What part of that has angered you? It's all from the same book that you offer as an excellent life guide.
Did you not see where I answered every single one of your questions? Yet no one has answered the questions I originally posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
Well I must admit, you answered MOST of the questions but I'm still interested to know where you draw the line between 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%, 51%, or 100%. You know what I'm talking about... you can revisit the post if you don't remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
The Bible is more than just a "life guide." You may hear some people repeating that mantra but I'm not one of them. Yes, it contains God's plan for how we should live our lives but it's more than that. It's a history of man's origin; his migrations; his interactions with God and man. Even the portions of the Bible where men do evil things are a benefit to the reader because it shows the consequences of doing evil vs. doing things righteously. The Bible transcends time because it speaks of things to come. The Bible should be a comfort to the reader but also a warning. More than anything, the Bible reveals God's undying love for His creation. Not only did He love mankind enough to create him in the first place, but He loved us enough to send His Son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins. I haven't yet heard you make the claim that you are without sin so I assume that you recognize the fact that you aren't without sin. If Christ's painful suffering and death was not a sufficient sacrifice for your sins, then who will be? Buddha?
I have not read every post you have ever written so I'm not completely familiar with your entire philosophy. I know that you reject God and His Word. That being the case, what's your blueprint for life? Remember, if you're wrong, your example and teaching will lead your children down the very same path you're heading.
Well it helps to at least read the posts in the thread that you are posting in. The 10% number stems from this post in this very thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
Well I'm heading down a great path thank you very much. I have a good life with a great wife and kids. I make good decisions. We laugh and explore the world and make friends with all types of people. What's your path like?Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
If you met my kids you'd be impressed by their zest for life, intelligence, empathy and politeness. All this taught to them by their parents. All without the benefit of interpreting vague parables from the bible. How can this be?? I'm actually making my own decisions and selecting my own morals!
Okay, so if a book has 20% good bits of truth and 80% bad bits of truth, it's acceptable. That's all I asked and I thank you for your answer. You have now answered all of my questions... thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
In one sense, we're on the very same path i.e. life on this planet. We'll both face similar adversity; we will both laugh and both cry; we will meet really cool people and some really evil individuals; we both care about our families and provide for them the best we can. But if you're not on the path that was paved with the suffering, pain, and death of Jesus Christ, it's not really a "great" path. "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13,14
The only real difference between your path and mine is the difference between our faith or lack of faith in Jesus Christ. Christ opened that door or "gate" for us. It's our choice whether we go in or not.
Marily disagrees: A life without God is not much of a life.
What are you talking about? Millions upon millions of people are having a great life being other than what you are. The arrogance of your statement is frightening. :(
Straight is the gate and narrow is the way, those who find it are few.
None are so blind as those who will not see.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
That is the only "witty" thing I could think of... :)
But it works well.. for both sides. :)
Hi Skell... Would you please be more specific on the "tough issues"? I would like to answer them to the best of my ability.I suspect that our main line of division will be that I believe the Word of God (The Holy Bible) is the absolute,final, complete, and authoritative Work of the Holy Ghost, and must be viewed that way. The problem usually comes in when an unbeliever attempts to discern the Scriptures. Scripture can only be understood and correctly discerned by a Child of the most High God. No one has all of the answers, as the Scripture is spiritually discerned, and answers come to us in God's timing. For me, this takes a lot of prayer and diligence in the Word of God. I have been a serious student of the Scriptures for 32 years, and have far more questions than answers. I write this in the spirit of trying to do and say the right thing:o .Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionJackson
So it is not understood by the regular man, woman, or child?Quote:
Originally Posted by poppa0777
Needkarma,
Yes, I believe that's true-about actually understanding the Bible. Before I was saved, I read a little here & there, but I couldn't make much sense of it then.
2:10 God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 2:11 For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So too, no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. 2:12 Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things that are freely given to us by God. 2:13 And we speak about these things, not with words taught us by human wisdom, but with those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people. 8 2:14 The unbeliever 9 does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him. And he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 2:15 The one who is spiritual discerns 10 all things, yet he himself is understood 11 by no one. 2:16 For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to advise him? 12 But we have the mind of Christ. (1Corinthians 2:10-16)
That's why you keep mentioning the Old Testament Laws. Jesus came to fulfill the law. The Law ends with Jesus. We (Christians) are now under grace, not the law. Only very religious Jews keep all those laws. But that's another story that will be worked out for them in God's time.
So, I hope you understand a little now about those laws.:)
(1Co 2:10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
1Co 2:11) For what man knoweth the things of a man, save (except) the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth (understandeth)no man, but the Spirit of God.
(1Co 2:12) Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
(1Co 2:13) Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
(1Co 2:14) But the natural man (non-Christians)receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know (understand)them, because they are spiritually discerned.
(1Co 2:15) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
(1Co 2:16) For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we (Christians)have the mind of Christ.
I hope this helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Thanks for the thumbs up. I can move on now.
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