That sort of fact-less based thinking sickens me. Unfortunately we can expect this type of thought from the world... it just saddens me that people miss the SIMPLE message of the Gospel and try and turn love into something filthy and perverse.

Comment from HH
That sort of fact-less based thinking sickens me. Unfortunately we can expect this type of thought from the world...it just saddens me that people miss the SIMPLE message of the Gospel and try and turn love into something filthy and perverse

Thanks for the "reddie." I did not deserve that.

I said I'd read that about Paul (and classyT mentioned she had heard it at a Bible class), but I didn't say I believed it.

I think it's important for Christians to know what's out there that doesn't agree with their beliefs and be able to refute it.

We are all very aware of what is out there... but it doesn't mean it needs to be spread. Like I said, that kind of thing can really screw someone up who is naïve enough to believe it. YES, the bible was written by men, but we also have to recognize who inspired it. God is NOT going to use a homosexual like that. God is NOT going to call homosexuality an abomination and then turn around and have a nice little homosexual man write most of the New Testament. The Blood of Jesus Christ is not a sin credit card and DOES NOT EXCUSE A WILLING SINFUL LIFESTYLE. I know that is "offensive" in this day and age, but quite frankly being "P.C." is what is screwing this society. When are Christians going to stand up for what the Bible actually says and not what they WANT it to say? I am in NO way preaching hatred towards homosexuals... they need to be shown love just like anybody else... but there is a call to holiness in the Christian life than is being all but forgotten by today's church.

Next how dare you assume what God can or can't use for his works

Remember a old Testement man who had sex with his daughters. A OT leader and King who sleep with someone else's wife and had them killed to have her.
Or even Paul who was a killer and murder of many early Christians.

Sorry I assumed wrong in what you believe.

Comment by HH
Sorry I assumed wrong in what you believe.

I accept your apology. Thank you for saying that.

If I offended you, I am sorry.

I never said we get away with sin with no consequences. David was SEVERALLY rebuked because of his actions. And I'm sure Paul's past haunted him until the day he died. Paul's thorn was NOT homosexuality. God's not going to say "sure, go ahead and live in sin, my grace is enough to cover that." He will work with us through our sin and meet us there to change us... but to actively live a lifestyle that way is not something He is going to bless.

I never said God CAN'T do anything... but there are some things He WON'T do. Judging from scripture, it's a fairly safe assumption.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

God's not going to say "sure, go ahead and live in sin, my grace is enough to cover that."

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I never said Paul actively lived as a homosexual. (A homosexual can be a Christian just as a Christian can be a homosexual.) In fact, I mentioned that Paul wrote that his flesh wanted him to do one thing and his mind/will another, and he struggled mightily over that. He definitely was stressed about something.

Oh, no doubt. But there are some that reference his "thorn" as dealing with that sin.

Struggling with a temptation/sin is one thing. But to actively live the lifestyle is another situation altogether. The Blood of Jesus does not give up license to do whatever we want. Sin is still sin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Struggling with a temptation/sin is one thing. But to actively live the lifestyle is another situation altogether.

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So you see there is a difference? One can be a homosexual and not live as one?

I think ALL of us have been where Paul has. Romans 7 is where I have lived most of my Christian life because I didn't get the revelation of Romans 8. I don't think Paul is unusual and I certainly don't think I am. In fact, haven't you ever been there WG... torn between what you know you should do and what you WANT to do.

Tess,
Paul specifically said his "thorn in the flesh" was given to keep him from getting too proud, so there's no reason he couldn't have had some physical ailment. Based on the last verses of Galatians, some believe he had poor vision. I can empathize with that, me and my progressive bifocals. Whatever it was, he didn't see any inconsistency between it and his gift of healing.

Based on his extensive understanding of the subject, I also firmly believe Paul was married at some point in his life. It was part and parcel of the whole Pharisee thing, so I suspect he was widowed. But he knew an awful lot about marriage for someone who had never actually been there.

Dave,

I know. I think he was married at one time because of him being involved with that certain sect of pharisee's.

I always thought it was his vision too. I just really like Joseph Prince ( Grace preacher) and he believes that Jesus did much more than save us from our sins. That he bore all of our diseases and poverty too. I want it all if it is in fact the truth.

Does it bug you when people imply that paul struggled with some personal sin. I have even heard masturbation. UGH... makes me mad. And don't you think every single christian winds up in Romans 7 at some point in their life? I do. He wasn't so strange.. it is normal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

I always thought it was his vision too.

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2nd Corinthians 12:8, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." I find it difficult to believe that a man as strong and as faithful as Paul would be so distraught as to plead with the Lord three times to have poor eyesight or a physical ailment removed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wondergirl

2nd Corinthians 12:8, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." I find it difficult to believe that a man as strong and as faithful as Paul would be so distraught as to plead with the Lord three times to have poor eyesight or a physical ailment removed.

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Maybe it was a case of really bad pink eye. They didn't have antibiotics back then. Just a thought

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

maybe it was a case of really bad pink eye. They didn't have antibiotics back then. just a thought

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Pink eye doesn't last that long, even without treatment.

Oh... well you know he was struck blind by the Lord Jesus on the road to damascus. He also mentions something about how big he has to write. It is possible it was something with his eyes.. if it was in face a physical problem. Not convinced...

If you're not a practicing one... then you aren't one. Just because someone is tempted as such... doesn't mean they have to follow it. So, NO, one can not be a homosexual unless they act on it.

Hauntin helper,

Well you know I guess I sort of agree with you on that. I really hate labels unless it is CHRISTIAN. I like that one! One of the biggest reasons that I dislike the 12 step programs is because in meetings people are constantly getting up repeating over and over that they are a drug addict, alcoholic, sex addict, whatever. NO THANK YOU. There is power in the tongue.

Very much so. You don't have to be what you're tempted to be. You are what your actions make you.

We must remember that the Lord also prayed to have his burden taken from him, but he went on for Gods will. In his flesh the Lord also did not want to endure what was ahead.

So even being strong does not mean one will not plead or pray to the Lord to have a burden taken