Please re read my posts rosemcs.
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Please re read my posts rosemcs.
It was in reference to this post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Children can be more judgemental than adults and would not necessarily be first in line. It depends on the disposition of the soul.
There are too many topics to discuss and it should become another thread now...
Jesushelper76,'
Please think about that.
To be worthy of the Eucharist a person MUST understand what it is, what it does, and what it is meant for.
While young children can understand some things a sacrament such as the Eucharist is very complex.
I know that you do not believe it when I say that everything God's Holy Church does and teaches is based on the bible, but I KNOW that it is.
I studied that long and hard for many years and I was very hard to convince.
It took bible and Catholicism experts much effort to finally show that to me.
You can believe as you wish. That's one of the things that at this moment is still free to do.
And I will believe and I know no matter what even to my death if necessary.
I left behind some family members and many friends when I became a Catholic. It was hard to do.
But the change was well worth it for I am now very happy and comfortable with my Christianity.
I hope and PRAY that you are also or will become so.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I think many Christians miss the boat on many issues.
I am very comfortble in my beliefs. I have a very strong personal relationship between Myself and God.
Well lets get the bible out point for point. I am not talking about bits and pieces but the whole bible.
Just because you studied long and hard does not make you right over me.
Does not make your beliefs better then mine. Does not mean that everything your made to believe is right. Even if you think so.
I pray that Gods wisdom will show others true love and acceptance and what it truly means within your heart and soul to have a true relationship with God. One that is not developed by what other people tell you is right, but what your heart within and the spirit that God gave you to reveal what is true love.
Catholic Church is not Gods Holy Church. No one religion or denomination is 100 percent correct.
Sorry but I have pointed out many things. In the end, it is You and God you will have to answer to.
Just like I know within my spirit and relationship with God that I know what is true for my spirit in this life.
This will be an endless topic that went way off topic but I have not judged you at all, but share my personal spirit and what I feel is wrong in the church setting.
Take care of yourself,
Joe
What is it about Catholicism that turns so many away?
That was the question. I answered it. It should not have turned into debate but not surprised that it did.
It is not a thread about defending, or standing up for certain churches. It is about exactly what the question asked.
Jesushelper76,
You are very right.
Back to the topic.
Peace and kindness,
Fted
Quote:
Originally Posted by TUT317
Are you referring to Sarah Palin or someone else?
Jesushelper76,
You are right about the toopic.
What is "The Shack" about?
Fred
Hi JudyKayTee,Quote:
Originally Posted by JudyKayTee
Sorry. I better explain this a little better. I was actually referring to Dr. C Pallen, PhD.
Joe T put up a web address a few posts back. It was under the heading of, 'Liberalism is a Sin' . I was very critical of Pallen's thesis. One of my criticisms was that Pallen didn't address the distinction between church and state adequately.I found it incredulous that in his thesis the words,"social contract" did not get a mention.
Your 'Bill of Rights' is an example of a social contract. You and everyone else is guaranteed religious freedom. Also, the government cannot start up its own religion. In fact the government's role is to actively promote staying out of religion. On the other hand, it is quite acceptable for religious organizations to be politically active.
This is roughly what I mean by separation of church and state.
Regards
Tut
TUT317,
I believe that there can be no TRUE separation of Church and state simply because human beings run the government and each one has their indivduale beliefs.
To some extent each one of those folks work, act, and vote according to their beliefs.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Hi Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Yes I agree, there is no clear cut distinction.
Regards
Tut
This is a topic for another thread Fred. Why don't you ask it?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
In my case it was Catholic Schooling and the clergy. What I found in adult life was they had taught me about religion but had not introduced me to Christ. I am very against religion but not against Christianity which is a relationship between the believer and Jesus. Catholicism has introduced a lot of side issues into Christianity and produced a highly complex religionQuote:
Originally Posted by jenjeru
The Catholic Churches all are Christ centered.
Every Mass service includes several readings from the holy bible including the gospels and the preaching is centered on the daily readings.
That's right there are services for the congregation every day of the week.
The Catholic Church promulgated the holy bible at the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for the world and uses it that way every day.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
That has to say more for the student then the master.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
JoeT
JoeT,
Well said.
Good point made.
Fred
Fred where do you get this stuff? The Catholic Church maintained it's services in Latin for centuries and prevented the Bible from being translated. They burned the Bible translators at the stake. They in fact denied access to the Scriptures for the ordinary person. You might want to say to us, they have changed but in reality they haven't.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
So Joe you don't believe in the adage if the student doesn't learn the teacher hasn't taught. What I know, Joe, is you can't impart what you don't know yourself, so if the master doesn't know Christ, the student will not either, thus the great falling away. It is not the fault of those taught in Catholic schools, it is the fault of their teachers who will be those to whom Christ will say depart from me I never knew youQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
paraclete,
It is true that in the past certain members of The Church made some mistakes just as some in all churches make mistakes today as you and I sometimes do.
The stories about what The Church did with Holy Scripture are mostly un-true.
IF The Church had wanted to only it would have the bible today for, for for many years it was the only one who printed it.
I've know for years that you are very anti-Catholic so I think that you probably won't believe me or real authentic history on that.
Be that as it may be...
Peace and kindness,
Fred
First of all, Paraclete, for many years, most of the population was illiterate, and the Catholic monks diligently transcribed the Bible as their job. They kept the Bible available for many because of the copies they made. As the people began to become more literate, and the Divine Office was continually passed down through each generation, which contains the Bible passages all throughout it, there was more of a population that were then able to read the Bible.
"St Benedict founded his monastery at Montecassino, which included among the daily tasks prescribed for the monks, the transcription of works in Latin. These monasteries founded a tradition of literate scholarship which was carried through Benedictine monasteries during the whole course of the middle ages, and was particularly significant in re-establishing Latin literacy in the early middle ages."
Monastic Scribes
So, in a great sense, the Bible was passed down because of these monks. These Catholic monks, in return, helped cultivate university--and becoming literate.
Secondly, the Mass is no longer in Latin everywhere. If one goes to a Latin Mass and feels that it should be in his own tongue, all one has to do is pick up the Missal in the pew and read the translation. The Latin language is so much richer than the English language, it is incredible. In no way does the Catholic Church want to lose or deny this jewel, even as Pope Benedict has invited the priests to bring it back to the parish if they wish.
Latin is still widely used by many people who wish to learn a foreign language, because so many languages (especially the romance languages) have their roots in it. It is a core class for the seminarian. Latin is the heart of the Catholic Church as it is for much of the world.
I invite you to study the countless Catholics who were tortured, burned, eaten by lions, shot, hung, hit by arrows, and had their head chopped off, just because they believed in God. These martyers died to preserve this faith that had been handed down to them.
Did you study the children saints when you were a child? Did the story of St. Agnes, a small girl, who refused to give up her faith to the hands of the king touch you at all? Her head was chopped off. What about the little boy, St. Tarcisius who was stoned for trying to carry Holy Communion to inmates? And 12 yr. old St. Maria Goretti, who refused to give up her virginity, and was killed at the hand of her rapist, whom she later forgave? It is not completely the teacher's responsibility to change a heart. It is knowledge, wisdom, and understanding, grace given by God, and an open heart.
Actually I don’t; how is it that the student can judge whether the master ‘doesn’t know Christ’ when still a student and didn’t know Christ himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
My early experience was nearly void of teachers and God, yet I found God’s Truth, hope, and love in the Catholic Church - on my own (well not exactly – I probably had an army of guardian angels.) I never finished high school for a verity of reasons (most of which were my own fault). Disadvantaged in my early 20’s I was still able to read the early fathers, the Bible to discern for myself Catholicism was true – it doesn’t take a great intellect. How is it that I, having no teachers, a functional illiterate found the truth in her, and you having teachers didn’t?
Needn’t find reason to blame the Catholic Church in order to turn your back on her. After all, she's just a pile of bricks isn't she? People walk away all the time, and when some have a change mind they're surprised to find the door open. It’s an attraction similar to iron caught in a strong magnetic field – once that threshold is crossed, once the iron gets too close it can’t resist the pull. When you stop spiting on her and start being just to her, soon after, you’ve arrived at that threshold, she becomes irresistible. You tell me; it just seems to me, that at some time you’ve got to run out of spittle.
JoeT
Fred very anti-catholic isn't how I would describe myself because I hold the same views about certain non-catholic organisations. How do you think it is, Fred, to find yourself deceived as a child into following a religion instead of christ. You can decieve yourself all you want but the history of the Catholic church for centuries was very murky. Today we condemn Muslims who go on jihad but in the middle ages that is exactly what catholics did, slaughtering even their fellow christians with the full sanction and blessing of the Church. You cannot white wash church history Fred and what the church leadership has done, and even still does, in white washing the vile acts of priests and clerics.' WHITED SEPTLECURES FULL OF DEAD MEN'S BONES ALL OF THEMQuote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I stand for truth Fred, I have known some very good catholic people but only a few hundred yards from my present home vile acts were perpretrated by catholic clergy. What excuse would you like to make for these Fred? People who dragged Jesus name through the mud. Were they demon possessed?
Joe any time I tried to return to the RCC I found the door closedQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
So, when are we going to hear this Truth? This sample doesn't seem to exhibit any.
Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
This would be different from most experiences. Either way, maybe it was that suitcase full of snakes like those above that scared them?
If there is a next time, maybe try pulling on the door, instead of putting your shoulder against like you're going to push the wall over. Most exterior doors open outward.
JoeT
[QUOTE=Comments on this post
rosemcs agrees : many saints were illiterate or children themselves, and yet they understood their faith
Give yours Agree Disagree *Required*
[/QUOTE]
We agree on most everything else but we disagree on this point - :)
The fact that "saints" were illiterate or children yet "understood" their faith is a compelling argument AGAINST religion, at least in my eyes.
Joe you miss the point entirelyQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
paraclete,
You SEEM to be very mixed up about Catholicism.
The Catholic faith and teachings are all the religion of Christianity.
I think you have ignored some of what rosemecs and Joe mentioned in their posts on this.
The Catholic Church is the foundation of today's Christianity and all other denominations have their basic beginning root therein.
The Church is still growing with over 1 billion members world wide and as Jesus said the gates hell will not prevail against it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred, please go back and rewrite your post to reflect your actual true beliefs. Or did you already do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
In that case I’ll leave it at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
JoeT
450donn,
I meant what I said,, Peter is the rock on which Jesus said he would build His Church and Peter was the first leader of The Church and therefore the foundation of Christianity as the bible says. The Church IS the source and foundation of the truth.
Yes all the other denominations do have roots that go back to the very first Christian Church that is a historical fact.
The point I was making about Church growth is that in spite of all the efforts today and over the centuries The Church is still strong and growing.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred, I'm not mixed up about Catholicism.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Catholicism is a religion based on Christianity. There are other expressions of Christianity which are not catholicism
Catholicism has added to Christianity taking the foundation laid by Christ and adding a lot of dogma which does not enhance the Christian experience.
The Church that is growing today is Christianity, not catholicism.
You see Fred I'm not interested in being part of a religion, but in being part of a relationship with Christ
Fred,I am going to hold your feet to the fire. Please give scripture references if you choose to "quote" or use what you propose to be quotes from the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
It has been pointed out numerous times before, Peter did NOT start any churches. He worked within the existing Jewish system. By building Jesus was making reference to his teachings being the foundation not a "church" Also when did the RCC start? Certainly not in within a few hundred years of Jesus life. So how can you continue to make such outlandish claims?
Donn he makes the claims because he has been indoctrinated by the RCC, For some reason the RCC have to believe they are the only valid expression of Christianity despite recent reforms. You find such ideas in other churches tooQuote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
And how does the RCC 'indoctrinate'?Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
What reforms? I’m unaware of any ‘reforms’ that aren’t ‘deformed’.
The 'ideas' you speak of are rooted in Christ, Scripture, Tradition, Church, Bishops, Councils, Popes, and miracles. Abandon any one of these and you’ve abandon them all. All of these focus on our love for Christ, Christ’s word and Christ’s commandments. Therefore, are you suggesting that Catholics should abandon Christ?
JoeT
OK, so you are steeped in tradition that is written by MAN! What does these mortals that you are alluding to have to do with the true, inspired word of GOD? Sounds to me like you are trying to make them gods too.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
But what of traditions of Christ? "And we charge you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw yourselves from every brother walking disorderly and not according to the tradition which they have received of us." 2Thessalonians 3:6Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
What of the Tradition that the Apostles followed? "And they were persevering in the doctrine of the apostles, and in the communication of the breaking of bread, and in prayers. Acts of the Apostles 2:42
It would seem a closer look at 'traditions' is in order.
JoeT
paraclete ,
As I said and still stand by, what the RCC teaches and stands for is all bible based.
I KNOW that, I studied it and I learned the truth about the Catholic Church.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
OH I just love it when you quote scripture totally out of context.
The passage you quoted in 2 TH is a warning against idleness
And the one in Acts is talking about the foundational content of the believers spiritual growth and maturity was the scriptures.
Yes Fred, we all understand that you have been brainwashed. But sure is fun to dispel all your thoughts all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
450donn,
OK here it is...
Matthew chapter 16, 17 And Jesus answering said to him: Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood has not revealed it to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to you: That you are Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Notice that Jesus was speaking directly to Peter and about Peter and He gave the keys to heaven to Peter which made Peter King Jesus' Prime Minister here on earth.
History and the bible tell us that Peter moved to Rome and the Church headquarters was then in Rome and has been ever since.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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