 |
Deu 22:28-29 If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
True, and is why God send HIS begotten Son to show us the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Count to whom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
The Church = NO
To their family? =
To mans law? =
To them? =
Edit: Let me add there is one judge in the end..
Alty,
It depended on their cultures. Even back in Jesus time when He met the woman at the well and told her to call her husband. She replied I don't have one. He told her that was a true statement because she has had 5 of them and the man she was with at that time wasn't her husband. I believe every culture has had a way to marry whatever the process was. I absolutely believe that a courthouse marriage is just as valid as a church marriage. In our culture today having a legal document is how we define a legal marriage. If the courts are happy with it... I believe God considers it valid.
classyT,
I do not believe that.
I do not believe that a godless marriage is in God's favor.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
What defines godless to your statement?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I recently attended a beautiful ceremony done by a Catholic notary, who was certified by state law to perform weddings. The ceremony was done with God's presences, and blessing requested, and the bride and groom wrists were joined by two braided ribbon in which both mother of the bride, and mother of the groom, had draped prior from their necks. Every prayer, scripture, and song that was heard came from the heart of both bride and groom. AND all were gathered together to witnesses what God joins from within their hearts to be one.
It is very important to understand that neither fornicators nor adulterers will
enter the kingdom of heaven,1 cor6:9-10 In today's world, the term fornication
is rarely used and immorality between unmarried people is commonly accepted as a lifestyle. But immorality, however commonplace, is a sin that will keep millions of people out of heaven, unless they repent. Paul also said this is a sin against the body.
1Cor. 6;18-20 "So run away from sexual sin. Every other sin people do is outside their bodies, but those who sin sexually sin against their own bodies. You schould know that your body is a temple for the Holy Spirit who is in you. You have received the Holy Spirit
from God. So you do not belong to yourself, because you were bought by God for a price. So honor God with your body". You should check yourself to see if you have the "Holy Spirit" in you, if you are reading
the bible, it sounds like you do not understand what it is telling you.
I pray the Lord will give you understanding of His Word.
Maggie 3
You realize that this is nearly half of the worlds population AT LEAST. That's a lot of discrimination for a God who loves us so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
Matthew 7:13&14" Enter though the narrow gate. The gate is wide and the road is wide
that leads to hell, and many people enter through that gate. 14, But the gate is small and the road is narrow that leads to true life. Only a few people find that road."
I guess it won't be crowded in heaven unless one repents before their time runs out.
Maggie 3
This is why I don't know if I even believe in God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
Quoting the bible does NOTHING for me.
PEOPLE wrote it. And PEOPLE change it.
Bet it feels good knowing that there's "more room for you"
I don't think heaven can even BE crowded, it's supposed to be infinite.
To each their own.
I choose to believe in God, He gave me an
Offer I could not refuse.
Maggie 3
sndbay,
What you described was not a Godless marriage to my way of thinking.
God was invited to be present there.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
From what scripture says we are to obey the laws of our governement, which would include obtaining a marriage licence for legel permission. Would God count the marriage or joining of two by this legel process, the answer would be yes.
What you are saying in a godless ceremony or marriage has more to do with the individual's belief then whether the marraige counts. The marriages does count but their lives are absence from hope of salvation without God in their lives.
Do you see a difference? We can't discern the marriage as wrong when it follows the law of governement. What is in discernment is their belief not to include God in their lives and at the wedding.
I respect your beliefs, I really do, but keep in mind that the bible was written a very long time ago, a very different time then today.
How can you hope to follow the rules of that time when it has no basis on present day circumstances?
Back then they had slaves, we don't now. Back then, if your were pregnant and not married you were stoned to death, not now. The living conditions, the way they treated women, slaves, everything has changed.
How can you take the preachings of a book that is 1000's of years old and apply it to life now?
Because no matter what life was then or what life is today, it's not the best that is possible.. There is a better life.. a perfect life ahead.. A life that Our Father the Creator of the world prepared for us from the foundation of the world. The Word of God is the promise of all that Our Father has given us, what we need in FAITH to obtain HIS hope for us to inherit the Kingdom of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Without the hope given in forgiveness, without the love of God, and without eternal life, How would we have any hope for that better life or eternal life?
That's were our beliefs differ. I don't believe in a God that intervenes with the humans or the earth that he created. I do believe that God had a hand in creating this world, but then he walked away, left us to our own devices.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
I also don't believe that the bible is the word of God, it was written by men that claimed that God spoke to them. If someone did that today they'd be locked up in an Asylum.
I don't hope for a better life after this one. I hope for a great life now, while I'm alive and able to enjoy it. I don't think God would put us here to prove something to him. I don't see how the God of the bible, the loving God you all believe in, could make his creations suffer as much as he does. That's why I'm a Deist.
I also have to point out that your God, the God of the bible, is supposed to be a very forgiving God, so wouldn't he forgive someone that had sex before marriage?
This is why organized religion is not for me, because it makes no sense.
ohsohappy, & Altenweg
Time does change, but God amd His Word does no change. That's why we can depend
On Him. Phil. 2:19 & 11 "So that every knee will bow to the name of Jesus--
everone in heaven, on earth, and under the earth. 11 And everyone will confess that
Jesus Christ is Lord and bring glory to God the Father."
Maggie 3
That's why you can "depend on him" because you believe in the bible. I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
That's neither here nor there though, seeing as that's not the question the OP asked.
Surely you do have to take into consideration that 2009 is very far removed from the time of the bible.
There are writings in the bible about punishing a slave. Should we adhere to those writings as well? Wouldn't it be hard, seeing as there are no longer slaves?
I have at least 10 friends and a whole lost of relatives that would have been stoned to death, because of the bible.
Either you follow it to the letter or you make allowances. I think that sex before marriage is not clearly defined in the bible, also, the times back then were very different. The year, the people, the way we live, that has to be taken into consideration.
You wouldn't follow the advice of a book written in the 1950's because those concerns, the things they wrote about, no longer apply to our lives in 2009. Same thing with the bible. In my opinion.
I don't know the book, chapter and verse but somewhere it says in the KJ version "That if a man deflowers a virgin let him mary her"
My view is if two people in love and that are going to spend their lives together then they are already married.
letmetellu,
Perhaps so, but not legally.
Fred
But the OP isn't talking about legal marriage, she's talking about spiritual marriage, the joining of two people that love each other and know that they'll be spending the rest of their lives together.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
No, there is no legal document saying that they're married.
I thought this was about spirituality, belief, God. God doesn't enter into legalities, or does he?
Altenweg,
Well... that depends on how you look at it.
Perhaps I should have said licit.
I believe that in God's eyes a marriage that does not include Him spiritually is illicit.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I agree. Also with Altenweg.Quote:
Originally Posted by letmetellu
I think there needs to be flexibility with God's word, because we do live in completely different times. I think there are specific, all-encompassing messages in the Bible that cross cultures and time frames, and those are the things we need to focus on as Christians. Loving God with every part of us, loving others with every part of us, and being the people God made us to be.
I believe that as long as we operate in love, truth, compassion, and wisdom, we are following the right path. As long as we know Jesus and His great sacrifice for us, and we try to mirror that great love in our own lives, I think we are getting it right.
I honestly believe that the tendency of Christians to get caught up in legalities and rules and who's right and who's wrong, and which denomination is OK and which is misled, causes many people to be turned off completely to God and causes us to miss what life is really all about: Loving others. Jesus didn't walk around spouting rules and regulations. He walked around healing the sick, feeding and loving the poor in material and spirit. He walked around giving hope and joy to those who didn't have any.
That is my goal in life.
And I continue to seek God everyday, and seek His good for my life.
As far as sex before marriage, and homosexuality, and drug/sex/alchohol addictions, and prostitutes, and the hopeless and aimless, I am choosing Jesus' way, the way of loving all and respecting all. And making the choices in my life that reflect that.
Ashriel,
So me what God says is iron clad.
If He says fornication is a sin (as he does say it) then it is a sin.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Sorry about the incomplete greenie, I was trying to do it from my iPod, didn't work so wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
Anyway what I was trying to say is that I agree completely. Especially about the part where you saidThis is what turns me off the most. I get this impression that either I do things the way that these religions say that I have to (which most interpret differently anyway) Or I "go to hell" Pretty sure that's not the way God runs things. I think it's the way people try to run things to make others conform to their exact beliefs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
If God didn't want diversity in the world, then why would he create it?
If God discriminated against Homosexuality, then WHY would people be BORN homosexual? Why would God make someone that way just to deny them his Kingdom? Would a kind and loving God do that? I don't believe so.
Sure it can be argued that "God created Diversity so that we can find our way to the right path on our own" but I think that's a load of BS.
I think that God created Diversity in beliefs and religion and opinion so that we can learn from one another and be able to believe or practice in whichever way is best for us. He gave us the choice of HOW to worship and believe.
He also gave us Free will, and by doing that, means that he KNOWS that people won't always do what's considered "good" NOBODY ALWAYS DOES THE RIGHT THING. Everyone has screwed up in one way or another.
I believe that if we really truly live with love in our hearts and try to make the world a better place, then God will forgive us of such Trivial things. That's why he sent Jesus in the first place right?
You can't tell me that He sent his Only son to die for us, so that we will be forgiven of our sins, just so he can send us to hell, or deny us Heaven.
Kind of a Double standard Don't you think.
OhsoHappy,
Unfortunately God is NOT the author of confusion so he didn't create diversity in beliefs or sin. It is what it is. I don't mean to be unkind. I know what you mean or what you are trying to say. It is just that the Bible teaches otherwise. The Bible says There is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. ( spirtual death)
I won't tell you that The Father sent his son so die for us just so he could deny us heaven. BUT I will tell you what the Bible says... If thou shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead... you will be saved. ( you are NOT denied heaven)
I am a sinner saved by the blood of the Lord Jesus and not to continue IN sin but to be convicted and repent when I do. I still sin sometimes. It is a truth for everyone... and the Bible asks this question to everyone... What will YOU do with the Christ? It is a choice to go to heaven or hell. No double standard at all... :)
ohsohappy,
The way we are born is the result of the consequenses of this world as are earthquakes, volcanoes, monster storms and such.
Contrary to what some believe they are not acts of God.
I understand what is being said about different denomination beliefs.
In my case I tell no one that they are going to hell for I really don't know for sure who is going where and neither does anyone else.
That is the job of God ONLY.
So I think it is very wrong for anyone to say so and so is damned.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred,
That is true... we are not the judge of someone's heart. Only the Lord knows.
classyT,
Thanks,
Fred
I would add that God's Word has shown us the division between right and wrong. It was shown from the beginning by what Adam and Eve accepted from satan. And the actions of man continue to example what is written of the human man. Watch all actions to see right or wrong.
God does permit man's delusion in the liberty to choose and that liberty includes ignoring HIS presence and HIS helping hand if you choose. However God is surely there for the asking if the heart wants it. AND the prince of this earth, satan, is there to do his evil temptations.
~in Christ
Ash,
A verse in 1 corinthians 6:18
Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body.
I believe you said your Bible didn't actually say fornication. So I used a version like your Bible... it is still done against your own body. God hasn't changed his standard.
The Lord Jesus (the Bible records) is the SAME yesterday, today and forever.
Certainly appears in the light of what Christ has offered, and not of darkness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
AgreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
I would have to say Jesus did give to some parables in teaching, as well as everything you have mentioned. (Mark 2:4 And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
Luke 8:10 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
I think people forget that Christ HIMSELF washed the feet of HIS disciples for a huge example.
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
A great choice..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashriel
1 Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps
His image and steps are righteousness
2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of HIM in peace, without spot, and blameless.
sndbay,
I also agree much with what Ashriel posted.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
The Bible is a fantastic work of myth and fiction that was written by multiple authors to try and put their own spin on things.
God is the only one that can judge you, his so called "disciples" have nothing to do with your relationship with God or your choices. We were given free will for a reason, it is Man that puts boundaries on us.
CraftyD,
That is your opinion and perhaps what you believe but I disagree 100%.
I and about 2 billion others believe that the bible is the inspired word of God.
There is much evidence that it is the inspired word of God.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Crafty,
If you understood just how RIGHT on the bible is concerning prophecy... you'd be a little embarrassed. It is true that men actually wrote the Bible, but when you study it... you begin to realize... ain't NO way it isn't God's written word. No book could predict what it has and have it come to pass 100 percent. The odds against it happening are staggering. And then of course there is the JEW! The prophecies about that race alone are amazing. What other country became a nation in a day? ( after 2000 years of not having one) all that and more the Bible foretold and it happened to a T!
BUT... and it is a big deal to God... Without FAITH IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PLEASE HIM BECAUSE HE THAT COMES TO THE LORD MUST BELIEVE THAT HE IS AND IS A REWARDER OF THEM THAT DILEGENTLY SEEK HIM.
So even if I could somehow PROVE to you how accurate the Bible is... it takes faith to believe. Heck, the Lord Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead and many jews stood and watched. MOST left unbelieving... it is ALL about faith.
ohsohappy,
Of all the miracles the Lord has done... the virgin birth appears in MY mind to be very believable. I mean he parted the Red Sea and millions of hebrews walked across to the other side... the bible records NONE of them were lost. The Lord aloud a donkey to talk for heaven sakes... stopped time, turned regular water to wine and sent a perfect food called mana down from heaven to feed the Hebrew children in the wilderness... NOT to mention creating the earth and mankind and throwing the stars in the sky kind of like an after thought. Believing the virgin birth and Jesus walking on a water hard to swallow?. please that is KID STUFF. Lol Again, it takes faith and I believe EVERY single word of the Bible! :)
I have to ask. If God is so involved in our every day lives, cares so much, where are the miracles now?
So many magnificent miracles in the bible, but then poof, it all stops.
Why?
Out of greens but a question that begs for an answer to be sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altenweg
Alty,
He does still perform them. I have seen and heard about pastors and people praying over someone who has cancer and have been told they have less than 6 months and then because of prayer they have been healed. So individually or as the body of Christ.. it does happen.
BUT:
Here is the thing, the Lord isn't dealing with the Jewish nation right now because they rejected him. ( he deals with all of us, Jews, and Gentiles individually... but I'm speaking of as a nation).. but after this "Grace Period" or the Church period is over, God will again start dealing with the nation of Israel again. There will be all kinds of miracles during the tribulation. AND never forget that the Jews had no land for over 2000 years... because of rebellion, because they rejected the messiah but the Bible predicted they would become a nation again. And they did.. May 14, 1948 a nation born in a day... another prediction, another miracle. ALSO you should read how Israel was able to protect their land and win the 6 day war in the 60's. WOW was the war EVER fixed! Miracle after miracle. You should read some of the accounts written by men who aren't even Christians! Yes, God is still in the miracle business!
The bottom line is this.The Bible was written by men as a book of law to control people.
Does it have valuable and wonderful lessons ,yes!
God knows your thoughts,I have a strong faith but my faith tells me I am not a sinner because I am with a man I have loved for 12 years and we make love without the benefit of a piece of paper.
We had a commitment ceremony and that was all we needed.
We were out at a tree and we made our vows.Sinners?
I am a sinner but not because of the love I have for my man and my choice in expressing it.
God brought us together.
Just my thoughts.
artlady,
I'm glad you found love. I REALLY mean that. Some people have been married for YEARS and are not loved or in love. Please know I'm not judging you... not at all. But I don't think the Bible is trying to control anyone though. In fact, it actually teaches that we are fallen sinful humans and that natured we are born with can't be controlled or can't be cleaned up even.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:09 PM. |