JoeQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
The living soul is the outcome of soil and the Breath of Life which in Hebrew is Rouach.The same word (Rouach)is used for The Spirit of God.
So, soil+Rouach=Living soul.
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JoeQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
The living soul is the outcome of soil and the Breath of Life which in Hebrew is Rouach.The same word (Rouach)is used for The Spirit of God.
So, soil+Rouach=Living soul.
Adam,
Yes Rouach is Hebrew for spirit often used as the spirit of God.
What I find to be interesting is that it is a female word.
Think about that in relation to the Holy Spirit over shadowing Mary like a matron.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Yes Fred , it is interesting!
Here is what I believe the Bible teaches... we are sealed with the Holy Spirit after we believed and accepted Christ as our Savior. SEALED with the HOLY SPIRIT!!
The Holy Spirit ( or the new nature) cannot sin because the Holy spirit is part of the trinity and therefore GOD! From what I can read, and understand from the scripture... HE ( the Holy Spirit can be grieved or saddened AND he can be quenched) Which does Imply that OUR OLD nature... fleshy nature, the one we are ALL born into this world with CAN cause the Holy Spirit to be greived and quenched by our actions, thoughts and deeds.
Once we are saved or born again with our NEW nature we are to yield to Him and produce the fruit of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, faithfulness, gentleness and self control. BUT we must DAILY die to our old nature in order to live pleasing to the Lord.It isn't always as easy as it sounds. Dying to your own fleshy, sinful wants IS HARD but it IS also possible. And THIS is what is so cool about living this side of the cross. It is ONLY POSSIBLE because of the Holy Spirit who lives within us. Before the cross, the Holy Spirit did NOT dwell within the people of faith. Oh sometimes the Holy Spirit came UPON them but that is NOT the same. SO... This is how God the Father can look at ME as totally righteous and justified. Not because I did anything to deserve it but because JESUS did. So POSITIONALLY, I stand PERFECT before the Lord.
NOW, does this mean I do NOT sin any longer? NO IT DOES NOT!. I DO sin (NOT my new nature for the Holy Spirit is unable to sn)... my OLD nature does. AND when we sin, we confess it to the Father who is faithful and just to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
The reason I confess my sin to the Lord Jesus is so I can fellowship with him.. without something between us. ( you know how is is when you have a argument with your spouse and you don't deal with it? BUT there is something between you and your spouse or whoever you sinned against. Until you talk it over... the relationship is strained.) Therefore, I confess my sins to the LORD NOT so I can be saved because He dealt with my sinful flesh on the cross... ONCE and forever. I confess for a relationship with HIM.
Therefore as a Christian I DO have the Holy spirit indwelling me AND I have my old nature that I SHOULD die to daily. Until we no longer have this old nature we will not be PERFECT in our acts, deeds and thoughts. AND sometimes I am chastened by the Father for it if I won't repent. Spirtually however, I am Perfect in the eyes of the Lord because I have accepted His son and my Savior.
Does this make sense? I hope it does. I think it is wrong when christian think or say we are perfect right now.. as if we can no longer sin. Perfection and HOLINESS is ALWAYS the Lord Jesus standard... how could he ever say be less than that?? But if we could do that on our own, he wouldn't have had to die for us.
Sndbay... after saying all that I will now answer this question below that you asked.
We have been delivered and redeemed to be similar to the image of HIS Son? Then who can sin or be a sinner?
K? You ready for the answer... who can sin or be a sinner... ME! And I'm in good company because I can boldy say The APOSTLE PAUL and the twelve while they walked on this earth. Therefore I conclude, Anyone who calls on the name of the Lord Jesus, is sealed with his Spirit but still in this OLD body and still has their flesh nature CAN sin and can be called a sinner.
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Perhaps it is to big of a cross to bear for some, and the might be destroyed is shown by failure to do as God wills. All are sinner, and all have been called.
ClassyT this is the Word of God speaking of the example REFER:Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara's womb:
Now dead of his body but not the dead of Sara womb that was unable...
20 thr 25 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God; And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
The explanation does continue into Romans 5, and verse 5:8 says REFER: But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Did that verse somehow show us as sinner before Christ died. ONE Faith and ONE Lord, and the One Baptism is really the LAW of Faith we can boast about.
We received the atonement from Christ, and 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
God does forbid sin, and these verses go on and on.. 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
~walk in the spirit
classyT,
Are you saying that you are 2 nature persons in one?
That is a person with an old mature and one with a new nature all living in the same bosy mind and spirit?
That is confusing to me.
I believe that once a person accepts Jesus as the Lord and Savior and does as He instructs then that person has changed, but still remains imperfect because of sinning.
OK What has change?
That person's attitude, belief, life style, and character changes but he/she is still the same person with the same genes and name.
Fred,
I have the Holy Spirit indwelling me... that new spirit or nature can't sin. BUT the Lord didn't just take away my old sinful nature when I became saved. I have to reckon it dead. It is an act of MY will. Having the Holy Spirit is what gives me POWER over sin and my sin nature. I don't HAVE to sin. That is important to understand. Unfortunately I do sometimes.
Yes, I have an old nature and a new nature and it is in a constant battle... same as the Apostle Paul wrote about in Romans 7. What he WANTED to do... he didn't... what he didn't want to do, he did!! There is that battle going on in us... but Romans 8 gives us the remedy for the battle... the Lord Jesus! He delivers us from that battle.
OH! I agree there has been a change in any true believer... we just didn't get that sin nature out of us! I have had wicked thougts before.. now those thoughts didn't come for the Holy Spirit.. they came from my old sin nature. I have sinful desires, sometimes I'm selfish, or grumpy, or ungrateful. That is because I have a sin nature. Notice that Jesus was NEVER grumpy, quick tempered, selfish, ungrateful .because he never had that sin nature. Do I make sense to you at all? I'm not sure I am explaining it well.
Sndbay,
The Lord Jesus' standard is GO AND SIN NO MORE... period. I agree with every verse that says we are NOT to sin. But... WE DO! (sometimes) WHY? Because we still have that sin nature that WANTS to sin... loves sin. My new nature doesn't want to! IT CAN'T sin because He is the HOLY SPIRIT and He wants only to do the Father's will. So anytime a born again Christian sins... you can REST assured it was NOT the Holy Spirit that indwells them. It was their flesh or sin nature. THAT is why Paul said to reckon it dead. AND why he had to it everyDAY. We are told to do the same.
One last thing... that old man WAS crucified on the cross ( Spirtually )like Paul said... but IT HAS TO CONTINUE to be crucified daily. Oh it wants to live let me tell you... least mine does and SURELY I am not the only one that has to die to my will everyday. Am I?
If you read the verse in context it means when we didn't deserve it he showed his love by dying for mankind. THAT verse is about HIS PERFECT love for us. It isn't about us NOT being able to sin after salvation.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
1 Timothy 1:15
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief
now notice Paul didn't say I WAS chief but I don't sin anymore. He was a sinner saved by grace..
I don't believe he went around trying to sin, he said he had to die daily. Now why did he have to do that? Because if he didn't... his flesh would surely get in the way. He said if we walked in the spirit ( the Holy Spirit we were sealed with ) we would fulfill the lust of the flesh or the old man.
You quoted his verses on sin and grace. Where sin abounds.. grace does MUCH MORE abound. What does that mean.. It means where there is sin... there is MORE grace! Then he goes on to say does it mean you can continue to sin? NO! But he didn't say it was impossible to do so... he said we shouldn't. Our NEW nature CANNOT sin.. it is impossible but our flesh can and does and when we do sin... we repent, confess it and move on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
The name of a person signifies only one person which distinguishes it from all other people. Each person is endowed with one body animated by one and only one immortal soul. ClassyT has two natures, old and new? Which do we address? This is important - it makes me nervous - who has been submitting posts to AMHD, the old or the new ClassyT? So, when ClassyT-old addresses ClassT-new does the soul of the new animate the body of the old to speak, or vice versa?
If there were an old me and a new me, can I get a new me that's skinny?
I'm sorry couldn't help it. The idea of multiple me's seemed both hilarious and terrifying at the same time. I have a hard enough time keeping one of me in line. There is only one you, just as there is only one me. And when that one sins, it is a willful and voluntary act of disobedience to God by that individual. We can only blame ourselves for that sin, not the 'old-me,' or the 'new-me', or for that matter the 'other-me'.
JoeT
Joe,
Again I must agree with you.
There is only one me, you, her, him etc.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
classyT, I would have given you a greenie if only I could!
I'm with you and so does Paul!
Romans 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 7:24 O wretched man that I am! Who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Joe,
Obviously I'm not explaining myself well. There is only one me and if I suggested otherwise then it was a misunderstanding. I did NOT get rid of my sin nature when I accepted Christ. It can't be fixed, or cleaned up.. it must be reckoned dead. The Holy Spirit doesn't and cannot sin. So if I sin, it isn't the Holy Spirit that lives in me... and JOE just for the record... I ONLY blame myself IF I sin.
Thanks ADAM! Whoo hoo! I started to think I was all alone here. This is Christianity 101!Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
adam,
Thanks for posting that.
It made me think it all over again.
In my heart and soul I do not want to sin and I do not but my flesh is weak and it does.
I am still but one person but my faith changes my attitudes for the better.
I'm beginning to understand where classyT is coming from.
Pace and kindness brother,
Fred
I admire you so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Teach us more of what you got 'cause what you got comes from above!
Wherever you are , you will never be alone!Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Who sold us to sin?
Let me pin point one fact, and it is written in the scripture that was posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Were we SET FREE, and given the Law of Liberty?
Who did deliver us?
7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Do you see the recap of what is being told. God ordained the Law from the beginning, and did man attempt to follow the law of sin. The Law did not fail them (7:22), but they fail because they were sold to sin (first ADAM) 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Walk in the Spirit
Romans 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Not in the Spirit
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
Who do you follow?
Col 2:6-7-8 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
sndbay!
Dear sister!
I can see what is in your mind but I cannot see what is in your heart that causes you to think and express the way you do.
Please tell me what is troubling you.
Fred...Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I am only ONE person too. I'm talking about my flesh being weak and the HOly Spirit who lives within me is HOLY. I live with both. I'm not crazy... ( well maybe a little but that has NOTHING to do with what we are talking about) :D
I'm glad Adam could explain it better than I could! :)
JOeT,Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
Good thing I like you so much! Or I'd have to come through this computer and smack you a couple of times upside the head. ( THAT was my flesh talking... hee hee):D
Many people find me hilarious and terrifying at the same time, it is part of my "charm'. ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam7gur
What we have been given is a new nature. The "Old Man" as it is written in (Romans 6:6).. What about him?" The Old Man" was crucified with Christ. We are told he "is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts" (Eph. 4:22).
"The Old Man" is full of desires or lusts. These lusts are deceitful and deceiving. They are in all things contrary to God, contrary to His Spirit, and His Word compared to the new nature, the spirit, when it is once implanted within us. In this connection, it is called to salvation.
"The Outward Man"; as being that which is seen, and that which actually perishes (2 Cor. 4:16), and this is "day by day". This tells us that as long as we are in the flesh, we must suffer this "burden": and that no ordinance connected with that which perishes, can be of any avail in that domain where all is, and must be spiritual; of the Spirit.
"The Heart" the natural heart, which is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9), so deceitful that it constantly deceives and betrays us: so deceitful that none but God can really know it. The Lord Jesus has some "teaching about the heart" of the natural man in Matthew 15:19. "Out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies."
"The Carnal Mind." This aspect of the old nature is even more serious than the others. They relate rather to acts, and conditions, and character; but this relates to thoughts; to the mental activities, and reasonings and imaginations of the natural man (Rom. 8:7).
"Every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Gen. 6:5).
(Rom. 8:7, 8) that this "mind of the flesh" is "Enmity against God." "Not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." And "cannot please God."
"That which is born (or, begotten) of the flesh is flesh"
POINT IN FACT: They are born of the flesh. Only "that which is born (or, begotten) of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:6).
"Whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever" (Eccl. 3:14)
"Every plant which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up" (Matt. 15:13).
POINT OF FACT:
"He That Soweth To His Flesh Shall Of The Flesh Reap Corruption" (Gal. 6:8). All efforts to improve the flesh, all provision made for the flesh, all ordinances connected with the flesh, all end in corruption and death: all "perish with the using" (Col. 2:22).
The New Man (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10). This is opposite to "the old man". This New Man, being entirely in the likenss of Christ, is called "a new creation" (2 Cor. 5:17; Gal. 6:15). And "according to the image/righteousness of HIM that created him" (Col. 3:10).
"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation" (Gal. 4:15; Co1. 3:10, 11). So can we acknowledge that in this connection the new nature is called to salvation? YES
"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!
We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God (5:19)
Remember Apostle Paul saying (and all who have like precious faith) to cry out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death" "I thank God, He will deliver me through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 7:24). REJOICE!!!
The Mind (Rom. 7:23, 25). The word here used for "the mind" is nous meaning the new nature. This "mind" serves the law of God (Rom. 7:25) This is the Law of Faith in ONE LORD ONE FAITH ONE BAPTISM (Eph 4:4-5)
And all this because God has created within us a new nature, which He calls pneuma-Christou. However, here on earth, it is our privilege to share His rejection. "The world knoweth us not because it knew Him not" (1 John 3:1).
1 Peter 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
Point of Fact
If anyone desires the darkness of the oldman, it is their free will to follow darkness.
Yes ClassyT, you have detailed the Inward Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
"The Inward Man" (Rom. 7:22; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 3:16). This is the opposite of "the outward man" which perishes day by day, while this "inward man is renewed day by day" REJOICE!!!
We are being nourished and replenished day by day with grace and strength by the Holy Spirit; so that Christ can dwells in the heart by faith [Eph. 3:16) We learn something of His love which passeth knowledge, and are filled with all the fulness of God
Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Eph 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
This one person of mind, body and spirit does try to walk in the spirit of Christ.
If I could I also would heal the sick and give sight to the blind.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
By the hand of God, YES, I believe your heart of love would Fred. May God bless you, and may you be all He created you to be my brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Gal.5:16 -26, Spirit and Human Nature
16, So I tell you; Live by following the Spirit. Then you will not do what your sinful
Self want. 17 Our sinful selves want what is against the Spirit , and the Spirit
Wants what is against our sinful selves. The two are against each other, so you cannot
Do just what you please. 18 But if the Spirit is leading you, you are not under the law.
19 The wrong things the sinful self does are clear: being sexually unfaithful, not being pure,
Taking part in sexual sin, 20 worshiping gods, doing witchcraft, hating, making trouble, being jealous, being angry with each other, causing division among people,
21, feeling envy, being drink, having wild and wasteful parties, and doing other things like these. I warn you now as I have warned you before: Those who do these things will not
Inherit God's Kingdom. 22 But the Spirit produces the fruit of love , joy, peace, patience,
Kindness, self-control. There is no law that says these things are wrong. 24 Those
Who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified their old sinful selves. They have given up their old selfish feelings and evil things they wanted to do. We get our new life from
The Spirit, so we should follow the Spirit. 26 We must not be proud or make trouble with
Each other or be jealous of each other.
Love and Blessings, Maggie 3
Heart of Love
1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Walk in the Spirit
1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1 John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Don't be doubleminded, and fool yourself
Gal 6:7-8 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Parable spoken by Christ
Luke 5:36-37-39 And he spake also a parable unto them; No man putteth a piece of a new garment upon an old; if otherwise, then both the new maketh a rent, and the piece that was taken out of the new agreeth not with the old. And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish.But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.
Is this the heart of the old nature
Luke 5:40 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
To all here.
This has been an enlightening subject.
Thank you all for participating.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
If you take all of what was spoke on this thread and apply it to the thread of Baptism it makes a complete circle of love send by God.
Every baptism in scripture is done of water. Whether you are led to water by John the Baptist, or led by the disciples, all were bapized by the spirit of God, and water. ( and eventually that was shown of the early day baptism) Acts 1:5- 11:16
That is exactly why I trust that man can led you to water of baptism or preach baptism of the Holy Spirit, HOWEVER it take no hands of man to baptize of the Holy Spirit..
Let me example this another way,
The church priest leds the infant or adult to baptize them with water, so they were led to the water of baptism. It is only by the hand of God, known as the spirit of God, that baptizes with the Holy Spirit. The scripture in Acts have exampled that, by the word of our Lord. The Holy Spirit would be given by the hand of God.
I believe the spirit of God does manifest the revealed truth within the infant or adult when God Wills. And the Holy Spirit is not given until the confessed belief of the begotten Son, Jesus Christ .(surrender by their will and it is NOT the hands of man that forced you under water, but rather your will to submerge and be baptized)
That is also why I believe infants should be dedicated to God as infants, and led to water of baptism at an older age.. when the reveal truth and quicken spirit by the Holy Spirit can offer the newness of life, and putting a cap on the old nature or outward man.
The intention of the church is good, but God is patient to manifest forbearance in accordance to HIS Will.
This confirms was why Peter said the Gentiles who received the Holy Spirit must still be baptized of water..
************
What I believe is that Our Father in Heaven sent HIS begotten Son.(the soul of who Christ was). And Christ Jesus was born of blood and water. The blood of man that walked this earth was born of HIS mother Mary, and the spiritual body that He was was born of water the Holy Spirit. As a flesh man, Christ walked the same path that we are to walk doing the Will of the Father. As the Son of God given to die for our sin, Christ was raised to sits on the right hand of the Father.
Acts 2:32-33 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For us to follow Christ
Matthew 20:3 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
May God reveal the spirtual body of awareness
John 7:38-39 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
We had no hope of the Holy Spirit until Christ gave up the Spirit on the cross from His flesh body.
1 Corinthains 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Understand that is how by the baptism of the Holy Spirit, that our Inward Bodies can be renewed daily.
Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man
2 Corinthians 4:16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man
May the Spirit rest within ~in Christ
sndbay,
So the baby jumps into the water by himself. Eh?
I sincerely doubt that.
So the Holy Spirit speaks out and says I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, eh?
I also doubt that.
Yes the Holy Sirit is involved but so are the men who perform the ceremony as Jesus commanded.
The Holy Spirit abides with those who are baptized properly.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
What Baby?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Edit:Add
I think u are making the point that I have stated. (Children might be able to come, and be baptism because they wanted to do so) However a baby can't walk or talk. (So who's will is it being suffered to righteousness, in being begotten again, or born again) A baby at birth is holy according to scripture, and today we are NOT in bondage to sin, so the baby is sinless to further it's walk to learn, and decide on it's own free will and Liberty of Faith.
Fred I was baptized at one month old by the Lutheran denomination, and my parents hearts wanted me to follow Christ. When I was older my heart wondered whyy God made me a person, and why couldn't I have been an angel. It was a child's question to God.
From that day on I wanted to understand more about the word of God, and got up early in mornings to read and talk my thoughts over with God. There were many reproves and I believe God was always there to help me. My heart wanted my body swipe clear like scripture said, and it is true that satan will come and try to turn you back from following God!!
My heart became sad and felt helpless to what was happening. God is always there if we listen, and my heart knew it and surrendered wanting nothing more then Christ. Wanting HIS Ways to be what I followed. My spiritual birth became a reality, and I followed my heart to be baptized of water fully submerged. I now look to never sin again, and the ability to stand still and hear my heart of love in Christ. Christ dwells in me, and it is a spiritual world of love. My once to die was my suffered/yielded choice in baptism because our LORD is of the living. I wait for the coming of the LORD
(Hebrews 9: 27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.)
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The very act of baptism is the Spirit + Water + Blood = ONEQuote:
Originally Posted by arcura
( 1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth)
( I John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one)
You are saying that the Holy Spirit (puts up with/abides) what man's hands and mouth say and do?Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I believe it is a command from Christ that said go baptisming. It is the pastors and priests who abide in what Christ commanded.
The Holy Spirit was given unto the Gentiles by God, and Peter then abided by the command of Christ to say they would be baptized of water. (Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? ) NO we can't forbid it because Christ commanded it.. We must abide by what Christ did and said.
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
sndbay,
The point I was trying to make is that God sometimes uses His followers to do God's work.
Men are commanded to do the ceremony of baptizing and thus the Spirit and water are also involved.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
The laying of hands is what you are speaking of as it is a gift given to those chosen by GodQuote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Act 19:5-6 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Remember this too, because Peter told how wrong the heart could be to think otherwise.
Act 19:11 And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul
The laying of hands is truely a gift of God, coming from God. It can not be purchsed or gained by any other source then the power of God. Peter told of this in (Act 8:19-21)And all having a gift from God should not neglect to use the gift. (1 Timothy 4:13-16)
However none can take this honour and attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen.
Hebrews 5:4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron.
Christ showed us this to be true, because He too was the begotten Son of God
Hebrews 5:5-6 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
So look at it like this.. Your Father sends you something special, and HE gives it to UPS to hand it to you. (Who do you thank and give great appreciation to for giving you this special package?)
~in Christ
sndbay,
No I was not speaking of the laying on of hands.
I was speaking of the person who performs the baptism ceremony as John the Baptizer did.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Fred, John the Baptist is known as a great prophet.
Like Paul has written in (Galatians 2:8), whether the apostleship for Peter or himself, it is God that wrought effectually in them both.
The same would be true in John the Baptist as the great prophet. And the same would be true of every one, evangelists, pastors and teachers. (Eph 4:11-14)
Eph 3:7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of HIS power
1 Peter 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.
However none can take this honour and then attribute it to themselves, because as (Act 19:11) said, God wrought special miracles by the hands of those chosen. Those good stewards are the servants honoured to do what God has spoken and what God has given to them, to hand to us.
EPH 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
EPH 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
EPH 4:11-13 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ
Fred, if you believe something different, then please tell me where it is written and what the difference is?
Love
`in Christ
I don't get it? We are given a picture of a PHYSICAL baptism. John baptized JESUS CHRIST... physically. When the Lord Jesus commanded us to baptize one another... he meant physically. Therefore it takes another human being to baptize another. I mean to make this something else.. I don't understand?? NO PERSON can baptize themselves. It just isn't possible. It isn't BIBLICAL!! You can walk into a body of water and go under, but I suggest you are simply SWIMMING. Or taking a bath!! It isn't a biblical baptism accoording to the Bible.
Baptism is done this way so that OTHERS can witness your confession of what Christ did on the cross and that you WANT to die to self and live for him. It is a physical and Outward expression of a inward change that has ALREADY taken place. BEFORE the baptism!!
Eph 1:11-14 tells us... we hear the gospel, we believe the gospel and then we are SEALED with the Holy Spirit. BAPTISM is NOT a requirement. To ADD baptism is ADDING something to Paul's Gospel and we are warned AGAINST such a thing in Galatians. CHRIST FINISHED THE WORK... It is DONE... all there is left is accepting his WORK as enough. It is ENOUGH for me.
my my how we complicate the Gospel and take verses out of context, misunderstand who is writing, why it was written and who it is directly written too! GUYS... it is called rightly dividing the word of truth.
ClassyT, Who reveals unto us the wisdom of truth? Who permits some to see, and some to be blind?
Eph 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling
One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
SO That: the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him (Eph 1:17)
ClassyT who is HIS glory? Who first trusted in Christ?
That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (It says sealed with That holy Spirit of Promise!)
(Which is?)
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
ClassyT, How are we begotten again rather then begotten of man by flesh?
The seal of God in our forehead is the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ!!! who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ
Heavenly places is the spiritual realm of heaven.So that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.
How can you be holy without being born again, (or) known as begotten again in Christ?
You must die with Christ on the cross, buried with Christ, in baptism!!
So that we can once die, and then be born again. Begotten again in Christ Jesus. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will.
~child of God
sndbay,
I KNOW THAT!!
So what! John the Baptizer, a man, baptized Jesus.
It takes another person to perform the physical ceremony of baptism of one is to be performed; always did, and always will be.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
That is saying they are baptized in the name of John.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
1 Corinthians 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
It is exactly why Paul chose not to baptize but a few, because people might say it was Paul who baptized them.( 1 Corinthians 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. )
Matthew 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
sndbay, NO!
Thaey are baptized my a person in the name of the Father, So, and Holy Sprit if done properly as Jesus instructed.
You know that I think.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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