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Originally Posted by cadillac59

You are right, I have been hurt by Christianity, and that's because all religion always hurts everyone at some level or another. As a gay man, yeah, I've been hurt by Christianity that rejects me and who I am or tells me I have to be someone or something that I cannot be and don't want to be (like heterosexual). Yeah, that's a lot to be hurt about.

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I have been hurt myself by so called Christians, so I can sympathize with you. All I know for sure is, Christianity SHOULDN'T hurt anyone! It should be about love. I don't believe it is a religion.. it is about a relationship with the Lord Jesus. So I sincerely am sorry for your pain. I think sometimes it is the worst kind of hurt because Christians are suppose to represent Christ.

One last thought... I don't believe that the Lord Jesus rejects ANYONE who is interested in a relationship with him. :) In fact, he doesn't reject anyone who doesn't want a relationship with him. He is ALWAYS trying to woo mankind to HIMSELF.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

As a gay man, yeah, I've been hurt by Christianity that rejects me

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Hello caddy:

You're not going to get any sympathy over here. Did you watch that video? You must have experienced worse, though... I cannot imagine the pain of being gay and attempting to live a Christian life...

So, let's kick their butts over on the current affairs pages where I've been having my way with the righty's for a long time. In time, like the segregationists during the civil rights movement, they'll come to see the error of their ways.

excon

Ex,

Not so, I feel badly for Caddy. SINCERELY!! I want him to know that just because some so called Christian rejected him doesn't mean the Lord Jesus does. Heck Ex, he doesn't even reject YOU.. lol ;)

As far as kicking the "righty's" butt... better not let Gal or Speech here you say that. Thems fighting words. :)

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello caddy:

You're not gonna get any sympathy over here. Did you watch that video?? You must have experienced worse, though... I cannot imagine the pain of being gay and attempting to live a Christian life....

So, let's kick their butts over on the current affairs pages where I've been having my way with the righty's for a long time. In time, like the segregationists during the civil rights movement, they'll come to see the error of their ways.

excon

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Well I'm not attempting to live a Christian life, that's for sure. See, but your comment served to point out a major problem with Christianity-- it has a distorted view of reality (for example, that gay people do not exist and are merely straight people who have lost their way, or have picked up bad habits that can be changed).

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Originally Posted by classyT

Ex,

Not so, I feel badly for Caddy. SINCERELY!!! I want him to know that just because some so called Christian rejected him doesn't mean the Lord Jesus does. Heck Ex, he doesn't even reject YOU..lol ;)

As far as kickin the "righty's" butt...better not let Gal or Speech here ya say that. Thems fightin words. :)

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Why feel bad? Why would I want to be a part of some religion (like Christianity) that rejects the very nature of who I am? It would be like a black person wanting to join a white racist church. It makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

Well I'm not attempting to live a Christian life, that's for sure. See, but your comment served to point out a major problem with Christianity-- it has a distorted view of reality (for example, that gay people do not exist and are merely straight people who have lost their way, or have picked up bad habits that can be changed).

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You are wrong. I can speak for myself that I live in reality and I KNOW there are Gay people in this world and have been as long as humans have been on this earth. I get it.

I feel bad because I am a person who has feelings and I know what it is like to be hurt. I don't want to see anyone hurt and angry.

AND last but not least... Christianity is not a religion... it is a relationship with Jesus Christ. When you understand that the Lord Jesus isn't rejecting you at all, maybe you can have a relationship with him. Forget about Christians who you feel don't live in reality and think you are really just straight and lost your way. My suggestion is to get to know Jesus and quit looking at Christians. Heck, most of them on this site alone I want to smack every now and again myself. I'm just saying... don't give up on the Lord Jesus just because of a few Christians who may have meant well but were really unable to direct and counsel you appropriately.

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Originally Posted by classyT

You are wrong. I can speak for myself that I live in reality and I KNOW there are Gay people in this world and have been as long as humans have been on this earth. I get it.

I feel bad because I am a person who has feelings and I know what it is like to be hurt. I don't want to see anyone hurt and angry.

AND last but not least...Christianity is not a religion...it is a relationship with Jesus Christ. When you understand that the Lord Jesus isn't rejecting you at all, maybe you can have a relationship with him. Forget about Christians who you feel don't live in reality and think you are really just straight and lost your way. My suggestion is to get to know Jesus and quit looking at Christians. Heck, most of them on this site alone I wanna smack every now and again myself. I'm just saying .....don't give up on the Lord Jesus just because of a few Christians who may have meant well but were really unable to direct and counsel you appropriately.

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You certainly seem well-intentioned, I can say that for you. You keep saying Christianity is not a religion but a relationship, and so on. Yes, I've heard that many many times in the past; it's a very old and banal expression. But the truth is Christianity fits every definition of a religion there is. Religion, relationship, it doesn't matter what your choice of terms.

I'm sure you realize many people --maybe most-- live their lives with no religion of any kind and lead full, happy, moral and fulfilling lives. I guess the point is you don't need it, it adds nothing to your life and quite to the contrary often does much harm. It's really just childish superstition.

God created us to have an instinctive fear, and this fear might be for snakes, a big black scorpio spider or let's say satan and sin. In any case when we fear something, we usually run from it. We need to get away because the instinctive fear is telling us RUN!.

God does not want us to befriend the snake, the spider, or the sin of satan because they represent death to us. This instinctive fear is meant to help us, and protect us.

God has and will send HIS wrath to destroy the spider, the snake, and sin of satan. So God's wrath becomes something to fear, " if " we have befriended them instead of running away. We need to stay clear of HIS wrath because HIS wrath will destroy all that have turned to befriend and enjoy these things.

God tells us this uncleanness comes through the lusts of our own hearts,(befriended / enjoyed); and God will give individuals up to their lust. Because they changed the truth of God into a lie, and now worship and served the creature more than the Creator God.

And because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

The call is for salvation, unto all. All that sin, all that are willing to hold FAITH in Christ Jesus.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

REPENT and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is not just for the gay, it is for all sinners. A willing heart to be all God created us to be, in HIS image of righteousness.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

God created us to have an instinctive fear, and this fear might be for snakes, a big black scorpio spider or let's say satan and sin. In any case when we fear something, we usually run from it. We need to get away because the instinctive fear is telling us RUN!.

God does not want us to befriend the snake, the spider, or the sin of satan because they represent death to us. This instinctive fear is meant to help us, and protect us.

God has and will send HIS wrath to destroy the spider, the snake, and sin of satan. So God's wrath becomes something to fear, " if " we have befriended them instead of running away. We need to stay clear of HIS wrath because HIS wrath will destroy all that have turned to befriend and enjoy these things.

God tells us this uncleanness comes through the lusts of our own hearts,(befriended / enjoyed); and God will give individuals up to their lust. Because they changed the truth of God into a lie, and now worship and served the creature more than the Creator God.

And because they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.

The call is for salvation, unto all. All that sin, all that are willing to hold FAITH in Christ Jesus.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to HIS abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

REPENT and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is not just for the gay, it is for all sinners. A willing heart to be all God created us to be, in HIS image of righteousness.

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Was this intended for me to read or is it just some generalized scare tactic? Your loving god doesn't sound very loving to me. This is just coercive garbage and nothing else. Believe or else! It that is? That's the best you can come up with?

It's nice to know that there isn't the slightest bit of evidence that any of it is true.

Further, and finally, your entire commentary was based upon certain (rather childish) premises that are not true, God created us to have an instinctive fear, and this fear might be for snakes, a big black scorpio spider or let's say satan and sin. What a fatuous remark. I don't fear snakes or scorpions or spiders. And many of the things you call "sin" are not immoral anyway and I certainly don't fear them. For example, covetousness. What's wrong with wishing you had something your neighbor had? Wanting something the neighbor has can be good because it's often motivational. It's wrong to steal, but not to simply wish for something someone else has. You call sex outside of marriage a "sin"? I don't. There is nothing wrong with it at all, as long as it is between consenting adults in private. So you see, your examples of fearing supposedly bad things because god put fear of them in your heart is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

Was this intended for me to read or is it just some generalized scare tactic? Your loving god doesn't sound very loving to me. This is just coercive garbage and nothing else. Believe or else! It that is? That's the best you can come up with?

It's nice to know that there isn't the slightest bit of evidence that any of it is true.
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Who was it intended for? Quoted: This is not just for the gay, it is for all sinners.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

This is not just for the gay, it is for all sinners. A willing heart to be all God created us to be, in HIS image of righteousness.

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(Matthew 4:4) It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Roman 1:22-23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 1:24-25 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient

Romans 1:29-31 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,whisperers, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

slightest bit of evidence ? God knew it all and wrote every word to warn everyone, and teach us to fear sin that comes upon us. HIS wrath is for evil, and it is there to help us. Roman 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse (evidence)

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Who was it intended for? Quoted: This is not just for the gay, it is for all sinners.




(Matthew 4:4) It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Roman 1:22-23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Romans 1:24-25 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

Romans 1:26-27 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient

Romans 1:29-31 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,whisperers, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful

Romans 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

slightest bit of evidence ? God knew it all and wrote every word to warn everyone, and teach us to fear sin that comes upon us. HIS wrath is for evil, and it is there to help us. Roman 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse (evidence)

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Instead of the bible quotes why not use your own thoughts and words? I don't accept or believe the bible anymore than you accept or believe some other religious text. The bible was written by ignorant sheepherders in the Middle East 2000 years ago who thought the earth was flat. What relevance has it today, especially to me? Would you pay attention if I quoted the Book of Mormon?

Cadillac, your posst question has been answered by several people.

Most churches still follow the Bible, and so will not follow the Lutheran lead on this.

You should move this to the discussion board, as it is clear that you did not want an answer to a question, but an excuse for your sin.

If you do not believe the Bible, have no use for God, and are not going to go to church anywhere, why bother to ask the queston in the first place?

Looks like you are a troll.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

Instead of the bible quotes why not use your own thoughts and words?

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Posted in #48 was my own words. The request made was for the slightest bit of evidence, and the evidence I have offered is the written WORD of GOD. Whether or not you determine the bible reliable, is your decision.

I find the same test applies to the biblical documents as we would to any other ancient writing. In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. The biblical documents have testimonies confirmed by several witnesses.

I do not deny you, your own choices in life. We are both accountable to our own choice.

Please know I do not attempt to persuade you either way. I offered my opinion to the question as to Why don't more churches follow the lead? And have followed by answering a request addressed to me

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Posted in #48 was my own words. The request made was for the slightest bit of evidence, and the evidence I have offered is the written WORD of GOD. Whether or not you determine the bible reliable, is your decision.

I find the same test applies to the biblical documents as we would to any other ancient writing. In the law, testimony is a form of evidence that is obtained from a witness who makes a solemn statement or declaration of fact. The biblical documents have testimonies confirmed by several witnesses.

I do not deny you, your own choices in life. We are both accountable to our own choice.

Please know I do not attempt to persuade you either way. I offered my opinion to the question as to Why don't more churches follow the lead? And have followed by answering a request addressed to me

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First of all there was no bible until about the 4th century. There were only scattered writings some called scripture, many of which conflicted with one another. Religious leaders of the time got together and decided some scriptures were "in" and that others were "out"(in terms of what they thought "god's word" was). Then later some other books got tossed (the apocrypha); yet, you sit here today and say your "bible" is the "word of god"? Who says it's the word of god, how do you know that? Your bible which consists of what?

You see it's all nonesense. There's no evidence for any of it. It's a fairytale.

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Originally Posted by galveston

Cadillac, your posst question has been answered by several people.

Most churches still follow the Bible, and so will not follow the Lutheran lead on this.

You should move this to the discussion board, as it is clear that you did not want an answer to a question, but an excuse for your sin.

If you do not believe the Bible, have no use for God, and are not going to go to church anywhere, why bother to ask the queston in the first place?

Looks like you are a troll.

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Whether I go to church or not, or refuse to believe the bible was not the point. It was a proper question concerning the church in general. There are plenty of gay men and lesbians who would like a place in the church not only as congregants but also as clergy and it is a valid question to ask why they cannot serve as pastors and still have normal committed relationships like their hetero counterparts. I was asking the question for them not for myself since I wouldn't go to any church anyway.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

You see it's all nonesense. There's no evidence for any of it. It's a fairytale.

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A scare tactic is manipulative words or actions which create a sense of fear, and these tactics are shown today as being funny. The reality of instinctive fear becomes useless if what is being said, and done is untrue.


"Don't Touch" "It's HOT" "You'll get Burnt"

Instinctively "I believe!" and from my experiences it is all true.

It becomes your choice. AND I pray you can experience the truth. Otherwise you can hurt alot of people.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

A scare tactic is manipulative words or actions which create a sense of fear, and these tactics are shown today as being funny. The reality of instinctive fear becomes useless if what is being said, and done is untrue.


"Don't Touch" "It's HOT" "You'll get Burnt"

Instinctively "I believe!" and from my experiences it is all true.

It becomes your choice. AND I pray you can experience the truth. Otherwise you can hurt alot of people.

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Instinctively I don't believe. Many people never believe, never have, and see the experiences of believers as nothing but self-deception.

You talk about hurting people? More people in history have been hurt by religion and for religious reasons than for any other. There are good people in the world who do good things, bad people who do bad things. But to make good people do bad things you need religion.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

You talk about hurting people? More people in history have been hurt by religion and for religious reasons than for any other.

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Agree and who hurt those people? Do you think that when people of religion were hurt it was not the evilness that hurt them? Do you think today we/America fight good people or do you think we flight against evilness?

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

There are good people in the world who do good things, bad people who do bad things. But to make good people do bad things you need religion.

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Oh come on, you can't really think this?

When we are faced with the evilness coming at us, do we need to defend ourselves? You see I feel God put man upon the earth to protect his family and love everyone. It would be wonderful if life on earth could be as the eternal life we are promised. But it is not, and evilness has been as God says, sown among us here on earth. That's why we have our instinctive nature to help us, and as an American, I feel we are a nation under God's power of protection "if we abid in HIS will. We can be the servants of God that help and bring protection to other nations of people.

This is really off thread.. I do pray for you, and care that your heart Has chosen to be blinded in love for God.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Agree and who hurt those people? Do you think that when people of religion were hurt it was not the evilness that hurt them? Do you think today we/America fight good people or do you think we flight against evilness?



Oh come on, you can't really think this?

When we are faced with the evilness coming at us, do we need to defend ourselves? You see I feel God put man upon the earth to protect his family and love everyone. It would be wonderful if life on earth could be as the eternal life we are promised. But it is not, and evilness has been as God says, sown among us here on earth. That's why we have our instinctive nature to help us, and as an American, I feel we are a nation under God's power of protection "if we abid in HIS will. We can be the servants of God that help and bring protection to other nations of people.

This is really off thread.. I do pray for you, and care that your heart Has chosen to be blinded in love for God.

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I rather like and agree with what one of our founding fathers had to say about religion:

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

The Age of Reason. Thomas Paine

Very well put I think. Religion, including yours, was set of (invented) to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit. That's all the churches have ever done. Destroy the mind, tell people how to live and take their money.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

I rather like and agree with what one of our founding fathers had to say about religion:

I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

The Age of Reason. Thomas Paine

Very well put I think. Religion, including yours, was set of (invented) to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit. That's all the churches have ever done. Destroy the mind, tell people how to live and take their money.

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It's sad that the church of your background never demonstrated to you what being a Christian is all about.

None are perfect because they are made up of humans, but some are a lot closer to the pattern than others.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Agree and who hurt those people? Do you think that when people of religion were hurt it was not the evilness that hurt them? Do you think today we/America fight good people or do you think we flight against evilness?



Oh come on, you can't really think this?

When we are faced with the evilness coming at us, do we need to defend ourselves? You see I feel God put man upon the earth to protect his family and love everyone. It would be wonderful if life on earth could be as the eternal life we are promised. But it is not, and evilness has been as God says, sown among us here on earth. That's why we have our instinctive nature to help us, and as an American, I feel we are a nation under God's power of protection "if we abid in HIS will. We can be the servants of God that help and bring protection to other nations of people.

This is really off thread.. I do pray for you, and care that your heart Has chosen to be blinded in love for God.

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All those who hurt or kill others believe they are right. How is it that only the Christians are right?

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

Very well put I think. Religion, including yours, was set of (invented) to terrify and enslave mankind and monopolize power and profit. That's all the churches have ever done. Destroy the mind, tell people how to live and take their money.

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Well as for me, I consider myself to be non-denominational and simply a child of God. The profit is life eternal, and contrary to enslavement, I believe we were set free and given liberty to choose (free will). My belief is that our Creator has given us love in every possible way that is possible.

Just as I believe there is a God, I also know there is evilness. And as a mother, I would protect and give my life daily for my children in a fight against evil. As a person, I would give my life daily to confess my love in ONE Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, and One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

It seems to me you're set against man/religions that have made God's love for you something it is not. However, I don't disbelieve that religion in some cases have tried to set discipline and rules up to help people follow God's will. Not all are bad and not all are good, and very similar to people themselves.

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Originally Posted by simoneaugie

All those who hurt or kill others believe they are right. How is it that only the Christians are right?

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Who said Christians?

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Well as for me, I consider myself to be non-denominational and simply a child of God. The profit is life eternal, and contrary to enslavement, I believe we were set free and given liberty to choose (free will). My belief is that our Creator has given us love in every possible way that is possible.

Just as I believe there is a God, I also know there is evilness. And as a mother, I would protect and give my life daily for my children in a fight against evil. As a person, I would give my life daily to confess my love in ONE Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, and One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in us all.

It seems to me you're set against man/religions that have made God's love for you something it is not. However, I don't disbelieve that religion in some cases have tried to set discipline and rules up to help people follow God's will. Not all are bad and not all are good, and very similar to people themselves.

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I love Thomas Paine's remarks that "my mind is my own church." Thank you. Yes. I don't need some other poorly evolved primate telling what his or her god said and thus instructing me on how to live my life. What an affront to my own autonomy that is.

What freedom is there in religion? It's the very definition of enslavement. Free to do what? Worship and praise god endlessly, grovelling before your god? What's so free about that? Would you demand that of your children? Of course not. Would you be so presumptuous as to call that free? How absurd.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

I love Thomas Paine's remarks that "my mind is my own church." Thank you. Yes. I don't need some other poorly evolved primate telling what his or her god said and thus instructing me on how to live my life. What an affront to my own autonomy that is.

What freedom is there in religion? It's the very definition of enslavement. Free to do what? Worship and praise god endlessly, grovelling before your god? What's so free about that? Would you demand that of your children? Of course not. Would you be so presumptuous as to call that free? How absurd.

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Again off thread, and yes I would answer I do expect my children to follow by my rules within my household. It's discipline and done for everyone's own good and welfare.

Life outside the household isn't different from that, because no matter where you go there are rules and owners of the rules.

I admit we always have someone that want to be the boss and take the power into their own hands. And they hurt everyone else in doing so because nothing can run smoothly and there comes the trouble makers.. The bad guy..

OFF thread!

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Again off thread, and yes I would answer I do expect my children to follow by my rules within my household. It's discipline and done for everyone's own good and welfare.

Life outside the household isn't different from that, because no matter where you go there are rules and owners of the rules.

I admit we always have someone that want to be the boss and take the power into their own hands. And they hurt everyone else in doing so because nothing can run smoothly and there comes the trouble makers.. The bad guy..

OFF thread!

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But you'd never treat your children the way your god treats you and call that love, or say it was kindness. You don't demand your children worship you, or grovel before you. And you would never be so cruel as to wish to keep your children weak, small and dependent, and under your power and control their entire lives. A true act of love would be freeing them to be themselves and be independent. The god of Christianity never does that. That god keeps you a slave for an eternity and call's it deliverance.

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

But you'd never treat your children the way your god treats you and call that love, or say it was kindness. You don't demand your children worship you, or grovel before you. And you would never be so cruel as to wish to keep your children weak, small and dependent, and under your power and control their entire lives. A true act of love would be freeing them to be themselves and be independent. The god of Christianity never does that. That god keeps you a slave for an eternity and call's it deliverance.

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You know what Cadillac, I don't know where you got your idea about God, I don't know why either. But the God I love, and who loves me, has given me my 3 children. And has given us 4 grandchildren. I freely love and am thankful to God for all that He is, and continues to do for me each day.

And when I look at the path my life has taken over the years, I rest very comfortable knowing God is watching over us all. My heart trust God because at least I know He says nothing He doesn't mean. No scare tactics, it's all true.

I don't like the bad guys, and God doesn't like the bad guys because they hurt others.

~in Christ

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

You know what Cadillac, I don't know where you got your idea about God, I don't know why either. But the God I love, and who loves me, has given me my 3 children. And has given us 4 grandchildren. I freely love and am thankful to God for all that He is, and continues to do for me each day.

And when I look at the path my life has taken over the years, I rest very comfortable knowing God is watching over us all. My heart trust God because at least I know He says nothing He doesn't mean. No scare tactics, it's all true.

I don't like the bad guys, and God doesn't like the bad guys because they hurt others.

~in Christ

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My idea of god comes from the same place as yours. Will you still go to heaven if you reject god? Not in your religion. So it's forced: believe or get smashed. Where's the love and freedom in that? Who would want to be under 24 hour a day surveillance, like god keeps you under and who would want to be judged merely by their thoughts? That's not love, that cruelty and enslavement.Your idea of freedom and love is a crude distortion of reality.

So, Cadillac,

You don't like Christianity?

You should thank the God you don't believe in every day that you don't live under Islam.

You KNOW what they would do to you.

Nothing is forced, it is a choice,

As for as the original posts, there are many groups that call thierself Lutheran, few are liberal. In fact gay rights ( which is not a right at all) is not within the teachings of Luther, and those churches calling thierself Lutheran go against his teachings on this.

Of course personally any church accepting gay behavior go against the bible and stop being christian at that point anyway

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sndbay

I don't like the bad guys, and God doesn't like the bad guys because they hurt others.

~in Christ

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You asked who specified Christianity when I asked why the Christians are right and everyone else is wrong, bad. Answer: You did.

This is the christianity board, and as such you are to get answers from a christian view point,

If you don't want to know what christians teach, please don't come and post here.

Next if you are not answering a question from a christian view point, that is what is expceted.

You can't give christian answers on a muslim board, and you don't get dishwasher answers on the auto board.

Simoneaugie,

That hasn't been my experience at all... I have felt just the opposite. Oh well I still think anyone should be able to answer but I also think it is appropriate to let the OP know if your answer isn't really christian.. or biblical.

Psst, Caddy,

You need to learn the difference between the QUESTION board and the DISCUSSION board.

Get it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

Psst, Caddy,

You need to learn the difference between the QUESTION board and the DISCUSSION board.

Get it??

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It seems much of the same thing goes on in both boards either way you look at it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

caddy,

Dude, why do I always feel you are mad at me? Maybe i'm misreading your posts but I feel some misplaced anger directed at me.

Well anyway my experience so far on AMHD has been that if you are someone who believes the bible is absolute truth on the Christian board...you aren't necessarily popular. for lack of a better term. But that's ok...i never WAS all that popular. ha

Caddy, all i can tell ya is that I believe the Bible is the written word of God. Inspired by the Holy Spirit and written by men. I believe this by Faith....i can't prove a thing. but the more you read the Bilbe and you understand it the more you realize it isn't just a book. It is absolutely Awesome and mere men could not have written it.

Biblical for me is anything written in those 66 books called the OT and NT

look I respect your right NOT to believe and to post anything you'd like to.

I think I said before i don't usually try to post answers on the Islam board. Because I am not a muslim and I don't read the quran. I have asked a question there before. I just wouldn't attempt to try to answer one. And the reason i think ( could be wrong) that Fr_Chuck is not happy about your posts is not that you aren't a Christian..because it is true many people answer on the Christian board that are not professing Christians but it is because of the disrespect for the Bible and Christianity you display in your posts.

Hope I answered your questions... now please stop being so darned irk with me. :)

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I'm not angry with you, of course not. That would be absurd. I think all I was pointing out was that we subject the bible and its teachings to none of the critical analysis and scrutiny that we apply to other subjects-- like science for instance. People just accept the bible because they accept it. There's no real answer for why or reason justifying it. It may be upbringing, it may be experience. Who knows? My personal feeling is that much it is genetic. Not that there's a faith gene, but there is likely some genetic predispostion toward believing in the supernatural -whatever form that takes- that some people seem to have and others don't. It seems to run in families as well. Atheist households produce believers and the households of believers produce atheists.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cadillac59

I'm not angry with you, of course not. That would be absurd. I think all I was pointing out was that we subject the bible and its teachings to none of the critical analysis and scrutiny that we apply to other subjects-- like science for instance. People just accept the bible because they accept it. There's no real answer for why or reason justifying it. It may be upbringing, it may be experience. Who knows? My personal feeling is that much it is genetic. Not that there's a faith gene, but there is likely some genetic predispostion toward believing in the supernatural -whatever form that takes- that some people seem to have and others don't. It seems to run in families as well. Atheist households produce believers and the households of believers produce atheists.

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When you say that the Bible has not been subjected to any critical anylisis, you are flat out wrong.

Those who compiled the writings that were put into the Bible examined each one critically, to see if it contained contradictions, was historically accurate, whether it was written by the one it was attributed to, whether it fit the chronology it was supposed to, etc. Every scrap of manuscript they had was compared to see if they agreed or not. Those that disagreed with the majority texts (about 80%) were rejected. (I am talking about the King James version here)

Only when a passage had passed all known tests to eliminate false texts was it placed in the Bible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galveston

When you say that the Bible has not been subjected to any critical anylisis, you are flat out wrong.

Those who compiled the writings that were put into the Bible examined each one critically, to see if it contained contradictions, was historically accurate, whether it was written by the one it was attributed to, whether it fit the chronology it was supposed to, etc. Every scrap of manuscript they had was compared to see if they agreed or not. Those that disagreed with the majority texts (about 80%) were rejected. (I am talking about the King James version here)

Only when a passage had passed all known tests to eliminate false texts was it placed in the Bible.

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Oh yeah. Some wackos in the middle ages examined some texts and made some judgment call about what was in and what was out and that's good enough for you? Amazing. Who were these people by the way? Name one. And what qualified that person (even if you can name one) to decide anything for us today, let alone what god's word supposedly is?

No thanks. I can trust my own mind in deciding what is god's word and what isn't. And there is no word of god because there is no god, or if there is, it's an impersonal (deist) god that does not intervene or care about human affairs.

The original bible was promulgated centuries before the middle ages by the Catholic Church after many years of study, discussion, prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit.
That bible is essentially very much the same and most of the recognized bible versions we have today.
The original KJV did have the Deuterocanonical books in it but because of Protestant pressure PLUS a shortage of paper at that time the publisher decided to no longer publish those books in future editions.
So what we have today are many versions of the bible which are incomplete.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

The original bible was promulgated centuries before the middle ages by the Catholic Church after many years of study, discussion, prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit.
That bible is essentially very much the same and most of the recognized bible versions we have today.
The original KJV did have the Deuterocanonical books in it but because of Protestant pressure PLUS a shortage of paper at that time the publisher decided to no longer publish those books in future editions.
So what we have today are many versions of the bible which are incomplete.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Right, but the bible was put together in the 4th century AD. Who were the people that decided what was in and what was out? And what gave them the right to decide for today, for us living in 2009, what is and isn't the word of god? That's what I'd like to know and no one even questions it! Amazing.

The bible is rubbish anyway, as far as I'm concerned so I couldn't care less. But it only serves to show how foolish believers are today.