Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I said that not taking no for an answer makes the person saying no feel like she's being raped.

I never did say the word rapist Tom.

---

Ah, so it is okay to compare us to people who rape as long as you don't use the word "rapist". Is that it?

Quote:

---

What's my reason? To set the record straight, that's all. To point out that bullying someone and forcing them to accept your beliefs is not the way to get anyone to believe. It's wrong, it's a violation, and I for one am done putting up with it.

---

Like you are on here badgering us to accept your views on this matter?

Quote:

---

Isn't it time for you to report the thread Tom? That's your MO.

---

Didn't you say that you were going to unsubscribe? Why not do so and let the discussion proceed amiably as it was beforehand.

Quote:

---

Ah, so it is okay to compare us to people who rape as long as you don't use the word "rapist". Is that it?

---

And it's okay to keep harassing someone that's asked you to stop just because she didn't actually say the word "no"?

Quote:

---

Like you are on here badgering us to accept your views on this matter?

---

Ditto.

Quote:

---

Didn't you say that you were going to unsubscribe? Why not do so and let the discussion proceed amiably as it was beforehand.

---

I've decided to stick around.

You can ignore me if you wish.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Triund

One of my friends, deletes my email when she finds that it contains Christain material.

Am I wasting my time

---

Yes your wasting your time , hello , she deletes them

Can't believe this has gone for nearly 5 pages , oh then again yes I can :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

And it's okay to keep harassing someone that's asked you to stop just because she didn't actually say the word "no"?

---

Nor have we been told that is even the message that she has been giving.

Quote:

---

I've decided to stick around.

---

Then please cease and desist trying to hijack and disrupt the thread. Please participate respectfully.

Try to get this back on track now... here is my prior response on the topic...

Keep praying, and keep the door open. Sometimes after the seed is planted, it takes time to come to fruition. We cannot convince a person into salvation. It takes us planting the seed, and the work of the Holy Spirit on the person's heart to bring the person to the point where they are open to receiving the truth of the gospel.

As far as how much to talk to her about it, or to send emails, that is something as a matter of prayer. There is a fine line sometimes between making sure that she knows that you are there to talk when she is ready, and perhaps being seen as an annoyance. Stay in prayer and follow God's guidance on that point.

Okay.

Here's my prior response;

Quote:

---

Why are you trying to force religion on her?

I too have friends that send me religious emails, I may read them if they're interesting, but it's just for the read, not because I'm interested in joining.

If it's all about Christianity, church, etc. then it gets deleted and I ask the person to stop. I have my beliefs, I don't need or want someone else shoving theirs down my throat.

If the person insists on sending more, even after I've asked them to stop, then I block their emails.

It's almost like being raped, you've said no but they won't listen or respect it. I have no tolerance for people like that.

That's my take on it.

The more someone bullies (which is what you're doing in my opinion) the more unsavory it becomes. You won't get through this way.

She's made herself clear, why don't you respect her wishes?

---

I don't see anyone trying to force anything on anyone. It is no more forcing it on someone that you would be forcing to give a needy person to accept food that you know that need.

Praying for someone to be saved is done out of care and love for others.

I feel sorry for you if you think that there is any way to compare a person expressing love as comparable to a rapist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

I don't see anyone trying to force anything on anyone. It is no more forcing it on someone that you would be forcing to give a needy person to accept food that you know that need.

Praying for someone to be saved is done out of care and love for others.

I feel sorry for you if you think that there is any way to compare a person expressing love as comparable to a rapist.

---

Tom, read carefully.

Quote:

---

It's almost like being raped

---

When a telephone solicitor calls me trying to sell a product I don't want and I say no, does he have the right to keep pushing?

Praying for someone and continuing to send emails that person has told you she doesn't want, different things entirely Tom.

Pray all you want. Stop sending material she deletes. Respect her beliefs like you expect her to respect yours.

Really, we're just going to go around in circles again.

You can't go one post without dredging up things you said you wanted to leave behind.

Unsuscribing.

I'm taking the high road.

Continue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tom, read carefully.

---

I've read everything that was posted.

Quote:

---

When a telephone solicitor calls me trying to sell a product I don't want and I say no, does he have the right to keep pushing?

---

So did the girl say no?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

First, Christianity is an extension of Judaism, and this religion goes back to the time of creation, so I am not sure how much older you can get than that. Christianity is simply a term given to those who follow the religion that started with Adam and Eve, carried on through the Jewish nation. It prophesied the coming of Christ, and those who followed the Messiah when He came were called Christians.

---

I am well aware of the fact that christianity has it's deepest roots in judaism. I also know that they are not the same religion. Christianity, itself, is just under 2000 years old. It may have roots in judaism, as well as numerous other religions, but it was only been a separate religion reletively short time.

Christianity is, according to merriam-webster, is the religion derived from Jesus Christ, based on the Bible as sacred scripture, and professed by Eastern, Roman Catholic, and Protestant bodies. Christianity and judaism are two very separate and distinct religions. Judaism, as a religion, has been around since about 1500 bce. Christianity has only been around since about 50 ce. To call christianity an extension of judaism is to disrespect both religions as the individual belief systems that they are. It is the equivalent of saying you are your father simply because you came from him.

Quote:

---

No one would follow any religion if they did not think it to be true. The question is whether there is evidence of its validity.

---

I'm not saying anyone would follow a religion they believed to be false. What I'm saying is that almost any believer of any religion will be willing and ready to present evidence of what they see as proof that their religion is true. In the end what you end up with are several people claiming certain events, relics, histories, or places as proof that their religion is truer (and usually better) than other religions. There is no way to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to the satisfaction of even two separate religions that one is truer than the other. To do so only leads to anger and wars.

To me it makes a lot better sense to just let people find whatever proof they need for whatever religion they choose to follow, and not argue over rather or not the proof is real or what religion is better. There would be FAR fewer wars if everyone just sat back and saw religion for what it is, a personal belief system that happens to be shared by several individuals who choose to gather for religious ceremonies and follow the guidelines presented by the holy books and/or leaders of that belief system. It's not a popularity contest. It's not a race. It's not a test. It's a personal belief system.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

I am well aware of the fact that christianity has it's deepest roots in judaism. I also know that they are not the same religion. Christianity, itself, is just under 2000 years old. It may have roots in judaism, as well as numerous other religions, but it was only been a separate religion reletively short time.

---

In actual fact, Christianity is just fulfilled Judaism. The believers in the Jewish messiah originally met in the same synagogues even. We follow the Jewish Messiah, the one prophecied right from genesis 3:15 onward. And no, it is not based upon other religions. I am not sure where you got your information from.

Quote:

---

I'm not saying anyone would follow a religion they believed to be false. What I'm saying is that almost any believer of any religion will be willing and ready to present evidence of what they see as proof that their religion is true.

---

Most hold their religions to be true by faith alone. And once again just because a person believes something does not make it true.

Quote:

---

to me it makes a lot better sense to just let people find whatever proof they need for whatever religion they choose to follow, and not argue over rather or not the proof is real or what religion is better.

---

There is a difference. If you choose the wrong god, your eternity is at stake. That is not better

Quote:

---

it's not a popularity contest. It's not a race. It's not a test. It's a personal belief system.

---

I agree that it is not a popularity contest, but it is also not just just a belief system. There are real consequences, both here and in eternity for choosing to believe in a false god rather than the one true God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

Why are you trying to force religion on her?

I too have friends that send me religious emails, I may read them if they're interesting, but it's just for the read, not because I'm interested in joining.

---

I am not forcing a religion on her. I am only sharing with her what I know. If I had lot of information and knowledge about ants, spaceships, seas, galaxies, clothes, politics and so on, I would had shared information about those things with her and my other friends.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

If the person insists on sending more, even after I've asked them to stop, then I block their emails.

---

The day she or others tell me categorically not to send them any email which has Jesus or Christian contents, I would stop it. However, I won't stop praying for them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

It's almost like being raped, you've said no but they won't listen or respect it. I have no tolerance for people like that.

---

It is not "almost like being raped". Do you know what fanatics from other religions have done and do to convert a person into their religion. And I am not a fanatic yet. Am I heading on the road to fanaticism - I do not think so. Even Christian pastors have done wrong with humans in te name of religion, but that is not the way which is pleasing to Lord Jesus. And they would have to answer for their actions when they see God.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altenweg

That's my take on it.

---

Thank you very much for your honest answer. This helped me to get the perspective from the other end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Triund

If I had lot of information and knowledge about ants, spaceships, seas, galaxies, clothes, politics and so on, I would had shared information about those things with her and my other friends.

---

If she said she wasn't interested in ants would you still send the emails about ants to her?

Boy, has this discussion swerved off course!
Triund, I think you are right. As Christians we are called to go and preach the gospel to all the world (MK16:15). If you have someone slam the door in your face (specifically tell you to STOP) and you were to continue, then that would be wrong. However like you have tried to point out to certain people in this discussion no one has ever said stop! So you are directed by the Lord to witness to them. Keep it up unless or until you are told to STOP! And I will continue to pray for your boldness to do it in the face of opposition.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

If she said she wasn't interested in ants would you still send the emails about ants to her?

---

That's the whole issue. People love to talk on any topic and love to get as much info as they can on any topic other than Jesus, the Bible or Christianity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 450donn

Boy, has this discussion swerved off course!
Triund, I think you are right. As Christians we are called to go and preach the gospel to all the world (MK16:15). If you have someone slam the door in your face (specifically tell you to STOP) and you were to continue, then that would be wrong. However like you have tried to point out to certain people in this discussion no one has ever said stop! So you are directed by the Lord to witness to them. Keep it up unless or until you are told to STOP! And I will continue to pray for your boldness to do it in the face of opposition.

---

Thank you, Donn. God bless you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Triund, how would you feel if she, or another friend of yours, began sending you emails reciting from the Book of Mormon? Or passages from the Tao Te Ching?

---

When I get emails from my friends who are Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims (Sorry, I do not anyone who is Mormon or others ), I read the emails and if there is anything I can learn, I take it and then delete it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

In actual fact, Christianity is just fulfilled Judaism. The believers in the Jewish messiah originally met in the same synagogues even. We follow the Jewish Messiah, the one prophecied right from genesis 3:15 onward. And no, it is not based upon other religions. I am not sure where you got your information from.

---

Many rituals and traditions in christianity have their roots in paganism.

Christmas was placed in December to ease the transition from paganism to christianity. Yule, the pagan holiday celebrating the birth of the sun god, was turned into christmas, the celebration of the son of god. Many of the symbols were kept as well. Candles, which later evolved into twinkle lights, were a symbol of the sun gods light. The yule log was kept from the previous year and burned again that year as a symbol of rebirth and the return of the sun god.

Easter started as eostara, the pagan holiday celebrating the roman goddess of fertility. I don't know what connection early christians drew between a fertility celebration and the resurrection of christ in order to commender the day. The symbols of the rabbit and the egg are left over from the pagan fertility rite.

Even the cross itself did not begin with christianity. There are depictions of crosses from thousands of years before christianity. It is thought that they were seen as a symbol of equality, and sometimes of the four cardinal directions.

Quote:

---

There is a difference. If you choose the wrong god, your eternity is at stake. That is not better

---

That is a matter of opinion. Not every religion has an equivalent to hell. Not even every christian believes in hell.

Besides, believers of other religions feel just as strongly that their religion will save them and grant them eternal bliss. Believers of reincarnation, for instance, believe that living a good life now insures that they will be born into a better life in the future, generally culminating in an end to the reincarnation cycle and the right to spend eternity at complete peace within nirvana, the cosmic energy.

Quote:

---

I agree that it is not a popularity contest, but it is also not just just a belief system. There are real consequences, both here and in eternity for choosing to believe in a false god rather than the one true God.

---

I'm just curious, what real consequences would I suffer right now if I didn't believe in the christian gods? And what consequences would I suffer in eternity? And what proof do you have of both?

I'm not being confrontational. I am honestly curious. I have heard many people claim, and even promise, terrible consequences for those who are not christian. I have just never heard anything that convinced me that any one religion has more merit than any other.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

I'm just curious, what real consequences would i suffer right now if i didn't believe in the christian gods? and what consequences would i suffer in eternity? and what proof do you have of both?

I'm not being confrontational. i am honestly curious. i have heard many people claim, and even promise, terrible consequences for those who are not christian. i have just never heard anything that convinced me that any one religion has more merit than any other.

---

First of all, Christianity does not believe in gods, but ONE GOD. So I am not sure if that was a typo or not, but please lets clear that up right up front.
Faith is the belief in things not seen. So if you have faith and believe in GOD. Then you start reading the bible. Many will try and claim it is simply a history book. And while that part is true, it also contains information on how we as believers are to try and live our lives. It also tells us what will happen in the future. You see, reading the bible there are hundreds of prophesies, most of them written hundreds of years before they were fulfilled. But they were fulfilled exactly as foretold in the bible. If you choose not to believe what is written in the Bible, that is your choice and in the end, if we(Christians) are all wrong about this then you will have nothing to loose. But on the other hand, if the bible is all true and in the end comes a judgment time, you will be held accountable as the bible teaches, and be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity. Personally while I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination I do get down and thank God for my salvation and ask for forgiveness for the mistakes I make each day. It is all and always your choice to make the decisions about Christ. That is one of the most wonderful curses God bestowed on man. The wonderful ability to make our own choices, and the curse of having to make our own choices.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 450donn

First of all, Christianity does not believe in gods, but ONE GOD. so I am not sure if that was a typo or not, but please lets clear that up right up front.
Faith is the belief in things not seen. So if you have faith and believe in GOD. then you start reading the bible. Many will try and claim it is simply a history book. And while that part is true, it also contains information on how we as believers are to try and live our lives. It also tells us what will happen in the future. You see, reading the bible there are hundreds of prophesies, most of them written hundreds of years before they were fulfilled. But they were fulfilled exactly as foretold in the bible. If you choose not to believe what is written in the Bible, that is your choice and in the end, if we(Christians) are all wrong about this then you will have nothing to loose. But on the other hand, if the bible is all true and in the end comes a judgment time, you will be held accountable as the bible teaches, and be cast into the lake of fire for all eternity. Personally while I am not perfect by any stretch of the imagination I do get down and thank God for my salvation and ask for forgiveness for the mistakes I make each day. It is all and always your choice to make the decisions about Christ. That is one of the most wonderful curses God bestowed on man. The wonderful ability to make our own choices, and the curse of having to make our own choices.

---

Sorry, I didn't notice the typo. I didn't mean to confuse or offend anyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

............ Especially those ones that try to entice you to pass it on like

"if you want to stand up for what you believe in, pass this on..."
"if this story touched you in any way, pass it on..."
"if you are not afraid to let the world know you believe..."

Of course, this is just another example of how religion tries to use fear, guilt, and shame to "entice" people to believe in what THEY believe in.

Your friend is just deleting these emails anyway... what good do you REALLY think you are doing?

People will not come to know God, whichever one it may be, just because they are on yours, or any one elses, email distribution list.

---

I do not forward emails to people because that have the lines like" if you don't send this to five of your friends, you will have misfortune ...and blah blah blah.....". But if the content in the email is good, or music and graphics are good, I forward it. Other than that, the emails I send to people, carry the links to some YouTube video, some website or a clip of a news, story, new resaerch or some incidence which I found on internet, from which I learnt something and enjoy it and feel that my friends should also enjoy that.

The reason for doing is that nobody has enough time to sit down and get every info available. We all share good news and good things with our nears and dears. We give them the headlines of the news and if they are want to know more in detail, they can do more research on that. And that`s why, I share Jesus and stories from the Bible and people`s testimony about Jesus or their lives with my friends who are both Christians and non Christians. I am not bringing horse to water, but rather taking water to the horse, knowing very well that horse will refuse to drink water. But I know that the horse won`t want to die of thirst. That is why I replenish the water in a trough for him. Yet still, if the horse is adamant to die of thirst, then I come out clean and dust off my sandals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

many rituals and traditions in christianity have their roots in paganism.

---

I would agree if you said that many rituals performed in churches which profess to be Christian have their roots in paganism. But Christianity is defined by what scripture teaches, not by what certain churches or denominations choose to teach or in some cases add to what the Bible teaches. Many such denominations or churches have added pagan or other rituals into their denomination, or added traditions and other doctrines or beliefs not found into scripture into their theology.

Quote:

---

that is a matter of opinion. Not every religion has an equivalent to hell. Not even every christian believes in hell.

---

Christianity once again is defined by what scripture teaches, not by majority vote on what certain people who profess to be Christian teach.

Quote:

---

besides, believers of other religions feel just as strongly that their religion will save them and grant them eternal bliss. Believers of reincarnation, for instance, believe that living a good life now insures that they will be born into a better life in the future, generally culminating in an end to the reincarnation cycle and the right to spend eternity at complete peace within nirvana, the cosmic energy.

---

Many people believe in very strange things like worshiping Elvis. It does not mean all are equally right.

Quote:

---

I'm just curious, what real consequences would i suffer right now if i didn't believe in the christian gods?

---

First of all, there is only ONE God, not gods. If you wish to criticize Christianity, you'd be far more effective if you found out more about what Christianity is beforehand.

Quote:

---

and what consequences would i suffer in eternity? And what proof do you have of both?

---

First, you are taking this thread very much off course and the question that you are asking reaches into a much wider sphere. To tell you briefly, the consequences that you suffer are because of your sin. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So the fact is that all of us are worthy of suffer the punishment, which in scripture is eternity in the lake of fire.

Too often people claim that God sends people to hell simply for not believing in Him. No, it is not that simple. It is because we first sinned and we are bearing the consequences of our sin, and have condemned ourselves.

What God did is that He came to earth manifest in the flesh, as a man, and went to cross that He might pay the price for us, and all we need to do is to accept that free gift, and this is where believing in Him comes in - and by accepting that gift, the price for that sin is paid and you no longer have to be subject to that penalty. Now, how would you accept a gift from someone that you don't believe exists or you don't believe is capable of doing what He said. So that is where believing in Him is important.

The evidence would take longer, and I am not prepared at this time to pull all that together because I am getting ready for a talk that I am doing tonight. Basically it comes down to the credibility of the source, and the evidence for the credibility of the source being what it claims to be is overwhleming.

Quote:

---

I'm not being confrontational. I am honestly curious.

---

If that is true, might I suggest that you put the guns back in the holster, and instead of entering on the attack, come in and ask questions. There are many of us quite willing to answer questions, but when someone comes on here attacking Christianity and demonstrating very little understanding of it, that does not come across as curious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

First of all, there is only ONE God, not gods. If you wish to criticize Christianity, you'd be far more effective if you found out more about what Christianity is beforehand.

---

I already apologized for my typo in a previous post. I didn't catch it before and I'm sorry for any confusion or offense it might have created.

I was raised devoutly christian and am well aware that there is only christian god. My fingers merely got ahead of me and added an extra letter.

Triund,
I agree with several who posted on this and Altenweg has made a good point.
Keep the door open but do not try to force religion on your e-mail friend.
Be gentle and kind and keep in mind that Christianity is a religion of attraction the way that Jesus himself set it up.
Prayer to the Holy Spirit id powerful and will work IF the Holy Spirit decides so.
So don't give up. The time may likely come when there will be a knock on your open door attitude.
If a person prays to God it is the beginning of a structured religion.
The holy Bible is full of structured religion.
Does your friend read the bible?
Perhaps your friend is referring more to organized religions has we have many of today.
Gently ask questions for more clarity so you understand better.
Invite questions from your friend about your belief.
Those are some of the paths you might use ti be more helpful and understanding.
Good luck. I pray that your efforts will eventually be successful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

many rituals and traditions in christianity have their roots in paganism.

easter started off as eostara, the pagan holiday celebrating the roman goddess of fertility.

---

'Christmas' is likely late Old English word Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, originating around 1038.

I've always heard non-Catholics make the claim that Christmas was a pagan ritual, or that it had its roots are in a pagan ritual. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? It would seem to me that the argument is a non sequitur; if it's a Feast day or Holy Day celebrating Christ's birth how is related to a pagan ceremony? Are you implying that early really practiced pagan worship? If this is the argument how and when did Christianity come into the picture? Christmas along with Epiphany was added to the least of the Catholic feasts days in the fourth century. Irenaeus (c. 115 A.D. – c. 200 A.D.±) and Tertullian (160 A.D. - extreme old age) omit Christmas from their list of feast days so it can be assumed that the celebration of Christ's birth wasn't as important In the early Church as it is today. That it was established on December 25th is no more significant than the correlation of your birthday with any one of the tens of thousands pagan feast days. I bet if you look, you'll find at least one or two. My birthday falls on the Feast of Epiphany, I wonder if that means I'm a wise man?
Source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don't ask who he is, haven't a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you're referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn't seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can't make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

Easter is the celebration of the Chris's resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

JoeT

JoeT777,
Well said. I agree.
There is NO pagan connection.
Fred

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeT777

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don’t ask who he is, haven’t a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you’re referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn’t seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can’t make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

---

No need to be rude to him. He has a point. Easter is named after the pagan god Ishtar, and the holiday was created by Constantine just after he formed the Roman Catholic denomination. He issued a letter (which was quite anti-semitic) the translation of which I can post here if you wish, which order that the date of the celebration of Easter be moved from the date of Passover (which is what it originally was) in order to avoid being associated with the Jews.

Quote:

---

Easter is the celebration of the Chris’s resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

---

I agree that it is the celebration of Christ's death and resurrection, but there is certainly a bit of an ugly side regarding the date of and naming of Easter that, if we are to be honest, we cannot deny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeT777

‘Christmas’ is likely late Old English word Cristes Maesse, the Mass of Christ, originating around 1038.

I’ve always heard non-Catholics make the claim that Christmas was a pagan ritual, or that it had its roots are in a pagan ritual. Can you explain how you came to this conclusion? It would seem to me that the argument is a non sequitur; if it’s a Feast day or Holy Day celebrating Christ’s birth how is related to a pagan ceremony? Are you implying that early really practiced pagan worship? If this is the argument how and when did Christianity come into the picture? Christmas along with Epiphany was added to the least of the Catholic feasts days in the fourth century. Irenaeus (c. 115 A.D. – c. 200 A.D.±) and Tertullian (160 A.D. - extreme old age) omit Christmas from their list of feast days so it can be assumed that the celebration of Christ’s birth wasn’t as important In the early Church as it is today. That it was established on December 25th is no more significant than the correlation of your birthday with any one of the tens of thousands pagan feast days. I bet if you look, you’ll find at least one or two. My birthday falls on the Feast of Epiphany, I wonder if that means I’m a wise man?
Source: CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas

The origin of the word Easter is unknown. The Roman Goddess of fertility was Bona Dea. The name of mythological goddess Bona Dea means "the good goddess". She was the Goddess of healing, virginity, women, as well as fertility. Sometimes called Fauna she was the daughter of Faunus. (don’t ask who he is, haven’t a clue) How did you get Easter out of Bona Dea? If you’re referring to the Teutonic goddess of the rising light of day and spring, her name is Edda. Doesn’t seem to fit does it? Easter --> Edda; I can’t make the connection with 'Easter'. Do you make this stuff up all the time?

Easter is the celebration of the Chris’s resurrection. It was during the Jewish Passover that Christ was crucified, died, was buried, descended into hell, on the third day he rose from the dead.

JoeT

---

I never said that christmas was a pagan ritual, just that a pagan ritual was displaced to make way for christmas. If you look into the history of christmas, which you obviously have, and the history of christianity's spread to northern europe, specifically england and ireland, you'll notice that christmas essentially came about at around the same time that the catholic church started converting the english isles. In order to hasten the conversion process and eliminate the pagan religions faster the church found ways to twist some of the pagan beliefs, and even holidays, to fit their message. It was a common practice in the early days of christianity. As I stated before, they turned the pagan celebration of the birth of the sun god into the christian celebration of the birth of the son of god. The fact that it now falls on December 25 has more to do with the restructuring of the calendar done by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. The pagan holiday of yule actually falls on the winter equinox, which generally falls on December 21.
Origin of Christmas

The word easter is most likely from Ostara, also called Eostre or Eastre, (sorry, I got the spelling wrong before). No matter which way it's spelled (which depends on which land in which the goddess was worshiped and the particular dialect), she was always a goddess of spring and fertility, among other things. The rabbit and hen were seen as sacred to her, as symbols of fertility and rebirth. Easter is still celebrated on the same day that the ancient, pagan ritual was observed on; the first Sunday after the first fullmoon following the spring equinox (which is why it moves so much from year to year). Christians saw the holiday as a convenient day to celebrate what was first passover and then turned into a celebration of jesus' resurrection. The celebration of spring, which was seen as the rebirth of nature, seemed like the perfect day to celebrate the rebirth of christ. It was also a handy way to settle a debate that had been troubling the church for several years, when to celebrate a previously jewish holiday that was becoming increasingly more christian.
Pagan Roots of Easter Customs: Here Comes Ol? Cottontail?. | Suite101.com

What is the origin of Easter? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Real Meaning of Easter

Easter, the History, Date, and Contemporary Meaning


Sorry I have more links for easter than christmas, but the information is more patchy concerning easter because it the conversion from ostara to easter was less seamless than that of yule to christmas. Some of the links under easter have information on christmas as well.

Once again, I don't claim that easter or christmas as pagan holidays or that early christians were worshiping pagan gods. They merely saw a way to convert the northern europeans to christianity by changing the reason behind some of their holidays. It's easier to change the meaning behind a celebration than to outlaw it. The early christians saw nothing wrong with creatively twisting a few words, tweaking a phrase, or adapting native customs if it meant that converting was easier and 'held' better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tj3

No need to be rude to him. He has a point. Easter is named after the pagan god Ishtar, and the holiday was created by Constantine just after he formed the Roman Catholic denomination. He issued a letter (which was quite anti-semitic) the translation of which I can post here if you wish, which order that the date of the celebration of Easter be moved from the date of Passover (which is what it originally was) in order to avoid being associated with the Jews.



I agree that it is the celebration of Christ's death and resurrection, but there is certainly a bit of an ugly side regarding the date of and naming of Easter that, if we are to be honest, we cannot deny.

---

There’s a difference between being rude and emphatic. Such nonsense as this is just plain simple stupid (FYI, that’s an emphatic statement not a rude one).

Ishtar is the Babylonian goddess of sex not Roman – which way do you want to spin, a pagan Roman holiday or a pagan Babylonian holiday? What relationship would there be between Constantine and Ishtar? And how does Ishtar relate to the fact that the date of Easter is calculated different from that of Passover? The point is that your schismatic man made traditions don’t change the fact that Easter, as we know it today, as it was known in the early Church was a Christian Holy observance of Christ’s crucifixion, death, and resurrection. There is no ugly side to it, because there is simply no connection.

JoeT

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

i never said that christmas was a pagan ritual, just that a pagan ritual was displaced to make way for christmas. if you look into the history of christmas, which you obviously have, and the history of christianity's spread to northern europe, specifically england and ireland, you'll notice that christmas essentially came about at around the same time that the catholic church started converting the english isles. in order to hasten the conversion process and eliminate the pagan religions faster the church found ways to twist some of the pagan beliefs, and even holidays, to fit their message. it was a common practice in the early days of christianity. as i stated before, they turned the pagan celebration of the birth of the sun god into the christian celebration of the birth of the son of god. the fact that it now falls on December 25 has more to do with the restructuring of the calendar done by Pope Gregory XIII in 1582. the pagan holiday of yule actually falls on the winter equinox, which generally falls on December 21.
Origin of Christmas

---

I took the inference as implying that the Christian Feast days were pagan ritual. It's usually couched that way, so I apologize for my bad assumption.

Pantheons, sun gods, moon gods, or goddess dressed in skimpy outfits didn't have anything to do with the establishment of the December 25th as Christmas. It had to do with religious scholars and theologians establishing, as best they could, the Feast day of Christmas. I'd also suggest that Yule folks, logs or equinox didn't have anything to do with it either. The point is that Christmas, as well as Easter, are uniquely Christian Feast days and paganism cannot be legitimately imprinted onto these feast days. One doesn't have anything to do with the other except maybe to share a date on the calendar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

the word easter is most likely from Ostara, also called Eostre or Eastre, (sorry, i got the spelling wrong before). no matter which way it's spelled (which depends on which land in which the goddess was worshiped and the particular dialect), she was always a goddess of spring and fertility, among other things. the rabbit and hen were seen as sacred to her, as symbols of fertility and rebirth. easter is still celebrated on the same day that the ancient, pagan ritual was observed on; the first Sunday after the first fullmoon following the spring equinox (which is why it moves so much from year to year). christians saw the holiday as a convenient day to celebrate what was first passover and then turned into a celebration of jesus' resurrection. the celebration of spring, which was seen as the rebirth of nature, seemed like the perfect day to celebrate the rebirth of christ. it was also a handy way to settle a debate that had been troubling the church for several years, when to celebrate a previously jewish holiday that was becoming increasingly more Christian.

Pagan Roots of Easter Customs: Here Comes Ol? Cottontail?. | Suite101.com

What is the origin of Easter? - ChristianAnswers.Net

The Real Meaning of Easter

Easter, the History, Date, and Contemporary Meaning


sorry i have more links for easter than christmas, but the information is more patchy concerning easter because it the conversion from ostara to easter was less seamless than that of yule to christmas. some of the links under easter have information on christmas as well.

---

And they would be all conjecture. They are all based on the speculation that the phonetic similarity creates a link. To my knowledge there is no credible link. One of your references suggested a Babylonian origin, another suggested that it was Teutonic. One said it was both. So which pagan goddess do you prefer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hheath541

once again, i don't claim that easter or christmas as pagan holidays or that early christians were worshiping pagan gods. they merely saw a way to convert the northern europeans to christianity by changing the reason behind some of their holidays. it's easier to change the meaning behind a celebration than to outlaw it. the early christians saw nothing wrong with creatively twisting a few words, tweaking a phrase, or adapting native customs if it meant that converting was easier and 'held' better.

---

I have a different opinion, which was more likely the case, that the Christian Holy day of Easter fell on a certain date which happens to be in the spring coinciding with thousands of pagan societies' worship of spring goddesses. Later folks such as the Paganism/Wicca (your link --- you do see the inappropriateness of the link, don't you?) with vested interests decided they would connect Christianity with paganism. What might their motif be? But, regardless of the motif, to base such theories on a phonic similarity is disingenuous.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 450donn

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

---

Why?

JoeT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JoeT777

There's a difference between being rude and emphatic. Such nonsense as this is just plain simple stupid (FYI, that's an emphatic statement not a rude one).

---

I think you were crossed the line to rude.

Quote:

---

Ishtar is the Babylonian goddess of sex not Roman

---

I said "pagan" not "Roman". Read again.

Quote:

---

What relationship would there be between Constantine and Ishtar?

---

Constantine was trying to make the church a cross between paganism and Christianity so that it would appeal to the pagans under his rule.

Quote:

---

And how does Ishtar relate to the fact that the date of Easter is calculated different from that of Passover?

---

You apparently did not read what I said - it was all clearly explained.

Quote:

---

The point is that your schismatic man made traditions don't change the fact that Easter,

---

Right - the traditions of the Constantine were schismatic, but they are not mine. Constantine stated that his intend was to separate the church from the Jews. I could and will quote excerpts if you wish to carry on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 450donn

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

---

Agreed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 450donn

What has any of this got to do with the OP's topic. Moderator needs to close this thread as it has drifted way too far off topic!

---

I agree, and I apologize. I will move my post to a separate topic, where those who wish to continue the discussion can follow me.

Here's a link for anyone who wishes to follow me there.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...ys-371457.html

Joe,
I agree with you and it is part of one structured religion.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Religion and Christianity has been structured from shortly after the death of Christ.

.

---

Hinduism goes back about 20,000 years, and is recognised as a religion. To say that Religion has been structured since the birth of Christ ignores several Religions.

Christ was born just over 2000 years ago. You are out by a factor of ten. Or don't you recognise other religions?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Triund

It has been quite long since anyone posted a question, so here I go.

I love to share good stuff with my friends through emails, especially Christian things which I come across internet. One of my friends, deletes my email when she finds that it contains Christain material. She says that she is not going to follow a structured religion. She says her prayers to God, but not in the name of Lord Jesus. About Christianity, she says that pastors and church leaders do/had sexually expolited people so she can not be a Christian. I explained her that coming to Jesus is having a relationship with Jesus and believing in Him is not a structured religion. Yet she is pretty adamant. I remember her in my prayers for her to come to Lord Jesus. I know that only Holy Spirit can change a person.

Should I keep trying to reach her or am I wasting my time and should "dust off my sandals?".

---

If she will give you her ear, I say keep planting the seed whenever you can. I had someone tell me once not to ever bring up salvation or Jesus Christ to him again. In that case, I dusted my shoes but still pray for him. It is funny because every now and again HE will bring up Christianity.. in those instances I am usually careful but I always speak the truth. So I say keep on a plantin... never know how the Holy Spirit will use it!

Pushtumpa,
I think Fr Chuck was talking about the religion of Christianity and not purposely ignoring other religions.
At least that is the way I read it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

This is the Christianity area and discussion is to be on that topic,

From other posts I place Pushtumpa on the troll list myself as one just looking to pick words apart.

He would have known what was being said but perfered to complain

In addition to what Fr_chuck said, there is absolutely NO evidence that hinduism has been around some 20,000 years. (There is no evidence of ANY religious activity beyond 6500 years ago.) Even if you count it as one of the earliest religions, it is still polytheistic(many Gods) while Judaism is recognised by ALL scholars(Bible AND secular) as the first monotheistic(One God) religion.