Originally Posted by Morganite
I was not defending any particular position, merely expressing the fact that there are some Christians who are not Trinitarians. As it happens I am neither Unitarian nor Trinitarian.
The Bible records that Jesus is God the Son and that he is the Son of God the Father. But he is not to be confused as being the same person or having the same will as God the Father or God the Holy Ghost, as the Bible makes plain. That is my personal position.
I do believe that Jesus is God in the flesh - that is what incarnate means, but he is the Son of God, not God the Father come in the flesh according to the Bible. I will not write on this at length but merely share a couple of Bible passages to illustrate my position.
In Revelation 1.5-6, John writes Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. This is clearly a reference to Jesus AND to His Father as a seperate entity.
1 Peter 3:21-22: Jesus Christ [..] is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.
Paul, in his epistle to the Corinthian saints, says this: As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
Paul knew as well as any man could know it that the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost constitute one Godhead of three personages. In the following verses he adds this: For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Here Paul speaks of both the Father and Son as God. Near the close of his epistle to the Roman saints, he said: And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. The "God of peace," who according to the scriptures is to bruise Satan, is Jesus Christ.
It is surprising that Christians can be confused and believe that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one substance or entity, in the face of the constant repetition in the New Testament of the evidence which in the plainest possible terms proclaims them separate and distinct [discrete] from each other.
The frequent declarations of the Savior that he and his Father are distinct from each other, but one in thought and action, is so plain that even the most simple soul should understand it. Our Redeemer was constantly addressing his Father in prayer. He taught his disciples to pray to the Father, not to him, and the most touching and tender appeal that was ever recorded is his prayer to his Father in the seventeenth chapter of John.
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent….
And now Father, glorify thou me with thine own self, with the glory which I had with thee before the world was….
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are….
And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are.
Thus from the lips of the Saviour it is plain that the Father and Son are separate Personages, yet one in power, wisdom and unity. Hence they are, with the Holy Spirit which carries out their will one Godhead, but three distinct persons. Jesus was not aksing the Father t make all his disciples into one massive individual person. That would be outrageous. Being one as Jesus and God the Father are one is being one in unity of purpose, etc.
This is some of the foundation for my belief , and, yes, it contradicts what you might call accepted Christian doctrine, but hoary old age is not a guarantee of truth. As an illustration, men have thought the world to be flat for much longer than they have known it to be oblate. Antiquity did not change their wrong belief into truth, and no more does it change anything that is not so into something that is so.
I am ready to be judged by God and his Son for accepting the word of the scripture as grounds for my beliefs. I do not fear the fires of hell, although I don't care to turn myback on those who are too ready to stand in the place of God and declare that believing in such and such that runs counter to ancient wisdom will transport them straight to Hell without any part in the love and mercy of a just and loving God who is our Father. That kind of homiletic pronouncement is antiscriptural codswallop and offensive to God.
M:)
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