I think you have the purpose of "praying to"/asking saints in heaven for intercession confused with "praying to" them to, for instance, heal you or protect you themselves. Only God has that power.
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I think you have the purpose of "praying to"/asking saints in heaven for intercession confused with "praying to" them to, for instance, heal you or protect you themselves. Only God has that power.
Never said that. But there is NO where in scriptures that tells you to pray to any spirits. That is a false teaching from the prince of false teachings Plane and simple.
But since that is not the answer that Fred wanted he insists on asking this same ridiculous quest over and over again.
Why is it so hard to understand the scriptures? Are there that many people blinded by their religion that they cannot see false teachings when it smacks them up side the head?
Nor is there any verse that tells us not to ask saints in heaven to intercede for us.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Ah but WG there is a place where the Lord specifically taught us how to pray. Luke 11:1-4. This would have the place for Jesus to teach something other than to pray directly to the father would it not?
There are a lot of omissions in the NT. This prayer doesn't tell us to ask other Christians to pray for us either. And Jesus did pray, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." The point of the Lord's Prayer is that we depend on the Father for everything. Asking for intercessory prayers only encourages that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Wondergirl,
I'm not confused about anything. I am talking about prayer in the spirit.. asking in the spirit. I TALK and ask fellow Christians to pray for me but I am not instructed anywhere to pray to another spirit. If it AIN't in the Bible... don't add it. That is my motto And guess what?. that motto is actually IN the Bible. Lol I think it works pretty darn well too! Where in the world does it say that Peter or Mary can even HEAR us pray? It is a waste of time and completely unbiblical.
As far as the Lord's prayer he was instructing US how to pray, he wasn't talking about intercessory prayer. There are NO omissions. What the Lord wants us to know... psst. It is IN THERE! ( like preggo)
Yup, I understand where you're coming from. I used to be there too. And I'm not Catholic either.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Yep. Let's look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
We can go directly to the throne of God the Father
We have God the Son as our mediator with God the Father
We have nothing in scripture telling us to pray to the dead
We have a prohibition against it in the Bible
We have an example of one attempt to communicate with a saint in heaven and God condemned the act.
Yep, it is beyond me why anyone woul;d ever want to do it.
Praying TO someone is a form of worship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Petitioning in a court is not praying TO the judge, but rather that is a different meaning for the word (check your dictionary).
There is sure is - it has been posted a few times during this discussion (in the prior thread)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I disagree wit you.. you have never been there wondergirl or you wouldn't have given it up. Truth is always just that...Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Tj3.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I like the way you put things... direct, to the point and correct!
Yup, I was there, was raised that way, lived most of my life as a fundamentalist/evangelical.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Wondergirl,
You got enlightened... right? That's nice.I prefer truth.
Tj3,
What are you doing here?
I asked for positive evidence. You are continually negative in this subject.
You have caused the shutdown of one thread on this subject.
I'll be very displeased if you cause this one to go down.
Fred
Enlightened is for a Buddhist.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I prefer to worship a God Who hasn't been smooshed into a little box.
Wondergirl,
I give you this much you are good with the little come backs. Ok... I prefer to worship my God in spirit and in truth. I also prefer (since he is the one that instructed us) not to add to his word. Believing and abiding in his truth is NOT putting him in a box.
Fred,
Wow, why you ticked at Tj3? I agreed with him. I don't think I am being negative.
Note. I just re read your question. Sorry I misunderstood it the first time.. I was giving you biblical truth. But it wasn't in agreement. So I guess maybe I am being negative in your eyes. :(
That is right. So often I hear people use this term "putting God in a box" to try to justify ignoring the limits that he gave us in scripture.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Fred's been like this with me for as long as I have known him (which is many years). I have offered my hand in friendship, I have asked him to take me up on my offer to take it off line so that we can discuss whatever is eating at him, and other suggestions, but he has outright turned down each of them.Quote:
Fred,
Wow, why you ticked at Tj3? I agreed with him. I don't think I am being negative.
classyT,
I also do most of my praying to God. But once in awhile I do asked the saints to pray to God for me.
I believe there is no sin in that and from the evidence that has been presented here and on another similar thread I know that there is no sin in asking the saints for help.
I am NOT picking on Tj3. I'm telling the truth.
In your case you are simply saying what you prefer or your choice in whom to pray to and that is good and fine.
I specifically asked for positive evidence that it is OK to ask saints to pray for us and have received some of that, Tj3 is attempting to provide the opposite against that and thus going against what has been aske for.
Some of my petitions to saints have been answered. To me that is proof that asking the saints for help does work.
As an example I have used a somewhat childish prayer to Saint Anthony, the patron saint for things that are lost.
It is, "Tony, Tony, look around. Somethings lost and must be found".
The I mention that which has been lost.
Lo and behold often what was lost is later found.
Was that an accident? Could be, but I think not for the request is often answered positively.
Try it sometime for yourself when something important to you has been lost.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
.
Many people believe many things, but that does not make it right especially when it is specifically prohibited in scripture.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Th3,
SEE...
There you are with your negativeness.
If you have no positive answer to my request you are not addressing the topic which calls for evidence FOR asking saints to pray for us or others.
Fred, you have been answered so many times it is not even funny any more
THE ANSWER TO YOUR QUESTION IS... N O N E!!
450donn,
Sorry donn, that is incorrect.
The post I have received FOR show that so far.
Fred
It makes one wonder why someone would ask a question and then decide that they will only listen to those who say what they wanted to hear to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I listen to what I asked for NOT what I didn't.
That's what I said.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
Please stay ON the topic of evidence FOR, nothing else.
Fred
Really, think about it. What's the worst that could happen if you do ask those who died in Christ to pray for you? Some think those spirits are sleeping until the Last Day, so then they wouldn't hear you. If they are indeed awake in heaven, God might be keeping them so busy that they don't notice you down on earth or maybe don't even hear you. Meanwhile, you have earthly saints praying for you and, of course, you are petitioning God. And if the saints in heaven hear you and pray to God for you, that's great! I don't see a problem.
Wondergirl,
You have made some good points with that.
Thanks,
Fred
I was the first grandchild on both sides of the family. I'm sure all four grandparents are in heaven, and they would be the first in line (after my father) to say a prayer for me, since they all did so and often when they were on earth. It's actually a sweet, loving thing to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
We have one example in scripture of someone who did exactly that, and we see the judgment brought against him:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
1 Sam 28:15-19
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy? 17 And the LORD has done for Himself as He spoke by me. For the LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hand and given it to your neighbor, David. 18 Because you did not obey the voice of the LORD nor execute His fierce wrath upon Amalek, therefore the LORD has done this thing to you this day. 19 Moreover the LORD will also deliver Israel with you into the hand of the Philistines. And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also deliver the army of Israel into the hand of the Philistines."
NKJV
Oh, tweedle dee dee! I'm not afraid of some old Philistines!Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
(And that had nothing to do with asking saints in heaven to intercede.)
It had everything to do with asking a saint in heaven. Scripture identifies the issue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
1 Sam 28:15
15 Now Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
NKJV
1 Sam 28:16
16 Then Samuel said: "Why then do you ask me, seeing the LORD has departed from you and has become your enemy?
NKJV
You need not fear the Philistines, but Fear Him who warned against calling up the dead. The Philistines did not succed because of their strength, but because of the disobedience against God by Saul.
Tsk, tsk. The Lord hasn't departed from me. And look who was calling Samuel (who is alive in heaven).Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Well, you hope that the Lord has not departed from you. I cannot comment one way or another on your specifics, but clearly God does not take well to people committing what He called an abomination (in Deut) by speaking those who died in the flesh (which includes Samuel)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
He hasn't departed from me. That I know with all my heart.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Wondergirl,
Yes it is a sweet loving thing to do.
Just as Jesus prayed for us while here with us on earth.
I think the saints in heaven are more the willing to pray for the saints on earth for they all are loving beings.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Good - well don't go committing any acts that He calls abominations like speaking to those who are dead in the flesh! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
They are in heaven because they love the Lord. Would they want us to commit a sin of trying to communicate with them? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
This and Fred's last identical question reminds me of the story in Mark 10. That is one of the reasons I have simply given up on those that refuse to believe what the Word has to say on this subject!
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