They list them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
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They list them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Oh Gosh this is like one of my favorite topics. First I would like to say it is SOOOO not like picking and choosing and I don't like when Christians say things like "that doesn't count anymore". It all counts. Let me try to explain.Quote:
Originally Posted by michele1983
In the Old Testament the Lord gave Moses the Law which is much more than just the 10 commandments. There were rituals, things they couldn't touch, couldn't eat it etc. When a Jew wanted to worship, sacrifice, make atonement for sin it all had to be done in the temple. Ok after the death of the Lord Jesus and the Jews rejected him as their messiah the LORD instituted a new covenant. We are no longer living under the law that God gave to the Jews but we are living under what we call GRACE. It doesn't mean that we are free to sin and do what we want but we aren't living under that Law because Jesus fulfilled it. It was given to man so that he might know what he is and that he can't possible keep it perfectly. The Lord has set aside Judaism and the Jewish Nation ( not a jewish PERSON) for NOW and he is calling out a people for his name sake. There is no need for sacrificing because he was the PERFECT sacrifice. Actually living under Grace we are called to an even HIGHER standard than the Law. Now after the church is gone, the Lord will begin to deal with the Jewish nation again and during the 1000 year reign, I believe the bible teaches that the Lord Jesus will reinstitute the Law. But for now... we live under grace.
I don't know if any of that made sense to you but let me give you an example of being called to live a higher standard than the Law... Jesus said this...
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
So you see, even THINKING about it is a sin... THAT is now the standard for the Christian.
The higher standard is Love.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Jesus said there are two Commandments now, Love God and Love your neighbor (i.e. everyone).
YEs, we are called to Love. No doubt about it.
Not quite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Catechism of the Catholic Church - The Ten Commandments
Notice how the commandment about graven images is not listed as one of the commandments?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
?? Your link has the graven images, it is on the left, even jumps right at you,
And the "catholic" list is the same list used by the Lutheran church, the Anglican church, and most all churches
That is the quote from Exodus (which does indeed contain a prohibition against graven images), not the official 10 commandments of the Catholic Church. You will not find a listing of the ten commandments from the Roman catholic Church that lists the prohibition against graven images as a commandment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Not true. There are variations among Christians for numbering all the Commandments which affects which number refers to what sin. Some Christians separate One & Two, No Other Gods and Graven Images; Lutherans and Catholics lump them together into one commandment. The opposite is done with the last two commandments. Some Christians lump them together; Lutherans and Catholics say Nine is coveting things and Ten is coveting people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Not shure what denominations you might be referring to that use a different ten commandments other than those given in Du 5?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
If they are using something different I would be very suspicious of that organization. For if it isn't in the Bible or if they have modified what is in the Bible they are not following God.
I did not say that there not variations, did I? In fact I pointed out a variation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I simply responding to your comment about one specific group of denominations by pointing out that they did not include that commandment.
Different order, not different commandments.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
The division of Exodus 20:2-17 into ten parts has been done differently in history by various theologians whose divisions were adopted by their church (or rejected by those not of their church).
The oldest method, found in the writings of Philo and Josephus (first century), takes verse 3 as the first commandment, verses 4 through 6 as the second, and so forth. This is called the Philonic division, and it was adopted by the Orthodox Greek Church and by MOST Protestants with the exception of the Lutherans.
Later the Jewish Talmud (third century) treated the preface in verses 1 and 2 as the first of ten "sayings" and combined verses 3-6 as the second saying. This is called the Talmudic division, and was adopted by all Jews.
In the fifth century Saint Augustine listed the ten commandments by beginning with the Talmudic second saying as the first commandment; and, following the word order of Deuteronomy 5:21, making the ninth commandment a prohibition of the coveting of a neighbor's wife, and the tenth a prohibition of coveting his house and other property. This is known as the Augustinian division.
The Roman Catholic church accepted Augustine's method, and Luther also continued in this tradition with one modification: he preferred to follow the word order of Exodus 20, and so his ninth commandment became a prohibition against coveting the house and his tenth prohibited coveting the wife, slaves, and animals. Lutherans continue to follow this method.
The above being true, the following is in some dispute...
Presbyterians follow the order given by God to Saint Presbytus on the sacred Isle of Iona, deleting commandments 4 and 6, footnoting exceptions to 7, 8, and 9, and inclusively retranslating #10 to include the coveting of one's husband; a copy of which lies somewhere beneath the abbey of Saint Andrews, patron saint of all true believers and golfers.
--from rotation.org (Theology and Denominational Questions)
Thanks for pointing out what I have recently discovered. Most christians are hopelessly and completely lost. I think the whole christian faith is doomed, for failure. What you pointed out is exactly the problem. Picking and choosing, what you think is right for you.
But I don't blame the pastors who are just interested in fleecing their flocks and don't even know or care about the truth and educating them on the ways of the lord. The bible that I have a problem with because it so conveniently skewed, to keep the masses coming so they can continually be brainwashed and so the cycle continues.
By posting and asking these questions I feel you are well on your way to discovering what it means to be a believer in God. But don't look to the bible for these answers cause personally that book makes no sense to me. I was once in your position and I discovered a way of spirituality and connecting to the one and only god, who is the creator and tapping into his endless stream of light. That is what this life is about and not who is the most devout christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Wow. You have some seriously strong statements in your post that can not be backed up except by what YOU THINK. Christianity is NOT doomed.. quite the contrary. There are many Christians that simply do not know how to rightly divide the word of God.. it is a process. I can assure you that NO ONE picks and chooses if they have any understand of God's word.
My adivise is completely diffent than... if you want to know God and have a deeper understanding of him and his enless stream of light... you need to read the Bible. But before you do, I would suggested praying and asking the Lord to direct you, open your eyes and then send people in your path that can help you along the way.
I read the bible and it made absolutely no sense to me. Here's my problem with the bible, it's like a riddle/code that preachers try to explain when they don't even know the meaning in itself. I found the truth when I becan the study of kaballah and reading the zohar, its all the things the bible says but its more detailed and it made sense to me. (i.e) when jacob fought with the angel and would not let go of him until he blessed him. Kaballah offered me an explanation to this that made sense to me. i.e when abraham was out in the night plotting the stars, bible does not tell you the importance of such an act, understanding astrology is another post but make no mistake we where born @ the exact time that was needed for us to fulfill our destiny on this earth. Fundamental basics such as birth date and it relevance on our destiny would definelty be an asset to people searching for their sole purpose in this life. I guess different strokes for different folks. I am very fortunate to have found a spiritual teaching that has answered all of the questions the church was not able to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Look I am not going against the church I just feel that people.individuals don't need religion i.e christianity to be close to God or have him in their hearts. God is so readily available to all of us as we are born and created in his image. Everyone is God within their own selves.
Denouncing christianity has allowed me to think outside the box and not worry if my thoughts and acts are sins against God. The only time I pray now is when I am meditating and trying to elevate myself higher, so that I can tap into gods light, but to sit down and saw the our father I will not. The supplement and consciousness of my mind and heart connecting to my soul and allowing the creators light to shine through is all the guidance I need in this life.:)
Since you feel you are so enlightened with this new found religion of your you should do a web search for cults and read up on how to spot them. You to me sound like you are spouting one of the "new age" religions theme song!Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Well, I suppose I do see why you denounce Christianity. You want God on your terms, you are trying to elevate yourself so you can tape into HIS light. God says to humble yourself before him, recognize you have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. Scripture also teaches there is only one way to the Father through Jesus Christ. (John 14:6)Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
He even says lets reason this out together, though your sins are as scarlett they can be white as snow. The problem you have is thinking that YOU can in fact reach that LIGHT on your own, without his Son, without doing it HIS way. Can't be done. I'm sorry and I mean no disrespect to you. I do not tell you this on my authority, I tell you this because it is what the Word teaches. You may in fact have the "feel goods" and the experience of a "connection" but don't be deceived. God sent HIS ONLY SON to die and suffer the sins of humanity and he says there is ONLY ONE WAY you can come to me.. thru HIM.. the LORD JESUS.
I have boys. I love them more than anything in the whole wide world. I mean Honestly the love I have for them is so powerful I can't put it into words. I'm thinking if I had to give up my oldest son to save the entire world and it was the only way to do it and then people began to complain and say that's nice that you did that an alll but I have this "spirtual enlightening" thing happening in my life and I don't NEED your WAY... man I'd be so ticked. My son means everything to me... and I am just a sinful woman with sinful boys. How much more insulting can you be when you say NO to a Holy God who sent his Sinless Son? But I've got good news. God isn't ticked with you, he isn't like ME. He loves you and he is trying his best to get you to see you are wrong. Don't give up on the LORD and Christianity.. he is a GOOD God and he loves you very much.
I'm afraid to hit the "disagree" button since I have been reprimanded for not using it in the correct way, so let me just say it here. I disagree. She never said she had found a whole new religion. She just found her way to God without all the hulla-baloo that the christians on this board are fighting over once again. BTW, "new age" is not a dirty word that she "spouted".Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
To suggest that she read about cults is an insult to her intelligence. Like she does not know her own mind, when quite the opposite is true. It is the followers of this version or that version of the bible that does not know their own mind or essence. They are looking for someone or something to tell them how to believe.
ohh let me correct you before you go to far, my study of kabbalah is a spiritual study. Its not a religion like christianity etc. Big difference I don't belong to any organized or unorganized religion. But I am a believer of God. Most people think you should believe in god and group yourself with a religion, but that is not true and I am proof of it. I believe there is a creator a supreme human being that created us and that is God the one and only creator.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Let talk about this cult thing you mentioned. First lets start with the definition of the word cult"
Dictionary definitions
Dictionary definitions of the term "cult" include at least eight different meanings. These include both classic and unorthodox religious practice, extreme political practice, objects or concepts of intense devotion including popular fashion, and systems for the cure of disease based on dogmatic teachings.[16]
The Merriam-Webster online dictionary lists five different definitions of the word "cult."[16]
1. Formal religious veneration
2. A system of religious beliefs and ritual; also: its body of adherents;
3. A religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also: its body of adherents;
4. A system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator;
5. Great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book).
The Random House Unabridged Dictionary's eight definitions of "cult" are:
1. A particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies;
2. An instance of great veneration of a person, ideal, or thing, esp. as manifested by a body of admirers;
3. The object of such devotion;
4. A group or sect bound together by veneration of the same thing, person, ideal, etc;
5. Group having a sacred ideology and a set of rites centering around their sacred symbols;
6. A religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader;
7. The members of such a religion or sect;
8. Any system for treating human sickness that originated by a person usually claiming to have sole insight into the nature of disease, and that employs methods regarded as unorthodox or unscientific.
Webster's New World College Dictionary defines "cult" as:
1a. A system of religious worship or ritual
1b. A quasi-religious group, often living in a colony, with a charismatic leader who indoctrinates members with unorthodox or extremist views, practices or beliefs
2a. Devoted attachment to, or extravagant admiration for, a person, principle or lifestyle, especially when regarded as a fad [the cult of nudism]
2b. The object of such attachment
3. a group of followers, sect
For authoritative British usage, the Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English definitions of "cult" and "sect" are:
cult[18]
1 a system of religious worship directed towards a particular figure or object.
to a small religious group regarded as strange or as imposing excessive control over members.
3 something popular or fashionable among a particular section of society.
sect[19]
1 a group of people with different religious beliefs (typically regarded as heretical) from those of a larger group to which they belong.
to a group with extreme or dangerous philosophical or political ideas.
British "sect" formerly included a contextually implied meaning, of what "cult" now means in both USA and the UK.[20] Some other nations still use the foreign equivalents of old British "sect" ("secte," "sekte," or "secta." etc.) to imply "cult."[21] Both words, as well as "cult" in its original sense of cultus (e.g. Middle Ages cult of Mary), must be understood to correctly interpret 20th century popular cult references in world English.
Surely Kaballah is not a religion like christianity etc. its only a spiritual belief and there's a hugh difference. But I don't blame you cause if you do belong to an organized religion it really does not encourage members to think out of the box.
Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Thanks for sharing your views but I don't share them anymore. I believe and love jesus and try to be more like him, but he is not my saviour. I am my own saviour. Jesus even said that all we need to be close to god is already within us.
Thank you so much for getting it. The behaviour these christian on this board display is exactly the problem. Closed minded quoting all this passages from the bible is absolutely irrelevant to me anyway. Only difference with me these days is that I have a spiritual belief that does not belong to any organized religion. This belief allows me to love God and Jesus:).Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Since you are so enlightened, maybe you should study this web site for a definition
IDENTIFYING A CULT
Or
Frontline Ministries - How to Identify a Cult
Sorry to say, but In my opinion your description fits right into the classic cult mantra.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Glad to see you finally figured out that if you disagree with something said that it does not deserve a reddie, unless factually incorrect. Rather you simply state your opposition to a comment/comments by another poster:D
Yep! I don't blame you after years of being brainwashed by your religion its impossible to think that the true cult is really the religious group you follow.Quote:
Originally Posted by 450donn
Cause when I read the definition of cult Christianity can definitely fall into this category of a cult. Really is a cult a bad thing? Or are you another victim of media propaganda that group cults from such a negative view point. My understanding of the world cult is more open than yours! Just like my views on spirituality are more open! Hmmm I sense a pattern here ohh yes its all about the church and their constant brainwashing of their followers. I really feel bad for you, being so limited and operating under the laws of the church and not really being able to express oneself fully. So sad:(.
But there is a light in the midst of all this chaos as a speci we are now moving into the age of aquarius which is the age where people will begin to ask questions, and look past the church and its limited views to find answers. I am more than proud to say that I do belong to that movement and whatever name you have for it that's your business.
One more thing the church has always tried to silence people that defy their laws by painting a bad picutre of them, making it look like if you don't follow the churche's laws you're a renegage. Think back hundreds of years ago where secret societies like the free masons and the luminates tried to find scientific reasons for our existence and the church branded them as outlaws.
These acts by the church has been going on for so long cause they have gulable people that don't want to do the hard work to reach enlightenment, like working ont heir insides, from the soul within. Instead its more conveneint to go to church every Sunday ad listen to the pastor preach. To my that's complete nonesense and these so called christians are really taking the easy way out.
What we are moving into, Lighterrr, are the final stages of the last days.
When the Church leaves, those who wanted to be free from the influence of those brainwashed Christians will get their wish.
They will enjoy the sensation for maybe a few days.
The age of aquarius will not look so good after that.
You don't believe that now. You will, trust me on this.
Please elaborate I do want to hear moreQuote:
Originally Posted by galveston
ere has been much confusion about cults and how to 'pickem'.
I clicked on your cult link and this is what I discovered.
Some have difficulty identifying a cult because it is not so easy to identify one that is not even religious. For this reason, over the years, different definitions of what actually is a cult have developed to make it easier when you know little about their beliefs.
The different definitions:
SECULAR DEFINITION
CULT - From the Latin "cultis" which denotes all that is involved in worship, ritual, emotion, liturgy and attitude. This definition actually denotes what we call denominations and sects and would make all religious movements a cult.
That's not me. Not part of a religious movement or denomination.
CHRISTIAN DEFINITION
CULT - Any group which deviates from Biblical, orthodox, historical Christianity. e.I. They deny the Deity of Christ; His physical resurrection; His personal and physical return to earth and salvation by FAITH alone.
Not me. I deviate from the bible only because there is no way to know it is correct but I do not deny a diety because I believe He dwells in all of us at a certain level.
This definition only covers those groups which are cults within the Christian religion. It does not cover cults within other world religions such as Islam and Hinduism. Nor does it cover Psychological, Commercial or Educational cults which do not recognize the Bible as a source of reality.
UNIVERSAL DEFINITION
CULT - Any group which has a pyramid type authoritarian leadership structure with all teaching and guidance coming from the person/persons at the top. The group will claim to be the only way to God; Nirvana; Paradise; Ultimate Reality; Full Potential, Way to Happiness etc, and will use thought reform or mind control techniques to gain control and keep their members. This definition covers cults within all majopr world religions, along with those cults which have no OBVIOUS religious base such as commercial, educational and psychological cults. Others may define these a little differently, but this is the simplest to work from. THE 'ORTHODOX BIBLE-BASED CULT'
Not me either.
A group is called a cult because of their behaviour - not their doctrines. Doctrine is an issue in the area of Apologetics and Heresy. Most religious cults do teach what the Christian church would declare to be heresy but some do not. Some cults teach the basics of the Christian faith but have behavioural patterns that are abusive, controlling and cultic.
Not me.
This occurs in both Non-Charismatic and Charismatic churches. These groups teach the central doctrines of the Christian faith and then add the extra authority of leadership or someone's particular writings. They centre around the interpretations of the leadership and submissive and unquestioning acceptance of these is essential to be a member of good standing. This acceptance includes what we consider non-essential doctrines e.I. not salvation issues (such as the Person and Work of Christ.) The key is that they will be using mind control or undue influence on their members.
Not me. Sounds more like Catholics and some christians.
An excellent book on this subject is "Churches that Abuse" by Dr Ronald Enroth.
Using these guidelines of definition, Bible-based, Psychological, Educational and Commercial aberrations can easily be identified.
OTHER IDENTIFICATION MARKS
(a) The group will have an ELITIST view of itself in relation to others, and a UNIQUE CAUSE. e.I. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES RIGHT - everyone else is wrong. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES DOING GOD'S WILL - everyone else is in apostasy.
This describes the christian cult. This is not me for sure.
(b) They will promote their cause actively, and in doing so, abuse God-given personal rights and freedoms. This abuse can be THEOLOGICAL, SPIRITUAL, SOCIAL & PSYCHOLOGICAL.
HOW THEY DO THIS
1. Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.
Like the pope?
2. They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.
3. They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks. This could be in the form of threats of dire calamity sent by God if they leave; certain death at Armageddon; being shunned by their family and friends etc. This is a vital part of the mind control process.
4. Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group. This could be compulsory tithing (which is checked); signing over all their property on entering the group; coercive methods of instilling guilt on those who have not contributed; selling magazines, flowers or other goods for the group as part of their "ministry".
5. At the same time bible-based cults may ridicule churches that take up free-will offerings by passing collection plates and/or sell literature and tapes. They usually brag that they don't do this. This gives outsiders the intimation that they are not interested in money.
6. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. The lives of members will be totally absorbed into the group's activities. They will have little or no time to think for themselves because of physical and emotional exhaustion. This is also a vital part of the mind control process.
7. There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members. This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on "how to be a true Christian" or "being obedient to leadership". Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.
8. Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class - that they are all equal.
9. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged. Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion. There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission. This is vigilantly maintained.
10. Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way. This could be in the form of "dobbing" on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for "spiritual welfare".
They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception/theocratic strategy) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.
11. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats. Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a "covenant" and feel threatened by this.
Refugees of the group are usually faced with confrontations by other members with coercion to get them to return to the group.
Definitely not me.
SOME ABUSES OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS:-
1. ABUSE OF INDIVIDUALITY They adopt a "groupness" mentality. They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.
2. ABUSE OF INTIMACY Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.
3. ABUSE OF FINANCES Pressure to give all you can to the group. In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.
Ewww, I know a church of god person that does this. Creepy.
4. "US VERSUS THEM" MENTALITY Isolation from the community in general. Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened" etc. Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media - the world in general. Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a "means to an end".
The part I bolded sounds like the christians motivation for believing.
5. ABUSE OF TIME AND ENERGY The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities. They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.
6. ABUSE OF FREE WILL They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken. Their "will" actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it. This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period through intimidation. Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".
RESULTS OF THIS ABUSE
1. PERSONALITY CHANGES
Relatives will say they no longer recognize the person. From a warm, loving personality will come heaped abuse, rejection and feelings of hate. The cult member sees himself as "righteous" in comparison and this comes across in their attitude toward all outsiders.
2. LOSS OF IDENTITY
They cannot see themselves as individuals apart from the group. Some even change their name as a rejection of their former life.
3. PARANOID - WE ARE BEING PERSECUTED
Any time you say anything negative about the group, whether justified or no, it is regarded as "persecution". Any criticism of the individual is also seen as persecution only because they are the "true Christian" or "enlightened" one - not because they, as an individual, have done the wrong thing. However, at the same time they will feel free to criticise whatever you believe, say and do because they are "the only ones who are right".
4. SOCIAL DISORIENTATION
They lose their ability to socialize outside the group. This can go so far as to not being able to structure their time or make simple decisions for themselves when they leave.
Their world-view alters and they perceive the world through their leaders eyes. They become very naïve about life in general.
5. SEVERE GUILT COMPLEXES
They are made to feel guilty of everything they did before entering the group and are to strive to be "good" and "worthy" for "eternal life". Misdemeanors are made into "mountains" so that members are in a constant state of guilt for infringing even the most minor rules. Guilt comes because they aren't doing enough; entertaining doubts or questions; even thinking rationally for oneself.
This guilt is piled upon pile with new rules constantly being laid down about what is sinful and what is not. Illness may be seen as lack of faith - more guilt. Emotional illness may be seen as proof of sin in your life - more guilt.
SUMMARY
Not all these points will be found in every cult, but all cults will have some if not most of them, although these may vary to some degree.
Copyright 1985, 1991 Jan Groenveld
Internet Address: [email protected]
Mail: PO Box 2444 Mansfield Q 4122 Australia
Reproduction is permitted only if text is intact. The above identifying information must be left intact.
After reading all of this, I can truly say that I am not "cult material". Neither is our kaballa friend.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
TYVM:):D
I am so onboard with you
Actually some of us here are NOT closed mind. Some of us DO understand the Bible but evidently can not make others understand what their minds are closed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
Religion is not the answer.
Calculating logic in your own reasoning no matter how spiritual it seems is not the complete answer.
Knowing God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit IS the answer.
No help, you are right. I know God he lives in my, I meditate to tap into his endless light of love. I love jesus I believe he came to reunite and bring jews and gentiles together and to teach us how to live and treat each other. Knowing god,holy spirit and jesus is great but feeling their presence in your life and changing you ways to emulate the life of christ is a different issue. I also find that most people who refer to themselves a member of organized religion, really hide behind the title and really don't do much more than that, meaning they really make a minimal effort to find God within themselves and trying to connect to the soul within.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0help4u
The only difference that I can see from me and mainstream Christians is that I don't see jesus as my lord and saviour, I see myself as the author of my destiny and all that I need in this life to draw near to God is found within me and not the church. To me there is only one God the creator.
Like I always say being in a garage does not make you a car nor a mechanic.
Going to church does not make you a Christian.
Drug dealers and the Mafia will tell you they are Christian because they sit in Church ever Sunday and/or their mama & grandma told them they were Christian all their life.
I have seen people on this board who call themselves Christians and maybe I have question it from some of their answers. But there are MANY on this board that DO know what Christianity is all about. They have really great knowledge of the Lord and they back up their beliefs with the only real thing they can... The word of God. I'd rather pick up the bible and listen to what God has to say and know for sure that I am doing the right thing. It isn't about coming to him in some spiritual experience. I mean NO disrespect at all when I asked this question but I am curious as to how you connect with God? Is there some guidelines you use? Do you use a Bible? And what do you do with Jesus who is the Christ? YOu say you love him but he died for you and you say you are your own savior. I guess I just don't know how you approach the LORD knowing that you reject his sacrifice he made for you. How does it all work?Quote:
Originally Posted by lighterrr
K classy here is how I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I don't believe that jesus christ is the son of God. I believe and truly love jesus and try to emulate the life he led, by loving thy neighbour as thyselves. My biggest problem with jesus is the title the church and bible has given to him as the messiah the gate keeper to god the creator.
I don't think you need Jesus to get to God when our creator has created all human beings in his image, God lives in all of us we are all Gods within our own rights.
When I make contact with the creator. I do it through meditation & fasting and reading the zohar, which is really an explanation of the bible and the laws of the universe and how they apply to its inhabitants. I try to commute my mind, body and soul to center myself so that I may draw nearer to the awesome light of the creator. Even jesus himself fasted and often meditated to draw near to God:). Now I am nowhere as advanced and may never reach the level of enlightenment as some of the great patriots of the bible such as moses, Abraham and of course jesus they had such an intimate relationship with God, their souls where so elevated, to have had such a 1 on 1 interaction with the creator.
Now this spiritual belief has worked very well for me, I am proud to say that I don't belong to any organized religion and proud of it.:D
I agree with De Maria, ebaines and others so far.
As example about circumcision.
It did apply to the Jews but does not apply to the gentiles for they are not bound by the Jewish law.
Jesus did away with some of that old law but not those that He mentioned such as the Ten Commandments.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Dare81
You have made an excellent point.
I have noticed that tendency often expressed by those who are opposed to or dislike organized religion.
But it is not exclusive.
Many of we humans seem to feel or think that we are better then or more superior to others who do not believe as we do.
It works both ways.
In cases like that humility is often laking.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I would never say that I am better than anyone, and if my post gave you that impression I apologize. What I am trying to communicate is that I found my peace and calling in this life when I left the church and denounced christianity. That is all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare81
lighterrr,
To each as he/she wants to believe...
I see that you are interested in the Kabbalah.
So am I.
I believe that Jesus Christ is the Tree of Life of the Kabbalah.
Peace and Kindness,
Fred (arcura)
Ty fred same to youQuote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I was reading this thread and came across quite valuable and interesting information. While reading, one thing popped out and I got curious to know:-
How do we know that someone has a closed mind and how is it that the person who is telling other, does not has a closed mind himself ?
(Romans 12:3) (Eph 4:7)(Eph 4:16)Quote:
Originally Posted by Triund
Scripture says Christ gives each according to the measure of HIS will and love. So what is revealed to one may not be revealed to another. Each are to serve according to what they hear in Christ. = (RIGHTEOUSNESS) And we are to watch carefully to the end of every word. This makes it pretty individual as chosen by God. The vine is Christ and the only way is Christ. HIS sheep hear HIS voice. Christ walked by every letter of HIS Father's will. And we NOW walk as HE walked and in HIM. . .
One day everyone will be judge by the words they speak (Matthew 12:36)
And that is why it is written that prophecy of the scripture is not of private interpretation. Because those who have been gifted to whatever measure Christ has determined, will gain that knowledge by the HOLY SPIRIT in HIS GLORY!
2 Peter 1:2 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Without Christ we can do nothing.
I don't see how this scripture answers the question. In your own words please.:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
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