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Originally Posted by I Newton

Thank you Adam.

I agree with you, at least I think I do.

It seems that you are saying that God Yahweh is theFather and God Yeshua is the Son.

Yahweh existed first.
Yahweh created Yeshua.
As Yeshua is of the same 'substance' as Yahweh than Yeshua is equal.

Of this I agree and is plainly seen by reading the Bible.

Yeshua cannot and could not have survived without Yahweh and so Yahweh is superior to Yeshua.

Of this I agree and is plainly seen by reading the Bible.

If you are saying that Yahweh IS Yehsua and Yeshua IS Yahweh and thereby Jesus is actually his own Father ... I do not agree.

BUT I do not think you are saying this, so I would ahve to say I agree with you totally.

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I Newton, yes we agree.
I say that God יהוה (YHWH)gave birth ( as you probably mean by saying created)to His Son , the Word who incarnated as ישוע (Yeshua) HaMoshiacha, Jesus The Christ.
Two different persons and no, the Father is not the Son.
The Son has the Father's name as my son carries my name, but me and my son are two different persons , in the image of my Creator and Father, the Great Yah and Father of Yeshua HaMoshiacha, my Savior Jesus The Christ!

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Originally Posted by paraclete

Hi Newton you cannot understand this using human logic.
Scripture tells us Christ is the lamb slain before the beginning of the world so on a spiritual level Yehweh, Jesus and the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning. Read John.

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I have to ask this...
Does God have a beginning? Clearly no, He has not, He is beyond time, He created time. So what kind of a beginning is this ? No doubt, this has to do with our beginning and not God's.
God gave birth to His Son before the beginning, so both the Father and the Son are beyond the beginning, they are both eternal, out of time and space.
God gave birth to His Son and wanted to give Him everything, but most of all He wanted to give Him a bride in His image and likeness. But The Father knew that we, although made in His and His Son's image, would fall , so He said ( in my words ) to His Son, '' My beloved Son, the only way for you to have a bride in your image and likeness is for you to incarnate and die for her. Do you accept this? '' And the Son accepted that before anything else happened. He got slained before the foundation of the world and this is His amazing obedience that saved us.

Stop the attacks Newton God is not responsible for the acts of misguided persons

Let us hear HIS voice as HIS sheep

John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

We also are not to judge the world but we are to discern from right and wrong.
Christ said in Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division

This division was shown in scripture many different ways in lands, tribes, and people. But the division that stands out in our Saviour Christ Jesus, is the division between righteousness and sin.

Those that are asleep have fallen, they have been beguiled, that is why Christ told his disciple to stay awake. In otherwords don't be weak, find the strenght in holding stedfast. The meaning for being a good watchman, and not to permit the division into the house.
Most important is being aware that Christ said what takes place with His sheep. Christ was clear to say HIS sheep hear HIS voice. And there was a division discovered and shown in that spoken truth. (John 10:19) Some people just do not see, they are asleep, not seeing a red flag in teaching that are spoken but NOT by the voice of Christ.

My sheep hear My voice! (John 10:27)

Who do you follow? It is your choice but don't fall asleep..

Note the date of this thread January 2009, it can be closed if we continue to post in response or discussion. Same true of most of the threads listed according the warning that I have been told previously.

sndbay.
As long as some folks are confused about the divinity of the Holy Ghost and the Trinity of God Almighty I'll continue to try to help them.
To me it is more than a discussion, it is in answer to questions of confusion or misleading information.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I never said anything about God being responsible for the murders that religions of man commit.

I do not see how anyone can get the idea that I was blaming God for churches setting people on fire.

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay.
As long as some folks are confused about the divinity of the Holy Ghost and the Trinity of God Almighty I'll continue to try to help them.
To me it is more than a discussion, it is in answer to questions of confusion or misleading information.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred I happen to agree with you, but I too felt that way about another thread and was told previously by Fr_Chuck that I was not to reply by posting on a thread that were out dated. That my reply would be deleted or removed. Which it was! Twice! And that thread was only 3 months old.
We also saw that as the reason for closing, "Are the 10 Commandments still valid today?"
I don't understand why the icon doesn't indicate the rule however, Fr_Chuck told me not to argue this point.

I Newton,
I'm pleased that you did not say that.
Fred

Then why did paraclete try to deflect the sins of the church and make out it is God's fault?

If the church sinned it is obviously not the true church that Jesus established, because God is definitely not to blame for what the RCC did.

I Newton,
Have you forgotten that The Church is full if human beings who do sin occasionally.
It is sad that some people mistakenly think that The Church sinned when it reality some members did.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I find ity sad that Catholic blame fellow Catholics for what the church teaches.

This is the tactic your church teaches you so you and your fellow blind believers take the blame for what the church does.

I Newton,
As I said before so not blame The Church for the errors made buy some of it's members.
Please quit bashing The Church for something you obviously do not understand.
Many people do the same as you do.
They blame The Church for what they THING it does or stand for, or teaches, because they do not understand it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred