Ask Me Help Desk - Repentace for Homosexual

Quote:

Originally Posted by neverme

But why is it so wrong? Just because the bible says so?....

For us, there's not a "just because" before the Bible. We believe the Bible is God's Word. Therefore we obey.

Here's one of the relevant Bible verses.

1 Corinthians 6:8-10
8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. 9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Here, St. Paul explains that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God. He goes on to define "unrighteous" as "fornicators" and "effeminate" among others. Homosexuals and bi-sexuals fall under these categories. Fornicating means sex outside of marriage. And effeminate in this context means homosexual.

Bi-sexual behavior is a form of homosexual behavior.

Why is it a form of unrighteousness? Because God revealed a plan of salvation from the beginning. One of the parts of His plan include:

Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

Therefore, a man cleaving to a man or a woman cleaving to a woman are forms of unrighteousness from which we must repent with the firm resolution never to commit the sin again.

In order for you to believe this, first you must have faith and love of God. Or at least a fear of eternal consequences.

Sincerely,

Fr Chuck,
I agree with you 100 percent on that.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

No loving yourself is far from what saves you, it may make you feel good but there are billions of happy unsaved people in the world.
Actually in fact this attitude of if it feels good do it, is what has made society as lost as it is.

Oops! I meant to say DISagree.:)

cozyk.
I STRONGLY agree with Fr. Chuck
Peace and kindness,
Fred

There is nothing wrong with homosexual activity if it is between two consenting adults. The church is old and out of date with modern times and should update themselves-Everything is a sin in the catholic church and look at some of what they turn out... It, is not a sin to love another regardless of sexuality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

No loving yourself is far from what saves you, it may make you feel good but there are billions of happy unsaved people in the world.
Actually in fact this attitude of if it feels good do it, is what has made society as lost as it is.

Bugs me the way christians throw the word "save" around like it's a given that we are "not saved". I know they believe it since it's in the bible. I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate. The ego likes nothing better than to say my way is better than your way. Be true to your authentic self. Try to live above your ego and follow the natural inclination to goodness that lives in your heart.
If you truly believe with your heart, soul, and gut, that you are doing nothing wrong, then you aren't. What makes this society lost is that people are searching for happiness "out there" somewhere when like Dorothy (Wiz of Oz) you had it the whole time. Be true to your core beliefs and your conscience will tell you the truth. That inner voice you hear is God.
He has your back if you just let him. Now and always.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

Bugs me the way christians throw the word "save" around like it's a given that we are "not saved". I know they believe it since it's in the bible. I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate. The ego likes nothing better than to say my way is better than your way. Be true to your authentic self. Try to live above your ego and follow the natural inclination to goodness that lives in your heart.
If you truly believe with your heart, soul, and gut, that you are doing nothing wrong, then you aren't. What makes this society lost is that people are searching for happiness "out there" somewhere when like Dorothy (Wiz of Oz) you had it the whole time. Be true to your core beliefs and your conscience will tell you the truth. That inner voice you hear is God.
He has your back if you just let him. Now and always.

What a contradiction of statements here.
First you say "I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate."
Then you say "That inner voice you hear is God. "
So what is it that you believe in? God or yourself?
You cannot follow two masters. Either you believe in God and the Bible as the inspired word of God or you don't. There is no in between ground on this subject.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

What a contradiction of statements here.
First you say "I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate."
Then you say "That inner voice you hear is God. "
So what is it that you believe in? God or yourself?
You cannot follow two masters. Either you believe in God and the Bible as the inspired word of God or you don't. There is no in between ground on this subject.

That is most assuredly not a contradiction. Why is their no in between ground? Why do you have to accept "God and the Bible as the inspired word of God"? You mean you can't believe in God and dismiss the Bible? You can't have a personal God? I didn't realize there were restrictions.

If, when this country began, there were two distinct, equally powerful religions equally involved in setting up our laws, one Christian and one promoting a gay lifestyle, then the issue of fighting for gay civil rights would not exist. If one of the many editors and translators of the Bible had left out the parts condemning homosexuality, there would be no discussion here. It would be a non-issue.

The Bible specifically says that homosexuality is a sin. It also says that eating shellfish will not be tolerated. There are far more shellfish-eating Christians than homosexual Christians, so why don't we focus on the majority of sinners?

Because that is what the bible says. You choice to believe it or not. There is but one true God There are not many gods like the Romans or the Greeks or even the Egyptians believed. What I am reading from your comments is that you believe in an inner god (many gods) because if as you are trying to say were true, then your inner god would not be big enough for me too, so I would have to have my own inner god. If you are truly seeking the face of God, then a study of the bible would help you understand that there is but ONE TRUE GOD not many.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

Because that is what the bible says. You choice to believe it or not. There is but one true God There are not many gods like the Romans or the Greeks or even the Egyptians believed. What I am reading from your comments is that you believe in an inner god (many gods) because if as you are trying to say were true, then your inner god would not be big enough for me too, so I would have to have my own inner god. If you are truly seeking the face of God, then a study of the bible would help you understand that there is but ONE TRUE GOD not many.

So your reasoning is, "Believe the Bible because it says to believe it". If that's good enough for you, OK.

But don't try to tell the asker of the question or cozyk that someone can't experience a personal relationship with God without ever having seen a Bible. Job didn't get to read the Scriptures, but he shared quite an interesting relationship with God. He had faith, and had no choice but to follow his "inner voice" or whatever you want to call it. If God exists, and God speaks to you, you better hope you believe God, and don't dismiss what God says if it happens to contradict the Bible.

If you had read the Bible much you would understand the reasoning behind my statements. God exists I believe as do all of the Christian faiths believe. God gave us free will to accept or reject his teachings. If you choose to reject them that is your free will, just like believing in many gods. But that is not what or how the bible teaches, so yes I do believe the bible.
Someone long ago far wiser than myself once said, "when in doubt, doubt the doubt".

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

If you had read the Bible much you would understand the reasoning behind my statements. God exists I believe as do all of the Christian faiths believe. God gave us free will to accept or reject his teachings. If you choose to reject them that is your free will, just like believing in many gods. But that is not what or how the bible teaches, so yes I do believe the bible.
Someone long ago far wiser than myself once said, "when in doubt, doubt the doubt".

Ah, but there's the rub. Why do you assume I haven't read or studied the Bible? Fact is I have spent many hours in classes at the two churches I attended in my youth in Bible study courses. I just reached a different conclusion than you did. Please don't make assumptions about my background just because I disagree with you.

As for your "When in doubt" quote, I don't think I like that one either. It seems to be saying to me, "If you already believe in something, don't question it". That doesn't seem wise to me at all.

OK, I accept where you are coming from. But wouldn't it have been easier to simply state that you were raised in church but have since decided that religion is not for you as the church teaches it? Instead of getting into a now 6 part discussion with me.
We disagree and will continue to disagree on the Bible and God.
Thanks for the discussion.

No, because my being raised in church and simply disagreeing with you does not impact the falsehood of your assertion:

"What a contradiction of statements here.
First you say "I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate."
Then you say "That inner voice you hear is God. " ... Either you believe in God and the Bible as the inspired word of God or you don't.

I have shown that based on your own holy book, Job had no knowledge of Christianity or the Scriptures as we know them, yet felt a connection with God. You claimed that you can't know God unless you know the Bible as well, and by the Bible's own stories, that is intellectually dishonest. I know a lot of Christians who would be surprised to learn that they aren't Christians because they don't believe the entirety of the Bible.

And if you give that impression to the person who asked the question, it might cause them to turn away from Christianity if they feel that there is no room for them. There are some sects and denominations who consider themselves Christian that also don't condemn homosexuality. It is this person's right to know that. I didn't come here to fight you, I came here to help someone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

What a contradiction of statements here.
First you say "I happen to believe the bible is just one of many "game plans " (religions) for the human race to segregate."
Then you say "That inner voice you hear is God. "
So what is it that you believe in? God or yourself?
You cannot follow two masters. Either you believe in God and the Bible as the inspired word of God or you don't. There is no in between ground on this subject.

I was waiting on you to jump in. What contradiction? I said the bible was one of the game plans, I didn't say it was MY game plan. I certainly do believe the inner voice is God. I believe God is in the awareness, the observer of my form and mind. I never said I wasGod, I said God was within me. It's very comforting to know that God is with me on this journey. Guess what? He is in you too. Let go of all that dogma long enough to recognize him.:)

Geckobellie
That is your opinion.
It most certainly is not mine.
To me and many others homosexual activity is a filthy, repulsive practice.

To a Christian, and remember we are under the Christianity threads, the bible is the main game plan. And expect to a few fringe groups it is the main and really only plan. Some groups may have other written material explaining their view points ( most do actually) but the bible is the main plan.

And for a Christian it is the only plan that leads to salvation, there are 100's of other plans but none that save. This is the Christian view point.

Now some groups have come to accept homosexuality as permitted in the last 50 years or so. Sadly I would say this is merely their wanting the donation dollar and preaching what people want to hear more than being bibical. There is no way you can take the bible and show that homosexuality is not a sin, now it is no worst sin or no better sin than others, it is just a sin. And I am talking about the acts, the lifestyle, not any personal feelings. A man may want to have sex with every women he meets, this is also a sin and is not allowed
Sin is not what we want or how we feel or if man thinks it should be or should not be, it is the written word of God. Those that try and make it say it is not a sin, merely play with words to even a layman it is obvoius.
So to have feelings, no we all have temptations of some sort, it is the actions we do that show where are hearts are at.

Just calling on Christ and even calling him Lord does not really make you a Christian, it may by the government rules in the US, but even the bible tells us that many who call him Lord he will not know.
We are known in our actions and in our lifes we live.

But to me, I personally condemn and consider those groups that do not follow the bible as not really Christian, the ECUSA for me has long ago left the Christian faith and it has for many of its members who leave by the 1000's each year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

I was waiting on you to jump in. What contradiction? I said the bible was one of the game plans, I didn't say it was MY game plan. I certainly do believe the inner voice is God. I believe God is in the awareness, the observer of my form and mind. I never said I wasGod, I said God was within me. It's very comforting to know that God is with me on this journey. Guess what? He is in you too. Let go of all that dogma long enough to recognize him.:)

And the debate rages on over what the Bible says or does not say or how people interpret it. Guess it will all be answered on judgment day for those that believe.

Fr_Chuck, and 450donn.
I agree.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

And the debate rages on over what the Bible says or does not say or how people interpret it. Guess it will all be answered on judgment day for those that believe.

Just so you know, you don't have to wait until judgment day to be with God. Every minute is judgment day. It's not a then, it's a now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

To me and many others homosexual activity is a filthy, repulsive practice.

And yet your priests engage in it with innocent children.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

And yet your priests engage in it with innocent children.

Somehow I very much doubt that you intended to equate homosexuality and pedophilia.

Sin is not what we want or how we feel or if man thinks it should be or should not be, it is the written word of God. Those that try and make it say it is not a sin, merely play with words to even a layman it is obvoius.

Personally, I'm not trying to twist it to say what I want it to say. I just dis-regard it all together. The bible is not my idol.

So to have feelings, no we all have temptations of some sort, it is the actions we do that show where are hearts are at.

Are you gay? I think it is more that what they think, it's what they are. Until you are gay and have that temptation you can't judge.

Just calling on Christ and even calling him Lord does not really make you a Christian, it may by the government rules in the US, but even the bible tells us that many who call him Lord he will not know.
We are known in our actions and in our lifes we live.

What has government rules got to do with anything? I'm confused.

But to me, I personally condemn and consider those groups that do not follow the bible as not really Christian, the ECUSA for me has long ago left the Christian faith and it has for many of its members who leave by the 1000's each year.[/QUOTE]

Could it be that the thousands are becoming more enlightened.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Somehow I very much doubt that you intended to equate homosexuality and pedophilia.

No, it was a very unfortunate combination of the two that happened (and may still be happening) in the churches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

No, it was a very unfortunate combination of the two that happened (and may still be happening) in the churches.

Yup.

cozyk
Thanks for your opinion on that.
I do believe there will be a judgment day with Jesus as the judge.
The days we love now and how we live them contribute to that judgment.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The 1000's leaving the church are getting enlightened, they are leaving the very liberal church for that of one with moral values.

Fr_Chuck,
Thank God for those who go and move to the moral Church.
I just wish and hope that the small percentage of ultra liberals in it who support pro-choice and same sex marriage would become moral.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Repentance is the same for the liberal, as the intolerant. We each are responsible for our own life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

Repentance is the same for the liberal, as the intolerant. We each are responsible for our own life.

And the sins are the same, some merey wish not to admit activities they like are the sin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450donn

Because that is what the bible says. You choice to believe it or not. There is but one true God There are not many gods like the Romans or the Greeks or even the Egyptians believed. What I am reading from your comments is that you believe in an inner god (many gods) because if as you are trying to say were true, then your inner god would not be big enough for me too, so I would have to have my own inner god. If you are truly seeking the face of God, then a study of the bible would help you understand that there is but ONE TRUE GOD not many.

Do you not believe that the one true God is big, mighty, and powerful enough to be the inner God to every soul on earth. I think he is powerful enough to spread himself around and still give you his undivided attention. So yes, you have your own inner God too. That is my idea of the "One True God".

Please describe your idea of the one true God. Is he actually sitting on a throne and over seeing the goings on down here. Does he have a score card for everyone, where he makes his judgments? People are offering up prayers and he is making decisions on how to answer them?
I'm really curious about how people that have such a "flesh like" idea of God really perceive him. Please share with us your perception.

[QUOTE=Fr_Chuck;1484055]

Chuck, not long after I posted that, I realized I had understood your last statement to be saying the opposite of what I initially thought it meant. Does that make sense?:confused:

talaniman.
Very true.
We all ARE responsible for what we do.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

God says it's wrong. Do you think it's wrong? If you do, stop doing it, ask for forgiveness, and don't do it again. Then you'll be fine. If you don't think it's wrong, then how can you ever repent for something you and God disagree on?

nike 1,
Good question,
Fred

Your sins are between you, and your God, not your neighbor. Who cares what the neighbors think?

Donn, I am truly curious what your mental image of God looks like.
Actually, this goes out to anyone and everyone. I don't have an image because I feel it goes beyond physical properties. It's more of a state of consciousness.

talaniman,
I agree.
NK.

CozyK.
I think the image of God we are created in id NOT a physical one for God is a spirit.
Although we do have a God created spirit we also have other attributes that God has such as the ability to imagine, image things created things, love, and have other emotions.
We also have the ability to create life though we do it through procreation whilr God id the author of life.
Before He was begotten a man through the womb of Mary Jesus was also a spirit called The Word of God.
That is the way I see it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Don't worry, be happy may not "save" you, but do any of us need saving? The Creator put us here with choices such as not murdering. Yet are those who commit murder punished by God? If death is not something to fear, but a ticket to be with God, then people like Hitler are to be thanked.

Sexuality is as natural as eating. Choosing not to harm one another is more sensible than rape. But desiring those of your own sex is not a "sin." If you choose to feel guilty about it, okay. If someone causes fear for you because of the way the Creator made you, well, that doesn't seem sensible to me.

The Bible, or making judgements based on what is written there is legal. Being homosexual is legal too. I don't see the sense in telling you that you are "wrong" and must repent to fit my idea of what you "should" be. If certain Christians have their way, the legality of what other consenting adult a person sleeps with will be put to a vote. This vote will exclude those who would vote nay because they are wrong.