Actually, forbidding to eat meat IS in the Bible...

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


The Catholic Church is a cult. It made up the trinity, which isn't in the Bible. It made up baptism in the titles (around 326 ad) which no baptism recorded in the bible was EVER done in the titles it was done in the name of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38)
They made up baby baptism and baptism by sprinkling, and limbo, and Mary being deified (because in order to convert pagans they needed to compromise, because the concept of not having a goddess for forign, same as trinity, the concept of only ONE God was foreign)
The List goes on and on.

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

the Catholic Church is a cult. It made up the trinity, which isnt in the Bible.

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Actually, I am not Catholic, but I can vouch for the fact that the trinity is taught throughout the Bible starting in Genesis.

zsuzsanna,
Yes I think I know the scripture you are referring to.
But it does NOT prove beyond a doubt that Luke and John Mark did not meet Jesus,
In fact many believe that Mark was the one who ran away without his clothes when the soldiers came to arrest Jesus.
Paul did meet Jesus after he rose from the dead and Jesus converted him from Saul the Christian abuser to becoming Paul the Christian.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Leidenschaftlich,
I can assure you that the Catholic Church is not a cult as you claim.
The bible definitely shows from throughout the both Old and New Testaments that the trinity IS a fact.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

Leidenschaftlich,
I can assure you that the Catholic Church is not a cult as you claim.
The bible definitely shows from throughout the both Old and New Testaments that the trinity IS a fact.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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The doctrine of the trinity directly states that jesus is God, the father is God, the spirit is God, but Jesus is not the father, the father is not the spirit, and the spirit is not the son.

The Bible says in john 4 24 that God is a spirit. Luke 24 39 says a spirit hath not flesh and bones. But Jesus had flesh and bones.

1 tim 3 16 says GOD was manifest (made visible, or clearly seen) in the flesh.
God - Who is a spirit, made himself a body to sacrifice it on the cross.
God is holy Joshua 24 19. So if God is holy and is a spirit, he must be the holy spirit.

John 8:24 Jesus said if you don't believe I am my Father, you will die in your sins.

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

The doctrine of the trinity directly states that jesus is God, the father is God, the spirit is God, but Jesus is not the father, the father is not the spirit, and the spirit is not the son.

The Bible says in john 4 24 that God is a spirit. Luke 24 39 says a spirit hath not flesh and bones. But Jesus had flesh and bones.

1 tim 3 16 says GOD was manifest (made visible, or clearly seen) in the flesh.
God - Who is a spirit, made himself a body to sacrifice it on the cross.
God is holy Joshua 24 19. So if God is holy and is a spirit, he must be the holy spirit.

John 8:24 Jesus said if you dont believe I am my Father, you will die in your sins.

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Let's deal with the last first. You added to that verse. What it says is:

John 8:24
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
NKJV

It says the exact opposite of what you claim. Who is the "He" that you must believe that He is?

John 8:21-24
21 Then Jesus said to them again, "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come." 22 So the Jews said, "Will He kill Himself, because He says, 'Where I go you cannot come'?" 23 And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
NKJV

Jesus is from above. He is God spoken of in 1 Tim 3:16. You must accept Jesus as God according to this passage.

BTW, who are the three persons in Isiah 48:16-17?

Isa 48:16-17
16 "Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit
Have sent Me."

17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
"I am the LORD your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
NKJV

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Let's deal with the last first. You added to that verse. What it says is:

John 8:24
24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."
NKJV

It says the exact opposite of what you claim. Who is the "He" that you must believe that He is?

John 8:21-24
21 Then Jesus said to them again, "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come." 22 So the Jews said, "Will He kill Himself, because He says, 'Where I go you cannot come'?" 23 And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world.
NKJV

Jesus is from above. he is God spoken of in 1 Tim 3:16. You must accept Jesus as God according to this passage.

BTW, who are the three persons in Isiah 48:16-17?

Isa 48:16-17
16 "Come near to Me, hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
From the time that it was, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit
Have sent Me."

17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,
The Holy One of Israel:
"I am the LORD your God,
Who teaches you to profit,
Who leads you by the way you should go.
NKJV

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In v. 16 "and his" was added for translation purposes, which means a more literal translation is "the lord God - his spirit - hath sent me.


And in John if you read back to v. 19 Jesus was being asked where his Father is. HE is referring to the father

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr.
I must agree with Tj3 on that.
God the Father IS spirit so is the Holy Spirit who emanates from The Father and the Son.
Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God, so the bible says.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

In v. 16 "and his" was added for translation purposes, which means a more literal translation is "the lord God - his spirit - hath sent me.

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I noten that you ignored the fact that three persons are mentioned.

BTW, we know that the Holy Spirts and the father are two persons. For example:

Luke 3:22
22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, "You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased."
NKJV

Note that all three persons of the trinity are here, two are visible, one is not.

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And in John if you read back to v. 19 Jesus was being asked where his Father is. HE is referring to the father

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And Jesus gave that answer and concluded that Q&A in verse 19. The context is clear that we have two persons of the trinity spoken of here:

John 8:21-26
21 Then Jesus said to them again, "I am going away, and you will seek Me, and will die in your sin. Where I go you cannot come." 22 So the Jews said, "Will He kill Himself, because He says, 'Where I go you cannot come'?" 23 And He said to them, "You are from beneath; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." 25 Then they said to Him, "Who are You?" And Jesus said to them, "Just what I have been saying to you from the beginning. 26 I have many things to say and to judge concerning you, but He who sent Me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I heard from Him."
NKJV

The same question in Is 48 and John 8 - who is sent and who is the sender?

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr
Again I must agree with Tj3.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

The Spirit (God) sent the flesh. The flesh isn't God.

Look, I may be ridiculed for this, I know, because I have ridiculed others for it before. The entirety of understanding that there is only one God, and that the trinity is a falsehood, comes by revelation... it can't be shown by a person to a person. Especially when most peoples entire religious life the trinity doctrine is subtly taught. I used to be a staunch believer of trinity, but one day I was in prayer and asked God to show me, if it was a lie, show me. It hit me like a ton of bricks.
My mind had been wrapped around the idea that there was a separation in God, when in fact I was taking 3 titles (out of many in the Bible) and making 3 persons. I am a mother, a wife, and a daughter, but it would be absurd to think that I am 3.

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

The Spirit (God) sent the flesh. The flesh isn't God.

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God was manifest in the flesh - 1 Tim 3:16

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

Look, I may be ridiculed for this, I know, because I have ridiculed others for it before. The entirety of understanding that there is only one God, and that the trinity is a falsehood, comes by revelation... it can't be shown by a person to a person.

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There is only one God and He has revealed Himself as a trinity in scripture. God says not to go beyond what is written (1 Cor 4:6-7). If you have a revelation which is outside of, and/or in contradiction to scripture, then it is not of God. If it is of God, then it will be validated by what scripture says as Paul's teachings were validated by scripture (Acts 17:10-11).

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I am a mother, a wife, and a daughter, but it would be absurd to think that I am 3.

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You are body, soul and spirit.

Think of this way, each time we have read of three.. For within the evidence of that number three, God has intended for us to find identify His divine intervention..
The fundamentals were created by the "third day", and in respect to that three days there after on the sixth day, God's creation was complete. Each day though played it's evident part in the final step which all was by the intervention of God.

The mind should be triggered at this point in seeing Our Father, The Son, and Holy Ghost as three yet One

It is deception to leave one out. Each Are Indentified

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
Co 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Well we could say Jesus is not the son, he was just a good person? That means we go back to the law, and only Jews can worship him, not Gentiles, and we are still under Adam's sin.
We could say there is no holy ghost, which would mean that after Peter and John and Paul died there was no spirit passed on by them through the laying on of hands, it all ended many centuries ago and Jesus died for nothing?
Even in Genesis we are told Wisdom, or if you will Jesus created as God's master worker. Why say so if God actually did it himself?
If as in your example Jesus and God are the same thing, why was Mary needed? She didn't give birth to God too. When Jesus came up out of the water after His baptism by John the spirit rested on Him and he went on to preach. Who or what he was before that is not as important as who He became, just as it is with each of us.
Susanna remember her, anyone? An ultra member has answered more letters than a senior. It runs new, junior, full, senior, ultra.

Paul did meet Jesus on the road to Damascus. Now Paul could have just said, I saw Jesus, and how would we know it was true or not? But Paul had not just faith but works to back up his claims. Faith without works is dead.

Where in the Bible does it ever say that God is 3 yet one? It doesn't. And why wasn't the trinity ever mentioned until the 3rd century? I can name you endless scriptures that say that God is one. Not 3. one.
In fact the greatest commandment is Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One God. For some reason that's always left out, and Sunday school teachers and pastors only mention the second half of the greatest commandment, Love The Lord your God...
Just because God manifested himself (made himself visible) in 3 ways at the baptism, doesn't mean there is 3. Its like ice in water. Water being relatively invisible has some ice cubes in it. The ice is just the water made visible. You can fill it with as many cubes as you want... its still water.

1 John 5: 6-7 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is Truth. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

Col 2:2-5 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ; In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words. For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

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Originally Posted by Leidenschaftlich für Wahr

Where in the Bible does it ever say that God is 3 yet one?

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It is taught throughout scripture. Answer this question - who is the Redeemer?

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And why wasn't the trinity ever mentioned until the 3rd century?

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Do you mean the word? Many words that we use today to describe doctrine and other things we know to be true came later. The doctrine itself though is found throughout scripture.

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I can name you endless scriptures that say that God is one. Not 3. one.
In fact the greatest commandment is Hear O Israel the Lord your God is One God.

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Do you know that the Hebrew word used in this verse means a unity - "One" made up of more than one?

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Just because God manifested himself (made himself visible)

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It did not say that. It says that God manifested Himself in the flesh - not just made Himself visible.

For the sake of staying clear of deception, I feel it is important to recognize that each created idenitity was done by the intervention of God. Each are evident for good reason...
There can come a day when antichrist comes to decieve, and he can claim to be the one god with all glory.
We need to remember what is written. And Christ always spoke of The Father, and He spoke of the sending the Holy Spirit. Each evident identity is intervention by God for reason. And we as children of God should keep each indentity in awareness, and follow Christ.

Daniel 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

The whole theology is based upon Jesus being created as a perfect man to replace Adam who was imperfect and caused us to be condemned in the first place by original sin. If Jesus was simply God, sort of in disguise, of course he could have remained faithful to himself, he created the whole world after all, a few years as a man would have been no big deal. Do you think when Jesus was growing up as an infant or a small child he was somehow also secretly running the entire universe, sort of like Superman disguised as Clark Kent? And if He indeed was, why was He in agony in the garden of Gethsemane, asking God to take this cup from Him? If He had no doubts about His ability to remain faithful to God even unto death, that He had super powers and indeed couldn't actually die but would go back to being God, that wouldn't have been a sacrifice.

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Originally Posted by wildandblue

The whole theology is based upon Jesus being created as a perfect man to replace Adam who was imperfect and caused us to be condemned in the first place by original sin. If Jesus was simply God, sort of in disguise, of course he could have remained faithful to himself, he created the whole world after all, a few years as a man would have been no big deal. Do you think when Jesus was growing up as an infant or a small child he was somehow also secretly running the entire universe, sort of like Superman disguised as Clark Kent? And if He indeed was, why was He in agony in the garden of Gethsemane, asking God to take this cup from Him? If He had no doubts about His ability to remain faithful to God even unto death, that He had super powers and indeed couldn't actually die but would go back to being God, that wouldn't have been a sacrifice.

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Don't forget that God, before He came to earth as a man, took that into consideration. When Jesus came to earth, He chose to live completely as a man, and to submit Himself fully to God and put aside His glory as God until He was resurrected.

Phil 2:5-9
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.
NKJV

When He was about to die, Jesus prayed for the return of the glory that He shared with God the Father from eternity.

John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
NKJV

sndbay ,
YES, we most always be on guard against the devil and his deception.
Faithfulness to God will help us do that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred