cogs,
Yes it has been called "The natural law of man."
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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cogs,
Yes it has been called "The natural law of man."
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Cogs,
Faith in the work of Jesus Christ plus NOTHING! That is the process my friend... :)
classyT,
Plus doing what he said to do.
Fred
I don't know about a law of man, or belief in jesus being salvation alone.
Surely, these things are evident in those that are being sanctified, but sanctification must occur. We can say we believe in jesus, and still be immersed in sin. We can do good naturally, yet still be unclean to god.
Like where I posted in another thread, what about these verses?
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock:
And,
1Cr 6:9 Or know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with men,
1Cr 6:10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God.
And if you, being born into a Christian family, were told that Hinduism is the only way to heaven/paradise, what would you do? Would you change what has been part of your family for generations and go against what you believe to be true?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Wondergirl,
AHHH! You are forgetting something that is very important... the HOLY SPIRIT! He is the one that opens up the eyes and clears the ears. Truth and Light will always overcome darkness. She has the same opportunity that you did. Before you were saved.. you were lost and on your way to hell... she isn't ANY more lost right now. Give her the Gospel and let the Holy Spirit do HIS job.
Hey, take a look at the nation of Israel, as a nation God blinded them from the truth because they rejected the Messiah. But in his GRACE and MERCY individual jews come to Jesus everyday!
IN the natural it looks impossible.. but it is always a miracle when someone believes!
I was never "lost" nor was I on my way to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Manisha will no more give up her Hinduism for something unintelligible like Christianity than you will your Christianity for Hinduism.
Cogs and Arcura,
I appreciate your wisdom but I disagree with you both... it is faith plus NUTTIN!
Cogs, you gottta remember when Peter was talking to the 3000.. he didn't know anything about the church and thought the Lord was coming to set up his Kingdom within DAYS. They were practicing jews and YES.. repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus was Exactly how it had to be... that would be RADICAL and denouncing Judism and all that they had known. But he had NO IDEA that the gentiles were going to be grafted in... he didn't understand the plan yet.. that was revealed to the apostle Paul. Read his epistles for salvation.
Wondergirl,
You were never lost and on your way to hell? Ahhh OK maybe I assumed you were saved but apparently you don't understand salvation. Cause you were BORN unsaved!
I disagree with you about your friend... Is anything to hard for the LORD?
"Faith without works is dead."Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
What makes us unsaved when we're born?Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Wondergirl,
Who said that? Who is He talking to? What is he talking about. Got to understand this when reading the word or you get confused!
And was baptized soon after birth.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
James 2:20.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
I am definitely not confused.
Cogs,
Great question! What makes you unsaved when you are born is a little thing called SIN. WE are born with it... kinda like having a disease past on from generation to generation. It is something that we have to deal with as we grow up and start to understand it. This is why the Lord said we had to be born again. Receive a NEW nature because the old one is corrupt.
Now having said that, does this mean I think babies who die go to hell. NO I do NOT! They are not accountable and I believe the Lord who is just and merciful will take care of all the little ones.
how do we deal with sin? Isn't sin connected with our salvation?
if we're born into sin, what changes in us, that we're able to
attain salvation? What is sin?
Wondergirl,
Baptisim never saved a soul!
And what Christian church are you part of that you disbelieve the Bible on baptism?
We're off topic here, so let's get back to the OP's questions, methinks.
Cogs,
I know you know the answer to this question... we deal with it by recognizing that we are lost on our way to hell, sinners, enemies of God. THEN we ask the Lord Jesus to forgive us our sin and cleanse us from all of our unrighteousness. Those are the steps to salvation.. once one has accepted Jesus as their savior... then they should be baptized because the LORD ask us to. It does NOT have anything to do with salvation.. it is a outward appearance of a inward change in our lives.
Wondergirl,
Baptism isn't going to save anyone! Jesus blood does. I didn't say you shouldn't be baptized... in fact in obedience to the LORD you should!
One last thing and then we should stop because we are off thread. I KNOW you know where it came from... but do you understand that James is a little Jewish epistle steeped in the law written to the JEWS. If you want to understand salvation and faith, you need to read Paul's epistles. And for the record... Faith without works IS DEAD.. it just isn't null and void!
Classyt, of course I know the answers, probably to every question I ask on here. But, if god is going to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, is it in name only, or as you stated, do we receive a 'new nature'? The new nature surely is something that sets us on the path to salvation. Jesus sent his spirit to us for a very good reason.
A person can only say no (not yes) to God. The accepting is solely the work of the Holy Spirit. To claim otherwise is work righteousness.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Cogs.. of course we get the Holy Spriit the minute we believe.. ephesians says we were SEALED .
Classyt what good is the holy spirit, if we're not being transformed? And how does the spirit do this in us? Who is the holy spirit? Again, is it in word only that we receive this spirit?
Wondergirl,
Well, we are giving a free will, the Holy Spirit will work on us... he will give us many opportunities to come but if we continue to say no, he will leave us alone.
We can say yes or no... WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME... you have a choice.. we all have a choice.
Cogs,
I received the Holy Spirit the second I believed. I am transformed by reading and meditating on the WORD. I am convicted by him too. Do I believe in speaking in tongues.. yep I do. But I got all of the Holy Spirit the day I believed. Is that what you mean?
I'll save you the headache... lol... the sprit is the living god. His word in us tells us what we're doing wrong (sin). We try to stop that, with his power. Through our purification, we are on our way to heaven, not just assenting to a belief in him. Otherwise the holy spirit could have just stayed in heaven, patting us on the head for our agreement that jesus died for our sins.
And if you don't see how my previous post could be true, then why did jesus reject those who did works in his name? Didn't they believe in him?
Who did he reject? You mean when they came and said Lord Lord.. haven't we done this and that and then he said depart I never knew you? If that is what you are referring to, I think he made himself clear.. they may have had a head knowledge of him but Jesus said... I NEVER knew you... never... never... don't know you. In other words.. there was no reality or relationship.
Classyt, yes, a relationship. Okay. He said, '... ye that work iniquity'. These do-gooders he basically called people who sin. That's us. Lol. We're the workers of iniquity.
Yes, the difference is... he KNOWS ME! Big difference... he can't say that he doesn't because we have a relationship.. note that he didn't say... I use to know you but you blew it with all your evil ways... he says I NEVER knew you.. gotta love the LORD!
In what way does he know us?
He knows every single one of us. We're back to the baby thing. We're born with sin. We do not know god. But, we're on our way if we have the spirit of purification sanctifying us for the kingdom of heaven.
Oh good gravy!. (you know what I'm going to say) I am in CHRIST... he is IN ME! I talk to him every day... a million times. I am washed in his blood, I am HIS and NO man shall pluck me out of his hands. He will NEVER leave me or forsake me. That is how he knows ME.
You are not washed (esp in blood, yuk). Not yet. Neither am I. the holy spirit has not yet finished his work in us.
Cogs,
Talk to me like I am two.. or a blonde.. ha! What are you saying to me?
But classyt, as a christian, I love you! Really. I'll let you in on a website that took me all my life to find (sounds dramatic, but true).
The Way to Righteousness
Well not really washed in it but Jesus shed it for me and cleansed me... from all my sin. My work isn't going to be done until he removes me from this world. But I beg to differ.. I am cleansed by his blood. The blood of jesus christ his son cleanses us from all sin.
OK.. I briefly went to it.. I will have to look at it tomorrow when I am not so tired.you think that we can become like Jesus here on earth and never sin again? I agree with the goal! I believe that it is a false teaching... if this were true and we no longer had the sin nature.. we wouldn't die my friend. We wouldn't get cancer, colds. And I like to think sin is what is causing my wrinkles and jelly belly ( well that and cheese cake) ha. When we get our new bodies then we will not have a sin nature.. until then I appreicate the goal. But I think we will have this nature until we die. ( but I will read it more careful tomorrow)
The Pew Forum Survey is on this exact topic. 2/3rds. Of main stream Christianity has now changed their opinion about Jesus being the only way to Salvation. I wrote the following press release at prlog.
Pew Forum Survey
You can find the Pew Forum Survey Here. Pew Forum Survey
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