Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay ,
I eagerly await the time when Satan will be bound in hell and no longer can tempt us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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As do I, Fred.. It is so important that we listen this time and believe in what the Word offers as Our Father Truth to His children. We will be that servant, a servant in putting satan down, and being overcomes from the deception. Mark 13:34 [For the Son of man is] as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to His servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

The Word is Christ, and in Him who is the sign of the sun as foretold in scripture.

sndbay,
Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred a man's heart can not offer truth by what you have said, because the truth speaks of no man knowing when "That Day" will come.

Deu4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Matthew 24:35-36 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but My Words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only.

And know also that you have spoken of a temple being built. Tell me where it is written that this is needed? Who was it that asked that this temple being built? For God has made it clear in scripture Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of His testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The example of a temple being built by hands was destroyed, and the only other temple on earth was brought to us by God.
Mark 14:58 We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.

Please speak to me Words of Spiritual Truth, as in love to all mankind is comforted.

sndbay,
Perhaps you did not see ot but that is what I said.
Scripture tells us that Christ will return when we least expect it.
More people expect the return to be in the near future now than ever before.
All of the prophesies have yet to be fulfilled.
That is why I believe the parousia will be still quite a ways into the future.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
Perhaps you did not see ot but that is what I said.
Scripture tells us that Christ will return when we least expect it.
More people expect the return to be in the near future now than ever before.
All of the prophesies have yet to be fulfilled.
That is why I believe the parousia will be still quite a ways into the future.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred, I love The Word of God, I believe in the Spiritual Truth from Our Father.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

I was replying to your perious post

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Since the second coming is a long way into the future I think that there are few, if any, alive today who will see it happen.

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I would darn not suggest what you have suggested, for it is NOT Our Father's truth. (Matthew 24:35-36)

I do understand that the Day of the Lord is spoken of in several scriptures. II Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. & II Peter 3:10

So please understand Fred, for your sake, and all that read these posts, love them enough to tell of Our Fathers Truth. Pray that somehow the seeds planted in Truth will open ears that will hear .. God's Will be done. And scripture speaks of praying that The Day will not come during the winter months or on the sabbath. Matthew 24:20 Mark 13:18

I believe in the literal return of Jesus Christ ( Zec 14:4 Act 1:9-14 ) when He shall take the throne of David ( Isaiah 9:6-7 Luke 1:32-33) and rule on earth for the prophetic thousand years known as the millenium ( Revelation 20:4; Zec 14:9 ).

However satan will come first II Thessalonians 2:9

sndbay ,
I stand by the truth of the bible. OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay ,
I stand by the truth of the bible. OK?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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It does show your obedience to Our Father.. and permits a garment of righteousness without shame according to what is written.

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

sndbay,
I don't understand what you are saying.
I do my best to obey God.
How can you suggest that I do not?
Fred.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

sndbay,
I don't understand what you are saying.
I do my best to obey God.
How can you suggest that I do not?
Fred.

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Fred: I refer the quote I had posted, and it says you do obey.. Posted #47

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Originally Posted by Sndbay

It does show your obedience to Our Father.. and permits a garment of righteousness without shame according to what is written.

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sndbay.
Thanks for the clarification.
Fred

WE are SOOO in the end times it ain't even funny. Now how did I know my good friend Acura doesn't think it is even close and my other good friend Sndbay wouldn't believe in the rapture.. hee hee.

I'm telling you guys... when we sit at the wedding feast supper... you two guys best sit far away from me.. because I'm going to throw food at you and scream... I was right.. I was right.. you were wrong.. nanna nanna boo boo. ( hey, no one has ever accused me of maturity) ha

Acura, What prophecy needs to be fulfilled before the rapture takes place? Or wait.. do you believe in the rapture?

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Originally Posted by ashley0716

Have any of you heard the news clip about the blood moons and lunar eclipses in 2015 marking the second coming of Christ, meaning the rapture would have to take place THIS year, THIS month, most probably on Rosh Hashana (feast of the trumpets) My sister in law and her husband, a minister, are really trying to minister to everyone they can because they believe we ARE in the end times. Does anyone have any evidence to the contrary. I am a Christian and know I'm going to heaven, but I am not ready to leave this earth yet....Thanks!

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I absolutely believe we are in the end times! Everything points to it. You know, before May 14, 1948 there was no Israel for almost 2000 years. Pretty amazing. You can't have end times without Israel... the Lord spoke the parable of the fig tree ( the fig tree represents Israel:

Mathew 24:32-34 Now learn the parable of the fig tree; when his branch is yet tender and putteth forth leaves yeknow that summer is nigh: so likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you THIS generation shall not pass, till al these things be fulfilled.

Well that fig tree became a nation after 2000 years of not existing.. that in and of itself is a miracle... he says when you see it bloom you know summer is near... so it is like my coming it will be near EVEN AT THE DOOR and he goes on to say that this generation wouldn't pass until this was fulfilled. WOW. You bet he is near... and I'm going to say this.. there isn't anything here other than loved ones that I care enough about... I want to see people saved but I say... even so come Lord Jesus.

classyT ,
I believe we are in the end of times but NOT the rapture which is bogus theology.
The bible says Jesus is coming back soon. (That's in God's time not ours)
It is much sooner now than it was 2000 years ago.
I have given my reasons I think that the second coming is still 50 or more years into the future.
To many people expect it for it to happen now.
And I did mention the prophesies such as the third temple must be built on temple mount before Jesus returns.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura,
Oh yes, I agree but that takes place after the rapture... not bogus my friend... nope it will happen!

ClasyyT.
Mope, sorry.
There will be no rapture as said by LaHaye in his books.
It is bogus theology.
You'll see that.
Jesus returns but once.
Fred

Arcura,

k. ;) no argument... sometimes even I get sidk of it.. ha! :)

P.S. you are wrong.

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Originally Posted by arcura

clasyyT.
Mope, sorry.
There will be no rapture as said by LaHaye in his books.
It is bogus theology.
You'll see that.
Jesus returns but once.
Fred

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Fred sometimes you can only hope and pray that some will hear the voice of God. Each should read this thread from the beginning and refer all that has been posted to prove the false teaching concerning the rapture.

God's Peace to you Fred

SNDBAY,

You know.. you sound a little weary there. Are you?

This is going to shock the puddin out of you but I reckon I will say it anyway... ever considered your TRUTH was WRONG? I mean... geesh. Greater minds than mine think there will be a litteral rapture. Starting with the Apostle Paul!!

You and Arcura don't have the market cornered here on "truth". I personally believe you are wrong... on many subjects. I'm sorry but that statement you wrote just hit me the wrong way I guess.

So in closing I will say this... I hope and pray that some will actually pick up the word and read if for themselves to decide if the rapture is bogus or not.

Suggest starting with post # 8 with what the word has said
II Thessalonians 2:3-9 where is says Let no man deceive you

And also let's read what Paul says about knowledge of men..

Galations 1:10-12 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Speical note : Ezekiel 13:20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make [them] fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, [even] the souls that ye hunt to make [them] fly.

Well then I rest my case.. because if you read what I said you will notice I said the rapture teaching started with... who? THE APOSTLE PAUL.

I don't get your special note. I am not trying to be rude. I know the word sndbay.. not only do I know it.. I rightly divide AND understand it. But this last verse you wrote... seems RANDOM. (Please.. no one could tie that verse in to our conversation.) So if you are going to throw special notes in there.. with random verses... I got to let you know up front... you got me beat.you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay deeper in the word than I am. So you may want to explain it like I am a two year old because... it ain't clickin..

Snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I believe you are RIGHT... Acura! He ain't going to come back to earth but ONE more time. The rapture isn't the return of Christ.. it is US meeting him in the air! WHOO HOO! ( I get a new body... and I am going to look FAB!)

NOT that I don't already look darn good now. HA! Oh come on! You got to have a personailty in there somewheres.

I'm not sure which person wanted to know why the temple had to be built before the end of the tribulation, but the Bible states that halfway through (3 1/2 years) the tribulation, the antichrist will go sit in the temple, making claims to be THE Christ. Right now there is no temple but a year ago, the Sanhedron (the 71 rabbi's) reconvened to lay out plans and gather materials for the rebuilding of the Temple of Jerusalem. I'm not sure which book I read it in.

Ash,

I wasn't me. Yes that is very true. Amazing don't you think that Israel wasn't even in exsistance for nearly 2000 years and then... BOOM May 14, 1948 it is back. What a miracle.. oh yes we are in the end times! No way around it.

classyT,
The air and the clouds ARE part of what makes up this earth.
There will be no rapture as described in the last days books.
It will be many years before the temple is rebuilt.
The Muslims are now in control of Temple Mount and they are not about to relinquish it back to the original owners and time soon.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Ahhh! But how quickly things change.. what do you think of this.. European Union Commission Chief and the French President are meeting with President Bush this weekend. What is wild is that the EU leaders have issued French President, Nicolas Sarkozy, a mandate to press for a financial overhaul. And, (hold on to your seat), Europe wants to present a Blueprint for a new Worldwide Currency System!

Pretty interesting my friend... if you know anything about end times at all! ( years away... I think NOT!) remember Israel wasn't even a nation for 2000 years then boom May 14, 1948 and low and behold we got Israel back on the map.

Muslim temple? Please... IS ANYTHING TO HARD FOR THE LORD?

classyT,
If the construction of the third temple was to begin next year it would take several years for it to be built.
The coming tribulations would slow that down considerably.
Who knows how long the tribulations will take.
WWI and WWII took from 1814 to 1949.
So as I figure the second coming is not in my moral life time. I'm 75 years old.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Hmm? Well the tribulation will take 7 years according to Daniel and Revelation. Why do you think it would take several years to build the temple?

"The Word"

Revelation 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

Sndbay,

That is describing those that or stung by what looked to be a scorpion ( John the Revelator had only things he understood back in the first century to compare it to. ) That has NOTHING and I mean NOTHING with how long the tribulation is going to be.

Take note of the WOE WOE WOE because you can follow each in scripture.

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound.

The First WOE

Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; [and], behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

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Originally Posted by arcura

snfbay,
I believe what the bible says.
There will be but one return of Christ.
No secret return. No rapture.
The bible is right.
Rapture supports are in error.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Fred, agree there is no such Rapture in "The Word".. Man came up with the doctrine.

Rapture came from a child's visions, Margaret McDonald born in 1815 who lived in Port Glasgow, Scotland during the beginning years of the Dispensationalism movement under John Nelson Darby. McDonald was fifteen years old in 1830 when she claimed to be a "prophetess." She would often go into trances and record visions of the end of the world. Not much is known about Margaret McDonald the individual, but some have attempted to prove she perhaps had an influence on the early development of Dispensationalism.

classyT
Check out how long it took to build it way back then
AND what the construction rules were.
Cedars from Lebanon and no iron tools, etc, are a part of it all.
Just gathering all the materials and building the icons demanded would take quite awhile.
Even today with our technology I think it would take 15 to 25 years to rebuild the temple completely.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything I need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!! See I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. Sorry... :(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!. but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like I am TWO... it is easy... try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, I am starting to realize is the problem.

Arcura,

From the things that I have read and heard, the orthodoxed Jews have been gathering the materials for years... just fyi.

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Originally Posted by classyT

SNDBAY,

YOU ERR! If you knew ANYTHING at all about JOHN NELSON DARBY you would know that he wouldn't endorse anyone that claimed to be a prophetess!!! According to the Apostle PAUL, everything i need to know about the word of God is IN the Word of God. John Darby didn't go for modern day prophets. I grew up under his teachings.

He wrote about the rapture because it is IN THE WORD. I believe the first century church understood the concept that Paul wrote about in Thesssalonians. AND YES, oh YES, there WILL be a rapture!!!

But really arguing over this is foolish. And Paul warns us not to argue the Word. So I won't. BUT I COULD!!!! see I can actually USE MY OWN words to explain verses. I don't just quote scripture randomly. sorry ....:(

OK, I can feel another RANDOM verse coming. Go for it!!..but PLEASE PLEASE explain why you post it. ( in regular english, talk like i am TWO.....it is easy...try it, you'll like it) :) Unless of course you can't which lately, i am starting to realize is the problem.

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Margaret MacDonald reportedly had a PROPHETIC END-TIME VISION which gained credibility and spread

Margaret McDonald said the rapture would only take those that were filled with the Holy Spirit; and Norton claimed that only those that had been sealed with the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands would be raptured. Definitely confusion ensued.

Scripture tells us "God is not the author of confusion" (I Cor. 14:33).

NO RAPTURE, JUST MUCH TRIBULATION

Was Job raptured out of his time of tribulation (testing)? NO
Was Joseph raptured out of the pit or prison? NO
Was Daniel raptured out of the lion's den? NO
Was King David raptured out of all his tribulation? NO
Exodus 7:18 through 12:30 records the Israelites were IN Egypt for all ten plagues of God's wrath.
Was Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego raptured out of the firery furnace? NO
Was Jesus or any of the Apostles raptured out of their persecution? NO
Was Paul raptured out of all his tribulations (2 Corithians 11:23-27)? NO

LOL SND<

Was JOB part of the Church? NO and by the way, there will be no tribulation like this. There have been hard trials in many lives... but see the difference here... GOD IS POURING OUT HIS WRATH UPON THE EARTH! Not just a little trial. And NO, we are His BRIDE... we aren't going through it.

FYI... if it an't in the word.. I don't care what some prophetess said. John Darby didn't get the info from HER.. he got it from Paul!

How could Jesus be raptured? Get real. Why would he be? He was sent to die. Paul called his afflictions "light". They weren't of course but it wasn't GOD'S WRATH. Wow! Don't you understand the difference? Let me put some light on this for you... those millions of Jews that were killed in the holocaust?. well that is going to seem like a Sunday school picnic compared to what is going to happen. The WRATH will be poured out on ALL those who have rejected Jesus... and that isn't me.

classyT,
Bleive me and the boble please.
There will be no Rapture as it is being taught.
But if not wait and see that it will not happen.
There will be just one return of Christ.
Read the book "The Rapture Trap".
It and other books on that subject disprove the rapture.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura,

Can't believe you.. I believe the BIBLE. But you are right.. no since in arguing about it.. we will find out.


By the way... who wrote "the rapture trap'?

And while I have your ear? Do you eat Pork. I know you are cathoic... I think they can eat it. Am I right.