Homesexuals will go to hell if they have sex relationship with the same sex. Rome1:23-32Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
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Homesexuals will go to hell if they have sex relationship with the same sex. Rome1:23-32Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin_082500
Sorry, I think judgemental people may be ahead of them in line.
Awful thing to say without any loving advice.
I just answer his question: if is there a bible verse saying homosexual go to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Allheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin_082500
I was wrong to have got upset, but I do worry the effect it could have on someone who just reads it and is not guided with love, the way God would do.
I do apologize to you - just realize there are people with feelings on the otherside of the monitor.
May your day be sunny.
2 Pet 3:9Quote:
Originally Posted by marvin_082500
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
(KJV)
"come unto the knowledge of the truth" includes the concept of "repentence". God forgives sin, but for that to happen there has to be repentance of that sin and a willingness to stop that sin.
It has been well said that attraction to the same sex is not sin until it is acted upon, any more that the temptation to steal is not sin unless the intent is there to carry it out.
Free advice is just that; free. If you really want to be right with God, accept what He says and ask Him to give you the strength to become what He has in mind for you, and that is that you eventually become like His Son.
If there were scriptures proving that gays ARE accepted in the bible, don't you think God would be contradicting himself, since you've already seen the proof of gays, lesbians etc being a gross sin? Of course God loves you, that's the whole reason why he gave his precious son as a sacrifice for us ALL. The best way we can all show God that we love him in return is by fighting off our sinful tendencies to be found favorable in His eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian24
Sure, people say that being gay is not a choice, that it is in their genetic make-up, but this is also true of some alcoholics but with the right motivation, they can avoid drinking and lead a clean, sober life.
I truly believe that homosexuality can be avoided as proof of an American actor who changed his 'full homosexual" ways and became a minister of God (I have just finished reading this account) shows.
The question I have for you though, is are you really willing to change to SHOW God how appreciative you are of his ransom sacrifice? Many are clearly not.
As I stated in a early post and then directed it differently in another post
While it is a sin, those that have accepted Christ are no differnent than any other sinner, They are still saved, but are a sinner. Now this is where the big fight normally comes, as with any sin, we should try and stop the sin, jesus as he said to other sinners in the bible when he forgave them, that they are forgiven but to go and sin no more.
And with all sin in our life, we are to admit the sin, to repent of that sin and to ask God to forgive us. So those are normally the issues that the gays I know have, they wish God to re-write the bible so they can remain in their sin and in fact have that sin declared a preferred way of life.
C'mon, your comparing homosexuality to a disease? I don't care who the person is it is always his choice to pick up a bottle. When he becomes addicted it becomes a disease. In most cases with homosexuals, they know early on they like the same sex. It's who they are. They are born that way. You are never born an alcoholic. Asking them to be straight would be like asking me to be gay. I know this is a christian board and I know you feel like your giving this guy good advice, but I cannot sit here and let this guy think there is something wrong with him. When he starts trying to be something he's not, that's when he's got a problem. When you can prove the bible was inspired by god and not man, and that it is without error then you can tell him being gay is a sin. Until then Brian, you just follow your heart and be who you are.Quote:
that it is in their genetic make-up, but this is also true of some alcoholics but with the right motivation, they can avoid drinking and lead a clean, sober life.
Not born an alcoholic but born with a gene that leans them toward the likeliness of becoming one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Is it OK then for people who are 'born with a short fuse' to emotionally and physically abuse others because that's just the way they are?
Imperfection... it's a real bumma, but it doesn't mean to say we let loose with all our "born with it" bad traits and call them acceptable.
Ultimately it is a gays choice to behave the way they do. You say you enjoy reading the bible, so why not read up on the ones that WERE living this way yet CHANGED to please God (1 Cor 6:9-11)... and while you're at it, why don't you prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that the bible is just a history book with no relevance for today. :)
What does the bible say about telephones and cars and computers and airplanes and satellites?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparbyfar
I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, PC, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
These things are forever changing but the bible remains the same.
I would rather put my faith in something solid like God's word than "treasures on earth" that are only temporary.
Wouldn't you put your faith in a guidebook that's practical rather than one that's just full of empty 'words?'
From what I can gather, thousands of years ago people who worshipped the true God had laws and statutes they stuck to as a protection. Down through the ages though, many have turned away from these commandments and... gee! What a surprise, today we have sheer mayhem! Why? Because the practical advice given to them by their God has for the most part been ignored and they think they know better than their creator.
Anyway, sorry Brian, :rolleyes: getting a bit off the subject at hand aren't we.
That's how many of us feel about the bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparbyfar
Indeed : the bible neither teaches you how to benefit your life fully. It only projects a single view on life. The Christian view.Quote:
Previously Posted by Moparbyfar : I have not been able to find a single telephone, car, PC, airplane or satellite yet that can teach me how to benefit my life fully.
Reaction Posted by NeedKarma : That's how many of us feel about the bible.
Good point!
:rolleyes:
Okey, so here is a tip, if you don't like the "Christian View" don't read the Bible and don't dedicate your free time to reading what Christians Have to say on Christian Forums. Get a life basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Credendovidis
Then I guess you're not a practical person, for eg: the bible speaks of putting an end to all wars. Sound practical to you? If we all learnt to get along and stop trying to kill each other wouldn't this be practical? The bible explains how these things will happen (Dan 2:44; Psa 37:10,11)Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
If you simply don't believe then I feel sorry for you, because far better off are we when buying a car/washing machine/cell phone or computer, to use the manual than try and use them the way WE THINK they should be used... we have a manual for life in the form of Gods Word. But now, thanks to the millions not using it properly or not at all, the breakdown in society is widespread.
Tell me, what is it that you find hard to accept about the bible? You can put this up in a separate thread if you wish, but curiosity has got me.
Airplanes, cars and all of that is mentioned, it is mentioned in the lust of thy neighbors property, it is mentioned when they talk about building up your treasure in heaven not on earth.. It shows you how to live a life of peace of spirit, the important issues of life. You want a drivers manual for a car, go to the DMV, if you want to know how to live your life in a happy manner, you read the bible. But I am glad you do agree that if you don't live by God's word, there is mayhem, it is only by following Gods word that there will be order and peace in society.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparbyfar
How do you know it is not a "disease" some bio-chemical make up, some gene that has changed, ** I am not saying it is, the issue is that no one can as for as I know what cuases it. What if we do though research find out that it is caused by something that could be treated, what then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
*** not saying we should or should not, but throwing it out
No, it's against the law. A person like that belongs in prison or a mental hospital. Last I checked it is not against the law to be gay.Quote:
Is it OK then for people who are 'born with a short fuse' to emotionally and physically abuse others because that's just the way they are?
Yes, they have a choice to live a lie, or be who they are.Quote:
Ultimately it is a gays choice to behave the way they do.
Actually it's not even a good history book. It's a great read if your interested in the beliefs and culture, but that's about it.Quote:
and while you're at it, why don't you prove BEYOND ALL DOUBT that the bible is just a history book with no relevance for today
As far as relevance for today? This is a whole other topic. I won't mind explaining why I know the Bible was written by man and only man though.
It would take a book to list all of the reasons but I will only name a few. It should only take one to discredit the whole thing but I know one would not be good enough.
2 kings
2:23 And he(Elisha) went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
I have often wondered what this story is supposed to mean. Every time I have almost thought of a great meaning for this story I just couldn't help but think about those poor parents who lost their kids. Of course we know this story isn't true. No loving, caring God would ever do something like that. Which means there probably isn't much of a chance he had anything to do with the writing of this story either.
Another good read is Leviticus. You want to know about stuff that doesn't apply to today? Read that book. I will post a few verses from that book that doesn't sound like something from an all loving and caring God.
Leviticus 20
20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
20:11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
20:12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
Whoops, I didn't mean to hit post
Here is the rest of that post.
Anyway that's just a few. The book of Leviticus is filled with these horrible man made laws.
I find it hard to believe any loving, caring god would have anything to do with laws such as those.
Lets shift over to the NT for 1 more. If God had anything to do with the writing of the Bible then why did someone feel the need to create fake genealogies for Jesus to David if he had no physical father? That's something that didn't even need to be done if the guy was truly a demi god. The reason is because Jesus couldn't be the Messiah unless he was from the Davidic lineage. So man(who ever actually wrote the 2 gospels with the genealogies), had to tie it up some how. Did someone order a demi god? If a perfect God had anything to do with this, there wouldn't have been such an obvious mistake. The sad thing is the 2 genealogies from these guys don't even agree with each other.
There is so much more. The point is again,, The Bible was written by man, the laws were written by man. As time changed we decided as humans that most of those rules were useless but for some reason we still try to tell ourselves that other parts of the Bible still apply or is still true.
No, the two genealogies are one from Mary and the other one from Joseph, since as his legal father under Jewish law, Jesus was and had the rights to inheritance though Joseph. Since he was not really Josephs son, this took into the consideration the Old testement of not being though that house but still tied him to it. And we have the one though Mary given. So no mistake, just your misunderstanding of what it was.
But you are right, man decided they did not need God's law, this is nothing new, man ran away from Gods law many times, and normally suffer for it.
I have heard this before, and it cannot be. For 1 if it were Mary's why have Joseph in it?Quote:
No, the two genealogies are one from Mary and the other one from Joseph,
2. If it were Mary's it still doesn't explain why they couldn't agree on the name of Joseph's father which in my opinion still makes it a bit shady.
First of course these genealogy are abridged, there are abridged with many of the early names omitted In Luke after David the lines separate to touch on both Shealtiel and Zerubbabel.
The accepted view is that Matthew gives Joseph line, and Luke Marys line.
Joseph line was needed to how jesus the legal heir to the promises of Abraham and David Amd Mary lins showing the blood line.
Mary's line was written according to Jewish usage was in her husbands name, Joseph was the "son of Heil" or son in law to Heil
Since we know Josephs father name was really Jacob (Mat 1:16)
I have a couple books on the linage but it is too late to dig them out, I am sure of course there will be PRO and NEG points on this on the web.
This is the "MOST" accepted opinin but again some scholars do not agree, but then some do not agree on any issue
I have read articles by both sides and I really do think they both have interesting ideas. The problem is, this is just a small part of the big problem I have with the whole story. I didn't want to list everything because once again I am taking something away from the question asked. I guess my point is, if God had anything to do with the writing of the Bible this is an erea I would have expected him to make sure nothing was left open for debate. I mean this is supposed to be an all knowing, powerful God right. Is this really that hard of a task?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
This has nothing to do with the original question, but - - -Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Rev 5:5
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
(KJV)
Jesus is referred to as the "root" of David. One of the descendent kings of David's line was so evil that God said no one of his descendents would ever reign as king, thus cutting off the royal line. The root of David refers to another of David's sons, Nathan by name, who was in Mary's lineage. God kept His word to David about his greater Son reigning while cutting off the royal line. Fr. Church has already explained the difference about Joseph's lineage.
THE MEANING OF 2 KINGS 2:23 -Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Elisha was the successor of Elijah the prophet, and when he was walking past these boys, they mocked and ridiculed him, not because he was bald but because they knew he was a representative of God as he was wearing Elijah's recognisable garment, and they didn't want a successor of Elijah around, so they were basically telling him in a smart-alec way to go up to heaven the same way Elijah did. This was a test of Elisha's prophetship not to mention the great disrespect shown to him as a representative of God, so in showing his approval of Elisha, when called upon, he answered by way of the two bears. This was a lesson for parents to teach their children proper respect.
Of course we would naturally feel sorry for anyone who loses their child but the same happened to the Egyptians when the 10th plague hit - another lesson for the unrighteous. All lessons. Something we can look back to and learn that by our actions we will be judged accordingly, not with bears popping out of nowhere or by us turning to a pillar of salt, but when armageddon finally arrives. God does not perform miracles now because we now have the complete bible which contains all miracles, signs, examples etc that pertain to any questions or thoughts we have about life, spirituality, death etc.
:)
Yes I understand what you guys are saying, and I would love to continue because I have a lot to say on this subject, but I would rather wait until a question came up that was more suitable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
I understand what the lesson is. I don't understand the murder. To me the mass murder overshadows anything the writer was trying to teach. The Bible is filled with these kinds of stories of mass murder and I find it hard to believe that an all knowing God didn't have a better way of teaching people. I don't mean to keep repeating myself but this is a story that wasn't even good for people back then let alone for us today. It's just a flat out horrible story. I know it didn't really happen but that makes no difference to me. It's not a nice story and one I wouldn't even let my kids read. Hell I won't even let my kids pick up a Bible because of it's content. Yet we have people like falwell(sp) complain about the Harry Potter books. You can't help but laugh sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparbyfar
Lack of 'accurate knowledge' will always confuse people, because they don't have a full understanding of God and who he really is. It's nothing to simply read something and use our own understanding in the place of Gods but it takes a lot of deep deep studying and comparing and genuine prayer - something maybe you see as a timewaster since God could not have possibly used the writers of the bible to pen his own thoughts - to get the full meaning of what God is really trying to get across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Peace out. :cool:
Murder is murder, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist or 'accurate knowledge' to understand that. I don't care if it's God doing it or not. Murder is wrong according to God(even though he had a hard time throughout the Bible keeping his own commandment) and humans. If prayer makes me see that any differently then I would commit myself because murder is murder. I would not follow a man who thinks murder is OK, so why should I follow a God who does? I find it hard to believe anyone would condone or make excuses for this kind of behavior. It kind of contradicts that God is loving and caring, don't you think?Quote:
Originally Posted by Moparbyfar
For a GOD who is eternal, this life on earth is nothing but a vapour. From an eternity perspective, the 70-95 years we have on this earth is nothing, zip, zero, nada, zilch!Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
Even though the body dies, the spirit is eternal. God gave everyone life on earth and He has the Power to take it away. So what?
Actually that view makes a lot of sense, even though it is based on belief!Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
.
But what happened to the topic "Will a gay person go to heaven?"...
.
:rolleyes:
We all have the power to take it away, doesn't make it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyT
I created(helped at least) a son and daughter, and I could never even think about killing either of them. I really don't see how that's supposed to excuse mass murder.
The way anyone interprets the Bible is IN THEIR head. You are a human being. If you leave this life at peace with yourself, you have reached "Heaven".
People must not interpret the bible, because the bible can intepret it selfs. You must search the bible to know the answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Handyman2007
This kind of denial of one's own thought process always astounds me.Quote:
Originally Posted by addaddadd
Quote:
Will a gay person go to heaven?
I honestly don't know about the after life, but I do know a personal relationship with the God of your understanding, can give you guidance, and direction, on becoming a good human being, and having a positive and productive life, while you are here on this EARTH. Because you are gay doesn't mean you are not human, or whether you're a good human, or a bad one, its completely your choice to make, no matter what others interpret, feel, or guess at. That's between you, and your God, that YOU understand. Let that very personal relationship, guide your thoughts, and actions, through this life, because in the end, none of us will be there, when you make your final peace, with The Creator of All things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
No, you do not have the right to take the life of your children because you did not give them that life or create it. You do not have the power to give life. All you did was have sex with your husband or wife and consequently a biological process created a fetus. God gave man the ability to procreate but that does not mean you "created" your children. You are just a benefactor of a biological system that God Himself created.
So no, you do not have the right to take your children's life because you didn't create them. God did. And he has the right to end the life He gave us at His WILL. If you don't like that, too bad.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:Quote:
No, you do not have the right to take the life of your children
I have read a lot of your posts and I know you are smarter than this. I didn't say I had the RIGHT to take life, I said I had the POWER to take life. We all do. No one has the RIGHT, murder is wrong. The power to take life is not reserved for the Gods. You only have to watch the evening news to know this is truth.
The fact that my kids are here is more than enough to prove otherwise. If it weren't for my wife and I, my kids would not be here.Quote:
You do not have the power to give life.
Ahhhhhh yes, it was the greatest 30 seconds of my life... lolQuote:
All you did was have sex with your husband or wife and consequently a biological process created a fetus.
Now I will be honest, I'm not much into science but I have read somewhere that humans have successfully cloned sheep? If it hasn't been done yet it won't be too long before a human is cloned. If that is the case we will have HUMANS creating LIFE. So whether it be physically or in a lab we have the power to create life.
God has no more right to end my kids life than I do. As I said, no one has the right to murder. Murder is wrong. I'm really not understanding how you or anyone else for that matter does not understand murder is wrong.Quote:
God did. And he has the right to end the life He gave us at His WILL.
It's the religious equivalent of Richard Nixon's rationale: "If the President does it, it's not illegal".Quote:
Originally Posted by Onan
anyone's who accepts Jesus Christ as ones savior ,then he or she will surely go to heaven,if he or she was a good person and a good christian too.
Jesus loves all. And moreoevr its not someone's sin if someone is a born gay. But you see is anyone pretends to be one afterwards and knows in reality that he is a man,but just becomes a gay for FUN,then I think God will punish such a person.
I think the Bible scholars knows more ,however that wwas only a view.
KEEP PRAYING AND ASK FOR FORGIVENESS !
Quote:
Originally Posted by sovaira
Bless you Sovaira, bless you for your answer. You did it, You answered the question beautifully.
None of us will be appearing before God free of sin, not one of us, but like you said, as long as we accept Jesus as our saviour and love our Heavenly Father, and do our
Humanly best to symbolic of God's love, through words then actions, then yes, we will
Be in Our Heveanly Father's loving arms.
We are human, and the Father knows this.
Bless you again.
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