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Originally Posted by Synnen

Wait wait wait... "God given right"?

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That is correct.

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YOUR god has rights in His church.

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Are you curtailing our freedom of speech? Do you claim the right to assert that God does not exist in our Public Schools and deny me the right to assert that God does exist?

Do you claim the right to live as though God does not exist in Public School and deny me the right to act as though God exists?

Do you claim the right to live according to your beliefs where ever you go and deny me the same right?

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MINE has rights in my Circle

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Yet I see atheists prominently asserting their claims in children's public school curricula.

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NEITHER has rights in a public school.

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That isn't the reality. The reality is that atheists and secular humanists have asserted themselves in Public School to the exclusion of other religions.

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If you want your kids to pray in school, send 'em to a private school. My tax dollars pay for education, not morality. Teach morals at home, please.

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The question of prayer in Public School is one thing. The question of teaching morals is another.

Morals are taught in Public School. There is no way you can be rid of moral teaching.

The question is whose morals are being taught? Are they Christian, Muslim, humanist or some other morals.

Luckily, the United States is founded on Christian principles which still dominate the moral teaching of the Public Schools. But atheists and humanists are trying to change that by making homosexuality, abortion, and other anti-Christian concepts part of the curricula.

But perhaps that is the answer. Perhaps we should all teach our children at home. It is now possible with the advent of the internet to teach children anything you want at home.

As for me, I bailed out of the Public Schools twenty years ago. I've graduated two children from our Catholic HomeSchool and I've got two in third and fifth grade respectively. It is the most wonderful experience to teach your own children and actually raise them up being your best friends.

I'll be writing more about Catholic Homeschooling on my website.
Catholic Homeschooling

It is still under construction, so bear with me:

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

That isn't the reality. The reality is that atheists and secular humanists have asserted themselves in Public School to the exclusion of other religions.

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The reality is an aim for neutrality i.e. not any religion or dogma to be endorsed by the school. It isn't that difficult to understand, it's part of the First Amendment (state-supported prayer amounts to the establishment of a religious practice and is therefore unconstitutional). No one is denying you your belief or your wish for silent prayer to yourself. God hears you and knows all that goes on in your head and He knows all your thoughts.

By the way there are limits to freedom of Speech, that whole screaming "Fire" in a crowded theater bit.

Synnen-"If you want your kids to pray in school, send 'em to a private school. My tax dollars pay for education, not morality. Teach morals at home, please. "

SDont forget that christians are also paying tax dollars so it is not only your tax dollars.FYI, there are more Christians paying their tax dollars than there are Atheist towards most public schools. People should be free to practice their beliefs no matter where they are.
I don't think Christians should have to pay for Private school just to be able to practice what they believe, other wise they should also suspend kids who try to push athiesim on other kids too. It's the same thing but there is a double standard.

I am a bit confused by some of these posts. Soldout & DeMaria, in response to Kelly's original question are your personal positions that in the U.S. there should be a specified time set aside for prayers in school for Christian based religions, all religions, or are you simply stating that children should be allowed to say Grace before a meal, or have a moment of prayer at a convenient time that won't disrupt a teaching session? I truly don't mean to offend. I am just having a difficult time figuring out what your answers are to Kelly's original question.

Practice what you want. Just remember that your prayer in public schools gets to share time with my yodeling.

WAit--where did I say that I was an atheist? I'm not, you know.

Also... I don't push my religion in schools at all. I'd just prefer that students were taught Calculus and how to read, and how to write, and MAYBE how to play an instrument rather than being taught the Lord's prayer and that the Pledge of Allegiance ALWAYS had the word "God" in it.

Frankly, I'm not pushing ANYTHING except the Christians BACK to where they belong--on equal footing with ALL other religions. THAT is why there is a separation of church and state--so that the majority cannot determine how the minority should worship.

"Christian" morals are not solely Christian, you know. Treating your neighbor with love and respect, honoring your parents and grandparents (and other family members), not killing, not cheating, not lying--Those are all pretty basic parts of just about any religion out there.

I'm not pushing atheism into schools--I'm pushing Christianity out. There is no place for formal recognition of a particular god in a secular school. If a student wants to have a silent prayer before a test, or prays out loud at their lunch table--I couldn't care less.

IF, however, you want a prayer on the loudspeaker first thing in the morning, or a prayer before a ball game, or a teacher leading a prayer in class before whatever--forget it. Pray yourself, pray at home--just don't make it a point to have organized prayer in school, unless (as I have previously said) you make it so that EVERY religion is EQUALLY recognized.

All religions are equal in this country. That's a big part of WHY this country was founded.

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Originally Posted by Synnen

WAit--where did I say that I was an atheist? I'm not, you know.

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Sorry, I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

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Also... I don't push my religion in schools at all. I'd just prefer that students were taught Calculus and how to read, and how to write, and MAYBE how to play an instrument rather than being taught the Lord's prayer and that the Pledge of Allegiance ALWAYS had the word "God" in it.

Frankly, I'm not pushing ANYTHING except the Christians BACK to where they belong--on equal footing with ALL other religions.

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But you are pushing.

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THAT is why there is a separation of church and state--so that the majority cannot determine how the minority should worship.

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But you want the minority to determine how the majority should worship? Or you want to force the majority not to worship at all?

In fact, the newest trend is not just to stop worship and prayer, but any mention of God at all.

Students Free to Thank Anybody, Except God

Monday, November 22, 2004
By Laurel Lundstrom
Fox News
FOXNews.com - Students Free to Thank Anybody, Except God - U.S. & World

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"Christian" morals are not solely Christian, you know. Treating your neighbor with love and respect, honoring your parents and grandparents (and other family members), not killing, not cheating, not lying--Those are all pretty basic parts of just about any religion out there.

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Then you shouldn't mind the Ten Commandments being taught in Public School.

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I'm not pushing atheism into schools--I'm pushing Christianity out.

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And that's better because..

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There is no place for formal recognition of a particular god in a secular school. If a student wants to have a silent prayer before a test, or prays out loud at their lunch table--I couldn't care less.

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But the law does. The law restricts private prayer to two minutes. And that is unconstitutional. We have freedom of speech, freedom of religion and freedom of conscience. Students should be free to pray and to discuss God and religion anytime they want as long as they are not disruptive.

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IF, however, you want a prayer on the loudspeaker first thing in the morning, or a prayer before a ball game, or a teacher leading a prayer in class before whatever--forget it. Pray yourself, pray at home--just don't make it a point to have organized prayer in school, unless (as I have previously said) you make it so that EVERY religion is EQUALLY recognized.

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I believe that is what I said in my first post on this subject. In fact, my statement was broader. I said that the parents of the children must agree. Therefore, that includes those who do not practice a religion.

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All religions are equal in this country. That's a big part of WHY this country was founded.

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Correct. But religions was never abolished. Nor was freedom of conscience, freedom of religion nor freedom of speech. In fact, the abolishment of prayer in Public School was done without precedent.
Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

I am a bit confused by some of these posts. Soldout & DeMaria, in response to Kelly's original question are your personal positions that in the U.S. there should be a specified time set aside for prayers in school for Christian based religions, all religions, or are you simply stating that children should be allowed to say Grace before a meal, or have a moment of prayer at a convenient time that won't disrupt a teaching session? I truly don't mean to offend. I am just having a difficult time figuring out what your answers are to Kelly's original question.

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In my opinion, schools should be extensions of the parents and the schools should not organize anything with which the parents don't agree.

I also believe that a minority should not rule over the majority. That goes against the basis of our democratic nation.

In my opinion, it is the student's constitutional right to pray and talk about God and religion when and where they want according to the Bill of Rights which guarantees free speech and freedom of religion as long as they are not disruptive.

Sincerely,

De Maria

If someone wants to pray so be it. If a group prayer is unfortunitly discouriged so be it. To ban all together is unexceptable and unamerican.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I also believe that a minority should not rule over the majority. That goes against the basis of our democratic nation.

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Hello De:

Not really. It IS the basis of our democratic nation.

The Bill of Rights gives YOU rights. YOU have them, not because you belong to the majority or the minority. YOU have them because you're an American. The majority can't take them away. They can't VOTE them out. You have them because, as Thomas Jefferson said, they're "inalienable rights".

Even if ALL 300 million people in this country decided to pass a law that contravened the Bill of Rights, and YOU were the ONLY one opposed to it, you would win - and you should.

Does that mean a minority of ONE could tell the entire 300 million majority where to stick it?? In terms of prayer in school, YOU BETCHA!

excon

If the school is a christian school then prayer is OK, but it's very important not to force prayer onto an individual as well x

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Then you shouldn't mind the Ten Commandments being taught in Public School.

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NO, the ten commandments should NOT be taught in schools. Why? Because one of the commandments is:

Do not worship any other gods

Another is:

Do not make any idols

Another is:

Do not misuse the name of god

Another is:

Keep the Sabbath holy

Those "rules" apply to christians, and christians only. They are not essential to having a civilized, functioning society like oh, I don't know, telling kids murder is wrong and listening to your parents is good. :rolleyes:

Children in school should be free to express their own faiths. If that includes them praying in private or in their own groups that should be allowed ( and really is) kids in school can have their own private prayer groups and the such.

The schools unconsitutional behavior at restricting symbols such as the star of david or the cross and others should not be allowed and people of any or no faith should be outraged by such behavior of our schools.

Also we have to be close to remember that God and Christianity is a large part of the history and heritage of the US, and that not teaching their roles can often be a loss of the true meaning of many things from the US constitution, to the building of America which was often based on some religious group

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

The schools unconsitutional behavior at restricting symbols such as the star of david or the cross and others should not be allowed and people of any or no faith should be outraged by such behavior of our schools.

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If one is going to display a cross then one should display all the markings of all religions, correct?

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Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;...

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

The schools unconsitutional behavior at restricting symbols such as the star of david or the cross and others should not be allowed and people of any or no faith should be outraged by such behavior of our schools.

Also we have to be close to remember that God and Christianity is a large part of the history and heritage of the US, and that not teaching thier roles can often be a loss of the true meaning of many things from the US constitution, to the building of America which was often based on some religious group

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If by restricting symbols you mean students wearing jewelry, etc, I agree with you. I see no reason for a school to forbid students from wearing a cross, etc. I also agree with you that Christianity is a large part of US history, and see no reason students can't learn about that history without being delivered a sermon (or someone thinking that the mention of the word "god" equates to a sermon).

Yes, I have issues with many school officials where students wearing crosses have been ordered to take them off. We normally refer this to one of the christian legal teams for action.

Was not talking about the display of crosses by the school, but displays by students for certain activities, if they do art work for the holidays, santas would be OK but a manger scene not allowed for example.

For example the "mormon wars" or even the forcing christianity on the american indians were some sad points in our history but need to be taught also as an example what happens when one is not tolerant of other religions If we don't teach our history, good and bad, we are doomed to repeat a lot of the bad.

But the fact that almost all schools were first ran by churches, all early colleges were all church schools, is just a fact, part of the history never taught.d

The fact that the Cherokee people had the first real constitution in the US and alotof the one we have can be seen in theirs. I bet almost no student ever learns this.

I figured that's what you meant, Chuck, and I agree with you. I remember reading an article about a girl (in England) who was suspended for wearing a chastity ring to school; her school has a strict "no jewelry" policy, but made exceptions for religious icons. The school said the chastity ring was not an icon for her religion, so she must take it off. Though I disagree with the ban, I agreed with the school up until this point. Then it was revealed the school was permitting Muslim female students to wear bracelets to school with no penalty. I thought it was ridiculous to enforce the rules selectively - rules should be fairly applied to everyone, otherwise there's no point in having them.

Sorry - got a little off topic there!

Ok, understood. I agree with Jillian.

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Originally Posted by excon

Hello De:

Not really. It IS the basis of our democratic nation.

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You seem to be saying that a minority may tyranize a majority, but you are wrong. This is not the American way.

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The Bill of Rights gives YOU rights. YOU have them, not because you belong to the majority or the minority.

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Exactly! The Bill of Rights protects the individual rights endowed by our Creator. The Declaration of Independence recognizes that we have a Creator.

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YOU have them because you're an American. The majority can't take them away.

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CORRECT! And the reverse is not true either. A MINORITY may not take them away from the majority.

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They can't VOTE them out. You have them because, as Thomas Jefferson said, they're "inalienable rights". Even if ALL 300 million people in this country decided to pass a law that contravened the Bill of Rights, and YOU were the ONLY one opposed to it, you would win - and you should.

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Not that I want to, but as I understand it, you can vote them out. The procedure for amending the Constitution is in the Constitution.
Constitutional Amendments - The U.S. Constitution Online - USConstitution.net

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Does that mean a minority of ONE could tell the entire 300 million majority where to stick it?? In terms of prayer in school, YOU BETCHA!

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Sorry, but that is wrong. The intent of the Founding Fathers is that individual rights be upheld and that legal decisions be made by majority vote.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

NO, the ten commandments should NOT be taught in schools. Why? Because one of the commandments is:

Do not worship any other gods

Another is:

Do not make any idols

Another is:

Do not misuse the name of god

Another is:

Keep the Sabbath holy

Those "rules" apply to christians, and christians only.

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I said taught, not forced upon. And remember, if you've been reading my messages, I believe that the parents are the ultimate teachers of their children and the schools should be extension of the parents. That means that I don't approve of children being taught anything against their parents' will.

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They are not essential to having a civilized, functioning society like oh, I don't know, telling kids murder is wrong and listening to your parents is good. :rolleyes:

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Which happen also to be Commandments. Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt honor thy father and mother. So, what, you want to teach 8 out of the 10 Commandments?

Now if I'm the parent in question and I want the Public Schools to teach the Commandments, I want them to teach the complete set. The rest of the Commandments make no sense without the first, to love God with all your heart and soul, upon which all Commandments are based.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I said taught, not forced upon. And remember, if you've been reading my messages, I believe that the parents are the ultimate teachers of their children and the schools should be extension of the parents. That means that I don't approve of children being taught anything against their parents' will.

Which happen also to be Commandments. Thou shalt not kill and thou shalt honor thy father and mother. So, what, you want to teach 8 out of the 10 Commandments?

Now if I'm the parent in question and I want the Public Schools to teach the Commandments, I want them to teach the complete set. The rest of the Commandments make no sense without the first, to love God with all your heart and soul, upon which all Commandments are based.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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De Maria, you are clearly missing the point and do not understand why religion is not taught nor does (should) it have a presence in schools.

For one, parents don't determine a school's curriculum, therefore it doesn't matter if the parents want the ten commandments taught in school or the story or Adam and Eve - it's not up to them. It's up to the school board. If you are a parent and want your child to know the ten commandments, teach them yourself. Leave the school out of it. If you don't want to teach it, send your child to church. Leave the school out of it. I'm sure you would object to your child's school teaching the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth, even though most of them consist of pretty good behaviors (such as not harming children). If you'd like to read them all, here's a link:

Eleven Rules of the Earth

I disagree that schools should be an extension of parents - I think it should be the other way around. It is up to the school to facilitate functional and informational knowledge (reading, writing, 'rithmatic) and it is up to the parents to reinforce that knowledge (helping children with homework, encouraging them to read, etc). Morality should be taught at home, not at school.

I'm well aware that listening to your parents and not killing people is part of the ten commandments, which is why I specifically referenced those points. THOSE behaviors benefit and apply to ALL not to a specific religious group. Not to mention murder is illegal and ought to be taught as a part of law or government class. The ten commandments have nothing to do with it. But if you prefer, yes, I only want those commandments taught - not ten, just two (you might want to check your math above, btw). But I don't want them called "2 of the 10 commandments" I want them to be called, "Ways to be a good person in any society on earth".

And sorry, but what kind of world do you live in that "Don't kill people" doesn't make sense without prefacing it with "Do not worship other gods"?

I would LOVE to have certain things taught in school. I know that is not realistic. So, should prayer be allowed in school?
Well, if my daughter wants to pray - then I think she should. Should she stop class to do it? No. Not in a public school.

But she is taught to say her blessing at meal times, she is taught if she is struggling or scared, to pray about it. So, if she needs to talk to God, she does. Is a big production made of it? No. She can quietly pray or just say the prayer in her head.
You can't govern what thoughts are running through someone's head.

And she does have Christian jewlery. She has a cross necklace and a ten commandments bracelet and has worn both to school. Nothing was ever said about it and I didn't think much of it until someone said something here.

NowWhat I think your daughter praying quietly or in her head is great; and it's great you recognize she should be able to do so without disturbing classtime or other students around her.

The thing about the jewelry was only made a big deal because the school has (or had, I don't know if they still do) a no-jewelry policy. I think such a policy is silly myself, and see no problem with students wearing necklaces, bracelets, etc. But, I'm not in charge of the school! :)

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

De Maria, you are clearly missing the point

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No. I understand the point perfectly. I disagree with the point you are making.

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and do not understand why religion is not taught

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I understand precisely why religion is not taught in Public School. I disagree with the arguments.

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nor does (should) it have a presence in schools.

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I believe it should be prominent again.

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For one, parents don't determine a school's curriculum,

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But they should.

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therefore it doesn't matter if the parents want the ten commandments taught in school or the story or Adam and Eve - it's not up to them. It's up to the school board. If you are a parent and want your child to know the ten commandments, teach them yourself. Leave the school out of it. If you don't want to teach it, send your child to church. Leave the school out of it. I'm sure you would object to your child's school teaching the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth, even though most of them consist of pretty good behaviors (such as not harming children). If you'd like to read them all, here's a link:

Eleven Rules of the Earth

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What we have here is a case of "straw man" argument. You build up a false case and attribute it to me and then tear it down.

I did not say and never have said that any religion should be forced on anybody. If the school which you theorize comprises Satanists and they decide to teach their children Satanism, I believe it is their right to do so.

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I disagree that schools should be an extension of parents

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And that is the true quarrel here. We are on opposite poles if that is your stance. I do not believe that my children are mine only part of the time. They are always mine whether send them to Public, private or any other type of school and the teachers should do as I say.

It is the classic case of the customer is always right. We pay for a product, the education of our children in the way we see fit. But the government, our servant, usurps our children and strips them of the values which we wish to be instilled in them.

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- I think it should be the other way around. It is up to the school to facilitate functional and informational knowledge (reading, writing, 'rithmatic) and it is up to the parents to reinforce that knowledge (helping children with homework, encouraging them to read, etc). Morality should be taught at home, not at school.

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I disagree. Parents are ultimately responsible for their children. Parents raise children in their own traditions and values. They don't want their children to become strangers to them.

Schools should be providing a servcie for the parents. Instead of usurping the parents' rights.

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I'm well aware that listening to your parents and not killing people is part of the ten commandments, which is why I specifically referenced those points. THOSE behaviors benefit and apply to ALL not to a specific religious group. Not to mention murder is illegal and ought to be taught as a part of law or government class. The ten commandments have nothing to do with it. But if you prefer, yes, I only want those commandments taught - not ten, just two (you might want to check your math above, btw). But I don't want them called "2 of the 10 commandments" I want them to be called, "Ways to be a good person in any society on earth".

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And you have the right to have your child taught the way you want. But I want my children to be taught the way I want. That is, in fact, why my wife and I teach our children at home.

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And sorry, but what kind of world do you live in that "Don't kill people" doesn't make sense without prefacing it with "Do not worship other gods"?

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I was atheist before I was Christian. I believed in abortion, euthanasia and selective killing of any type to advance the human race.

In the "dog game" it is called "culling". Have you ever heard the term, "cull the herd"?

Since these techniques seem to work with getting a better breed of animal, I figgered they would work with getting a better breed of human.

Without God, there is no reason not to kill. Your only limit is your conscience, or the lack thereof.

Sincerely,


De Maria

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I did not say and never have said that any religion should be forced on anybody. If the school which you theorize is comprised of Satanists and they decide to teach their children Satanism, I believe it is their right to do so.

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The same right is given to you: if the school you theorize comprises your denomination of christians and they decide to teach their children your brand of christianity, I believe it is their right to do so.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Parents are ultimately responsible for their children. Parents raise children in their own traditions and values. They don't want their children to become strangers to them.
Schools should be providing a servcie for the parents. Instead of usurping the parents' rights.

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On the one hand you want the schools to be partly responsible to raise your children but then you say that parents are ultimately responsible. Which is it? You and your wife cannot do this on your own as millions of others do? I don't feel that any school usurps my parental rights.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

And you have the right to have your child taught the way you want. But I want my children to be taught the way I want. That is, in fact, why my wife and I teach our children at home.

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So why not send your children to a christian school then? It would appear that your have an issue with government schooling in its entirety. You should probably start your own thread then.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Without God, there is no reason not to kill. Your only limit is your conscience, or the lack thereof.

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I have no god yet I have no inkling to kill, there are millions like me, how do you explain that?

Hello again, De Maria:

I misspoke earlier when I said you don't have a clue. You DO. I like your argument. In fact, I agree with you for the most part.

The problem is that with PUBLIC education, we can't have a jillion different schools teaching a jillion different things. The public (you) DOES have the right to say what is taught in school. They (you) do so by their local school boards.

If your public schools aren't teaching your children what YOU want them to, you have the right to take them out and home school them, just like you're doing. You also have the right to say that the schools are wrong. You also have the right to try to change them more to your liking.

But, in reality, it's the only way to run a public school system. Unless, you have something better? Let's hear it?

excon

I don't think it should be forced on children but prayers in school to some degree don't harm.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I was atheist before I was Christian. I believed in abortion, euthanasia and selective killing of any type to advance the human race.

In the "dog game" it is called "culling". Have you ever heard the term, "cull the herd"?

Since these techniques seem to work with getting a better breed of animal, I figgered they would work with getting a better breed of human.

Without God, there is no reason not to kill. Your only limit is your conscience, or the lack thereof.

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Selective killing of any type to advance the human race is not an atheistic belief - that was your own belief and one which I do not hold, nor do I know any other atheists who hold it. That belief demonstrates a lack of empathy, compassion and appreciation for others. It demonstrates a clear want for self-preservation only and in my opinion is not only disgusting, but also uncivilized. You would have thrived in Cuba where they force women to have abortions because the fetus has a genetic illness. Or perhaps you would have been an upstanding member of the Nazi party.

Without god there are plenty of reasons not to kill, my conscience is only one, and certainly not the primary one. I can't help it if when you were an atheist you had no morals. And to tell the truth, if those were your beliefs when you were an atheist, I'm glad you converted and I hope you never come back. People with those beliefs give all atheists a bad name and stregthen the (bad) argument that we have no values or morals.

Back to the school thing, I still don't think you fully realize WHY religion doesn't belong in public schools, but I'm through trying to explain it. Let's agree to disagree.

I know of more situations where people have killed in the name of their god than situations where they have killed for the lack of a god.

If THAT is your argument--Hitler was Christian. So was the Spanish Inquisition. So were the Crusades, and those who burned witches in Salem.

And you wonder why I don't want kids to learn to be Christian in a public school?

I'm glad you teach your kids at home--then they are getting EXACTLY the education you want for them, including that of religion. However--the public school system comprises MANY religions, not just Christianity. Would you want ALL of those religions taught, to the detriment of reading, writing, math, and science?

Personally, I think that the education system is lacking in THOSE subjects--kids today as high school seniors don't know as much in those areas as kids 50 years ago did at the end of 8th grade, though they do have quite a bit more knowledge in more diverse subjects (computer science, as an example). While schools should not undermine the teachings of parents, neither do they have the obligation to teach kids to pray. That's a parent's obligation.

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

The same right is given to you: if the school you theorize comprises your denomination of christians and they decide to teach their children your brand of christianity, I believe it is their right to do so.

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OK

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On the one hand you want

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Did I say, "I want"?

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the schools to be partly responsible to raise your children

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It is a fact. Schools are given the responsibility of taking care of and raising the children during school hours.

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but then you say that parents are ultimately responsible. Which is it?

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Parents should be monitoring the schools to make sure their children are getting the education they expect. When business people hire employees, they monitor them to make sure they are behaving honestly and not taking or damaging their assets. I think most parents would agree that our children are our most precious assets. We should take at least as much care to ensure that the schools are acting responsibly towards them.

Because ultimately, in the end, it is the parents who will pay for any damage done to their children.

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You and your wife cannot do this on your own as millions of others do?

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I don't understand the question. It sounds more like a statement with a question mark at the end.

The fact is, we've raised two who never set foot in public school and are raising two more.

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I don't feel that any school usurps my parental rights.

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That is wonderful for you. Apparently you are getting what you want from the school system.

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So why not send your children to a christian school then?

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We homeschool.

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It would appear that your have an issue with government schooling in its entirety.

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No. I believe public schools have their place to serve in society. I don't think they are run very well anymore.

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You should probably start your own thread then.

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No thanks. I was just answering a question.

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have no god yet I have no inkling to kill, there are millions like me, how do you explain that?

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Not all people are as evil as I was. I know that as an atheist I came to believe those things. And as a Christian, I no longer believe those things.

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Selective killing of any type to advance the human race is not an atheistic belief - that was your own belief and one which I do not hold, nor do I know any other atheists who hold it. That belief demonstrates a lack of empathy, compassion and appreciation for others. It demonstrates a clear want for self-preservation only and in my opinion is not only disgusting, but also uncivilized. You would have thrived in Cuba where they force women to have abortions because the fetus has a genetic illness. Or perhaps you would have been an upstanding member of the Nazi party.

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Two atheist regimes.

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Without god there are plenty of reasons not to kill, my conscience is only one, and certainly not the primary one. I can't help it if when you were an atheist you had no morals. And to tell the truth, if those were your beliefs when you were an atheist, I'm glad you converted and I hope you never come back. People with those beliefs give all atheists a bad name and stregthen the (bad) argument that we have no values or morals.

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Atheists give atheists a bad name.

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Back to the school thing, I still don't think you fully realize WHY religion doesn't belong in public schools, but I'm through trying to explain it. Let's agree to disagree.

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Sounds like a good idea.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Atheists give atheists a bad name.

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Comments like that must make the good christians shudder. We now know who we are dealing with. Thank you for outing yourself. And thank you for homeschooling your children.

Actually, almost all of De Maria's comments make me shudder--and I'm not Christian.

It's the intolerance and rabid opinion that everyone should be taught Christianity in public schools that scares the heck out of me.

I stand by my original answer: Unless ALL religions are taught in public schools, NONE should be.

Is it intolerance? OR is it standing for what you believe?
It seems to me that when christians stand up for what they believe in - we get label with "intolerant". Why is that?

Read my post above with the quote.

I guess I am slow today, forgive me, but do you think this poster is atheist?

Well... woa. I guess I got my answers. I'm actually really, really glad people are debating over this. Thanks to all of you, so much, for your opinions. I'm happy to know that there are people out there who stand firmly by their beliefs, whatever they might be.

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Originally Posted by NowWhat

I guess I am slow today, forgive me, but do you think this poster is atheist?

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Doesn't matter, the comment was directed at the whole group.

I think I understand what you are getting at.
Because he "targeted" the whole group - he is intolerant. Right?

Well he certainly doesn't care to be compassionate in any way.