Correction creation of isreal was after the 2nd world war
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Correction creation of isreal was after the 2nd world war
Diest the only thing I can say to you is you can not receive and/or know Christ through reasoning! It is by FAITH. If you know him like I know Him and how he has transformed my life then you would not be arguing in circles. Has taken me from death and has brought me life. He said " i came that you may have life and have it more abandantly" that verse came alive in my own life and that is all the evidence I need. I don't need to investgate fossil records and do extensive research to prove his claims. The personal encounter I have had with him is how I KNOW he is Truth and he is GOD! My God and I love him and one day I will see his face and thank him for all he has done for me.
The so-called signs Jesus gave of the end times, earthquakes, wars, famines, pestilence, have been occurring all throughout history, even long before Jesus came on the scene. Israel was not reestablished in 1946, it was May 14, 1948, & all the alleged Old Testament prophecies of a rebirth of Israel were made before or during the Babylonian captivity. The prophets did not have 1948 in mind at all, the so-called prophecies of Israels rebirth referred to the return from captivity in Babylon under the Persian king Cyrus.Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot
Well, you're right it wasn't Gabriel. It was:Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Isa 7:14
14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
(KJV)
I hardly think Isaiah's son was born of a virgin, do you? You answered not a word about any proofs of the divinity of Jesus Christ. Since the Bible is the pre-eminent book of things relating to Jesus, which one would you prefer? Josephus records facts about Jesus, and there are problbly others. The Bible record is that of eye witnesses. You parrot charges of forgeries, etc. which go back probably to when the ink was still wet on the scroll, but no one has successfully proven the Bible false. Voltaire tried and failed and someone named Ingersoll (I think) who was supposed to be such a wise atheist tried and failed, etc, et al. Do you stand by your statement that Jesus is evil? You are more political than religious in this, in that you keep coming back to some fundamentalist or right wing conspiracy. Explain why leftists of various shades of red and pink have for generations been trying to turn our republic into a socilist state and that's OK with you but now that the majority of U.S. citizens are waking up and becoming politically knowledgeable and active you scream conspiracy.
deist, I want to say something about your obvious reference to the flood of Noah. Since you don't believe the Bible, what makes you think God drowned anyone? For the benefit of others reading this I offer some thoughts about Noah's flood and the reason for it. It was not a temper tantrum. God promised a seed (son) to Eve who would crush the serpent's (Satan) head. Most of the O.T. from that point forward is a record of God keeping that promise. The Genesis record shows that by Noah's time he was the only one left with both a righteous life style and proper genealogy from Adam. The human race had been mongrelized by fallen angels, with the intent of breaking God's word. If that had been possible, the God would not be almighty. To keep the lineage of Messiah going, the civilization of that day had to be destroyed. I surely do expect some remarks about this!
Whoa, Wow. That's really... Not true. God is love. In Which there is no evil to be found.
I used a bible commentary:
Mark 14:62
"after speaking of His deity, Jesus immediately refers to His humanity, using a phrase from Daniel 7:13, which speaks of Messiah's humanity."- Jon Courson.
Actually I have no clue what that means but I thought I would add it, in case any of you guys did. What I believe he is talking about is the rapture.
Amen!
Yes! Yes!
Why do you keep saying "evil bible god"? He is love and there is on evil at all!Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
The rapture comes beofore the rebuilding of Isreal.Quote:
The so-called signs Jesus gave of the end times, earthquakes, wars, famines, pestilence, have been occurring all throughout history, even long before Jesus came on the scene. Israel was not reestablished in 1946, it was May 14, 1948, & all the alleged Old Testament prophecies of a rebirth of Israel were made before or during the Babylonian captivity. The prophets did not have 1948 in mind at all, the so-called prophecies of Israels rebirth referred to the return from captivity in Babylon under the Persian king Cyrus.
I never said Jesus was evil. I said the bible god was evil. Jesus is not God, he was just a man. Josephus only mentions Jesus twice I believe, & both instances are suspect. I'm not for communism, but the 1st century church was. The early church was neither a democracy nor a republic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
God didn't drown anyone, the true God wouldn't do that, but the bible god would. And the view that the sons of God in Genesis being fallen angels is not generally believed by the vast majority of Bible scholars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
I stand by my statement that the bible god is evil. Israel became a nation in 1948. Are you saying the rapture occurred prior to 1948 ? If so, no one would agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen2grace
I would like to point out that each of these times the signs come it is a warning for those who believe in Jesus(alaihi salaams)returns and to mend their ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
It is a sign,which necessarily does not mean that it will happen exactly as we expect or when we expect it.
It just means that we have to be always prepared for that day to know and understand the truth.
I am sure there have been many in this world who have passed away hoping to see this day and find the truth,but each of our lives are on a limited time and when the time comes we cannot be here on earth to see prophesies fulfilled.
And remember that time to the Almighty is not on our scale and He is not effected by our measurement of time.
He says the Hour will come when all will be judged and before this Jesus (alaihi salaam) will descend.
Deist, if you believe in the Almighty, why do you believe that the One you believe and we believe are two different Gods.There is only One God, and has been only One from the beginning and will be One till the end and beyond.
Instead of picking and choosing from the scriptures,why not really study them all to understand what is common in the three monotheistic faiths books and try to keep an open mind.
I know you do not believe in revealed books,but as you are already looking to prove them false why not really study them thoroughly.
Find out what is common in all of them,maybe it will help you see from a different perspective.
Sorry to all christians here if I said anything offensive,but as I do agree with you that Jesus(alaihi salaam) will descend near the end times, I just wanted to put in my two cents.
Where exactly are you getting this stuff from? Is there a website somewhere that makes these claims? Who ever said that the rapture would occur before Israel became a nation again?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
To be honest, I have been following a lot of what you have been saying and the claims that you have been making, things that you claim that the Bible says, simply cannot be substantiated by even a cursory reading of the relevant passages.
Deist: Its funny how you did not respond to my answers that talked about the way Jesus has transformed my life, you could only try to discount me on an interlectual level. That is because there is no way you can say that Jesus has not transformed lives. Mine in particular. That is the real evidence. Nothing you can say or anyone else can change my faith in Him because I have seen what he has done. If you did more research you would find out that He is Lord. If you open up you heart ask him to reveal himself to you he will. I promise you. There are over 500 witnesses of his resurection. Do you really think that many people would make that up? And if they did make it up don't you think that they would have also made up that he came back again "as he promised" a few years later just to complete their "story"? So if you are a Diest and you think there is a god just not the one in the Bible then the god you believe in is more evil because he won't even make himself known to you or to man, his creation. The old testament is filled with prophesies of the coming of the mesiah. These were written by (with historical evidence) men who lived centuaries before Christ was born. They detailed his birth place, the way he would die e.t.c long before he lived and He fulfilled all those prophesies. Isaih said long before Christ. " he was wounded for our transgressions he was bruised for our iniquites and chastised for our peace and by the stripes on his back we have been healed" and all that has been documented even in non biblical findings to have happened. So how do explain that? God is love and he love YOU diest as if you were the only man he ever created. He is calling out to you to receive him through His son Jesus whom he sent to take your place in death. God is a God of principle Holy and with out blame. He can not ignore sin because of his holyness and the only thing that removes sin is blood with out the shedding of blood there is not remmission for sin. That is why christ died as a sacrifies and through his blood we have become reconciled to God. Because of Christ we can come boldly into the presence of God because His blood has made us Rightous. We stand before GOd blameless. God loves you and it hurts him to see you discount him and call him evil. He loves you and wants to have personal relationship with him. So please diest just open your heart and let God show himself to you!Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
The changes in your life can be attributed to positive thinking. People who follow different religions have also experienced a change in life. How do you account for that ? They feel their particular religion has made them better people too.Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot
I'm not getting it from any website. Fallen2grace who is a member here said the rapture is to occur before the rebuilding of Israel. I was just asking him or her if the rapture has already occurred then ? Read all the posts before you comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
It matters not what other people of other religions or even the same religion think, feel or believe. What we as individuals think, feel and believe is our own evidence. Be it the belief in God or not. The point is that no one can refute what each of us feels to be true and correct because it is our own. Tatertot said, "That is the real evidence." And he is correct. The Bible alone is not all the evidence Christian's have. Matter of fact the Bible as we all know is not undeniable evidence. Our undeniable evidence comes from God within us revealing the Truth. This evidence cannot be refuted.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Yes that evidence can be refuted. Positive thinking can do many things to a person's life, so can faith, which is just another form of positive thinking. I can worship a cow or a tree, & if I have enough faith in it, & believe it is somehow witnessing to my spirit, that can affect all kinds of changes in my life. In fact, if I pray to the cow or the tree, I'll get just as many alleged answers to my prayers as christians get from their god.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
Also, you're saying the evidence is subjective to the individual, & not objective. It's not very good evidence if it can't be objectively verified.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
Again, it does not matter whether you think it is good enough evidence or not. The proof I see and feel is all the evidence I need to know that God exist. It's good enough for ME. Whether it is good enough for you or anyone else means nothing to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I can talk until I am blue in the face. I can explain and show you all day long how and why I believe the way I do, but if you are not open to it you will never see it. God can not show you truth if you do not want to see it. This is what tatertot was saying in his earlier post.
How many times do I have to tell you christians that I believe in a God, just not your evil bible god or the evil Muslim god.Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
Most believers have a lot of trouble discussion Christianity without being overly emotional.
Have a good weekend, deist!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
Wouldn't you get "over emotional"?
You have a good weekend too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
Positive thinking has never been shown to account for such life transformations as those that Jesus does. Positive thinking does not take the addict from the gutter and make her into a good mother with a college degree. Only Jesus is able to make such dramatic changes in lives.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
What do you belive in? What helps you get through your day? what makes it all ok so that you sleep at night? What will happen to you when you die? Do you know where you are going to spend eternity?Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
I'm not worried about eternity at all. I'm concerned with living this life. Eternity will take care of itself. If there is a heaven, it will be filled with good people whether they were Muslim, Christian, Jehovah's Witness, Agnostic, Atheist, Deist, Pantheist, or any other religion of man.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
I've noticed that the ones that are the biggest bible thumpers are the ones that abused drugs or alcohol yet the atheists never seem to have made those choices. I wonder if there's a link.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
Matt 7:13-14Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
13 "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
NKJV
John 14:5-6
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
NKJV
Daily Devotional by Max Lucado
"the One who came still comes and the One who spoke still speaks"
October 13
If people want to follow me, they must give up the things they want. They must be willing even to give up their lives to follow me.
Mark 8:34
On one side stands the crowd. Jeering. Baiting. Demanding.
On the other stands a peasant. Swollen lips. Lumpy eye. Lofty promise.
One promises acceptance, the other a cross.
One offers flesh and flash, the other offers faith.
The crowd challenges, "Follow us and fit in."
Jesus promises, "Follow me and stand out."
They promise to please. God promises to save.
God looks at you and asks, "Which will be your choice?"
A Gentle Thunder
Max Lucado
©2000 - 2007
Courtesy
Oak Hills Church
San Antonio, Texas
And NET-IMS, Inc.
“Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise. Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.”- Proverbs 19:20-21
The efforts of this world will all fail in the end. Not all will enter Heaven.
Matthew 7:13-1413 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
John 12:25
He who loves his life will lose it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
This all coming from a book that says the earth is flat, covered over with a dome, & doesn't rotate.Quote:
Originally Posted by savedsinner7
Again, you make these unjustified, unvalidated claims, and no matter whether you are shown otherwise, you keep coming back to the same claims.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Back to your original question: Let me give you short answers to both prophecies. Unfulfilled prophecies is not the same as failed prophecies. The high priest will see Jesus at whichever resurrection he is in. The Apostles didn't get to all the villages in Israel in their lifetimes because persecution scattered them over all the known world. Now how about you explaining the fulfilled prophecies that Jesus gave? Only God knows the future. Just off the top of my head without giving you a lengthy list of scripture references try these on for size. Jesus fortold: His death; the way He would be killed; that He would be betrayed by one of His Apostles; He indicatated who that would be; He fortold Peter's denial; He fortold how long He would be in the tomb; He fortold the general time and method of Peter's death; In Matthew ch. 24 He plainly said that earthquakes, famines, wars, etc were not the sign of the end, but that the gospel would be preached in all the world, which has happened and continues to happen; He fortold the destruction of Jeursalem and the Temple; He told how believers in Jerusalem could escape that destruction (they did) He said the time frame for that destruction was to be in their generation (it was); He told them that His followers would receive the Holy Ghost (they did). There! If Jesus is not God the Son, how did He know these things? And if He is not alive, how have the Penetcostals historically and currently been filled with the Holy Spirit, healed the sick, and in some instances raised the dead? You have nothing but an empty argument. I've answered your question. You're welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
All you people on the far left seem to share the same "Rosie" mentality. You have a paranoid fear of evangelical Christianity. Homeland Security is not busy protecting us from militant Christians, but militant Muslims who have openly told us that if they get their way we will either convert or die. Your paranoia is selective and hypocritial. You know all this. Christians have no plans to form totoalitarian governments, but Islam sure wants to put you under their totalitarianism! But you are not concerned about that, right? Enough of this right-wing conspiracy garbage. Get real.Quote:
Originally Posted by deist
Apparently you don't know what a firmament is in the bible, & you're not aware of the many verses in the bible that says the earth is established that it cannot move. Go back to school & learn some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Apparently you have never heard of the reconstructionists, also called the dominionists. You get real. Wake up & see reality. And while you're at it Google dominionists or reconstructionists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Galveston1
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