The four gospels do not contradict . They were written by four different men coming from different perspectives, but writing about the same Jesus.
Matthew was written to the Jews. He objective was to prove the authenticity of Christ. To prove to the Jews that Jesus was the Messiah. This is why he thought it important to have the genealogy. Mark's thing was to give a summary of His teachings.
Luke was a Gentile, he wrote with the gentile world in mind. He gospel is more about Jesus being a Savior to the gentiles, the sympathy of Christ.
John was closest to Christ. He was very contemplative, his was more a supplement to all of the gospels. His contains a lot more history and facts.
It's like having singers from four different genres sing the same song. Same song, four different styles.

Advocating hell. We're not in favor of hell or people going to hell. It's the exact opposite actually. It is not our choice whether people go to Heaven or hell...never was.

Yes it is you prawn, by believing in this rubbish! You're not forced to be a Christian you know, do you do everything your parents told you? Hell has always been the stick to get people to join up!


What you should be wondering is why someone who doesn't believe in God should go to Heaven. It's like your employer paying you for not working. Besides, if someone does not believe in God then Heaven and hell does not exist for them.

Yes, I was looking at it from a Christian point of view (for those that did not get it the first time round) And asking whether being good is valued by your God – clearly not.


Do you think we don't care? It is a sad thing that there will be many people that will go to hell, even good people. If we are doing what we are supposed to do then we will be trying to win over as many souls to Christ as we can. You do what you can and let God take care of the rest. No one could sleep at night if they dwelled on it. It's no different than dwelling on all the bad in the world...cancers, AIDS, child abuse, poverty, etc. How do you sleep at night? because you don't dwell on it.

Firstly I can sleep at night in the knowledge that I am not a bad person.

You lot however agree that innocent people should go to hell just cause they don't believe in god. What about tribes, infants etc. that have never been told about god. In your system they all go to hell! Try thinking about the points raised in this thread before blindly following someone else's thoughts.

No true Christian would believe hell is good. It is because of our belief that we ask for salvation. It is through God's grace that we are saved. And it is because of all three that God gives us eternal life/Heaven.

I'm sorry, did I miss something here. Firstly you say it is right for all non-believes to go to hell (approval of hell) and then you say hell is not good.

You people are just plain crazy, you don't even listen to yourselves speaking and forget logic or any kind of sense. You're just away with the fairies. I don't mind that in itself, but don't try to pretend that your religion makes sense to non-brainwashed people.

StuMegu; what has caused you to be so bitter and hateful of Christian beliefs? If you don't believe that you have to be saved by grace through Jesus to have eternal salvation than what is the problem with what we are saying. You just don't believe it. We believe just being good will not get you into heaven. That doesn't mean that is the way we or God wants it but you personally have to make a decision to follow Him. That is free will. You have the choice to believe or not, that is your choice. It seems from the way you talk that you have made the choice to not follow Him and that is why we take the time to talk and explain.

1). If you believe in God just to get out of going to Hell don't you think God can see right through that motive, so how would that be "our stick" to get people to join. We don't need numbers to fill some quota.

2). Again there is a lot of forgiveness from God toward infants, children, etc that don't have the capacity to believe (ie David in the Old Testament lost a child and he stated that he would be with him in heaven; the infant couldn't believe in God yet but based on the bible passage he will indeed be in heaven)

3). HELL IS NOT GOOD! But unfortunately people will end up there that choose not to believe

Do you think the Bible is a "religion"? Because what I am referencing or quoting doesn't come from religious rules it comes for the Bible...

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Originally Posted by deist

I'm a deist not an atheist. I believe God created the universe. Or more specifically I believe God created the original singularity that exploded in the big bang to form the universe. Everything else, by intention of God, evolved from that through natural laws that God also intended. I don't believe in original sin, or that human suffering stems from it. Suffering is just a part of living in a world where creatures live & die, it is neither good nor evil. I believe mental states such as hope & love evolved along with everything else as a part of the human mind that also evolved. And it is a fact that christians & muslims try to sway people everyday. That's the reason for Jesus' Great Commission, "Go ye into all the world & preach the gospel to every creature". Christians are trying to sway people when they go out on visitation to witness door to door. Muslims are trying to sway people everyday to convert to Islam. But my main purpose is not to sway, but to get people to think, to question, to quest. Deism is a thinking philosophy. Did God give us the gift of reason & a rational mind, only that we should reject it, not use it, & just accept things on faith without questioning ?

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Where is the "research" - the proof that the human minds and such ideas of hope and love
"evolved?"

Is the casual observer suppose to believe that just because you or other evolutionists or universities teach that?

Evolution cannot explain life from non life. It cannot even explain how a protein like hemoglobin came about, and yet it is taught as fact and anyone who questions it is wrong.

In your own words deism is a philosophy that suffering is neither good nor evil?

If you believe God created the universe, how can you believe that God is some finite object that man can put under a microscope?





Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Hello Angry Christians

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I would look at your own posts on President Bush to see what anger is about.

You lot however agree that innocent people should go to hell just cause they don't believe in god. What about tribes, infants etc. that have never been told about god. In your system they all go to hell! Try thinking about the points raised in this thread before blindly following someone else's thoughts.

You should try learning about something before you speak of it as if you know what you are talking about. God has mercy on the inncocent and will not send someone to hell who does not have the capability of understanding. But He will have no mercy on someone who can understand but chooses not to.

I'm sorry, did I miss something here. Firstly you say it is right for all non-believes to go to hell (approval of hell) and then you say hell is not good.

Approval or disapproval of hell is not even a question or thought in our minds. It is the way God made things to be and it is the way they WILL be. It matters not what anyone thinks. Why should anyone get anything they do not deserve?
You think.. I will be a good person so that when I die if there truly is a God I can go to heaven? That way you get it both ways, right? While on earth you don't have to do something so low as to humble yourself to God, but just in case there is a Heaven, I will be a good person so I will still be deserving of Heaven? Wrong! And that's what you're angry about, right? That we don't think it or believe it to be that way? If you think it should be that way then you are the one without sense.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

I would look at your own posts on President Bush to see what anger is about.

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Good point, he is ruining your country not mine. You sit idly by and all will settle itself I'm sure. Maybe praying will help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Where is the "research" - the proof that the human minds and such ideas of hope and love
"evolved?"

Is the casual observer suppose to believe that just because you or other evolutionists or universities teach that?

Evolution cannot explain life from non life. It cannot even explain how a protein like hemoglobin came about, and yet it is taught as fact and anyone who questions it is wrong.

In your own words deism is a philosophy that suffering is neither good nor evil?

If you believe God created the universe, how can you believe that God is some finite object that man can put under a microscope?





Grace and Peace

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Even if I provided you websites to research I doubt you would research them. I already provided the site God versus the bible, God vs. the Bible. And some of those who have responded to this thread have shown that, indeed, christians are averse to researching anything that may put the bible in doubt. It is a fact that modern biology & medicine is dependent upon evolutionary science. No christian just became a christian out of the blue. They were talked into it by another christian, whether it be a parent, a pastor, a friend, or the writers of the New Testament. The bible is not God's revelation to man, the creation itself is God's revelation to us. We discover God through observation of God's universe through the means of science. God did not give us a rational, reasoning, mind, only that we should reject it & accept things on faith alone. God gave us a reasoning mind that we should use them in the pursuit of knowledge through observing God's universe.

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Originally Posted by Wangdoodle

You are only considering this as an ether/or. It is actually both. The verses do not say at what point Simon was forced into taking the cross. Nor do the verses mean that Jesus carried the cross the whole way. John omits the details of Simon being forced to carry the cross. That does not mean that he didn’t. Mark does not say that Jesus carried the cross himself for a while. That does not mean that he didn’t.

For example: What did I do today? I woke up and went to work. After work I had supper and now I am at my computer. This is all true.

Now I will tell you about my day again. I woke up, took a shower, had breakfast, and drove to work. After work I drove home, on the way home I stopped by the store and picked up some food for supper. This is all true as well.

These two stories do not contradict each other.

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You don't think Simon carrying the cross was sort of significant? Seems odd that an important thing such as that was left out...

There's also contradiction on Jesus' last words (Mat 27:46, Luke 23:46 and John 19:30), but I'm sure that's because they all heard something different, or they remembered differently, right? Seems to me if they remembered differently that's an error... There's also some contradiction about time...

But what do you care? The bible is the enerrant word of god, and no amount of pointed out errors will cause you to think otherwise.

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

StuMegu; what has caused you to be so bitter and hateful of Christian beliefs? If you don't believe that you have to be saved by grace through Jesus to have eternal salvation than what is the problem with what we are saying. You just don't believe it. We believe just being good will not get you into heaven. That doesn't mean that is the way we or God wants it but you personally have to make a decision to follow Him. That is free will. You have the choice to believe or not, that is your choice. It seems from the way you talk that you have made the choice to not follow Him and that is why we take the time to talk and explain.

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It's not much of a choice really, more an application of intelligent thought leading to a single possibility. What's your excuse?

I don't consider myself hateful, I have no external compulsion to come to this place and engage in argument with you, so what do you think my motives are?

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

1). If you believe in God just to get out of going to Hell don't you think God can see right through that motive, so how would that be "our stick" to get people to join. We don't need numbers to fill some quota.

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Ok, so why send people who don't believe to hell then, why not just end their existence? Do you understand this point - without the threat of hell (the stick) you (religious people) have to work harder at selling heaven (the carrot).

Also, lets say someone is scared of hell and decides to "join up". They devote the rest of their life to God and truly repent of all their sins. You say that God would see right though them and off they go to hell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

2). Again there is a lot of forgiveness from God toward infants, children, etc that don't have the capacity to believe (ie David in the Old Testament lost a child and he stated that he would be with him in heaven; the infant couldn't believe in God yet but based on the bible passage he will indeed be in heaven)

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What about the angel of death? I'm just dying (no pun intended) to hear your excuse for that one :) :) :)

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

3). HELL IS NOT GOOD! but unfortunately people will end up there that choose not to believe

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Do you agree that this is not a very balanced moral stance - good people along with murderers and rapists etc.

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

Do you think the Bible is a "religion"? because what I am referencing or quoting doesn't come from religious rules it comes for the Bible....

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Wow, you've done it again, I am amazed. I always thought the bible was a religious object and contained rules. What a dummy I am, please explain the difference so I can be more lucid next time.

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Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

You should try learning about something before you speak of it as if you know what you are talking about. God has mercy on the inncocent and will not send someone to hell who does not have the capability of understanding. But He will have no mercy on someone who can understand but chooses not to.
Approval or disapproval of hell is not even a question or thought in our minds. It is the way God made things to be and it is the way they WILL be. It matters not what anyone thinks. Why should anyone get anything they do not deserve?

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Exactly, why do good people get put in HELL AAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!! I'm BURRRRNNNNNIIIIIINNNNNGGGGGG!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves

You think..I will be a good person so that when I die if there truly is a God I can go to heaven? That way you get it both ways, right?
While on earth you don't have to do something so low as to humble yourself to God, but just in case there is a Heaven, I will be a good person so I will still be deserving of Heaven? Wrong! And that's what you're angry about, right? That we don't think it or believe it to be that way? If you think it should be that way then you are the one without sense.

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Wrong. I think there is no God! (and I'm right:)) I am just trying to understand why you lot agree that (in your system) good people should burn (see above for my description of hell).

Please remind me of where it says that anyone who hasn't heard of God will go to Heaven. I assume you wouldn't make such a claim without biblical evidence?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by StuMegu

It's not much of a choice really, more an application of inteligent thought leading to a single possibility. What's your excuse?

I don't consider myself hateful, I have no external compulsion to come to this place and engage in argument with you, so what do you think my motives are?



Ok, so why send people who dont believe to hell then, why not just end their existence? Do you understand this point - without the threat of hell (the stick) you (religious people) have to work harder at selling heaven (the carrot).

Also, lets say someone is scared of hell and decides to "join up". They devote the rest of their life to God and truly repent of all their sins. You say that God would see right though them and off they go to hell.



What about the angel of death? I'm just dying (no pun intended) to hear your excuse for that one :) :) :)



Do you agree that this is not a very balanced moral stance - good people along with murderers and rapists etc.



Wow, you've done it again, I am amazed. I always thought the bible was a religious object and contained rules. What a dummy I am, please explain the difference so I can be more lucid next time.

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You clearly have made a choice not to believe in God so you are confident in the result and so on and so forth...

I can't say things in any different way than I am, you are just not willing to hear. That is why I wonder why do you continue on with these discussions? I am happy to answer your questions based on my beliefs if you truly want them but if the answers are just being used for more fuel for your fire than there is no need. I do hope and pray that someday God will speak to you through someone or an event and you will listen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

I do hope and pray that someday God will speak to you through someone or an event and you will listen.

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I do hope that one day you will come out of your daze, live your life according to your own rules and drop this charade of organized religion. We are available to teach you this if you will listen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

You clearly have made a choice not to believe in God so you are confident in the end result and so on and so forth...

I can't say things in any different way than I am, you are just not willing to hear. That is why I wonder why do you continue on with these discussions? I am happy to answer your questions based on my beliefs if you truly want them but if the answers are just being used for more fuel for your fire than there is no need. I do hope and pray that someday God will speak to you through someone or an event and you will listen.

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"I can't say things in any different way than I am, you are just not willing to hear. That is why I wonder why do you continue on with these discussions?"

That bit was good - mind if I bounce it back at you? I also have the higher ground of actually attempting to make sense :D

Stu and need, I hear you both loud and clear.

Then you have seen the rational view and will change your ways?

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Then you have seen the rational view and will change your ways?

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Ha, no I'm sorry:D

Isn't it annoying having someone tell you how wrong you are all the time? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

Ha, no I'm sorry:D

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Liar, you aren't sorry! :D

"Are christians averse to researching anything that would contradict the bible"



No.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jillianleab

Liar, you aren't sorry! :D

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You are correct!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NeedKarma

Isn't it annoying having someone tell you how wrong you are all the time? :)

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I am the ultimate antagonist so I have to learn when to say when...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Choux

Religion is faith/belief...just what a person choses to believe regardless of facts and knowledge. If Christians were interested in facts, they would reject ignorance and learn about sciences of all kinds.

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Religion is a lifestyle, not just faith/belief. And if critics such as yourself were interested in facts you would have little to no justification for your constant criticism.

deist, bypassing all the talk of creation, biblical inerrancy, hell and all that and back to the original question, no Christians aren't averse to information that might contradict their beliefs.

I have to laugh a little every time I read one of these questions because those that think we're brainwashed idiots come crawling out of the woodwork. You would think that after having said that a thousand times they might stop and think about just who it is that's really brainwashed instead of offering the same convulsive response with no basis in reality.

Everyone faces things that are difficult to reconcile with their beliefs, and anyone, Christian or otherwise that professes differently is a liar. I'd bet that most of those that think Christians are non-thinking robots have no clue as to what we're really like. In fact, the only real difference as we see it is we're forgiven by God - we are no more or less perfect than anyone else. We make decisions for ourselves, encourage research and appreciate sound science. The fact the we stand on certain beliefs and values and encourage others to see things our way doesn't set us apart either, everyone else does that, too.

Steve

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Originally Posted by cerulean

Of course they are adverse to research. They have been brainwashed and told for centuries not to empower themselves and instead believe what they are told. They are like soldiers just believing what they are told and contradicting themselves all the time because they are more involved with the shiny badges that represent their religions, and they have forgotten that to be spiritual means to also do spiritual things, create spiritual events and address spiritual concerns that will empower and educate the world.

That never happens, what usually happens is that a religion goes into a village and forces their religion upon another at the expense of the villages cultural ideas and customs. If it hurts noone, it can't be that bad. If its creating great havoc in the world, its something that needs to END.

These types are as common as the penny Im afraid. For all the good they think they do, they are nearly always hypocritical. I don't have the time to write a thesis on the subject, but its a very old one for me.

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Gee, nobody told me what to say to this. I'm smart enough to know how absurd your response is all by myself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

deist, bypassing all the talk of creation, biblical inerrancy, hell and all that and back to the original question, no Christians aren't averse to information that might contradict their beliefs.

I have to laugh a little every time I read one of these questions because those that think we're brainwashed idiots come crawling out of the woodwork. You would think that after having said that a thousand times they might stop and think about just who it is that's really brainwashed instead of offering the same convulsive response with no basis in reality.

Everyone faces things that are difficult to reconcile with their beliefs, and anyone, Christian or otherwise that professes differently is a liar. I'd bet that most of those that think Christians are non-thinking robots have no clue as to what we're really like. In fact, the only real difference as we see it is we're forgiven by God - we are no more or less perfect than anyone else. We make decisions for ourselves, encourage research and appreciate sound science. The fact the we stand on certain beliefs and values and encourage others to see things our way doesn't set us apart either, everyone else does that, too.

Steve

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I have been many things in my search for meaning; buddhist, taoist, wiccan, agnostic, & atheist. Before that I was a bible believing christian for more than 27 years. I believed in the bible with all my heart & lived for Jesus. But in all that 27 years I never had one prayer answered, out of literally thousands of prayers, hundreds of which,statistically speaking, had to be within the will of God as revealed in the bible. And we know what John said about those who ask according to the will of God; they'd get what they asked for. Yet none of my prayers were answered. Then I happened upon deism, & having studied it, I saw that reality as it really is, & not what I wanted it to be, lined up more with the teachings of deism than the teachings of the bible. So now I am a deist, & a deist to stay. Deism answers all the questions for me that the bible couldn't. I believe my search for meaning is finally over.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deist

I have been many things in my search for meaning; buddhist, taoist, ,wiccan, agnostic, & atheist. Before that I was a bible believing christian for more than 27 years. I believed in the bible with all my heart & lived for Jesus. But in all that 27 years I never had one prayer answered, out of literally thousands of prayers, hundreds of which,statistically speaking, had to be within the will of God as revealed in the bible. And we know what John said about those who ask according to the will of God; they'd get what they asked for. Yet none of my prayers were answered. Then I happened upon deism, & having studied it, I saw that reality as it really is, & not what I wanted it to be, lined up more with the teachings of deism than the teachings of the bible. So now I am a deist, & a deist to stay. Deism answers all the questions for me that the bible couldn't. I believe my search for meaning is finally over.

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If that's where your journey led then who am I to question it? My journey has led me to remain a Christian, it's the only one that not only makes sense to me but experience has shown me the reality. I've seen too many answered prayers and changed lives to believe otherwise... but back to the original question, like most Christians I still don't have an aversion to research. In fact, I tend to thrive on it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If that's where your journey led then who am I to question it? My journey has led me to remain a Christian, it's the only one that not only makes sense to me but experience has shown me the reality. I've seen too many answered prayers and changed lives to believe otherwise...but back to the original question, like most Christians I still don't have an aversion to research. In fact, I tend to thrive on it.

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Then check out this deist site, God vs. the Bible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deist

Then check out this deist site, God vs. the Bible.

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Thanks deist, perhaps another time. A cursory review reads much like "infidels.org". Been there, done that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Thanks deist, perhaps another time. A cursory review reads much like "infidels.org". Been there, done that.

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Not averse eh ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deist

Not averse eh ?

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Stirring up the pot and setting a trap. Why would you need to do all this if your view/belief was clearly the true view??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deist

Not averse eh ?

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No, I just see no need to repeat virtually the same research. I've seen those questions asked and answered dozens of times. Show us something new.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

No, I just see no need to repeat virtually the same research. I've seen those questions asked and answered dozens of times. Show us something new.

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I doubt you have read anything quite like God versus the bible. It's not anti-God, it is just anti-bible.

This certainly doesn't help the cause:

New "View" Co-Host Sherri Shepherd Doesn't Know If World Is Flat
New "View" Co-Host Sherri Shepherd Doesn't Know If World Is Flat - Media on The Huffington Post

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

Who else matters but JESUS!! He is the "way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through Him"

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You're preaching to the choir. I understand him more than you do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Gee, nobody told me what to say to this. I'm smart enough to know how absurd your response is all by myself.

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Yes someone must have because your response is only to insult me, which totally proves all my points that religionists spend their time not being "spiritual" as the badge they love to show, but as hypocrites with closed minds.

You expose yourself. If you really were an openminded person you would have an openminded dialogue, instead you close doors and shut your mind and insult, and according to religionist rules, you're not supposed to be doing that.

My words were merely a summation to what I have experienced for the last 30 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deist

Are christians averse to researching anything that would contradict the bible no matter how true they might find it to be upon reading ? Every thinking christian owes it to themselves to research every source of possible contradiction, if for no other reason than being able to refute the contradictory material. Here are two good sites that every christian of intelligence ought to look into: God vs. the Bible & The Age of Reason.

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OKay, I am a christian but I won't speak for other christians here. We as christians are taught to refrain from looking at anything contradictory to what we believe in... I know, this sounds ignorant and in this scientific age down right laughable, but understand this... FAITH is based on undeniable belief in something on our case Jesus as the messiah and the son of God.
THe thing is take a look around yourself, even evolution has so many loopholes and if you ask me it's the product of scientists trying to force down uncooked food down our throats. My point is if you do you're research on all angles of thought regarding the origin of our species non is proved beyond resonable doubt. In my case, I find it easier to believe in something that gives me hope rather than in a series of articles that are in the end,a compilation of endless theories that do not fulfil me in anyway. And to tell you the truth.. denying or not-denying doesn't pple on opposite side of an argument... no... at one point or the other we are al going to pass away, and I don't want someone to be reading an encyclopedia britannica at my funeral.. hahahaha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nigel5

I my case if find it easier to believe in something that give me hope rather than a series of articles that are in the end,a compilation of endless theories that do not fulfil me in anyway.

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The fact that you need "fulfilling" has nothing to do with science but a personal need on your side. Many people do not have a need to be "fulfilled".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mountain_man

Who else matters but JESUS!! He is the "way the truth and the light, no man comes to the Father except through Him"

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You misquoted your own savior. He didn't say, "I am the way, the truth, and the light". He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life". I know the bible better than you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Gee, nobody told me what to say to this. I'm smart enough to know how absurd your response is all by myself.

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Yes someone must have because your response is only to insult me, which totally proves all my points that religionists spend their time not being "spiritual" as the badge they love to show, but as hypocrites with closed minds causing arguments and making fun of others whilst simultaneously believing they are the ones that actually know how reality operates.

You expose yourself. If you really were an openminded person you would have an openminded dialogue, instead you close doors and shut your mind and insult, and according to religionist rules, you're not supposed to be doing that.

My words were merely a summation to what I have experienced for the last 30 years.

Might I add a post you just wrote

Quote:

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

If that's where your journey led then who am I to question it? My journey has led me to remain a Christian, it's the only one that not only makes sense to me but experience has shown me the reality. I've seen too many answered prayers and changed lives to believe otherwise...but back to the original question, like most Christians I still don't have an aversion to research. In fact, I tend to thrive on it.

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Well if you're smug as a bug in a rug why would the first "spiritual Christian" thing you do is insult me?

Prayer and answered prayers don't belong to christianity, that is the individuals natural right, no matter what you'd label it. The fact that Christians happen to pray and many prayers get answered doesn't PROVE Christianity, it proves that you can get prayers answered at times, by your own desires and beliefs. It says more about the individual, not about some external source.

Reminds me of that "kingdon of heaven is within you" concept. It happens with you, not outside of yourself.

Again also, if you "thrive on research" why would you make fun of my research? I don't get my answers because I mimic what was told me by those so not in the know, I have gotten my answers in a multitude of ways, research, intuitive responses and by hearing what the souls of others has told me.

If you have no contempt for research, you should respect mine, and be happy Im doing it, not call me or my research absurd.

Or do you mean you just care about your own slanted research? Obviously that's what you must have meant.

This only makes you look like a child.