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This is fairly easy to show proof for. I don't see your argument here.Quote:
Originally Posted by letmetellu
Starman, do you have any non-creationist sources that state that scientists are tending more towards creationism? Surely the sources that you have used are rather biased.
Yes many scientists believe in God, I have no argument with that. A belief in God can live happily alongside the scientific truth of evolution, and this is the view of most religious scientists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
This only applies to those who believe... For the rest of us, we don't worry.
I was answering according to what the Bible says. I myself am a non-believer, so I don't have any reason to worry either. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by self_lnflicted_hell
I thought I saw in another post of yours that you are Atheist... But now I can't find it. And are you the one who said there should be an Atheist board? If so, either way, I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
I think maybe it was on a different post :confused:
Sorry if I confused you. When I said non-believer I was impying that I was Atheist.Quote:
Originally Posted by self_lnflicted_hell
Yes I did mention there should be an Atheist forum. I guess it files under "Other Religion". But maybe they will make one, because there are more Atheists out in the world than some people think.
I think you actually said you are Atheist.. but it's no big deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
True, true... And a lot of them were actually former christians & such. :p
Do you have any non-evolutionist sources which support evolution? All the pro evolutionist sources are rather biased. Actually, as soon as a pro or con statement is made it can easily be tagged as biased simply because the one making it or the sourceQuote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
From which it is derived is pro or con. That would make all pro democracy statements by the USA government biased. It would make all anti rape statements by anti rape sources biased. All pro space exploration statements of NASA biased. Isn't that rather strange?
True, a non-commited source is preferable. But then again that source, such as perhaps Time Magazine will feature articles by a certain writer, like Hawkings, who is an atheist
And pro evolutionist. Does that make the article unbiased because it appears in a supposedly unbiased Magazine? In fact, the argument can be made that if Time Magazine features predominantly pro Evolutionist articles it is biased despite its claims otherwise.
The public education system which systematically indoctrinates or inculcates pro evolutionary and anti creation ideas and all the pro atheist literature it uses is biased.
Yet the very same people who are very keen on Creationist sources are the very ones defending the biased way in which our children are taught simply because it fits in
With their preconceptions and biases.
THE EVOLUTION DECEIT
I'll take that as a no then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
No, simply a request that you produce what you are requesting of me-- a source which cannot be tagged immediately as biased simply for being pro or con.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
BTW
I know that belief in a creator can live along the belief in the evolutionary process quite happily and it does in many cases. But from a purely Christian viewpoint, what the evolutionary explanation CANNOT live happily alongside of is the Bible as the inspired word of God which clearly tells us that man was made fully man and that animals and man are two unrelated creations.
Wikipedia tries to be unbiased at all times:
Level of support for evolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is quite a good article which actually is quite favourable towards creationism.
Quote:
Originally Posted by self_lnflicted_hell
Self_inflicted_hell you've done it again. :D
True, yet I could simply dismiss it by saying that the author is biased--no? Actually, the real question is what constitutes bias? Which of course is a totally different subject which will throw the whoile trhread off theme. Perhaps the subject can be discussed further in another forum such as philosophy? In any case, thanks for your decent informative responses. : )Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Starman: an oxymoron is a christian scientist, a conflictiog situation, what do you think. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman
Not exactly... as I said in my other reply, It says in the Bible that God also created science.Quote:
Starman: an oxymoron is a christian scientist, a conflictiog situation, what do you think.
I really do not think it says anywhere in the Bible that God doesn't want us to believe in science altogether. Because he created it. Don't you think that if he hadn't then many people would die of all those mortal diseases, I don't think God wants that.
Yet, taking it all the way back to Adam and Eve, remember, they disobeyed God. The world was perfect before that happened. Remember it says that the serpent offered them "knowledge?" To know "Good from bad?" Remember it says that the serpent/satan is always misleading? That it's actions seem like it's the right thing but it's just dressed up.
Anyway when Adam and Eve decided to take the serpent's offer, God punished them. Yeah they acquired "knowledge" but just take a look at how we're using it now. Now we use the science that God created for something evil. Such as weapons and all sorts of things that damage this world and God's people. Which it is the price to pay for that initial disobedience. Since then, satan has been controlling our actions. And what Jesus was and still is trying to do, is save us from what we ourselves put us into.
Out of curiosity, where in the Bible does it say that? I would like to read it. I have read the Old and New Testaments of the Bible, and part of the King James, and nowhere did I read that God created science. So please, enlighten me. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by METERRE
God created everything. God is the creator of everything. So that means he created the minds for science and discovery as well.
Can you point me in the direction of where it says that he created science in the Bible? Thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
I never made that statement but since God is the creator of everything. That would mean that God created man the mind to actually understand science.
I know you didn't make that statement, I was just wondering if you could point me in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
If God created everything, show me black and white, hard evidence, or proof. I can explain how everything came to be through the science, astronomy and the theory of evolution.
In the bible it states that God created the world. So to me that says he created everything.
As far as saying specifically science, the answer is no. Since God created all things then that would lead me to believe that God is in charge of all things. Right? Even Science?
Now let me ask you, what if you're wrong? I respect your beliefs and religion, but what if? Because I am not convinced unless I can see it for myself, or it can be proven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
I also didn't mean to sound as if it physically in words and directly states "God created science" or anything like that. I did mean that it does say he made the world perfect. Perfect as in everything works with each other. Everything is in harmony, such as the cycle of life. It works. Cycle after cycle, if not, everything would be a mess. And I agree with Jesushelper76, he gave us minds so we could understand his creations. States that he created us in his own image. He understands how he created the world, therefore he most probably thinks we should too. Just that we are very far from knowing this world as well as he does... because he's the Supreme Being and no one but him understands everything.
I hope that my attempt to "enlighten" you didn't confuse you more about my point.
In your theory God gave us a mind, but after a time, we learned and evolved to survive in a changing environment. Hence, the theory of evolution.Quote:
Originally Posted by METERRE
What if you're wrong? I also do respect your beliefs. I have nothing to lose eighter way? Do I ? The thing with me is that I have always had a strong personal belief since I was young. Since I can remember. The belief has always been within me. I focus on the unseen. There is a lot of things in this world and others that are unseen but does not mean it does not exist. Like the example I gave before. Air, we can not see it but it is there. For me it has been proven time and time again. I am alive. I am living. Look at all the things that are around us. Oceans, Sun, Moon, stars, so many different life forms. I have always had my prayers answered. I have always had a connection to the unseen. I know I may be going on. I just want to show you and let you see where I am coming from. I have a family, we just created a son together. He is 10 months old now. These are all things that would not be possible without us having a creator.
Another thing I would like to point out that we are all creators. Where did we get this from? We are all creators. That would mean that we had to have a creator ourselves. Just like we are creators for others. We were created in Gods image. Like M said, we were given the mind to explore and create as well.
I will answer your question first. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. And I will me damned to Hell for all eternity for blasphemy. If I'm right, then nothing happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Growing up I was instilled with a strong sense of religion and church. But when I got to the age when I was old enough to understand what was going on, I began to question. No one could prove to me what I had been told most of my life was true. I have done the research, I have studied religion for countless years, but still can't find any hard physical proof. Like you, I do have a family, two boys, one 2 1/2, one three months. Like I have said before, everything that "God" has created I can explain with science.
Science is not the creator? Science is explanations of creation seen through some people.
I never once said that science was the creator. I stated that I can explain the creation of the universe, and the creation of man, THROUGH science. The "creator" is no more than a series of events that happened at the right place, at the right time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
God also gave us free will therefore also doubt. But also I should say satan uses his influence to inflict the doubt. I mean even Jesus doubted.
I'm Atheist, this does not apply to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by METERRE
God gave freewill to all people. That is included you otto. Anyway, I am enjoying this discussion but will have to continue it another time. I am getting sleepy. Lol
Take care of yourself.
Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Have a good night :)
By the way where in the world is the person who originally started this post?
The fact is that you have your beliefs and we have ours, and it sounds like you won't be letting go of yours soon, and we probably won't be letting go of ours. So it seems like this topic is a showdown but with no winner or looser.
Its an enlightening conversation. I enjoy it because I learn new things.Quote:
Originally Posted by METERRE
I agree with you otto, you certainly are able to learn more with these topics. And by the way, you asked earlier... "What if you're wrong?" Here's one advantage we have. If in case, I don't mean to doubt, we could be wrong, then we don't have to worry about it because nothing will happen to us. On the other hand, if YOU'RE wrong, then I don't really want to imagine what might happen. I'm am so not trying to judge you though, in my belief, God will deal with you like he sees it best.
I would give you a good rating but it says to spread the reputation.
Great answer. With your response, lets just hope I'm right, because Hell would probably not be good to me. LOL :) Have a good night.
Otto
I was not making an argument, only showing that a person needs faith. I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow but I am not positive, and just because it has done it for thousands of years does not mean it will tomorrow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
You do not need faith to know the sun is going to rise tomorrow. It is a scientific fact that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, unless something catastrophic happens in the next few hours, which I doubt will happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by letmetellu
But then in my belief God can terminate, make or destroy what and when he wants. So I have to say I'm split in this. Yes scientifically the sun WILL rise tomorrow, UNLESS something does happen which will not let it do so. So I know it will, but still have faith that it will. Does that make any sense?? :o
It makes sense to me. I understand you are torn between religion and what you can prove, all I can really say is step back and look at the big picture. I am sure you will make the right choice for you. Have a good night. Its been fun talking to you. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by METERRE
No, I am not doubting my belief in God and all I've said. If that's what you understood. Ok I guess not even I understood myself though. Anyway good night to you too.
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