Ask Me Help Desk - Will you go to heaven or hell if you sin on purpose and you are saved?

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonely_scared_confused

Ok...I got saved about 5 or 6 months ago and my boyfriend who used to be a very good christian encouraged me to..well now my boyfriend is slacking off and has been purposely doing sins, and asks God for forgiveness, knowing that he will do it again.. and he thinks that just because he is saved he will still go to heaven and not hell..my question is will you still go to heaven if you are saved and doing sins on purpose and asking God for forgiveness but knowing that you are going to do it again or will you go to Hell? Please help me!!:confused: :(

What really matters to Christians is what the Bible says about the matter.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Quote:

Originally Posted by laurenjd

1 John 5:18 "...anyone born of God does not continue to sin..."

I've known alot of people who sin purposely saying they'll just repent afterwards. But from experience, I've learned that only God can deal with these people. We are simply to love and lift up others in prayer, and that allows the Holy Spirit to do the work he needs to do. Only God knows the heart of a person, so only He knows how to correctly deal with these matters.

Matt. 22:39 "...love your neighbor as yourself..." This was Jesus second greatest commandment.

Just love and let God do the work! It's easier that way anyway!

Telling others about God's requirements for salvation is a Christian duty despite the fact that Christians can't read the hearts of the listeners. It is also an expression of loving neighbor as self.

Matthew 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

NWT

Tessy777

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NO. they weren't just hypocrites from the beginning. They Had NO relationship with Him, HE NEVER KNEW them. Never means.. NEVER.

Of course they never had any approved relationship with Jesus.
Can you please show me where I said that they had?

Quote:

Consider the man in I Corinthians who was living with his Step mother as his wife. Was he sinning on purpose?. yes. Does Paul call him a unbeliever that is lost and going to hell because he sinned on purpose?

I didn't say that purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation.
Sinning on purpose is part of our present human fallen condition and is beyond our meager efforts to avoid. Such sins are covered by the Ransom sacrifice. But certain unrepentant habitual sinning by certain individuals is not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starman

Tessy777

Of course they never had any approved relationship with Jesus.
Can you please show me where I said that they had?

I didn't say that purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation.
Sinning on purpose is part of our present human fallen condition and is beyond our meager efforts to avoid. Such sins are covered by the Ransom sacrifice. But certain unrepentant habitual sinning by certain individuals is not.

Starman... dude,

You DIDN't say they had a approved relationship with Jesus, you IMPLY it when you bring that verse into this topic. This is about people who were saved and then loose their salvation. (something that CANNOT be done.) So, I maintain, if you bring that verse into this topic... then I'm going to tell you that they NEVER knew Jesus and therefore your point is MOOT.

Oh OK.. so you didn't say that "purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation", but could you please give me the verse that lets us know exactly when the Holy SPIRIT who is SEALED into a TRUE believer... walks away? (says... "you know what, this man has just gone too far and I'm OUTTTA here") Cuz.. gosh dude... I haven't been able to locate that one. I have found one that says I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU... but can't find the one you speak of. Unless of course, it is in the Book of.. STARMAN... my bible doesn't have that book... lol.;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman...dude,

You DIDN't say they had a approved relationship with Jesus, you IMPLY it when you bring that verse into this topic. This is about people who were saved and then loose their salvation. (something that CANNOT be done.) So, I maintain, if you bring that verse into this topic...then I'm gonna tell you that they NEVER knew Jesus and therefore your point is MOOT.

Oh ok..so you didn't say that "purposeful sin inevitably leads to permanent condemnation", but could you please give me the verse that lets us know exactly when the Holy SPIRIT who is SEALED into a TRUE believer...walks away? (says.... "you know what, this man has just gone too far and I'm OUTTTA here") Cuz..gosh dude...i haven't been able to locate that one. I have found one that says I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE YOU...but can't find the one you speak of. Unless of course, it is in the Book of ..STARMAN... my bible doesn't have that book...lol.;)

Book of Starman?

Galatians 1:8-9, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed."

Revelation 22:18-19, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book."

Holy Spirit

God's spirit doesn't dwell in minds that are purposefully and unrepentantly dedicated
To do evil. That is totally YOUR concept and not God's since he tells us that falling away o0r becoming alienated from grace is possible.

Galatians 5:4
4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

1 Corinthians 9:27
27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Revelation 2:10
10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

(New International Version)

Of course the once saved always saved will say that such scriptures along with dozens of others which tell Christians to watch themselves lest they anger God and lose out on life no longer apply to them. Unfortunately, the scriptures which warn us to be careful lest we wind up on the Devil's side of the issue were inspired and written AFTER Jesus died for our sins. If indeed these scriptures don't mean what they say to a person who feels he can do nothing wrong to lose out on life, then THAT person is writing his or her own version of the Bible.

Freedom of Choice

Not always, but in some cases habitual unrepentant sinful behavior constitutes a rejection of the Ransom sacrifice. In such cases God respects our freedom to choose since freedom of choice is our God given right and doesn't vanish via once we become Christians. Indeed, if it did, then becoming a Christian would be tantamount to dehumanization, something that God would never do to his servants.

The holy spirit doesn't deprive a person of free will. The holy spirit strengthens, directs,
Enlightens, enables, us to do things impossible to do by ourselves, such as endure persecution, have patience, show love and manifest all the fruits of good Christian behavior. But one thing that the holy spirit doesn't do is force a person to remain a Christian even though the person has chosen to use his God-given free will to renounce his faith and chooses to demonstrate it by purposefully living an anti-Christian pro-Devil lifestyle.

About the questioner

If indeed the questioner is asking based on his belief that he can't lose out on life due to willful, unrepentant demonically approved conduct, then why even ask the question? Actually, that he is moved to ask indicates clearly that he isn't sure if his conduct will divest him of his approved condition before God. Since he has doubts, then, in all conscience, I direct him to scriptures which show clearly that God does care deeply on how we behave and that behavior is the basis for rejecting.

Here is informative website on the subject.

Eternal Security is FALSE (once saved always saved, perseverance of the saints)

Actually, the only spirits which the Bible describes as forcing people to do what they don't want to do are rebel spirits or demons.

BTW
God remains faithful as long as the person doesn't choose to reject him and he is the only one qualified to know when that has happened.

Starman... Dude,

The book of starman... was obviously a joke. See, God gave ME a sense of humor.. obviously.. YOU didn't get one... ok.. I get it.

I do not own anyone that calls themselves a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin... a Christian.. so please don't tell me what my "concept" is. K?

And last but not least... where Sin abounds Grace much more abounds... and my entire, entire point to YOU was your last by the way line... give me the book and verse dude! Back it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman... Dude,

The book of starman... was obviously a joke. See, God gave ME a sense of humor.. obviously.. YOU didn't get one... ok.. i get it.

Sorry if I offended you. I was merely trying to clarify my position in reference to scripture.

Quote:

I do not own anyone that calls themselves a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin... a Christian.. so please don't tell me what my "concept" is. K?

I know that you don't own anyone who calls himself a Christian and yet continues to habitually sin since slavery is now against the law. : )

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And last but not least... where Sin abounds Grace much more abounds...
and my entire, entire point to YOU was your last by the way line... give me the book and verse dude! Back it up.

True, grace does abound. But it's not unconditional.

Is Grace Unconditional?

BTW
You'll find plenty of scriptures at the links I provide if scriptural support is really what you are seeking.

Starman,

Glad to see you DO have a sense of humor... I don't own anyone dude and you knew what I was saying.. ;) but I liked that comment.

We will agree to disagree. You are a believer and I appreciate the knowledge that you have. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tessy777

Starman,

glad to see you DO have a sense of humor....I don't own anyone dude and you knew what i was saying..;) but i liked that comment.

We will agree to disagree. You are a believer and I appreciate the knowledge that you have. :)

As a believer in Jesus' Ransom sacrifice I apreciate you as well Tessy.
Very interesting discussion. Thanks for trhe feedback.

What is salvation? Salvation means being delivered from something. What are born again believers delivered from? The wages of sin. What is the wages of sin? Death. Once a person has exercised faith in the person & finished work of Christ Jesus he/she is saved once & for all time.

That is why salvation is called eternal life. Eternal life is eternal. There is nothing you can say or do to lose your salvation. Hebrews 10:14 says "By that one offering He has perfected FOREVER them that are sanctified." Born again believers are made forever perfect in the sight of God because of Jesus' sacrificial death & blood.

Once saved always saved. Jesus died for all sins once & for all time. Hebrews 10:12 "But our High Priest offered Himself to God as one sacrifice for sins, good for all time. Then He sat down at the place of highest honor at God's right hand." Hebrews 10:17 "Then he adds, I will never again remember their sins and lawless deeds. v.18 Now when sins have been forgiven, there is no need to offer any more sacrifices."

According to Hebrews 10 as well as 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, & many other new testament passages in Romans and 1st John 2:2 Christ's sacrifice took away all sins of the world from the eyes of God forever.

There is no distinction between intentional and unintentional sins. Did Jesus go through all that trouble just to die for a selective group of sins? Did he die for "acceptable sins" only? Is accidental sin more acceptable in the sight of God than intentional sin?

I can only speak for myself when I say that every sin I have ever committed in my life has been intentional. Why? Because God never allows me to be tempted beyond what I can bear. He always provides a way out so I don't have to succumb to temptation.

Therefore every sin I commit is the result of my choosing to give into temptation. Therefore I don't believe there is such thing as unintentional sins. We have to take responsibility for our sins instead of minimizing it by saying "I tried not to sin but I couldn't help myself."

I believe the scripture that God never lets me be tempted beyond what I can bear. Therefore every sin I commit is intentional and committed because I chose to yield to temptation instead of taking the way out that God made.

So because Jesus sacrifice was more than enough to pay for intentional sins (which is the only way I believe a person can sin) the answer is no you will not go to hell for sinning on purpose. Those sins were placed behind the back of God 2000 years ago never to be seen again.

The only sin attributable to man is the sin of unbelief (rejection) in the One who came to die for the sins of the world so that raised from the dead He could impart spiritual life back into us that was lost because of Adam's sin. All sins of the world were judged at the cross.

The verdict was guilty and the punishment was death. Jesus took it all for us. If salvation could be lost then God would be exercising double jepoardy on sin. Double jeporady is illegal in the united states. Once the judge declares us not guillty there is no changing that.

If you have come to a point in your life where you have confessed (agreed) to God that you are a spiritually dead sinner and you have agreed with God that there is no way in hell that you can save yourself and that you need a Savior. And you have put your trust in Christ's sacrificial death alone for the total forgiveness of your sins and you have put your trust in His resurrection alone for the solution to your spiritual condition of spiritual death then you are saved and born again child of God. You never have to worry ever again about going to hell!

So have you come to that point in your life where you have come to the end of yourself and agreed with God concerning the truth about your spiritual condition and putting your trust in His Son's provision for you?

That provision being the death, burial, & resurrection. (1st Corinthians 15:1-4) That is the gospel. The gospel is NOT death, burial & resurrection + water baptism. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection plus tithing. The gospel is NOT death, burial & resurrection + church membership. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection + Saturday sabbath keeping. The gospel is NOT death, burial, & resurrection + trying to quit sinning.

The gospel is faith in Jesus' death, burial & resurrection alone as your provision for your spiritual condition of sin & death. No man will ever go to hell because of his sins except for the sin of rejecting the provision that Christ made for the whole world. If it were possible for sins committed on purpose to send one to hell then obviously Christ has some unfinished business to deal with on sin. But I believe what Jesus said in John 19:30 when He cried out from the cross "IT IS FINISHED!"

Even if a born again christian commits a massacare by killing 32 people including himself with a shotgun he will not lose his salvation. Those sins were judged at the cross as well. Jesus died for the sins of murder & suicide.

So if the virginia tech shooter trusted Christ as his Savior before committing that massacre then he is home safe in heaven tonight. Jesus welcomed him in with open arms.

According to the bible even serial killers and psychopaths who go on massive shooting sprees are NOT beyond the saving grace of God. I believe there are born again christians who engage in sociopathic and/or psychopathic behaviors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kentuckywoman

What really matters to Christians is what the Bible says about the matter.

1 John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Kentucky, I believe the Scripture you have quoted directly deals with the question that has been asked, "Will you go to heaven or hell if you sin on purpose and you are saved?"

I think in answering the question, collectively, people have correctly pointed out that:

1. A true Christian cannot lose their salvation
2. Salvation is not by works - it is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
3. When Jesus died on the cross He paid the penalty for all sins - past, present and future.

True Christians sin and because of that may lack assurance of salvation.

Psalm 51:12 - "Restore to me the joy of your salvation and grant me a willing spirit, to sustain me."

As Christians, if we failure to grow spiritually, we may also lack confidence in our salvation:

2 Peter 1:3-10 - "His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. 10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure. For if you do these things, you will never fall, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

Anyone indwelt by the Holy Spirit is secure eternally (will bear the fruit of the Spirit):

Ephesians 1:13-14 - "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory."

"

"

(Note: Only God who knows the heart of men - He alone is the Judge of man's eternal destination.)

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with.

1 John 2:19 - "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us."

(Note: Only God who knows the heart of men - He alone is the Judge of man's eternal destination.)

According to Scripture, people who profess to know Christ at one time but later deny Him were never really saved to begin with.

1 John 2:19 - "What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?"

(I would recommending reading all of 1 John - it addresses our issue of whether a person is truly saved or not)

In my previous post in this thread (#18, page 2), I wrote about false teachers and a false gospel being preached. People can be manipulated into a decision that they think they made. And once they made the decision, that's the end of it - every thing's all settled. They can live any way they want. But that is not living the true Gospel.

Romans 6:1-2: "Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure. 4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. 5 But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. 6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8 He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work. 9 No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother."

According to 1 John, if any man continues in sin he doesn't know the Lord. If a person thinks salvation is some kind of a license to sin without impunity and judgment, they are not saved. Because the person who has genuinely converted has a new heart, new spirit, new longings, new aspirations, new desires. It is not the perfection of their life, but it is the direction of it.

(a side note to the previous post - Again, God is the judge, but because of the above and following Scripture, I have a hard time reconciling the fact that if a person goes on a killing spree and then commits suicide - that they would end up in heaven - even if they had "

1 John 3:3-10 - " to be a Christian. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is. I realize that Jesus saved one of the criminals that hung on a cross next to His, however, a true Christian will bear fruit. Although there may be a rare occasion (God's Sovereignty) that a mass murderer goes to heaven, but it is higly unlikely (based on Scripture). Really, as I am addressing in this post - it would go for any sin, not just murder. If someone commits those crimes and truly repents of their sin and accepts Christ, then sure they would go to heaven).

Ezekiel 36:26 - "claimed"

2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

If a person is a true Christian, you need to see some fruit (Galatians 5:16-26). Are we ever going to get over sin? NO! Is there ever going to be a decreasing frequency of sin? For a Bible believing Christian, I say Yes. As we mature in Christ, there will be a decreasing frequency of sin - we will sin less. But as we grow in spiritual maturity, we will hate sin even more - we will sin less and feel worse. That's how it is. (Read Paul's statement in

BibleGateway.com - Passage Lookup: Romans 7:7-25;

A true believer will never depart from the faith...

Philippians 1:6 - "

Ephesians 2:8-10 - "

So those who do so are revealing that they were never truly saved:

Hebrews 3:12-14 - "See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first."

Matthew 7:13-14, 17-23 - "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. 21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"

Do you want to know more about God's plan of salvation and how you can know for sure that you are going to heaven?

Read God's Plan of Salvation - Know For Certain That You Have Eternal Life

If today, you decide to make the most important life changing decision you will ever make - becoming a follower of Jesus Christ - please contact me, I would love to talk with you about what to do next - (growing in your faith as a new Christian).

[email protected]

God Bless,

Kevin

But is possible for a born again believer to commit a sin and not have time to repent of it because he dies of a heart attack or car accident the next second?

What if I get angry at someone on the freeway and flick them off and this person pulls out a gun and shoots me in retaliation? I would not go to hell for a sin I committed at the last minute of my life.

Therefore it is possible for a believer to commit a murder/suicide and still go to heaven. God does not have a numerical value on sin where some sins are more soul damaging than others. All it takes is one sin to condemn a person to death if that sin was not paid for on the cross.

Yes all believers will bear some fruit but all believers are also capable of falling back into carnality and committing some of what we would consider shocking sins. King David committed murder & adultery but he was still a man after God's own heart.

Lot is another example of one who did not live a righteous life yet God declared him righteous because of his faith. We can learn from the old testament heroes of faith that none of them lived righteously. The desires of the flesh do not go away just because one is saved. We are new creatures that inhabit the same body that contains indwelling sin.

While I believe all true believers will bear some fruit that fruit may or may not be visible to others or even to ourselves. There is a reason for that. Maybe because God knew that if He made that fruit visible to us all the time we would get self righteous and puffed up thinking that we are the ones who have something to do with producing the fruit.

I'd probably forget about Jesus in a minute if I were living a perfect life in this flesh & blood body. The scripture says to rejoice in our weaknesses because it's those weaknesses that keep us dependent on Christ. Those weaknesses are reminders. The indwelling sin in our flesh & blood bodies will continue to run its course until it heads to the grave.

As far as those scriptures in 1st John 3:6-9 is talking about our reborn spirit. A person who is born again does not sin in the sense that his reborn spirit does not sin at all. His spirit is secure forever.

The part of us that is born again cannot sin because God's seed is connected and remains there. 1st John 3:6-9 is not talking about sins that are committed from the flesh. The flesh will never change.

By the way 1st John 3:6-9 cannot be talking about habitual sin. It clearly says those who are born of God do not sin period! Nothing in there about habitual sin. So we either have to interpret this to mean that believers live a sinlessly perfect life in the flesh or we have to interpret this as talking about the reborn spirit of man (which is the real us).

This can be proven with what paul talks about in Romans 7:19-20 "When I want to do good, I don't. And when I try not to do wrong, I do it anyway. But if I am doing what I don't want to do, I am not really the one doing it; the sin within me is doing it."

We see that paul struggled with sin in Romans 7:14-25. A poster said that true believers will sin less and less. Well how can one be sure of their salvation then? Should they make a checklist of how often they sin today compared to how often they sinned yesterday or the day before or when they were lost?

So I can be sure of my salvation as long as I don't sin as much as I did before I got saved? That means if I lied 10 times in a week as a lost person I should be doing a checklist to make sure I stop short of that by lying no more than 9 times a week?

What about fornication? I have to be careful not to fornicate more than once every 40 days as a saved person if I fornicated once every 30 days as a lost person?

What does the Bible say about the importance of behavior in relation to our justification and consequent salvation?

James 2:14 - What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can this kind of faith save him? (NET)

"What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, and one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone... Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only."
--James 2:14-17,24 (KJV)

Excerpt
When the word translated above as "justified" (Greek dikaioo, to render, show or regard as righteous) is used in other contexts in the New Testament, it is always used in the sense of being justified before God. (Examples: Romans 3:20, 3:24, 3:28, 5:1, 5:9; Galatians 2:16; Titus 3:7). It is never used to imply justification in the sight of one's fellow Christians.
Ebon Musings: Faith Alone

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad." --2 Corinthians 5:10 (NIV)

"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." --Matthew 16:27 (KJV)

"And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." --John 5:29 (KJV)

"[God] will render to every man according to his deeds, to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life... " --Romans 2:6,7 (KJV)

1 Corinthians 9:27
27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

Revelation 2:10
10Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.

KJV: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

The following words were written to those who had accepted Jesus as savior.

"Be not deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that will he also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life." (Gal. 6:7-8)

"…do not be haughty, but fear! For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, IF YOU CONTINUE in His goodness. Otherwise YOU ALSO will be cut off!" (Rom.11:20-22)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamguy

While I believe all true believers will bear some fruit that fruit may or may not be visible to others or even to ourselves. There is a reason for that. Maybe because God knew that if He made that fruit visible to us all the time we would get self righteous and puffed up thinking that we are the ones who have something to do with producing the fruit.

Matthew 5:14-16 - "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Galatians 5:22-25 - "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

John 15:4-6 - "Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 "I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned."

To those who say that true believers don't sin habitually my question is this: Where do we draw the line as to what constitutes habitual sin? Which one of us is qualified to make that judgement?

How many sins do I have to commit before it's considered habitual? Twice a week? Twice a month?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamguy

To those who say that true believers don't sin habitually my question is this: Where do we draw the line as to what constitutes habitual sin? Which one of us is qualified to make that judgement?

How many sins do I have to commit before it's considered habitual? Twice a week? Twice a month?

Dreamguy, you ask a good question, here is a solid biblical based article that addresses your question.

Here is an excerpt (the link follows)

"1 John 3:10 John sums up his thoughts: "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." I don't care what anyone claims--if they are not righteous, they are not Christians. A Christian habitually practices righteousness, but occasionally sins; he doesn't habitually sin, but occasionally does something right. Sin is incompatible with the law of God, the work of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit." - John MacArthur

Why Christians and Sin are Incompatible (2111) (1 John 3:4-10) - Grace to You

I hope it helps, God bless,

Kevin

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevinH777

Dreamguy, you ask a good question, here is a solid biblical based article that addresses your question.

Here is an excerpt (the link follows)

"1 John 3:10 John sums up his thoughts: "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." I don't care what anyone claims--if they are not righteous, they are not Christians. A Christian habitually practices righteousness, but occasionally sins; he doesn't habitually sin, but occasionally does something right. Sin is incompatible with the law of God, the work of Christ, and the ministry of the Holy Spirit." - John MacArthur

Why Christians and Sin are Incompatible (2111) (1 John 3:4-10) - Grace to You

I hope it helps, God bless,

Kevin

I already suspected that your beliefs were of the john macarthur brand. I've read some of his book's before. You must be reading out of the Macarthur study bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dreamguy

I already suspected that your beliefs were of the john macarthur brand. I've read some of his book's before. You must be reading out of the Macarthur study bible.

My beliefs are of the Word of God brand, I am follower of Jesus Christ, and I can say with Luther, "my conscience is held captive by the Word of God". I have a few books from MacArthur as well, he is a solid Bible teacher, but I do not agree with everything he believes - I study the Word, trying my best to apply proper hermeneutic principles, then relying on the Holy Spirit for wisdom and understanding. I happen to agree with him on the subject we have been discussing - sin and the Lordship of Christ.

I don't own a MacArthur study Bible, but I am sure like most of his teaching, it is pretty solid. When I am doing my personal devotions or preparing my lesson for Sunday (I teach the college and career class at my church), I like to study using a few different translations - usually the NIV, NKJV, and ESV, and on occasion the KJV and NASB. I will also refer back to the Greek and Hebrew when I am having difficulty with a passage.

God bless brother,

Kevin

You belong to God when you accept Him. He won't let you go no matter what you do. He'll be working all the time to bring the person back to Him, but He still loves that person. That's what grace is all about. We don't go to Heaven because of what WE do. We go because of what Jesus did. The same holds true for hell. We don't go to hell because of our sins because Jesus bought us and paid for us. We belong to HIM! :)

A Christian can burn in hell right next to a non-believer. This belief in 'once saved always saved,' is something we would all like to think is true, but it's not. Any Christian can fall from grace. "Many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord,' and I will say, I do not know you." If we are a Christian, we do God's will. God will not be tempted. Yes a Christian can be forgiven for sins, but that doesn't mean we can keep sinning willfully and always be forgiven, God knows our heart.

We can't pull the wool over God's eyes, He knows our every thought. If we don't have the love of Jesus in our hearts, we are not Christians. If we have Jesus in our hearts then we want to do His will, and willfully sinning just because you know you will be forgiven is another sin in itself.