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Originally Posted by belovedgift

In the Bible Enoch walked with God and was no more. Elijah was taken to heaven with out dying. If by Adam's sin death came unto all men,how where these two men spared death?

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The apostle Paul is saying that because of Adam's sin, all of mankind is now sentenced to death and eternal condemenation because of one offense. It is the condition of mankind and there is nothing we can do about it. We are born spirtually dead and without hope and a sinner by nature.

BUT because of the second Adam which is the Lord Jesus Christ and HIS righteousness all those who have faith are now no longer under that sentence but God imputes the Lord's righteousness unto us and we are justified by His Grace and mercy this is the result of one man's obedience. (justified - just as if I had never sinned)

The verse isn't talking just about death physically but the condition and eternal condmenation that we are all under just by being a human being.

consider this"

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Genesis 2:17


Well Adam and Eve didn't die physically that day according to the scripture but they did die spirtually. The Lord kicked them out of the garden. And this judgment was passed onto every person born into this world because of ONE man's offense

So, If one man's sin caused this horrible condition... consider what one man's righteousness did for mankind.

Romans 5:18 So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men.

Jesus obedience resulted in LIFE to all men. But men still die physically.

Elijah and Enoch's faith was counted to them as righteousness. God was always looking to the cross and what the Lord Jesus Christ would do. This is why the blood of animals only covered their sins under the law... it was a type of the Lord. But only the Lord washed them.

If someone has more insight in this please feel free to correct me but I believe that is what the Apostle Paul is saying when you put all of it into context.

You say 2 men have not died, but is that so? I could be wrong but as far as I remember, at least one of these men were taken into the heavens (where birds fly) so as they would not be killed and were apparently placed in another area to live out their life.

Basically, the man was given an escape from death by being flown to another area that was safe, much like the angels making an earth quake to set prisoners free from prison.

Is this so?

When you look at the evidence surrounding these two accounts, it is clear to see that they didn't go to heaven.

Enoch "pleased God well" so because of the badness around him, "God transferred him so as not to see death." He simply could have put Enoch in a trance-like state before ending his life to spare him the pain of death. What we know for sure is that he didn't go to heaven because Jesus stated in John 3:13 that "no man has ascended to heaven but he that has descended from heaven, the son of man." It seems too that his body was also disposed of the same way as Moses' body, so that even today no one can find their remains.

Elijah on the other hand was taken in a windstorm to heaven, but was it the same heaven that the angels dwell in? It had to be the physical heavens of the earth as described in Gen 1:6 and Deut 4:17. Why? Some 5 years later Elijah wrote a letter to the king of Judah (2Ch 21:12-15) proving that he was still alive. So he'd simply been transferred to a different prophetic assignment by God. The fact that Elisha didn't perform the customary period of mourning after his master was gone also gives evidence of him still being alive.

So according to biblical facts, these two did die, even if one of them was spared the pain of death, but both have the resurrection hope to look forward to.

Moparbyfar,
That was very interesting.
Thanks much for posting it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Moparbyfar,
There IS a big difference from ascended to taken.
Two men were taken to heaven, Jesus ascended.
Angels can ascend and descend just as Jesus can, but they are not men.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Playing with words Arcura, playing with words. I respect your beliefs though so peace with you. :)

Hi Mo.

Very well put; I thought it was something like that, but was not entirely sure.

But I can see where they get confused. I mean it does say something like 'taken to heaven and did not die'.

Especially with the account of Enoch, it could be very confusing.

BUT, very well put. Thanks for helping me out.

Oh good grief, these two men Elijah and Enoch were taken suddenly from the earth into the Heavens. I believe the Bible I believe God. I didn't write it... I didn't think it... I didn't inspire it... I simply read it and believe it.

NO. I disagree. Arcura isn't playing with words He is quoting the Bible... the Lord Jesus ascended to heaven. He was in control, HE IS God. The other two were taken.

( see, I got your back here Fred.. I don't always disagree with you my friend)

classyT,
Thanks, I have noticed that from time to time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Like I said Classy, I respect Arcura's beliefs as I do any other but it's God's opinion that matters to me the most. You say you believe what the bible says, so the evidence I quoted especially regarding Elijah - straight out of the bible - doesn't convince you? Hmmm. Ok.

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Originally Posted by classyT

Oh good grief, these two men Elijah and Enoch were taken suddenly from the earth into the Heavens. I believe the Bible I believe God. I didn't write it...I didn't think it...I didn't inspire it...I simply read it and believe it.

NO. I disagree. Arcura isn't playing with words He is quoting the Bible...the Lord Jesus ascended to heaven. He was in control, HE IS God. the other two were taken.

( see, i got your back here Fred..i don't always disagree with you my friend)

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I quite agree. And while she's got your back, I'll watch your left side :D:D

Moparbyfar,
That kind of thing happens because often we see things a bit differently or define them differently.
Sometimes taking another slower look clears up any mystery.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Mo, it is not so straight forward for anyone to figure out about the account of Elijah, and it is especially hard for anyone to accept what the Bible says when a particular teaching has been etched into their brain.

You cannot expect Classy to 'see the light' so fast. Give her time

... pretty full from all that humble pie :D
Apologies Classy for the unnecessary comment.
I accept that you do not share my beliefs. Best regards. :)

Mo,

I feel bad now, I re read my post and I seemed rude. Didn't mean to be AT ALL. I can come off as harsh but I'm not in the real world... soft as marshmallow. And just because I act like I know it all... I know I don't. ;)

BUT... in this case I do. :D

Haha, well said Classy