Lol and this is where it starts to seem that a clear answer is impossible to find :)


We all believe something different. As long as we respect eachothers opinions, all is well :)

To get into the really complicated, God says he knows the spirit he put in each one of us and he knows the beginning to the end and what we will choose and do before we even do it so in not limiting God I would say that he would already know if the baby would have grown up to be a serial killer and have an evil hardened heart that rejected him.
But in general I believe babies do go to heaven.
We live in the finite and we can not comprehend the depths of Gods wisdom and why many things are the way they are.

THIS is where I stop agreeing with you nohelp :P sorry. :P no hard feelings.


If God knows all this, WHY give us a choice in the first place? Why not simply obilterate all the evil people and any who are destined to come in the future, and take all of us good people to paradise now? Why wait? Why give us the chance?

Also, if god KNOWS if we are good or bad, why do we need to ask him to forgive us. If he KNOWS we are going to be good, doesn't he already forgive us?

Because he gives us free will. According to what you are saying why even have an earth with ANY people?
The Bible says that he knows the beginning and the end. He lives in infinitely; we live in time. So he does know what we are going to say and do before we even do it. I sort of think of it like a movie that we watch over again. We already know what Mel Gibson or Nicholas Cage is going to say next since we already watched the movie. We didn't make them say what they were going to say but we already knew because we already saw it.

What about my children? I'm not a Christian, I don't believe in the bible, where are my kids going?

Are they guilt free, sin free, golden in the eyes of God, in the eyes of Christians?

I believe they would go to heaven because they are still young and not to the age of countability (and I bet they have love in their heart and not evil hatred)

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Originally Posted by N0help4u

I believe they would go to heaven because they are still young and not to the age of countability (and I bet they have love in their heart and not evil hatred)

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They are young, and they are wonderful kids. They both believe in God, I will let them make up their own minds about the role they want God to play in their lives.

We don't go to church, because I don't believe in Church, but they have gone with their friends. We don't read the bible, because I don't believe that it's important, but they know about the stories in the bible and they know about God. I will not preach to them, it would be pointless. God is a part of their lives, and they do believe. Whatever questions they have, I will find the answer, even if it's against my beliefs.

I guess my questions is, what age are they considered accountable? Is it 18? When are we considered adults in the eyes of God? When are we no longer gold? When do we become tarnished?

altenweg, I believe that when a child, (usually around 8-12) has the UNDERSTANDING of what right and wrong is, and what sin is, and then chooses to sin, he is held accountable.

however, it also varies, because when I was 12, I was very innocent of sin, where as, these days, 12 year olds are having sex and getting drunk.

god is a very flexible god, and he takes circumstances into consideration.

What do Christians consider sin though?

My son threw a rock at a window when he was 6, he knew it was wrong, he knew he shouldn't do it, he did it anyway. Does that mean he's now accountable in God's eyes?

I don't buy it.

This is the problem I have with the bible. If it really was the book of God then wouldn't these things be clear? Instead we're left to interpret what the book means. We all know what happens when you interpret something, it becomes flawed, because man is flawed.

There is not clear writing on when a child is no longer free from sin. There is no age when we say, okay, you now know right from wrong, now you either accept God, follow his way or you're going to hell.

Is it left up to us to determine? I thought the bible told us everything, every aspect of how to live our lives and find eternity with him. This seems to be a grey area.

This same question has to be applied to more than just one-week old babies. What about the indigenous people of southern Africa?

Yes, yes.. missionaries have been sent out there to spread the Word but that wasn't always the case. There have been millions that have lived their entire life without ever having the chance to hear about Jesus Christ. They have certainly sinned but are likely better people than you or I.

Do they go to Hell?

There is a lot of "I believe this..." and "I believe that..." but the reality is that no one really knows. The "Religion" just isn't clear on this.

Everyone has taken it upon themselves to come up with an answer that suits them.. the very thing that some of you have held against others.

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Originally Posted by DrJizzle

There is a lot of "I believe this..." and "I believe that..." but the reality is that no one really knows. The "Religion" just isn't clear on this.

Everyone has taken it upon themselves to come up with an answer that suits them.. the very thing that some of you have held against others.

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WEll Dr D. I DID back my belief UP with scripture... it isn't what suits ME... it is all about what GOD has to say. Incidentally, If it was about what suited ME... we'd all go to heaven, and I'd be loaded with CASH right now on this earth.

While I appreciate the humor :) going back to the scripture you gave us.. I don't really see how that shows us anything. Sure David said "I will go to him" so we know that HE believes his child is in Heaven. But we do not know if that is true or not.

What religious parent would NOT believe their dead child was in Heaven or a better place?

Maybe God told him that his child would be in Heaven but it doesn't say that. So maybe David, too, is adjusting his beliefs to suit his needs as a human being.

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Originally Posted by classyT

WEll Dr D. I DID back my belief UP with scripture...it isn't what suits ME...it is all about what GOD has to say. Incidently, If it was about what suited ME....we'd all go to heaven, and I'd be loaded with CASH right now on this earth.

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Thankfully it is up to God.

The thing that separates us is this. You wish all people would go to heaven, but you don't believe they will, because of the bible.

I believe that all good people will go to heaven, whether they believe in God or not.

As for the cash, lotto , someone's got to win, it might as well be you. ;)

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Thankfully it is up to God.

The thing that seperates us is this. You wish all people would go to heaven, but you don't believe they will, because of the bible.

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It is up to God - you are right.

Unfortunately, many people don't like what God has said in His word, the Bible.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

It is up to God - you are right.

Unfortunately, many people don't like what God has said in His word, the Bible.

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Many people see it for what it is, a book written by man.

At least you can't give me a reddie for my opinion here.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Many people see it for what it is, a book written by man.

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We've been through that before. There is overwhelming evidence that it is in fact the word of God, but I guess that I would ask why, if you so dislike Christianity, do you post in the Christianity area (no answer required - rhetorical question).

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Originally Posted by Tj3

We've been through that before. There is overwhelming evidence that it is in fact the word of God, but I guess that I would ask why, if you so dislike Christianity, do you post in the Christianity area (no answer required - rhetorical question).

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Then why ask the question?

Trying to start another fight Tom, or merely hijacking the thread? :rolleyes:

This thread questions what the bible says, what Christians believe. Actually, it should probably be in religious discussions.

I don't hate Christianity, what I dislike is people that think their beliefs are fact without any proof whatsoever that go around telling others they're going to hell.

Now can you stop hijacking the thread and get back on topic?

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Then why ask the question?

Trying to start another fight Tom, or merely hijacking the thread? :rolleyes:

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Here we go again...

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This thread questions what the bible says, what Christians believe. Actually, it should probably be in religious discussions.

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There is a difference between "questioning what Christians believe", and asking for a clarification on what the Bible teaches.

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I don't hate Christianity, what I dislike is people that think their beliefs are fact without any proof whatsoever that go around telling others they're going to hell.

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I have seen very few people telling others that they are going to hell. I can only think of twice and both times the comment was aimed at me. Perhaps you mistake this for Christians pointing out what scripture says about those who die without Christ going to hell. There is a difference between explaining doctrine and "telling others that they are going to hell".

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Now can you stop hijacking the thread and get back on topic?

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More accusations, Alty?

Tom, stop hijacking the thread.

The original question is;

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Recently stated here was the proposition that no one can be saved unless they believe in Jesus.

What happens to a week-old baby who dies?

Did Jesus make an exception for these? Does the baby go to hell?

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Now can we get back on topic please?