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Originally Posted by cozyk

What makes you think that these "best scholars" didn't PURPOSELY have their own agenda.?

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I guess everyone has to answer that question for themselves. For me, it is the fact that I can trace the results of the best scholarship throughout the centuries and they come back with the same results. All of them independently interpreting the source documents.

In the end, I have to have faith in the people who interpret the documents. I trust they have learned and taken to heart the same lessons the Master taught me.

cozyk,
I believe that the best bible translator scholars are many and together it would be extremely unlikely that they would "have their own agenda"
The reason why we have far better translations of the bible is partly because more original documents have been discovered and partly because of earlier translation errors.
Dedicated professionals want to fix the errors and have NO axe to grind.
On the other hand that most error filled versions of the bible since the King James Version was published are those bible which indeed have been translated by people who do have an agenda and want the bible to say that they want it to say.
If you don't believe me, fine. That is your choice.
You might want to send your skepticism or questions The American Bible Society.
Click on the ULR below.
American Bible Society
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I believe in a God that loves me so much that He sent His only begotten Son to die for me on the Cross in order to keep me from going to hell.

I believe in a God who does not send anyone to hell, who does the utmost to prevent His children from going to hell, who respect His children's will so much that He lets them go if they don't want any part of Him.

Sincerely,

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Why did someone have to die for you not to go to hell?
I don't believe in a god that would torture, humiliate, forsake, and sentence to a slow painful death of one person, Jesus, as a way to save other people from going to hell. He is ALL POWERFUL. He doesn't even have to have this "over the top" horrible place called hell.. That's a pretty drastic punishment. Why the two extremes? Pearly gates of heaven or fiery pitts of hell? According to Christians, everyone who does not believe this tale is subject to burn in hell. He's GOD! Is this the best plan he could come up with?

People that live a "Christ Like Life" but are of other faiths are going to hell?? God is GOOD, God is LOVE, God is MERCYFULL. That is the god I believe in and he would not condemn good people to hell just because they were not raised with this particular religion. And he certainly would not put up This hoop to jump through in order to be with Him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by De Maria

I guess everyone has to answer that question for themselves. For me, it is the fact that I can trace the results of the best scholarship throughout the centuries and they come back with the same results. All of them independently interpreting the source documents.

In the end, I have to have faith in the people who interpret the documents. I trust they have learned and taken to heart the same lessons the Master taught me.

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That's just it. You are having faith in PEOPLE and their INTERPRETATION. Those two words are subject to flaws and my god is a personal god that resides in my heart and soul and is not contingent on what mere people have translated or interpreted. My god's eye is on me 24/7 and I know if my thoughts or actions are pleasing to him. I don't need a bible to tell me what is right or wrong.

cozyk,
You believe as you WANT to just like almost every other person.
Your belief is ,as you put it, human made and therefore can be flawed.
Personally I think that your personal belief in God is flawed.
Why?
Because God is the perfectly wise, understanding, merciful, and just being.
If He is not, He is not the one true God.
So HIS way of salvation and punishment is perfect from His point of view and certainly not from our flawed point of view.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by arcura

cozyk,
You believe as you WANT to just like almost every other person.
Your belief is ,as you put it, human made and therefore can be flawed.
Personally I think that your personal belief in God is flawed.
Why?
Because God is the perfectly wise, understanding, merciful, and just being.
If He is not, He is not the one true God.
So HIS way of salvation and punishment is perfect from His point of view and certainly not from our flawed point of view.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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You are right, I do believe as I want because what I believe resonates as truth in the heart and with my god. And, everyone else has the right to believe what is in their heart. But when your belief is spelled out to you by other people, is it really YOUR belief. Or are you just following orders. Maybe there isn't just "one true god". Maybe everyone that is open to it has their own individual, personal god. We don't REALLY know.

Athos,
You have just stated one of the great mysteries about God.
Clearly God's wisdom and understanding is very far beyong that of we mortals.
Another on is "With God all things are possible".
Think about that for awhile!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

cozyk,
Ah but in my case I do know.
God has proven himself to me.
He save my life in Korea and has answered all of my prayers.
That is all the proof I need.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

cozyk,
Ah but in my case I do know.
God has proven himself to me.
He save my life in Korea and has answered all of my prayers.
That is all the proof I need.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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It sounds like you and your god have a wonderful relationship. That is a beautiful thing. I'm happy for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arcura

Athos,
You have just stated one of the great mysteries about God.
Clearly God's wisdom and understanding is very far beyong that of we mortals.
Another on is "With God all things are possible".
Think about that for awhile!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Arcura, when one says "it's all a mystery and far beyond us mortals", this opens up a Pandora's Box of saying just about anything and attributing it to God. Didn't God give us an intellect and brain to wrestle with these things in "the tangle of our mind"?

There is no question that with God all things are possible. But are we to believe that God gave us reasoning power and then to discard that ability and not question?

Yes, I have thought about "that" for more than a while. Many years. I continue to do so.

Peace and kindness to you, too.

cozyk,
I see what you are saying and I have been on the same road that you have with that.
We are created in the image of God, a likeness, if you will.
But we were NOT created IDENTICAL to God in ability.
I believe there is no sin in questioning God; that is seeking answers about Him and what He has done.
That provides us with the opportunity to spiritually grow.
After all we are very young Children.
Even if we lived and grew for hundreds of years as Methuselah did we could not attain the wisdom and knowledge that God has.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

hell is a real place, And while God is love, he sent his Son as a method of being saved from Hell.
If hell was not real, there would be reason for Christ to have come.

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Hell is a real place? God is love? God creates hell so his son is a method of avoiding hell?

If hell is not real, there would be no reason for Christ?

Do you see the incredible inconstencies in your comments?

I have no objection to your believing what you believe, but, please, don't offer it as some sort of rational understanding.

And please don't delete what I write.

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Originally Posted by athos

hell is a real place?? God is love?? God creates hell so his son is a method of avoiding hell??yes, hadies is real. If you don't believe that all you need to do is wait until judgment day. Reading the books of daniel and revelations should give you a clear understanding of what god thinks of sin and those that do not repent will be judged and sent to the lake of fire for all eternity.

if hell is not real, there would be no reason for christ?? that's right hell is for those that choose not to believe in christ

do you see the incredible inconstencies in your comments?not a bit. It is not inconsistent at all. The bible if you believe it is full of very simple advise on how to avoid being sent to hell on judgment day

i have no objection to your believing what you believe, but, please, don't offer it as some sort of rational understanding.what your seeing as unrational is actually the premice for all christianity. God wants us to worship him and to live according to his teachings not doing so is what gets people into trouble. Think of the bible as an instruction manual for us human beings and reading and understanding what it teaches allows us to function normally and in accordance with god's desires for our lives.

and please don't delete what i write.

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God is just, God is fair, God is a jealous God, God hates sin. God condemns sin and his obligated to punish us for our sin according to his word.

Jesus is Love giving his life for us.

It is easy to believe that there is no hell, that is what today's world wants us to believe since then there is no punishment for our sin, but the bible is very clear that the wages of sin is death,

Athos .
I see no inconstencies in what Fr. Chuck said.
Perhaps you do because you want to.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

God is just, God is fair, God is a jealous God, God hates sin. God condemns sin and his obligated to punish us for our sin according to his word.

Jesus is Love giving his life for us.

It is easy to beleive that there is no hell, that is what todays world wants us to beleive since then there is no punishment for our sin, but the bible is very clear that the wages of sin is death,

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What is God jealous of? Isn't that a flaw?

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Originally Posted by cozyk

What is God jealous of? Isn't that a flaw?

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No. In my opinion, it means God is protective of our love.

So you believe in hell but not god?

That's odd, but what are your reasons for not having faith in the first place?

And its normal to question god, heaven, hell. Everyone does.

Sometimes people are scared. And that's okay to be scared.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

cozyk,
God has love if us is why he warns us about false gods.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

kristenicole24,
You asked interesting questions.
I'd like to see the answers.
Fred