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-   -   Biblical Christianity (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=290065)

  • Dec 9, 2008, 06:51 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    As well at least one "infallible(?)" pope who taught heretical doctrine according to your denomination, and was excommunicated for it!



    Your denominational councils.

    This isn't a correct statement. There was only one Pope that was excommunicated for heretical views and then only after he had died. That pronouncement was later found to be improper and withdrawn. I can post a short dissertation if you like?

    JoeT
  • Dec 9, 2008, 06:53 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    This isn't a correct statement. There was only one Pope that was excommunicated for heretical views and then only after he had died. That pronouncement was later found to be improper and withdrawn. I can post a short dissertation if you like?

    JoeT
    So you are telling me that the infallible(?) pope who excommunicated him erred.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 06:56 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    So you are telling me that the infallible(?) pope who excommunicated him erred.
    No but the fallible council did. But fear not, I'm looking it up for you now. I'll have the TRUTH for you in a few minutes.

    JoeT
  • Dec 9, 2008, 06:58 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    So you are telling me that the infallible(?) pope who excommunicated him erred.
    Not every statement made by a Pope is infallible.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:00 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JoeT777 View Post
    No but the fallible council did. But fear not, I’m looking it up for you now. I’ll have the TRUTH for you in a few minutes.

    JoeT
    Ah so your church that you use to infallibly(?) interpret scripture for you erred.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:01 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Akoue View Post
    Not every statement made by a Pope is infallible.
    We agree on that!! I very strongly agree. In fact I would say that none are unless the Bible is being quoted by him directly and in context.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:03 PM
    JoeT777
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    And the claim that using the Bible to interpret the or substantiate the Bible is circular reasoning is based upon false logic because the Bible is not a single document. It would only be circular reasoning if the Bible were a single document, written by one person.

    The Bible:

    1) Is made up of 66 books
    2) Penned through inspiration of the Holy Spirit by many different people, of many different cultures, of many different layers of society, over thousands of years of time.

    The only thing which is singular about the Bible is that the entire Bible is inspired by God and thus has a singular credibility that no other document in the world has or ever has had.
    Boy, you're stuck on 66 books! How do you know they have authority – those 66 books?

    JoeT
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:03 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Ah so your church that you use to infallibly(?) interpret scripture for you erred.
    What has this to do with the interpretation of Scripture? I don't see the connection.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:05 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    We agree on that!!! I very strongly agree. In fact I would say that none are unless the Bible is being quoted by him directly and in context.
    Not every statement made by a Pope is claimed to be infallible.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:06 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Ah so your church that you use to infallibly(?) interpret scripture for you erred.
    Have any copyists, redactors, or translators ever erred?
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:11 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Akoue View Post
    Not every statement made by a Pope is claimed to be infallible.
    That is a good thing. Better is none were.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:12 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    We agree on that!! I very strongly agree.
    Great!

    Quote:
    In fact I would say that none are
    That's because you don't believe Scripture nor Jesus' promise:


    Exodus 7 1 And the Lord said to Moses: Behold I have appointed thee the God of Pharao: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

    Why did God call Moses God? Because He appointed Moses as His representative before Pharoa and the people:
    Exodus 19 9 The Lord said to him: Lo, now will I come to thee in the darkness of a cloud, that the people may hear me speaking to thee, and may believe thee for ever. And Moses told the words of the people to the Lord.

    And what did God do in the New Testament? God also selected a man to represent Him. Simon Bar-Jonah.

    Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    Who is the Rock?

    1 Corinthians 10 4 And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)

    Christ is the Rock!

    And the Rock turned to Simon and said, "YOU ARE ROCK and on this Rock will build my Church"

    So God gave Simon the name that represents God.

    2 Kings 22 2 And he said: The Lord is my rock, and my strength, and my saviour.

    Why? Because Simon now represents God before men.

    Therefore Jesus also gave Him the keys to the Kingdom:
    Matthew 16 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

    And so, the Pope, the successor of Peter, is the representative of God before His People and therefore infallible.

    Jesus said:
    John 20 21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.

    And Jesus was sent to preach and teach infallibly.

    Quote:
    unless the Bible is being quoted by him directly and in context.
    He does that quite often. I recommend his books.

    Sincerely,

    De Maria
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:12 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Akoue View Post
    What has this to do with the interpretation of Scripture? I don't see the connection.
    What role does any specific denominational claim of infallible interpretation have to do with Biblical interpretation? None.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:13 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    That is a good thing. Better is none were.
    Your opinion is noted.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:15 PM
    De Maria
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    What role does any specific denominational claim of infallible interpretation have to do with Biblical interpretation? None.
    We recognize that an infallible Bible needs an infallible interpreter. Otherwise, the grace is nullified.

    What use is it to have an infallible record if there is no infallible interpreter to infallibly interpret the message?
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:15 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    What role does any specific denominational claim of infallible interpretation have to do with Biblical interpretation? None.
    That doesn't anwer my question. You've answered a question with a question. Please explain.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:16 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    That's because you don't believe Scripture nor Jesus' promise
    God promised nothing to any denomination.
    Quote:


    Why did God call Moses God?
    He didn't.

    Ex 7:1-2
    7:1 So the LORD said to Moses: "See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet.
    NKJV

    Quote:
    And what did God do in the New Testament? God also selected a man to represent Him. Simon Bar-Jonah.

    Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
    Odd that you always take that out of context of what was said in context prior to that statement.

    Matt 16:15-18
    15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
    NKJV

    The question was who Jesus is, and Jesus said that it was the testimony on which He would build His church. Paul alter said that there can be no other foundation than Jesus Christ - not Peter, but Jesus.

    Quote:
    Who is the Rock?

    1 Corinthians 10 4 And all drank the same spiritual drink; (and they drank of the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.)

    Christ is the Rock!
    Exactly - ONLY Jesus.
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:17 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Akoue View Post
    That doesn't anwer my question. You've answered a question with a question. Please explain.
    Back into repeating a question after being answered, eh?
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:18 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by De Maria View Post
    We recognize that an infallible Bible needs an infallible interpreter.
    God provided the Holy Spirit, and multiple different books of the Holy Scripture which was inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    Do you think that we need opinions of men in addition to God?
  • Dec 9, 2008, 07:21 PM
    Akoue
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Back into repeating a question after being answered, eh?
    You dodged a bullet when the thread closed.

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