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Why would anyone want to remain UNDER the Law when they know the freedom in Christ? Those in Christ don't limit ourselves to ONE DAY in our worship of our loving God. We see His wonderful power in what He accomplished in six day, but we honor that creation every day.
On the sabbath issue it come down to loyalty
The two institution that was establish at creation was marriage and the sabbath. The Ten commandment #4 the only one that starts
Off with REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY, so it does matter what day you keep. Good website is www.sabbathtruth.com/or.org
Quote:
Originally Posted by lighthousemd
Again, you are quoting and trying to live by the Law, not under grace.
MK2;27 "Jesus said unto them," the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of man is Lord even on the sabbath""
If my interpretation of this passage is correct, it tells me that it does not matter two whits what day/days you choose to worship the Lord on.
After the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus the disciples met on the first day of the week (Sunday) to remember him or break bread, or have communion. I think DeMaria gave the verse I am thinking of:
Acts 20:7 (King James Version)
7And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them,
That is the reason we meet on Sundays... that and the fact that we are no longer under the law. We are under a new covenent.
It is amazing to me how from one thread to another, The Word can be the Truth in what we search our hearts to find and hold stedfast in doing.
We have to consider that what one individual's conscience mind has found as right and wrong, does become the conviction which is a strong belief within their heart.
We are told not to judge the hearts of others. And this does example how each has their own conscience mind, and the heart which Christ knows.
Should anyone elect to fast from meat that was not created to receive as noted in law. Then we are not to judge..
Should anyone care to put forth the act of righteousness which is considered works of man, I feel they walk the best that they can in the attempt of walking in Christ in His way chosen of the heart. It is known as, Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.
Christ walked in His Father way, under the law of command in perfection to obedience. We acknowledge that we by Christ are given the same command of obedience by the teachings of the law, and told to follow His way, hearing His voice. Christ said, He would put the law into the hearts of those who follow. The law being the light under my feet, and the word is the lamp. We are to rejoice in the lamp of righteousness for He is the way. (2 Sa 22:29)
Can be still sin of the flesh, yes, but by the grace of God we are saved.
Our warfare on earth is noted in: II Corinthains 10
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Christ fulfilled by allowing us to see His Way. His walk on earth.
My heart of convcition is to walk in Rest of Christ who is my sabbath everyday.. But I also know in my heart that Sunday is a day of praise and worship within the house of God.. Those that traveled in the days of scripture did so as a heart felt desire to hear the Word of God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willyb78
With all due respect to your statement and to your beliefs I am of the opinion that you are not actually fully meaning what you say.
In the first place we have to remember the O.T. was written (or, if you so prefer, inspired by God) so that the people living 4 or 5000 years ago could understand what it was saying. The N.T is different, because Jesus’ Message, through the Gospels, is as clear now as it was 2000 years ago.
The question of historical accuracy is sometimes a complicated one, and there are many reasons why each instance deserves to be treated on its own merit.
Quote:
“Moreover, it is dangerous to do too much speculating about ancient history when we attempt to reconstruct the settings of and allusions in biblical literature. For example, Gamaliel may well have been referring to a now unknown Theudas. His audience may have known the reference but we, separated by millennia, may have no extant record of the person or event. With this particular example, there is the added complexity that Gamaliel is quoted as having said this, but he is not affirmed as having been accurate in his historical data. If Gamaliel said this but was wrong in his chronology, it would not impugn the truth of the text”
Regarding authorship, some relies on tradition, some on internal evidence. It may help to remember that until the modern age of printing, most information was not transmitted in writing. Moreover, scholars strongly debate the dating of references both within and outside the Bible. If it is correct to say that the first written reference to Moses’ authorship of the Pentateuch is post-exilic, that does not mean that it was not a traditional attribution long before then. In any event, there are internal references to Mosaic authorship in the Pentateuch, such as the mention of Moses writing down all that the Lord had told him (Ex. 24:4; cf. Deut. 31:9,22). Presumably, this refers to a large body of material, such as the book of the covenant and the regulations for building the temple, among other things. Also, to say that Moses is the author of the Pentateuch is not necessarily to say that he penned every word it, but may include the idea that the books were substantially composed and approved under his direction and authorization. In any event, most interpreters understand Jesus and the New Testament to confirm Mosaic authorship (see Mark 10:5; 12:19-27 [//Luke 20:28-38]; John 1:45; 5:46). The need for belief in Mosaic authorship pertains not only to submission to New Testament revelation (if one agrees in this understanding of the New Testament), but also to properly locating the Pentateuch in its historical setting in order that its purpose and meaning might be properly understood and applied”.
Unquote:
You probably DO NOT BELIEVE that the creation was just a matter of 6 days, as the Genesis mentions, do you? Only the age of our planet has been estimated to be of 4 billion years...
It may be that there really was an Adam and Eve,, although it is hard to believe the were the very first humans, now that there is scientific evidence of human beings close to a million years ago, in Kenya.
It may be, instead, that the Adam and Eve story is a way to
describe the actual, true condition of the human race as one that is not as God intended us to be.
Come what may, this should interfere at all in our faith in God, which is way above these inaccuracies due, as explained above, to the time when the Scriptures were written.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
The Bible says that the day of the Sabbath no longer matters and that no one is to judge anyone with respect to the day of the Sabbath, because the Sabbath was prophetic of the coming of Christ and is fulfilled in Him.
Col 2:15-17
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
NKJV
All that says to me is that we shouldn't judge others on those things. I agree that we shouldn't judge others, but this text says nothing about changing of the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.
I quoted Tj3 here as well as your response willyb, because I wanted to try and bridge the two ideas presented here. Tj3, I partly agree with your statement above because I think that the spirit of what you are trying to say is that we are gentiles and all of the rules and regulations in the Old Testament are not relevant to believing gentiles... the moral commandments are absolutely relevant but the Sabbath was included as part of the moral commandments given because it was inextricably linked to the covenant. My feeling is that the Sabbath is still in effect today—for the Jews. Here's why I believe that it is. If you refer to Exodus 31, God tells Moses to instruct the Jews in the following way:Quote:
Originally Posted by willyb78
"And the Lord said to Moses, 'You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the Lord, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'
And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God."
If you carefully read this section of the text, God says that it is a "covenant forever" and a sign "forever between me and the people of Israel." I don't think that the Sabbath was done away with for the Jews, this is why many still keep it today. Now, we are talking about something divisive as obviously most Jews do not believe that Christ is their Messiah. But when God removes the "veil" that is over their eyes, the day will come when they will recognize him as their Messiah and worship him (I mean collectively as a nation, not that individual Jews cannot be believers...clearly there are). That time has not come yet. It seems to me that the celebratory festivals and the Sabbath that God instituted under the Old Covenant have not been done away with. The sacrificial system was "the shadow of the things to come." Moreover, the Sabbath was never for gentiles to keep because as the Exodus account says, God declared it to be a sign between him and the people of Israel only. It was never relevant to gentiles and it will never be. So, quite frankly, to ask the question: is it Saturday or Sunday is really irrelevant. And that is where I also agree with Tj3.
Lastly, I guess the question that emerges then is "what then?" What are gentiles supposed to do? I don't think a big deal is really made about when we are to gather together in the name of Christ. It is as Tj3 said, "one esteems one day greater than the other. But let each man be convinced in his own mind." If God has received one as his servant, who are we to judge the other in such matters? The admonition from the writer of Hebrews is succint and profound, "let us not forsake the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some is. But exhort each other, and so much more as you see the day of Christ approaching." To me, we are exhorted to assemble ourselves with others of faith and encourage each other in our walk because the life of faith is difficult and challenging and sometimes we want to quit. We must not forsake meeting with other believers because to do so must mean that somehow we have lost interest in being a disciple of Jesus Christ... and that is a travesty.
So, if we make a big deal about what day we assemble together, it is a big deal because it is a big deal to us. But if we look to the New Testament for a clear direction on what day we are to get together, do you know what answer we get? Silence. Because there's no answer; so I presume the answer is, whatever day as a body of believers we decide to meet. It may even be that we decide not to meet every week. It may be that we decide to meet more than once a week. I don't think it matters but it is more a matter of the collective conscience of the people who avail themselves as members of the believing community to which they are apart of.
That is my opinion, anyway.
Why don't you just worship everyday to be safe? But seriously though, why in the world would it matter which day you worship God. Were the days even broken down into cycles of seven 24 hour segments in the Bible days?Quote:
Originally Posted by willyb78
Not judging the heart of conviction, I feel it would be for love in God and wanting to do His Will verses the man's own prideful wayQuote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Did the sun go up and did the sun go down? I believe we can say a day was established.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Genesis 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And did God say, this will be the first day, and after the seventh day, start over again with... the first day?Quote:
If it matters that much and is that important, maybe He should have been made more clear and we wouldn't even have to have this debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Yes, the sun went up, and down BUT did they start over after it had gone up and down seven times in a row??Quote:
Did the sun go up and did the sun go down? I believe we can say a day was established.
Quote:
[Quote:
B]Genesis 1:5[/B] And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
God words are that these 7 days would be the generations to the heaven and earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
So like our own age in time and days are seen in the generations of our family.
The objection would be did God name day one as Monday, or Tuesday ect.. because we understand only that day 7 was the Sabbath.
The calendar of days, months was differenct then from what we use today. As are the zodiac signs at different periods of our's used today. Yet if you care to reference the original of that day, it is possible to see it did exist.
Be assured the days go to years by what God has said.:
Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
This of course would a different thread...
willyb78,
In the bible when it speaks of the Christians gathering together on the first day of the week to break bread it means that they worshioed together and celebrated the Eucharist communion.
2000 years later we still break bread together on Sunday.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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