Well again not sure where 80 years keep coming up, since the writters did not leave to be over 100. And the writers were putting down what they saw.. I will assume the error is that those not schooled in the Bible, see a writing at a date or 80 AD and assume it is 80 years after death but it is not since the @ date of Chrsit Death was 30 AD.

So at best they wrote them 30 to 40 years after Christs death.

Also we have writings of other people during that 40 to 80 year perild after Christ, such as Papias who was a pupil of Apostel John, who wrote the Explanation of the Lords Discourses

Let me see a non belever comes here asking a question that they don't believe is true and when they get the correct Christian answers (they did ask for it from a Chrsitian perspective, then they attack the correct Christian answers, not accept it as what Christians believe.

I do have to ask, was this a bait, since they appear to have already known what a christian believed? Did they merely want to bait good christian answers to merely attack.

If you don't like and don't want Chrsitian answers and don't want the bible quoted, don't ask questoins on the Christian forum

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I do have to ask, was this a bait, since they appear to have already known what a christian beleived ?? did they merely want to bait good christian answers to merely attack.

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I think his question was meant to be more of not if jesus existed but how do you reconcile the story of jesus with all the other stories that are almost identical?

Yeahh Jesus Does Exist! Accept That He Is The Son Of God And He Died To Save Us... And You Will Be Saved.

Its True.

I think Hank is just as likely to deliver on his promise.
YouTube - Kissing Hank's - The Movie
Some NSFW language.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Well again not sure where 80 years keep comming up, since the writters did not leave to be over 100. And the writers were putting down what they saw.. I will assume the error is that those not schooled in the Bible, see a writing at a date or 80 AD and assume it is 80 years after death but it is not since the @ date of Chrsit Death was 30 AD.

So at best they wrote them 30 to 40 years after Christs death.

Also we have writings of other people during that 40 to 80 year perild after Christ, such as Papias who was a pupil of Apostel John, who wrote the Explanation of the Lords Discourses

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First off the 80 years comes from this. Mark id the first written the rest come from Mark, In Mark it mentions the destruction of solomon's temple which was 70 AD but there was a Christian writer, ignatius (not sure of the spelling) who would have had access to any of the Gospels and did not mention them leading some to believe that they could have been written later, though no one knows for sure and the writers were not the apostles more than likely.

No this is not bait, I would not do that. It is true I am an Atheist but my question was did jesus ever exist. For me there are only two possibilties. He was either a myth which I am leaning toward or he did if fact exist, but was only a man and those miracles were copied from stories of the gods all predating Jesus. I was hoping for more objective answers but that would never happen with a Christian who believes this bible to be the word of god
They refuse to open there minds I was a Christian for many years but once I started reading from scholars I sarted to see things differently and I never looked back

workerbee

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Originally Posted by michealb

I think Hank is just as likely to deliver on his promise.
YouTube - Kissing Hank's - The Movie
Some NSFW language.

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Haha, that was good. I think the analogy/parody may get lost on some.

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Originally Posted by workerbee

First off the 80 years comes from this. Mark id the first written the rest come from Mark, In Mark it mentions the destruction of solomon's temple which was 70 AD but there was a Christian writer, ignatius (not sure of the spelling) who would have had access to any of the Gospels and did not mention them leading some to believe that they could have been written later, though no one knows for sure and the writers were not the apostles more than likely.

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None of that makes sense. Maybe you could rewrite it. The only thing I could understand was Ignatius' name. And since St. Ignatius was taught by the Apostles and frequently spoke of the Gospels, I have no idea where anyone could possibly get the impression he didn't know of them.

St. Ignatius said:
... When I heard some saying, If I do not find it in the ancient Scriptures, I will not believe the Gospel; on my saying to them, It is written, they answered me, That remains to be proved. But to me Jesus Christ is in the place of all that is ancient: His cross, and death, and resurrection, and the faith which is by Him, are undefiled monuments of antiquity; by which I desire, through your prayers, to be justified... But the Gospel possesses something transcendent [above the former dispensation], viz. the appearance of our Lord Jesus Christ, His passion and resurrection. For the beloved prophets announced Him, but the Gospel is the perfection of immortality. All these things are good together, if you believe in love...
CHURCH FATHERS: Epistle to the Philadelphians (St. Ignatius)

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No this is not bait, I would not do that.

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So far it looks like bait.

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It is true I am an Atheist but my question was did jesus ever exist.

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And the answer has been "yes."

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For me there are only two possibilties. He was either a myth which I am leaning toward or he did if fact exist, but was only a man and those miracles were copied from stories of the gods all predating Jesus. I was hoping for more objective answers but that would never happen with a Christian who believes this bible to be the word of god
They refuse to open there minds

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We see it the other way. We believe you won't open your mind to understand even the meaning of evidence.

Tell me, since when is eyewitness testimony not considered evidence?

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I was a Christian for many years but once I started reading from scholars I sarted to see things differently and I never looked back

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You were a Christian. And you knew the answer to the question you asked. So it was bait. Gotcha!

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workerbee

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De Maria

Workerbee, if you had ever been in attendance at a genuine Pentecostal meeting where the Holy Ghost was evidently there, you would never have asked your question. Such meetings are rare these days, but can be found. You should examine all evidence before coming to any conclusion.

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Originally Posted by workerbee

First off the 80 years comes from this. mark id the first written the rest come from Mark, In Mark it mentions the destruction of solomon's temple which was 70 AD but there was a Christian writer, ignatius (not sure of the spelling) who would have had access to any of the Gospels and did not mention them leading some to believe that they could have been written later, though no one knows for sure and the writers were not the apostles more than likely.

No this is not bait, i would not do that. It is true i am an Atheist but my question was did jesus ever exist. For me there are only two possibilties. He was either a myth which i am leaning toward or he did if fact exist, but was only a man and those miracles were copied from stories of the gods all predating Jesus. I was hoping for more objective answers but that would never happen with a Christian who believes this bible to be the word of god
they refuse to open there minds I was a Christian for many years but once i started reading from scholars i sarted to see things differently and i never looked back

workerbee

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I am sorry you are incorrect, Mark is believed to have been written from 60 to 70 AD, which would have been 30 to 40 years after Christ death. We have to remember that Christ Death was @ 30 AD not 0 AD.
It is believed Mark was with Peter in Rome whne 1 Peter was written and Marks writing is also believed to have been written in Rome.

Marks writings and his help in writing for Peter is documented by Papias who was a public of the Apostle John

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Originally Posted by Galveston1

Workerbee, if you had ever been in attendance at a genuine Pentecostal meeting where the Holy Ghost was evidently there, you would never have asked your question. Such meetings are rare these days, but can be found. You should examine all evidence before coming to any conclusion.

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Yes, once you see a few people actually cured, once you feel the power of the Word of God in action, there is no doubt in anyone's mind.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I am sorry you are incorrect, Mark is beleived to have been written from 60 to 70 AD, which would have been 30 to 40 years after Christ death. We have to remember that Christ Death was @ 30 AD not 0 AD.
It is beleived Mark was with Peter in Rome whne 1 Peter was written and Marks writting is also beleived to hvae been written in Rome.

Marks writings and his help in writing for Peter is documented by Papias who was a public of the Apostle John

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Yes, it is nice to see some facts being presented. There can be no doubt that there were real eye witnesses to the life of Christ.

Here is a good article that sums up why Jesus doesn't exist.
Did Jesus exist?

Has anyone ever seen or talked to him and if ye av prove it and then I'm sure everyone will believe then

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Originally Posted by michealb

Here is a good article that sums up why Jesus doesn't exist.
Did Jesus exist?

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That article is easily debunked by the very fact that it doesn't recognize the difference between multiple eyewitness testimony which substantiates each other and hearsay.

Hearsay is evidence. But it is almost the weakest type. That is why it is usually inadmissible in court except in certain cases. Hearsy means the witness claims to have heard someone say something pertinent to the case. No substantiation. Nothing except what the one witness says.

A single eyewitness is very strong evidence. The witness declares the sequence of events and can usually provide details which will match the circumstances.

But four eye witnesses who can substantially corroborate each other and which each have their own perspective on the event or case. That is very strong evidence.

So, the article you referenced is essentially "bunk".

Sincerely,

De Maria

So bigfoot, aliens, lockness monster, champ, lizardmen and jersey devil all exist because there is more eye witness testimony for those than for Jesus.

You missed major points in the article that explained why those eye witness accounts aren't good ones. Eye witness accounts have to have other evidence in support of them or they are bunk.

Let me see the men who lived and traveled with Jesus for several years, the trouble is you can say the same on any early person, since they are not here today, those that don't want to accept it as testomony would not accept Jesus if he came down in glory and called them.

Actually no you can't. The problem with Jesus is there are no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts and all the writings about him were done 30 to 40 years after his death during a time when most men only lived into there 30s.

Then there are the multiple stories that Jesus's live seemed to be plagiarized of. For instance the story of Horus.
Horus and the Father as one
Horus, the Father seen in the Son
Horus, light of the world, represented by the symbolical eye, the sign of salvation.
Horus served the way, the truth, the life by name and in person
Horus baptized with water by Anup (Jesus baptized with water by John)
Horus the Good Shepherd
Horus as the Lamb (Jesus as the Lamb)
Horus as the Lion (Jesus as the Lion)
Horus identified with the Tat Cross (Jesus with the cross)
The trinity of Atum the Father, Horus the Son, Ra the Holy Spirit
Horus the avenger (Jesus who brings the sword)
Horus the afflicted one
Horus as life eternal
Twelve followers of Horus as Har-Khutti (Jesus' 12 disciples)

Mark mentions the destruction of Solomon's temple, which I believe is 70 AD some of this is from memory (didn't have time to look itup) but even if it was a bit sooner those stories
Written 30 to 40 years later so what That is a long time. Other gods that turned water into wine or born of a virgin, etc, etc, And there were many were written into those gospels obviously

Galvaston1 , No I have never been to pentecostal(nutjobs) chruch I was at a faith healer ( which did not work I won't get into here) and all of the people annoying ashell That is not me I need PROOF you don't obviously

DeMaria, eyewitness testimony means nothing because we don't know if they saw anything they just might say they were eyewitnesses, if I wrote something that I wanted someone to believe then I would say " believe me I saw this event with my own two eyes, the loch ness monster was here a minute ago, No seriously I saw it with my own two eyes
After 2000 years doesn't prove much I could go into detail but I would be getting off subject which usually happens when discussing religion.

This is getting no where fast

workerbee

Your not going to get anywhere with the people that post on this board. Since religion is based on faith not fact (a fact that even most believers agree with) it doesn't matter if Jesus existed or not because for them no evidence is going to put doubt in their minds. The only thing we can do is push for more general education. Education is by far our best weapon against fanaticals.