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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Why does that make me intolerant?

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Because someone said so, that's why. And if they said so it's bound to be true. I mean seriously, who would know you better than them? :D

I don't get it either Tessy, Christians dare not make a judgment contrary to any politically/culturally/socially correct principle, we're supposed to just sit back and take our licks. The fact that those who condemn you for making such judgments are indeed judging you according to their own biases and beliefs seems to escape them - much like facts that indicate you're a pretty good gal and not who they say you are. I think it all may boil down to those who don't buy into this absolute truth from God thing just can't bear to consider the fact that we (and of course God) just might be right.

Steve

Tessy777

Agree with you.
There are some that even would go so far as to point out that you are TOO tolerant.

Was Jesus "intolerant" when he threw out the money changers in the temple?
No He was right, despite being "intolerant " of them.

In John 8 : - he forgave the adultress [ no one cast stones ] but he states "leave your life of sin."

In john 3: He points out that the woman at the well was cohabitating - Intolerance there ?


Truth is Truth, tolerance does not equal love.

Should a parent be tolerant of a child's drug use?

It does not give Believers the right to point fingers or stones, [ someone's sin might be homosexuality, mine is anger , or lust or porn etc.. ] but to realize we are all sinners in need of His mercy.





Grace and Peace

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Should a parent be tolerant of a child's drug use?

Grace and Peace

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No never be tolerant of a child's drug abuse, but will still love the child with all their hearts, yes ?

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Comments on this post
Tessy777 agrees: Perhaps bogus was offensive...i didn't mean it that way. I mean I believe all true believers are born again.. even if they don't label it as such.

Tess, I truly didn't think you meant it the way it read. No problem. The problem with terms like born again and such is it can make people feel alienated. I never quite understood nor liked the term. I think everytime we repent and are truly sorry, then we may be cleansed again...but sadly, because we are human, only to get dirty all over again.

I also belive that Our Father loves each and everyone of us....deeply. A love that we could never understand. No matter what religion, even if there isn't a religion. He loves us all. Does an earthly father only love his children who behave??

Anyway, no offense taken.

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I call myself a Chirstian.. if someone wants to say I am a "born again" Christain that is OK too. It only means that the Holy Spirit lives in us and he is constantly changing us into HIS likeness. I agree with you, we will NEVER understand, or comprehend His Love. Not here anyway.

You know as I sit and work with many denominations, and read the Nicene Creed, where we see that all Christians are part of the universal church, all are brothers in Christ.

I sit and think of Peter and some of the other followers who demanded for a while that all Christians convert to be Jewish first, since being a Christian required you to be jewish. That was changed but I am sure there were many who sad and said, you know all of those "heathens" are really bogus chrisians.

And the term born again is one of the most abused terms, to some it demands speaking in tounges, to others there has to be a specific sinners prayer said even if you are not baptised first. And to many others the being born again is being baptised. So one has to be careful throwing out words that will mean one thing to a penticostal, another to a baptist and a totally different thing to a catholic.

But in the end, those that have accepted Jesus as their Savior, trust in him for their salvation, and are baptised, they will be saved.
If that is what you are calling born again, great, if not, then not so great.

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Originally Posted by inthebox

Tessy777

Agree with you.
There are some that even would go so far as to point out that you are TOO tolerant.

Was Jesus "intolerant" when he threw out the money changers in the temple?
No He was right, despite being "intolerant " of them.

In John 8 : - he forgave the adultress [ no one cast stones ] but he states "leave your life of sin."

In john 3: He points out that the woman at the well was cohabitating - Intolerance there ?


Truth is Truth, tolerance does not equal love.

Should a parent be tolerant of a child's drug use?

It does not give Believers the right to point fingers or stones, [ someone's sin might be homosexuality, mine is anger , or lust or porn etc.. ] but to realize we are all sinners in need of His mercy.





Grace and Peace

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I agree with you and the truth is... I have to stand firm in my faith... I WANT to stand firm in my faith. I suppose it is intolerance. But.. I'm NOT unkind, I'm not rude, and I don't stand in judgement. I simply speak the truth.

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Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Because someone said so, that's why. And if they said so it's bound to be true. I mean seriously, who would know you better than them? :D

I don't get it either Tessy, Christians dare not make a judgment contrary to any politically/culturally/socially correct principle, we're supposed to just sit back and take our licks. The fact that those who condemn you for making such judgments are indeed judging you according to their own biases and beliefs seems to escape them - much like facts that indicate you're a pretty good gal and not who they say you are. I think it all may boil down to those who don't buy into this absolute truth from God thing just can't bear to consider the fact that we (and of course God) just might be right.

Steve

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Steve,

I knew you'd come to my rescue.. I was getting beat up in here... lol!

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Steve,

I knew you'd come to my rescue.. I was getting beat up in here...lol!

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I may be a little slow, but I eventually get there ;)

John 14:6 "Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

John 3:3 "In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

I believe in God's absolute truth and the authority of His Word. But I don't hate my gay cousin because of it or the person at work that ridicules me because I am a Christian.

Matthew 22:36-40 - "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37 Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'

As Christians, we love God and we love His truth. But we also love others. There seems to be a fine line between standing up for truth and loving others and some Christians get it wrong and make a bad name for the rest of us. Out of love, when we stand up for absolute truth because as Luther said "our conscience is held captive by the Word of God" it is unfair to call us intolerant, narrow minded, or arrogant.

Kevin,
John 14:6 is my favorite verse... it hangs in my living room. Can I say that here... or is that verse too.. INTOLERANT?

Just to clarify once and for all.

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Originally Posted by intolerant

1. not tolerating or respecting beliefs, opinions, usages, manners, etc., different from one's own, as in political or religious matters; bigoted.
2. unable or unwilling to tolerate or endure (usually fol. by of): intolerant of very hot weather.
–noun
3. an intolerant person; bigot.

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Quite often used with

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Originally Posted by Bigot

a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

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I hope I have made my point for the final time.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But in the end, those that have accepted Jesus as thier Savior, trust in him for thier salvation, and are baptised, they will be saved.

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And that's what it really all comes down to, isn't it?

As for the rest of this...

I, too, believe in Absolute Truth... however, I have a sneaking suspicion that my Absolute Truth greatly varies from yours.

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Kevin,
John 14:6 is my favorite verse...it hangs in my living room. Can i say that here...or is that verse too..INTOLERANT??

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See Tessy, now I could be wrong, but right there sounds like sarcasm to me. How is that loving? Look, I am so imperfect I can not even stand it myself, so I never look into someone else's garden as I have to many weeds in my own. So I am not pointing a finger at you, I am just pointing out that none of us are perfect, and it is by our words and actions that maybe we can help each other out.

I happen to be Catholic. It works for me. It is comfortable for me. But I have said before, I think all relgions are roads to God and not one road better then the other. Yes, I do realize that we need to accept Jesus as our loving saviour and of course I do, but I still am so imperfect and only can hope that through loving each other we can make all of this just a little easier.

And I repeat... beleive you me... I am far from perfect and stand in judgment of no one. My Mom happens to go to chapel every day. And she tells anyone who will listen, it is not because she is good, it is because she is having such a hard time trying to be good and goes to Chapel to get strength. It has made her a great deal more peaceful.

Anyway, hope I didn't take this thread off the tracks.

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Kevin,
John 14:6 is my favorite verse...it hangs in my living room. Can i say that here...or is that verse too..INTOLERANT??

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Sarcasm or not, you shouldn't have to feel the need to even ask such a question... considering that "tolerance" dictates that you have the right to quote that verse all you want. But then, those who advocate tolerance tend to only advocate tolerance for some.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

See Tessy, now I could be wrong, but right there sounds like sarcasm to me. How is that loving? Look, I am so imperfect I can not even stand it myself, so I never look into someone else's garden as I have to many weeds in my own. So I am not pointing a finger at you, I am just pointing out that none of us are perfect, and it is by our words and actions that maybe we can help each other out.

I happen to be Catholic. It works for me. It is comfortable for me. But I have said before, I think all relgions are roads to God and not one road better then the other. Yes, I do realize that we need to accept Jesus as our loving saviour and of course I do, but I still am so imperfect and only can hope that through loving each other we can make all of this just a little easier.

And I repeat....beleive you me....I am far from perfect and stand in judgment of no one. My Mom happens to go to chapel every day. And she tells anyone who will listen, it is not because she is good, it is because she is having such a hard time trying to be good and goes to Chapel to get strength. It has made her a great deal more peaceful.

Anyway, hope I didn't take this thread off the tracks.

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Yes, there was sacrasm there!! But I Didn't"T write the Bible AND those were Jesus' Words not MINE. My point? I believe is clear....that verse isn't very "tolerant" of other paths to God. I didn't say it... Jesus did.

Allheart, your thoughts about religion are nice... but they can't be backed up with TRUTH. I'm not being mean. I am just saying... the TRUTH. Jesus is the TRUTH... those were HIS words. Not mine. (I'm referring to John 14:6)

I use sarcasm to be humorus... not rude or unloving. It is OK if you don't like that kind of humor...

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Yes, there was sacrasm there!!! But I DIDN"T write the Bible AND those were Jesus' Words not MINE. My point? I believe is clear....that verse isn't very "tolerant" of other paths to God. I didn't say it...Jesus did.

Allheart, your thoughts about religion are nice...but they can't be backed up with TRUTH. I'm not being mean. I am just saying...the TRUTH. Jesus is the TRUTH....those were HIS words. not mine.

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Tessy, I know you are not trying to be mean. I do believe that to be true. But I honestly don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and I promise, I am not being flip. I really don't understand, and to be honest, not sure I want to.

You are right, I never have a bible passage handy to back up my beliefs. When I went to school we didn't have bible study. I only can share what I have been taught and what is in my heart now and when I pray. Yes, Jesus is the truth and a beautiful truth of love.

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Originally Posted by Allheart

Tessy, I know you are not trying to be mean. I do believe that to be true. But I honestly don't have a clue as to what you are talking about and I promise, I am not being flip. I really don't understand, and to be honest, not sure I want to.

You are right, I never have a bible passage handy to back up my beliefs. When I went to school we didn't have bible study. I only can share what I have been taught and what is in my heart now and when I pray. Yes, Jesus is the truth and a beautiful truth of love.

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John 14:6... Jesus is talking... I am the way, the truth and the life No man comes to the Father but by me.

He didn't say, I am A way... he said I am THE way. This statement that He made doesn't sound very tolerant to your idea that all paths lead to the Father.

Please don't read that and get offended. I didn't say it.. Jesus said it and I believe HIM.

Yes Tess, I do remember that verse. I always thought it was... " I am the way, the truth and the Light, no man comes to the Father except through me.

Yes almost exact to yours. And yes, Jesus said it and no I am not offended. But Jesus said it with a loving tongue, not a hammer to the head (not saying that is what you are doing).

Jesus was and is a beautiful, peaceful and loving soul, that we should try and emmulate. Through love we can bring each other to the Father. I guess I just fear that if it is beleived that God can reject one of us, what is to stop me from being rejected. "There before the grace of God go I". Do you know what I am trying to say, Tessy, we have the same danger of not being in God's loving light as everyone else. Every day, every minute is a challenge and I believe it is only by loving one another that we can truly know God's love.

I seroiusly serioulsy seriously doubt that Jesus's intention was to alienate anyone. Sometimes it gives the appearance that I am on the right side of the fence and you are not. Tess, none of us are ever always on the right side of the fence, to think otherwise may be worse then even knowing there is a fence.

Gosh, hope this make sense, it is getting late. :)

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

You know as I sit and work with many denominations, and read the Nicene Creed, where we see that all Christians are part of the universal church, all are brothers in Christ.

I sit and think of Peter and some of the other followers who demanded for a while that all Christians convert to be Jewish first, since being a Christian required you to be jewish. That was changed but I am sure there were many who sad and said, you know all of those "heathens" are really bogus chrisians.

And the term born again is one of the most abused terms, to some it demands speaking in tounges, to others there has to be a specific sinners prayer said even if you are not baptised first. And to many others the being born again is being baptised. So one has to be careful throwing out words that will mean one thing to a penticostal, another to a baptist and a totally different thing to a catholic.

But in the end, those that have accepted Jesus as thier Savior, trust in him for thier salvation, and are baptised, they will be saved.
If that is what you are calling born again, great, if not, then not so great.

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Dude. You obviously missed my point... my point was that if you are a believer in Jesus Christ and own him as savior and LORD... you ARE born again. There is no such things as a Christian who isn't born again. The "born again" process is what God does the minute we believe... we are sealed with his Spirit. It is like me saying.. I am a woman but I'm not human. What does that even mean?? That is why I called the term "non born again believer" BOGUS.

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Originally Posted by Tessy777

Dude. you obviously missed my point....my point was that if you are a believer in Jesus Christ and own him as savior and LORD...you ARE born again. There is no such things as a Christian who isn't born again. The "born again" process is what God does the minute we believe...we are sealed with his Spirit. It is like me saying..I am a woman but I'm not human. What does that even mean???? That is why i called the term "non born again believer" BOGUS.

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Tessy, you didn't just call Fr. Chuck "dude", did you ? Oh my.

Goodnight everyone. Pleasant dreams.