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Originally Posted by JoeT777

Key words are being used here; I wondered when we would get to this. Who’s "standard of doctrine"? We wouldn't be talking about your "standard of doctrine" would we. Will we be discussing it here?

JoeT

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It is the Christian standard of doctrine. Is it not yours?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I assumed that you understood Christian salavtion from a scriptural perspective. If you do not understand these basics, I can understand why this discussion has been so difficult for you.

James 4:5
5 Or do you think that the Scripture says in vain, "The Spirit who dwells in us yearns jealously"?
NKJV

Now what about my question - what do you think that the gift of the Holy Spirit is in Acts 2:38.

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Yeah, this doesn't tell me what "indwell" means. Is this some kind of recent neologism.

Here's what James 4.5 says: "Or do you suppose that it is for nothing that the scripture says, 'God yearns jealously for the spirit that he has made to dwell in us [phthonon epipothei to pneuma ho katokisen en hemin]."

And you think this is talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit? It doesn't say anything about that. It's talking about the pneuma which God has put into each of us. (God breathed into Adam his pneuma--all living things, even non-believers and Catholics, have that.) Your confused about Scripture *again*.

I just read again acts 10 and it does say that the Holy Spirit cam upon Corneleous and others so Peter had them baptized so the could receive the Holy Spirit.
So my statement that a person can be inspired by the Holy Spirit before being baptized stands as a true biblical fact.
Fred

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Originally Posted by Tj3

And what do you think that the gift of the Holy Spirit is?

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The Holy Spirit is God. And God gives Himself to us repeatedly.

Do you believe that God can only give Himself to us once? If so, where does Scripture say that?

Sincerely,

De Maria

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Originally Posted by Akoue

Yeah, this doesn't tell me what "indwell" means. Is this some kind of recent neologism.

Here's what James 4.5 says: "Or do you suppose that it is for nothing that the scripture says, 'God yearns jealously for the spirit that he has made to dwell in us [phthonon epipothei to pneuma ho katokisen en hemin]."

And you think this is talking about the gift of the Holy Spirit? It doesn't say anything about that. It's talking about the pneuma which God has put into each of us. (God breathed into Adam his pneuma--all living things, even non-believers and Catholics, have that.) Your confused about Scripture *again*.

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It sounds to me like you are confused. If you were to undertake a study of the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, it would be very beneficial in helping you understand this topic.

John 7:38-39
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV

De Maria,
Very good question.
Fred

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Scripture is the standard of doctrine.

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Fine. But you keep *misunderstanding* it! It looks to me like your standard of doctrine is a really, really bad translation. Maybe enroll in an intro. Ancient Greek class.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

Maybe you should explain the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to Akoue. He does not understand what this means in Christian doctrine.

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First I'd bet your next pay check that he knows more about biblical interpretation than both of us put together. You might recall, he's the professor! But, how would I know what "indwelling" is, I'm Catholic; Catholics "outdwell"

JoeT

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Originally Posted by Tj3

It is the Christian standard of doctrine. Is it not yours?

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Yes, it is. Along with Tradition. And Magisterium.

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Originally Posted by arcura

I just read again acts 10 and it does say that the Holy Spirit cam upon Corneleous and others so Peter had them baptized so the could receive the Holy Spirit.

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That is quite a version of the Bible that you have there. I have read the passage in many different versions and never found one which corrupted the verse like that.

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
NKJV

Acts 10:47 clearly speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit in the past tense, and the water baptism is yet to come.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Yes, it is. Along with Tradition. And Magisterium.

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I stick to the word of God. I do not add the words of men to it.

Joe.
LOL
Fred

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Originally Posted by Tj3

That is quite a version of the Bible that you have there. I have read the passage in many different versions and never found one which corrupted the verse like that.

Acts 10:47-48
47 Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?"
NKJV

Acts 10:47 clearly speaks of receiving the Holy Spirit in the past tense, and the water baptism is yet to come.

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But it doesn't say, "have been saved as we have." So why do you add that to Scripture.
Since even the Baptized fall away.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

It sounds to me like you are confused. If you were to undertake a study of the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer, it would be very beneficial in helping you understand this topic.

John 7:38-39
38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
NKJV

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How does anything you say here show me that I've misread James 4.5? "Undertake a study of the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer"? But that would be extra-biblical; I'd be appealing to something other than Scripture. Wouldn't I then be guilty of entertaining a private interpretation?

This is a lovely passage from John. It says that those who believe *WILL* receive the Holy Spirit.

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

First I'd bet your next pay check that he knows more about biblical interpretation than both of us put together. You might recall, he’s the professor!

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He claims to be, but he has missed on some basic Greek, some basic logic and does not understand the Biblical doctrine of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. So if he is a professor, he is not one that I would seek if I were still in university.

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Originally Posted by Akoue

How does anything you say here show me that I've misread James 4.5? "Undertake a study of the role of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer"?

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You were thinking of going outside the Bible? I wasn't.

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This is a lovely passage from John. It says that those who believe *WILL* receive the Holy Spirit.

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As did those in Acts 10.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

But it doesn't say, "have been saved as we have." So why do you add that to Scripture.
Since even the Baptized fall away.

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Do you believe that the Holy Spirit can indwell the unsaved?

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

First I'd bet your next pay check that he knows more about biblical interpretation than both of us put together. You might recall, he’s the professor! But, how would I know what "indwelling" is, I'm Catholic; Catholics "outdwell"

JoeT

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Joe,

I'd give you a greenie, but it won't let me (like I think you really care about greenies). But, honestly, I'm learning a lot from you and Fred and De Maria. Fine faithful souls all!

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I stick to the word of God. I do not add the words of men to it.

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Tradition is the Word of God. Jesus established Tradition and wrote not a word of Scripture. And the New Testament arose from Jesus' Tradition. And Magisterium, the Teaching Church, another Tradition established by Jesus (Matt 28:20) teaches the Word of God.

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Originally Posted by De Maria

Yes, it is. Along with Tradition. And Magisterium.

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Nice response, that’s twice in one night – that’s all you get!

Semper Fi