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I think that when a person accuses one of judging, and judges that person in so doing, that is called hypocrisy.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
Now, I can understand that you feel convicted when I quote scripture - God's word as a way of doing that, but take that up with God.
We follow Jesus and the Apostles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
God said that our faithfulness was made manifest by our works.Quote:
depends solely on the faithfulness of God, not on the works of men.
James 2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Exactly. We have no righteousness, and when we who are saved do good works, we receive crowns as rewards that we later toss at the feet of Him who rightly desires the honour for even our good works.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
Kindly point me to the post where you explained in a detailed way my error regarding Eph.2.8-9. I've re-read the thread and seem to have missed it. You know, the one where you explain to me that you didn't overlook the semicolon between the clauses, didn't get the reference of "it" in v.8 wrong, etc. Yeah, I'll stop asking if you can point me to that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Again,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
1 Corinthians 4: 3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.
I will await the Just Judge.
4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.
So you are now into falsifying what I said to defend your position?Quote:
My gospelQuote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
Is dishonesty and fraud one of the good works of following your god?
Yes, you will be judged by your works!
To quote is one thing. The Pharisees did that. To understand it is something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
You did not stop when I responded before. My children used to use this tactic when they did not get their way when they were very young. They grew up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Is that a concession?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Exactly. Some people do study it to understand, others just claim that they are right and everyone else is wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
I have spent a large part of my life studying scripture and submitting my beliefs to it.
It would be very easy to put this to rest for all to see. Please indicate the # of the post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Not at all - scripture does say that we will be judged by our works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
For those who depend upon anything by the work of the cross for their salvation, they will be judged by their works. One sin and they have condemned themselves because they placed their hope in works.
Those who put their faith solely in the cross of Christ will be judge by their works to determine what crowns they will receive, crowns that we will later throw at the feet of Him who alone merits credit even for our good works.
Studying is one thing. The Pharisees did that. Understanding is something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Again, that is your gospel and you are becoming very eloquent in preaching your personal gospel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
But Jesus Gospel says that we must do good works or we will be condemned:
That means that only those that do the will of the Father will enter heaven.Quote:
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Come you who are blessed and inherit...Quote:
Matt 25 34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For, means because.Quote:
35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
So, why did they inherit the Kingdom. Because when He was hungry they gave Him meat etc.
etc.Quote:
36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
And they asked, "Lord when did we do those things for you?Quote:
37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? Or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? Or naked, and clothed thee?
39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
And the Lord said, when you did it to your brethren.Quote:
40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you,.
Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
So the message is clear. Salvation is contingent upon your doing good works for your neighbor. And if you keep reading you will see that not doing these good works will cause you to wind up condemned.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Akoue,
He did not do that no matter what he claims to have done because he either cannot or refuses to do so.
The evidence is here on this thread that Tj3 has not done so but make the false claim that he has.
Typical of his posting style.
Fred
After several hundred posts, if you cared so little after the number of times that I tried to discuss it and you cared so little about a real discussion, why it is somehow my responsibility to search those hundreds of posts? Especially when you attitude has not improved and I still see no desire for a real discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
I'm glad that you realize that. Understanding does not come from those who are so arrogant to thing that they are right and anyone who disagrees is a "goofus". That was how the Pharisees viewed their position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
And the post is at?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Since that isn't Catholic doctrine, we don't need to worry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
That's Catholic doctrine.Quote:
Those who put their faith solely in the cross of Christ will be judge by their works to determine what crowns they will receive, crowns that we will later throw at the feet of Him who alone merits credit even for our good works.
Now, how about those who profess to be faithful but don't do the works which God prepared from the beginning?
The gospel of Jesus Christ, not mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
John 3:14-18Quote:
But Jesus Gospel says that we must do good works or we will be condemned
14 And as Moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
NKJV
Okay. I trust in the cross. You trust in your denomination. Let me know how that works out for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
I know. We've all been waiting, and reminding him, since #13.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
De Maria,
That is another superb post by you.
Good works ARE necessary so the bible says in MANY ways and passages.
Fred
Really? It's the word "goofus" that got under your skin?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Right, no salvation without faith. Who denied that we can be saved without faith? Certainly nobody on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Good. But then there are those who do not trust in Jesus alone, but place their faith in part or in whole on their own works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Nope. It is the self-righteous attitude that I find offensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
Okay, no more "goofus", then. And where's that post?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
But that is just one verse. Believing we must obey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Romans 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Therefore, if we believe we must be baptized in obedience to Christ's command:
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If we believe we must obey Christ's commands:
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
If we believe, we must patiently continue in good work:
Romans 2: 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Those who believe are accompanied by works:
Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Only the demons believe without acting upon that belief:
James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
We work because we believe:
Hebrews 11:17
By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,
We obey because we believe:
Hebrews 11:8
By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Therefore, you are teaching a false gospel because you don't understand what it means to believe.
Sincerely,
I'm not the one telling everyone that he's saved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
So you drop one symptom of the attitude, and somehow that obligates me to search 540 posts for you to find that which you could not care less about yesterday?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
I'm sorry to hear that. I am saved and would be more than willing to share with you how that happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akoue
It is more than one verse. You need to read what Galatians 3 says about the purpose of the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
Gal 3:19-25
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one. 21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
NKJV
If you are still under the law, then you have not found yet the purpose of the law.
You evaded the question. I'll post it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
For those who depend upon anything by the work of the cross for their salvation, they will be judged by their works. One sin and they have condemned themselves because they placed their hope in works.Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
Not at all - scripture does say that we will be judged by our works.
Since that isn't Catholic doctrine, we don't need to worry.
That's Catholic doctrine.Quote:
Quote:
Those who put their faith solely in the cross of Christ will be judge by their works to determine what crowns they will receive, crowns that we will later throw at the feet of Him who alone merits credit even for our good works.
Now, how about those who profess to be faithful but don't do the works which God prepared from the beginning?
__________________
I'm not asking you to like me. I'm asking you for the number of the post. If you'd rather not provide that, then just explain to me how I got Eph.2.8-9 wrong. What was my mistake?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
I've already read it. And its besides the point. Abraham proved his justice because he was obedient before the Law of Moses was even on the radar:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Genesis 26:5
Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Akoue,
Point well made.
It's sad that it will be ignored.
The proof that works are necessary along with faith for salvation is in the bible many times in many passages, but so-called literal bible believers do NOT believe it.
My question is why?
Why do they not believe that works ARE necessary when the bible says that they are.
The only answer I have come up with to that question is that it has taught by the Catholic Church from year one and it is one of the Catholic teachings that is fashionable for fundamentalists to reject.
Fred
How, when you can't even explain to me my error regarding Eph.2.8-9. (Notice I'm not asking you to explain my errors regarding Tituas 3.5. Jn. 3.5. James 2.4-5, etc. I'll set those undischarged promissory notes of yours to one side until you answer the question I've been asking since #13--and which I asked you also on the other thread a couple of weeks ago. You didn't answer it there either.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
We don't want your prescription. God is our Judge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
You may be on to something there, Fred.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
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