Ask Me Help Desk - Who are the evil ones who say Lord, Lord?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Are you saying that you have obeyed God's law perfectly?

I wonder why you want to induce us to judge before the time, while Scripture is clear:

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

You didn't answer my question, so I'll rephrase it: Why did Christ give it as a law (nomos) that we are to love one another? Was this just advice? If so, why is it said to be a law (nomos)?

It along with all other laws are commands to be obeyed. Have you obeyed them all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Slippery answer. But that does not do it. Scripture says that if you claim that you have, you are a liar.

Is the Bible wrong?

We don't claim that we have. That is God's to judge. Why do you want to induce us to grasp judgement away from God.

God is the Just Judge. I leave it all to His Divine Mercy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Further scripture says anyone who claims to have done so, other than Jesus Himself is a liar.

So I had better not *claim* to. No boasting allowed (see Eph.2.8-9).

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I wonder why you want to induce us to judge before the time, while Scripture is clear:

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Ah so you don't want to answer. Even though the answer regarding YOU and every other person is given in scripture. So by not answering, you are denying scripture, by leaving it open that you might have obeyed perfectly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

So I had better not *claim* to. No boasting allowed (see Eph.2.8-9).

Then either obedience is not a requirement for salvation or you are on your way to hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

It along with all other laws are commands to be obeyed. Have you obeyed them all?

Whether we obeyed them all is God's to judge. Why do you insist that we grasp judgement away from God. We prefer to wait for His Judgement. Don't you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Then either obedience is not a requirement for salvation or you are on your way to hell.

That's a non sequitur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Ah so you don't want to answer. Even though the answer regarding YOU and every other person is given in scripture. So by not answering, you are denying scripture, by leaving it open that you might have obeyed perfectly.

I'm glad you aren't my Judge.

1 Corinthians 4: 3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

If you were, I'd be condemned already. But your judgement of me is of little concern to me. I'll await Jesus' Judgement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Then either obedience is not a requirement for salvation or you are on your way to hell.

Are you everyone's judge now? You aren't satisfied with judging yourself, now you want to send everyone who doesn't agree with you to hell?

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

This is the Bible:

Hebrews 13:20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, 21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Hey, if you want to copy and paste over and over, I can do that too.

But scripture is clear - you have not and you cannot. Further scripture says anyone who claims to have done so, other than Jesus Himself is a liar. So your gospel is a gospel that condemns all to hell by making impossible demands.

Whereas the gospel of the Bible is one that commands us to obey, but recognizes that we fail and Jesus blood covers all our unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9-10
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

I don't like your gospel. I'll stick with the Bible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

Are you everyone's judge now? You aren't satisfied with judging yourself, now you want to send everyone who doesn't agree with you to hell?

This is what the Bible says:

1 John 1:9-10
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I'm glad you aren't my Judge.

1 Corinthians 4: 3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. 4For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

If you were, I'd be condemned already. But your judgement of me is of little concern to me. I'll await Jesus' Judgement.

1 John 1:9-10
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

1 John 1:9-10
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

It doesn't follow from this that works of obedience aren't required.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Hey, if you want to copy and paste over and over, i can do that too.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:

But scripture is clear - you have not and you cannot.. .

I don't know what Scripture you're reading. But the KJV says:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

And also:

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Therefore, we obey. And if you claim this is impossible, then I tell you:
Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

This is what the Bible says:

1 John 1:9-10
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
NKJV

I haven't heard anyone here claim they hadn't sinned. Did you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

That is how you characterize it. Its the strawman you build so that you can knock it down. But it isn't what we believe. We believe in faith and works:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Remember what I said about faith and what it means in Greek?

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I haven't heard anyone here claim they hadn't sinned. Did you?

Then you have not been obedient and you cannot be saved by obedience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Remember what i said about faith and what it means in Greek?

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

Um, that was debunked ages ago. I remember. I was there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Remember what I said about faith and what it means in Greek?

When you can prove that you are fluent in Greek, I'll take into consideration what you claim the Greek means. But, you have enough trouble with English.

Quote:

Eph 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
NKJV

We believe it. Scripture is without error.

The Bible says our righteousness is like dirty rags.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

I don't know what you're talking about.

I don't know what Scripture you're reading. But the KJV says:
Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

You are great at taking these out of context. What does He say that we must obey?

Heb 3:18-19
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter because of unbelief.
NKJV

Belief not works. If you seek works as a means to fill the gap of what you perceive to be Jesus' insufficiency to save, then you are looking in all the wrong places.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Um, that was debunked ages ago. I remember. I was there.

Funny, I only remember you given your opinion, taking it out of context.

And I was there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Then you have not been obedient and you cannot be saved by obedience.

You really want to judge everyone's souls don't you? But Jesus already thought of every contingency for us.

We obediently frequent the Sacrament of Confession which Jesus afforded us.

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is another one of those works which you hate so much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

We obediently frequent the Sacrament of Confession which Jesus afforded us.

John 20:23
Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

We must confess our sins to God. But that means that we have sins and have been disobedient in other areas. Under your works gospel, you'd be going to hell.

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

You really want to judge everyone's souls don't you? But Jesus already thought of every contingency for us.

Ironic - you just judged me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Funny, I only remember you given your opinion, taking it out of context.

And I was there.

Well, a native Greek speaker endorsed it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

The Bible says our righteousness is like dirty rags.

Amen.

I notice that every false gospel points to the worthiness and merit of man and his works.

The true gospel points only to the cross of Christ.

1 Cor 2:2
2 For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
NKJV

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Well, a native Greek speaker endorsed it.

We weren't discussing the Greek there so whether that is true or not is irrelevant.

De Maria
Yes, he has been doing that for years on several boards.
So it in nothing new for him on many other fundamentalists.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcura

De Maria
Yes, he has been doing that for years on several boards.
So it in nothing new for him on many other fundamentalists.
Fred

Fred, Yes, I have been defending scripture on many boards for many years. And I do defend the fundamentals of the Christian faith.

Thanks you for noticing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

We weren't discussing the Greek there so whether that is true or not is irrelevant.

Fine, then explain what I got wrong. I gave you my reasons for rejecting your interpretation. Now give me your reasons for rejecting my interpretation. What mistake did I make in reading Eph.2.8-9?

Quote:

Originally Posted by N0help4u

The Bible says our righteousness is like dirty rags.

Isaiah 64:6 6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

That is why our works alone and even our faith is not enough to merit salvation.

But God crowns His own works:

Hebrews 13:21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

De Maria,
Funny, Funny. Funny.
You asked question "You really want to judge everyone's souls don't you?"
And Tj3 says that you just judged him
Since when is a question judgment?
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

That is how you characterize it. Its the strawman you build so that you can knock it down. But it isn't what we believe. We believe in faith and works:

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Sincerely,

De Maria

My gospel depends solely on the faithfulness of God, not on the works of men.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

You are great at taking these out of context. What does He say that we must obey?

Heb 3:18-19
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
NKJV

Belief not works. If you seek works as a means to fill the gap of what you perceive to be Jesus' insufficiency to save, then you are looking in all the wrong places.

They could not enter because of unbelief.

"Entering" being the work that they would have accomplished had they believed.

De Maria,
Your answer to NoHwlp4U was superb.
Fred

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tj3

Ironic - you just judged me.

Your desire to judge other people's souls is hardly a judgement. You have made it obvious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akoue

Fine, then explain what I got wrong. I gave you my reasons for rejecting your interpretation. Now give me your reasons for rejecting my interpretation. What mistake did I make in reading Eph.2.8-9?

Tell me, after how many times will you finally acknowledge it? If you won't listen after "X" times, why should I think that you will listen after "X + 1" times?

Quote:

Originally Posted by De Maria

Isaiah 64:6 6But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

That is why our works alone and even our faith is not enough to merit salvation.

But God crowns His own works:

Hebrews 13:21
Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Exactly thank you for expounding on what I am saying.