Hmm. It WOULD be SFS, wouldn't it? How did I miss that? Well, leave it to a retired librarian to catch that. Well done.

The best acronym would be SBFIC.

I'm still plowing through the book on Luther. I'm in the good post-Wittenberg part.

Walter, I hope you keep posting. And while you post, I hope you will read our responses more carefully and thoughtfully. I think you sometimes respond to what you think we are going to say, and what others have said to you, as opposed to what is actually said here.

I'm a long-time proofreader and editor too. Do not mess with me!

And Luther and I share a birthday (but different year).

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And Luther and I share a birthday (but different year).

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His was after yours??? (<;

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Originally Posted by jlisenbe

His was after yours??? (<;

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Yes, but different centuries.

CENTURIES after!! Wow. You are a living wonder.

If you find a particular part in the [greek] NT that you find confusing. Then maybe it would be a good idea to open it up for discussion while accepting the whole. It is important in these matters that we should start with the Whole, and not with certain parts.

The main theme on this site - raise some particular points and there's our discussing the scripture, we find ourselves spending the whole of our time upon some detail.

I am convinced there is an underlying reason why this question was brought up using the greek. It's become more a question of the "Authority of the Bible" than was originally (Who has Authority.") posted...ultimate "Authority" is man himself. Man's reason. It is what I decide to believe and what I decide to reject.

@DW, You might be focusing on a particular (Greek/Hebrew), and missing the whole. There is no such distinction drawn in the bible itself. The Bible comes to us and offers itself as a whole...Man Is ill-equipped to understand the Bible.

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Walter, I hope you keep posting. And while you post, I hope you will read our responses more carefully and thoughtfully. I think you sometimes respond to what you think we are going to say, and what others have said to you, as opposed to what is actually said here.

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I get the question that DW has posted here. Simply put; I have never come across, "todays greek reading," regarding a Bible passage before...It's presented (NT or greek?) as a particular. I have to ask myself why.

Here you come at it as if there is nothing to it. I'm telling you there is. There is to me, and there is to DW (Unbeknownst to him). Just look at some of his responses. Later I mentioned that we (as Christians) should take the Bible as a whole...It's not put to us in part. You say the new NT is the Bible, I agree. You agreed, that the Greek refers only to the NT...therefore not being the whole!

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The Bible is the Bible until it's not!

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Pick a stranger reading his "Bible." It's a Bible, Right? Pick it up and open it. Whoop! there you have it, the Book of Mormon!!! And there is the Jews, you have the Jehovah's witnesses, We have WG...

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As I said, searching Scripture -- in ANY language -- has nothing to do with a formal study of that country's philosophy.

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The whole purpose of language is to communicate meaning about the world around us.
Language in the Bible is more non-verbal than it is verbal...It communicates an entirely different universe around us.

What do you mean by starting with the "Whole"?

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What do you mean by starting with the "Whole"?

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It has to do with this

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"Authority of the Bible"

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I get the question that DW has posted here. Simply put; I have never come across, "todays greek reading," regarding a Bible passage before...It's presented (NT or greek?) as a particular. I have to ask myself why.

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No, you don't. You just need to read the answer that has already been posted.

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Pick a stranger reading his "Bible." It's a Bible, Right? Pick it up and open it. Whoop! there you have it, the Book of Mormon!!! And there is the Jews, you have the Jehovah's witnesses, We have WG...

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Except that it's not been an issue here. Just with your "strangers". While I frequently disagree with WG, she is not appealing to a book other than the Bible.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Pick a stranger reading his "Bible." It's a Bible, Right? Pick it up and open it. Whoop! there you have it, the Book of Mormon!!! And there is the Jews, you have the Jehovah's witnesses, We have WG...

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Mormons read the Bible (but the Book of Mormon comes first). Witnesses read the Bible but understand many teachings in a different way. WG has been part of a major conservative Christian denomination, as both student and teacher, most of her life.

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I don't know how many times I've heard; that's the old testament, we don't go by the old testament anymore! That is the Old Testament, that's an allegory, That doesn't apply, etc.

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Not from me or anyone else here, you haven't. I repeat: You pulled all of this out of your own head.

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The "Greek" IS the Bible -
it's more the Bible than your English version

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Here's the question: is this quote from DW an anachronism? In other words, If DW is right, where does that leave us?

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I don't understand the question.

jlisenbe, this thing is being weird. You asked about Fee's book. Here's the reply I tried to give.

It's a good resource. A little dated now, but still useful. I have a lot of respect for Gordon Fee.

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I am convinced there is an underlying reason why this question was brought up using the greek.

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Yes. It's because that's what I was reading. No other reason, so please get off that kick.

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I have never come across, "todays greek reading," regarding a Bible passage before

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And maybe if you had asked me what I meant by that, you might have learned that I keep my Greek New Testament handy in a certain very useful room, and when I need to spend time in that room, I pick up my Greek New Testament and read some of it. Since my trips to that room tend to be as regular as an atomic clock, I do some reading every day. Hence, "today's Greek reading."

ASK, dude. This is called "Ask Me Help Desk" so try asking more and assuming less.

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@DW, You might be focusing on a particular (Greek/Hebrew), and missing the whole. There is no such distinction drawn in the bible itself. The Bible comes to us and offers itself as a whole.

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Tell me you don't know the history of the Bible without telling me you don't know the history of the Bible. What Bible did Jesus use? Paul? James? Peter? How did the New Testament come to us? Until you know the answers to these questions thoroughly, you don't get to try and lecture me.

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Mormons read the Bible (but the Book of Mormon comes first). Witnesses read the Bible but understand many teachings in a different way. WG has been part of a major conservative Christian denomination, as both student and teacher, most of her life.

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Both groups also made their own translations that are skewed to support their particular doctrines.

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Both groups also made their own translations that are skewed to support their particular doctrines.

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Very true. The New World Translation for the JW's is really slanted.

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If you find a particular part in the [greek] NT that you find confusing. Then maybe it would be a good idea to open it up for discussion while accepting the whole. It is important in these matters that we should start with the Whole, and not with certain parts.

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That doesn't make sense. If I find a particular part confusing, why wouldn't I start with that part? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

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No, you don't. You just need to read the answer that has already been posted.

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Exactly. I don't need to read the Answer (and where do I find that?) that some of you might have posted. The [true] Answer doesn't come to me by way of the NT or Greek, or from this thread.

Here we come full circle;

We go from this.

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"Wait. WHO is in charge??"

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perplexed by:

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Today's Greek reading

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understanding it to be:

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Are you referring to the process of organizing thoughts and ideas within some established framework

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in light of:

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puts a very different spin on things

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bringing us back to:

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"who is the actual authority"

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conclusion:

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"I never said it was "The Bible" or any of the rest."

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This entire thread comes full circle; Authority of the Bible. I have to wonder why nobody wants to touch on this subject. You keep diverting (as always) from the subject matter?

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The "Greek" IS the Bible -
it's more the Bible than your English version
Here's the question: is this quote from DW an anachronism? In other words, If DW is right, where does that leave us?
I don't understand the question.

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If greek (something belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists) is the Bible and We don't understand Greek, where does that put us? One of us is right, we can't both be right.


Sure, you're welcome to interject greek into the OT (making it the whole Bible) as well...doesn't prevent the fact that man (no matter what language) is still ill-equipped to understand the Bible? Too many Christians think the Bible can be argued, making a believer, or feel they need defend the Bible...doesn't work that way.

The whole purpose of language is to communicate meaning about the world around us. A person doesn't come to know Truth or faith by reading the Bible in Greek, any more than those who haven't read the Bible at all.

The whole purpose of language is to communicate meaning about the world around us. A person doesn't come to know Truth or faith, by reading the Bible in Greek or otherwise, any more than those who haven't read the Bible at all.

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This entire thread comes full circle; Authority of the Bible.

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The Bible is completely sufficient as the ultimate authority for a Christian in all matters of faith and practice.

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If greek (something belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists) is the Bible and We don't understand Greek, where does that put us?

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Already answered in post 239. It's why I say it would be helpful if you would start carefully reading the responses we are giving you. We are in the glorious position of having quite a number of exceptionally well translated English versions of the Bible, a position which has existed since the 1611 translation of the King James Bible and, to be accurate, even a few decades prior to that date.

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jlisenbe, this thing is being weird. You asked about Fee's book. Here's the reply I tried to give.
It's a good resource. A little dated now, but still useful. I have a lot of respect for Gordon Fee.

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I've enjoyed it so far. I heard him preach a few times in Bible College. He's a very thoughtful person.

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Originally Posted by waltero

If greek (something belonging or appropriate to a period other than that in which it exists) is the Bible and We don't understand Greek, where does that put us? One of us is right, we can't both be right.

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Greek is a language. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. People learn the Greek language so they can read the NT as it was first written.

I Corinthians 13:4 in Greek:

καὶ γὰρ εἴ ἐσταυρώθη ἐξ ἀσθενείας ἀλλὰ ζῇ ἐκ δυνάμεως θεοῦ καὶ γὰρ ἡμεῖς ἀσθενοῦμεν ἐν αὐτῷ ἀλλὰ ζήσομεθα σὺν αὐτῷ ἐκ δυνάμεως θεοῦ εἰς ὑμᾶς

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Too many Christians think the Bible can be argued, making a believer, or feel they need defend the Bible...doesn't work that way.

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But that's exactly what you're doing.

@JL, maybe if you were to read my posts as a whole and not dissect and try to pick apart. You mentioned earlier; "does that mean that Greek philosophy or western Phyisoephy influences our perception of the Bible? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying.

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But that's exactly what you're doing

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I'm trying to learn. I am not arguing. You've already learned your truth. You have no idea what I'm talking about. So why would you assume I am arguing the Bible? It is all, you baby!

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The Bible is completely sufficient as the ultimate authority for a Christian in all matters of faith and practice.

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that explains nothing. You still get to decide what you believe...in the way that you believe.

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That doesn't make sense. If I find a particular part confusing, why wouldn't I start with that part? I have no idea what you are trying to say.

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I'm still trying to understand it myself. It's late. I will make an attempt later. The fact of the matter is, that you already knew the Answer to your Question, before asking it. It has everything to do with your original question = Authority. The Authority of the Bible.

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If you don't read the NT, where does the "[true] Answer" come from?

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well it comes from the Greek don't yah know ;-P

Night.

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Originally Posted by waltero

Exactly. I don't need to read the Answer (and where do I find that?) that some of you might have posted. The [true] Answer doesn't come to me by way of the NT or Greek, or from this thread.

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If you don't read the NT, where does the "[true] Answer" come from?