 |
I would too. That is what the member Religious discussions are for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
On the other hand, I don't see any real interaction from this person. Just putting Christians. So I thought he/she might might need to be informed of the board ruling. Especially since I don't think it is posted.
Sincerely,
De Maria
Try interacting with him and see.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
cozyk,
I am not a mean and spiteful person, far from it.
I may sound that way to you and I'm sorry that you think that way.
When I am through discussing a subject I think it is fair and right to let the person know that rather leave them hanging wasting time making more post on the subject will will not be responded to.
From my point of view proving such information is a kind gesture.
It provides inforantion that saves the other person time and effort.
And I do sincerely wish for peace and kindness for all people here.
Fred (arcura)
We are saved by grace, not by works.
What then, if one turns back away from GOD to live in sin
with an unrepentant and unregenerate heart?
Look to what GOD says in his word:
From the Gospels
Matthew 24:13 - "But he who endures to the end shall be saved." ~ Note: Part of the meaning of the word saved, from the Greek word sozo, is to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgement. The word that Jesus Christ spoke will judge in the last day (John 12:48). This being saved is clearly conditional. We must endure to the end. To endure means to remain, not to recede or flee, to preserve under misfortunes and trials, to hold fast to one's faith in Christ, to bear bravely and calmly ill treatments. It's the same word here: If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He also will deny us - 2 Timothy 2:12. We must endure through whatever comes our way all the way until we die with Him in our lives, then we will live and reign with Him. If we wind up denying Him before the time of our death, you can't get around the word of God here, He will deny us.
Matthew 24:24,25 - "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you beforehand." ~ Note: The word deceive also means to cause to stray, lead aside from the right way, to sever or fall away from the truth, to be led away into error and sin. That is definitely the loss of salvation because it means to be severed or fallen away from the truth. They will stray and be led aside from the right way. They will be led away into error and sin. We have no license to fall back into the bondage of sin again. Some people want to think this Scripture means that it is not possible when He said "if possible," but Christ would not have said this just to be playing games with us by there being no way it can happen. The word for beforehand also means to say before the event: prophecies. This was Christ telling us that it would happen. So don't be deceived that you can't be deceived, or then you may wind up one of those who do in fact get deceived.
Luke 12:45,46 - "But if that servant says in his heart, 'My master is delaying his coming,' and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." ~ Note: Someone can be a servant of Christ then start the practice of sin again and not be ready for eternal life when Christ comes back. This person will go where the unbelievers go. Verses 47 and 48 prove there will be varying degrees of punishment in hell. It will be worse for the ones who lose their salvation. 2 Peter 2:20,21 also proves this.
THE PARABLE of THE SOWER
Luke 8:5-8 - Jesus said, "A sower went out to sow his seed. And as he sowed, some fell by the wayside; and it was trampled down, and the birds of the air devoured it. Some fell on rock, and as soon as it sprang up, it withered away because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up with it and choked it. But others fell on good ground, sprang up, and yielded a crop a hundredfold." When He had said these things He cried, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear!" ~ Note: If you can hear then you ought to know that in order for someone to wither away they had to once have a good life in the body of Christ. Someone can't wither away if they were never saved to begin with, because if they were never saved then they never had life that could wither away.
JESUS then explained THE PARABLE of THE SOWER
Luke 8:11-15 - Jesus said, "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved (Note: These people do not become believers after they hear the word of God, but the others next do believe and get born again, but they lose their life in Christ and fall away because of sin). But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while (Note: For a time they were born-again believers. It's the common word for believe, pisteuo. They had saving faith. They had the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative of law and soul. That is what to believe means. In other words, they had the power of God within them to drive them to have a distinctively superior advantage of having their souls obey His moral law, but they only did it for a while.) and in time of temptation fall away (Note: They had been set free from sin, but they didn't resist the temptation when they were enticed to sin. The word for fall away means they depart, desert, withdraw, fall away, whichever definition you choose to use, from having life in Christ. They became faithless. They got that way because they fell for the temptation of sin.)" The people who say that the ones who fall away were not real believers contradict God's word, because it clearly says they believed for a while. Plus you can't fall away from something if you were never with it to begin with.
"Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and they are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity." ~ Note: To go out also means to pursue the journey on which one has entered. They had entered into a life with Christ; but while seeking where that life would lead them, their fruit did not mature. They got choked. It means to choke utterly the seed of the divine word sown in the mind. Riches (wealth, abundance of external possessions) and pleasures (lust) is what caused it. I will show you later that you need to bear good fruit.
"But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it (Note: The word for keep means hold fast, keep, stay in regards to from going away. This is our personal responsibility to continue to believe the word of God and to stay faithful to Him) and bear fruit with patience." ~ Note: The word for patience more correctly means enduring, perseverance, the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings. To be saved at the end, you must persevere while bearing good fruit. Jesus made it clear that a true believer produces good fruit, and that the human will is involved in remaining a believer, since He says we must keep it and persevere. Christ proves here that no one is eternally secure no matter what they do.
Rod Mix
Rod_Mix,
Yes there are several ways a person can lose the salvation they once my have had.
One of the ways has happened to many people.
For some reason or other they have rejected God.
Another is that for some reason or other they have refused to forgive others.
Jesus said it plain and clear that a person must be forgiven to go to heaven and a person who does not forgive others will NOT be forgiven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
cozyk,Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
Just now saw this... sorry. Ok well I have been actually studying this very thing. I believe IF and that is HUGE IF someone were saved, that someone is always saved. PERIOD. Nothing you can do or say can change it. I already know what I am saying in controversial but I believe it to my core and I believe it because the scripture teaches it. The problem that I have is the IF... I know that I KNOW I am the Lord's. Not because I'm special, not because I am moral, not because I remembered to forgive everyone today but because I am relying on and ONLY on what Jesus Christ did for me on the cross. When he said... "it is finished". I believe it. There is nothing I can do to lose my salvation. I was sealed with his Spirit. So as crazy as this sounds... if I awoke tomorrow thinking I could do it on my own... my Lord has said this to me... I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. ( He was speaking to the believer) He didn't put a condition on it... not a one cozyk. And one last thought... Christianity isn't fear based... it is all about love. You told me you liked Joel Osteen... what about Joel's message is scary?
Christianity is and should be about Love. Having said that, the Lord did give us a glimpse of things to come. To warn, to encourage, to enlighten and to inform us. Would you think Him a Loving God if he didn't let you know what will happen IF people reject His son? But the good news is... it doesn't have to happen!!
classyT
Yes there are ways a person can lose his/her salvation as I have mentioned before in this thread.
Fred
If you mean that you can lose your salvation as opposed to rejecting it, you will be hard pressed to find anything in scripture to support that theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
John 10:28-30
29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand. 30 I and My Father are one."
NKJV
I accept God's assurance that no one can tale our salvation away. So no, we cannot "lose" our salvation.
We can, however, choose to walk away intentionally from our salvation.
Tj3,
I mean that a person can lose his/her salvation in several ways and one of them is to later in life turn from God and reject Him by becoming an atheist or some other way od thinking and believing.
Also a person can get into a situation where for some reason the refuse to forgive others.
Jesus clearly tells us that those who do not forgive will not be forgiven and that one must be forgiven to go to heaven.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Scripture says that there is one way by which we can ceased to be saved and that is to deliberately reject Him. We cannot simply "lose" our salvation. You can so say, but you will not find that in scripture.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
No. I don't believe one can loose their salvation unless you fully reject God. He lives within your inner most being. God lives in you if you accept that you are him and he is you I feel you cannot loose your salvation.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountain_man
Tj3,Quote:
Originally Posted by Tj3
Here is my problem, I can't IMAGINE someone really having a personal relationship with the Lord and say... naah, I got my own way. I can see someone wondering off, getting into things they shouldn't because I have! I can even see many owning Christianity without KNOWING him.
What do you do with the Lord saying I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. There isn't a condition to it. How can we be put "in Christ" Christ in us, only to have all that undone?
When those that stand before him saying Lord, Lord haven't we done this and that in your name.. the Lord says.. depart... I NEVER knew you. Not... I knew you once but you left me.
Oh well. Just my thoughts.
ClassyT, I am not sure if you want my opinon, but please know I do offer the edified hope, in love of Christ for all His children. It is the same goodness that He has asked that we give others. I hope that is okay..Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
Your quote words is answered by refer in (Matthew 13:18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.)
19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
These verses show the difference in measure of knowledge, and the up and down of reaping what is sown.
Agreed. I personally do not think that many turn away but Paul gave us examples in scripture of some who did fall away from the faith. To fall away means that they were once there, and left.Quote:
Originally Posted by classyT
God is faithful and will never leave us or forsake us, but man is not so trustworthy.Quote:
What do you do with the Lord saying I will NEVER leave you or forsake you. There isn't a condition to it. How can we be put "in Christ" Christ in us, only to have all that undone?
If God's faithfulness meant that we would never be allowed to leave Him on our own freewill, then why did He let Adam fall?
I could not agree more. By being as open as you are I truly believe you are without hindrance to receiving the light of God and all the wisdom and knowledge that comes with it. Which allows you live out jesus greatest commandment love thy neighbor as thyself. See many christians are great @ quoting the bible and making reference to scripture but do they TRULY understand the words they are speaking? In my experience they don't. To be close to good, you need to put actions into your words!Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Snd,Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Of course it is OK. I see this parable totally differently. Not so much about the reaping and the sowing but about the ones that receive the seed and bring forth fruit. They all get the same seed... looks to me that only ONE group does something with it. In other words, only one group is REAL. That is my take.
Tj3,
I stand by what I said.
Fred
Paul tells about an event that must happen before the great day of the Lord arrives.
2 Thessalonians 2:3&4 "Let no one deceive you by any means; for thatDay will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."
The "falling away" must accur. Most Bible scholars believe this refers to a "great apostasy"
Of the church, when a large portion of the church decends into heresy and ungodly living.
This sounds like we can lose our salvation, we all have choices until our time is up.
Make sure you are staying close to Jesus in prayer and keeping His teaching.
Love and Blessings Maggie 3
I just see more differences of opinion between christians. If you can't agree what is correct among yourselves, how to you think you can convert other faiths?
Whether there is agreement amongst people who profess to be Christians is not the issue. Indeed when you have two groups, one who holds strictly to what God said in His written word, and others who add to it by adding denominational traditions and other sources, you will, of necessity, have differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozyk
That is why God gave us His written word to adhere to - it never changes. What Christianity truly is is not what different men and women believe, but rather what the Bible teaches and we are to be conforming our beliefs to what the Bible says.
BTW, no Christian ever converted anyone. What scripture tells us to do is to preach God's word, and it is the Holy Spirit who converts by working on the heart.
| All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:07 AM. |