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-   -   Do you believe predestination is a biblical teaching? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=342538)

  • Apr 30, 2009, 07:41 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Accepting a free gift is not work by any definition.
    Of course it is. It is an effort on your part which then lessens the work of the Holy Spirit.
    Quote:
    But once again, let's go by what scripture says. Let me ask you again for where scripture says that we cannot choose to accept God.
    I gave you multiple references that say it is purely God's work, the work of His Holy Spirit.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 07:43 PM
    Wondergirl

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3
    Accepting a free gift is not work by any definition.
    You lift your arm and hold out your hand to accept? That's work. (General Science 101)
  • Apr 30, 2009, 07:45 PM
    Wondergirl
    Even good ol' Catholic monk/priest Luther figured it out and wrote, “I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith... ”
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:14 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Of course it is. It is an effort on your part which then lessens the work of the Holy Spirit.
    No effort, but rather following God's command.

    Quote:
    I gave you multiple references that say it is purely God's work, the work of His Holy Spirit.
    I saw none that said that we cannot make a choice.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    You lift your arm and hold out your hand to accept? That's work. (General Science 101)
    Saying "yes" is not work.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:15 PM
    arcura
    Adam,
    I agree with you on this.
    Also wuth wondergirl that Jesus said that no one comes to Him unless chosen by the Father.
    Peace and kindness,
    Fred
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:15 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Even good ol' Catholic monk/priest Luther figured it out and wrote, “I believe that I cannot by my own reason or strength believe in Jesus Christ, my Lord, or come to Him; but the Holy Ghost has called me by the Gospel, enlightened me with His gifts, sanctified and kept me in the true faith....”
    I never said that we leave the Holy Spirit out of it.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:19 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    I never said that we leave the Holy Spirit out of it.
    The Holy Spirit is ALL of it.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:20 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Saying "yes" is not work.
    Saying yes is participating in your own salvation.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:22 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    No effort, but rather following God's command.
    When lost in sin we cannot comprehend any command of God.
    Quote:
    I saw none that said that we cannot make a choice.
    I'm sorry. Please read them over again.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:24 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    When lost in sin we cannot comprehend any command of God.
    Even without the help of the Holy Spirit?

    Quote:
    I'm sorry. Please read them over again.
    I did - it's not there.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:25 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Saying yes is participating in your own salvation.
    It is accepting the free gift.

    Even known anyone who thought that accepting a gift was too much effort?
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:26 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The Holy Spirit is ALL of it.
    You keep telling that we cannot accept Jesus, but will never show me where scripture says that.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:28 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Even without the help of the Holy Spirit?
    When lost in sin we cannot comprehend any command of God -- we need the Holy Spirit.
    Quote:
    I did - it's not there.
    Yes, it is -- they are.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:30 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    When lost in sin we cannot comprehend any command of God -- we need the Holy Spirit.
    Agreed - we need the Holy Spirit to be able to comprehend God's commands regarding accepting the free gift of salvation.

    Quote:
    Yes, it is -- they are.
    I do not doubt that you believe that to be true.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:35 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Agreed - we need the Holy Spirit to be able to comprehend God's commands regarding accepting the free gift of salvation.
    It is not our accepting, but the Spirit's accepting for us, since we are lost in the morass of sin and are totally incapable of acting for ourselves.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:37 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    It is not our accepting, but the Spirit's accepting for us, since we are lost in the morass of sin and are totally incapable of acting for ourselves.
    Okay, once again, where does scripture say that we cannot accept for ourselves?
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:38 PM
    Wondergirl
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Okay, once again, where does scripture say that we cannot accept for ourselves?
    Which post was that? #161? I am not going to reprint it here.
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:39 PM
    Tj3
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Which post was that? #161? I am not going to reprint it here.
    We already discussed that one - there is no such verse there.

    Acts 2:40-42
    40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 4
    NKJV
  • Apr 30, 2009, 08:41 PM
    arcura
    My view is that...
    Practicing ones faith Is a work in progress.
    Fred

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