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Originally Posted by JoeT777
Then why does Scripture say that YOU shall pay for every last mite. (Luke 12:59); I say to thee, thou shalt not go out thence until thou pay the very last mite.
Where do you find purgatory in that passage? Read the context. It is referring to people who are alive.
And if you think that this refers to paying the price for your sins - consider this, indeed answer it - what do you have which is capable of paying off the tiniest little bit of sin? Justify your answer from scripture.
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If we sin why are we saved, and how can we be saved by fire? 1 Cor 3:15; If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.
Why do Roman catholics not read what has been posted and keep just asking the same thing over and over?
1 Cor 3:11-16
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
NKJV
This refers to works. Works done for Christ will remain, but works done for other reason will not survive. This has nothing to do with purgatory. It has to do with works, not men being destroyed.
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And Purgatory can exist here on earth being disciplined by God’s chastisement.
Heb 12:6-11
Look at the context:
Heb 12:3-6
3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons:
"My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD,
Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him;
6 For whom the LORD loves He chastens,
And scourges every son whom He receives."
NKJV
The context is referring to how God deals with us while we are alive in the flesh. Nothing whatsoever could bend this to make it refer to purgatory or after death.
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Why would Matthew talk about forgiving sins or not forgiving sins in the next world if in fact there were no Purgatory? Mt 12:32 32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him neither in this world, nor in the world to come.
Matt 12:31-32
32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
NKJV
This speaks against the belief that we can pay for sins after death – there is no forgiveness after death, don't put your hope in paying for your sins in purgatory.
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Rev 21:27 There shall not enter into it any thing defiled or that worketh abomination or maketh a lie: but they that are written in the book of life of the Lamb.
Rev 21:26-27
27 But there shall by no means enter it anything that defiles, or causes an abomination or a lie, but only those who are written in the Lamb's Book of Life.
NKJV
Right. For those who are saved, Jesus cleanses us of all unrighteousness, not purgatory.
1 John 1:9
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
NKJV
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Heb 12:23 And to the church of the firstborn who are written in the heavens, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of the just made perfect,
Heb 12:22-24
22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.
NKJV
This refers to the perfection that comes through Christ's salvation, not purgatory.
Heb 10:13-15
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
NKJV
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Col 1:24; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
Col 1:24-27
24 I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, 25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints.
NKJV
Note that this is “in my flesh”, not after death.
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2Sam 12:14 Nevertheless, because thou hast given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, for this thing, the child that is born to thee, shall surely die.
2 Sam 12:12-15
13 So David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the LORD." And Nathan said to David, "The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die." 15 Then Nathan departed to his house.
NKJV
Suffering in the flesh, not after death.
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2 Mac 12:43-46 It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins..
2 Maccabees is not canonical and by internal evidence, is not the word of God:
2 Maccabees 15:38 If it is well told and to the point, that is what I myself desired. If it is poorly done and mediocre, it was the best that I could do.
NRSV
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2 Tim 1:15-18 A faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the chief.. .
2 Tim 1:14-18
15 This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me, among whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. 16 The Lord grant mercy to the household of Onesiphorus, for he often refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain; 17 but when he arrived in Rome, he sought me out very zealously and found me. 18 The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day--and you know very well how many ways he ministered to me at Ephesus.
NKJV
“In that day” refers to the fact that he is not yet dead.
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1 Jn 5:14-17 And this is the confidence which we have towards him: That, whatsoever we shall ask according to his will, he heareth us. 15 And we know that he heareth us whatsoever we ask: we know that we have the petitions which we request of him. 16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask: and life shall be given to him who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death. For that I say not that any man ask... mortal/venial sins
1 John 5:14-17
14 Now this is the confidence that we have in Him, that if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. 15 And if we know that He hears us, whatever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we have asked of Him. 16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.
NKJV
We cannot take scripture out of context.
Rom 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
NKJV
There is one sins for which we need not pray because the is no forgiveness.
Matt 12:31-32
31 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.
NKJV
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Why should I disagree with this? Yes, Christ paid for our sins. But, “thou pay the very last mite.”
This makes no sense, You are taking a passage out of context, and second, if Christ already paid it, why would we have to pay it again?
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As a man, he may be as big a sinner as me. As the Pope, in matters of our faith, he is infallible.
And this is found in scripture where?
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Insofar as the Church is concerned, since there is an Apostolic Session, what you call the Roman Church is, and has been, the Church of Jesus Christ. So even if you consider it a courtesy, I would appreciate it if you would refer to it as a “Church.” The reference to “denomination” is beginning to become offensive.
As a courtesy, I would like you to stop referring to it as "The Church". That is offensive since there are many other churches and denominations.
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And this is according to Tom; or Scripture? It’s God’s grace that there is a state of Purgatory.
Then why is it not found in scripture?
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Galatians 3 is out of context with the subject of Purgatory. It’s referring to the Jewish law (Old Testament).
I was responding to an argument for purgatory based upon Jewish law.
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You haven’t demonstrated here where the Scriptures you quoted are in context with “Purgatory.”
We've been through a lot of scripture on this thread - which are you referring to?
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You’ve only quoted two Scriptures?
Huh??
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The Church is a gateway to which is Christ.
Your denomination is not a gateway to Christ. If you want to claim that your denomination is special, then show us where your denomination or any denomination is found in scripture (Yes, I refer to a denomination because that is what it is - it is not "The Church" - that is an arrogant and false claim.
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[I] The order of bishops is the successor to the college of the apostles in their role as teachers and pastors, and in it the apostolic college is perpetuated. Together with their head, the Supreme Pontiff, and never apart from him, they have supreme and full authority over the universal Church
Just quoting documents from your denomination is not going to convince those who hold to God's word.
BTW, do you know that the title "Pontiff" is the title of the priest in the pgan Roman religion that Constantine amalgamated with the churches to create the Roman Catholic denomination?
