A friend of mine committed suicide about a week ago, claiming he was a Christian. I grew up Southern Baptist and had always heard that the one thing that separates you from God is taking your own life, is this true?
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A friend of mine committed suicide about a week ago, claiming he was a Christian. I grew up Southern Baptist and had always heard that the one thing that separates you from God is taking your own life, is this true?
No. God knows we are temporarily trapped on this earth and subject to failed relationships, mental and physical illnesses, financial problems, family difficulties, along with many other fears and anxieties. He looks into our heart and knows our struggles. He has told us to be strong but knows we cannot always be.
I have always stumbled on this, but in the end, the choice I have decided on is this.
No one sane would kill thierself, so if you do, there is a mental defect or some emotional problem, that caused it.
Thus a person who does this,is not of clear mind and they are not responsible for their actions.
But on the other hand, merely "claiming" to be a christian is not saving you either, most christians are not saved. The real question only they know is if they accepted Christ as their Savior at some point in their life.
See, I look at it from another prospective. Murder is a sin and suicide is murder. How can you seek forgiveness for the sin of committing murder if you are already dead? It is a paradox for sure, and no one will have a definitive answer until the day of judgment.
Suicide is in contrast with the Power of Life that God gives us. The Bible does say that you should not murder. (This can be understood as "taking your own life and the life of another.)
Each person, whether Christian or not, will have difficult and very low times in their life. But as Christians, we each have the power to face everything that this world brings before us with God's help. That includes those things that "throw us for a loop." We have a source of help that can sustain us through.
This was taken from something I had read. "We no longer belong to ourselves, but to God. We are overseers of our bodies and our lives (which belong to Him), and we are responsible to guard that which has been entrusted to us."
There have been suicides in the Bible and most of them were from despair, fear, and disappointment. You can even look at Samson who in taking the lives of those in the arena, knew that he would be taking his life. Did he have another choice? Was his revenge! Here is another verse about causing your death. "Do not be a fool--why die before your time?" (Ecclesiastes 7:17b) Clearly, God is against it and wants us to have life.
Here is what Job said in his lowly state, So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life. I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity" (Job 7:15-16). David and Jeremiah are just a few others that were in despair at times.
The Bible lists the only unforgivable sins as rejecting Christ (Mark 16:16) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit. He does not spell out what happens to those that commit suicide (do they go to Heaven or Hell). Maybe that was for a good reason. If He had said that suicide was forgivable and not a sin, then more people would probably take their lives. Either way, it is clear that each person will stand before God and give an account of his/her life. God will be our ultimate Judge.
For now, it is important as Christians to remain close in our walk with God so when the rough times comes, we will remember from where our help comes.
As 450donn said, we can not know the answer until Judgment Day.
My take on the life is that God has sent us on this earth to accomplish a mission. We have varied things to do. Some accomplish that mission by doing the jobs they have, some accomplish by doing after-work things for people. A person is intelligent enough to distinguish between a work for God and work for Devil. When Lord God has counted our breathes and we CAN NOT take one more or one less than that, then, in my opinion, committing suicide will not please God. Shortening our lives means that we have taken over the control of life in our hands and have kicked God out of driving seat of the life. When that happens then we are no more in relationship with God.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMachell
Christians do face all the obstacles during this journey of life which non-christians face, rather I would say life for a Christian is harder that for a non-believer. The Bible tells us II Chronicles 16:9 For the eyes of the LORD run to and fro throughout the whole earth, to show himself strong in the behalf of them whose heart is perfect toward him. And also we know that HE never puts a burden on a person more than the bearing capacity of the person. Matthew 16:30 "For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." When we have this assurance, why don't people seek help from God. Satan is always on the go to find a weak soul and devour it. Only those people get crushed under the burden who do not seek strength from God. They trust their own capability rather than having faith on Lord God. And Psalm 118:8 tells us - It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man. One who leaves everything in HIS hands and ask HIM to come into HIS life, never thinks of shortening life. Life of David Livinstone is another example of leaving everything in HIS hands. Here it is if you have not heard of him earlier. YouTube - Ravi Zacharias tells the story of David Livingstone.
I have few friends who are pretty depressed and talk of suicide. I always tell them to talk to Lord Jesus and ask HIM to lift them up out of the situation. One of my friends, who has recently accepted Lord Jesus as his saviour, told me to tell my friend, when I told him about my her thinking of suicide, that "She is a mean person if she thinks of suicide because she only thinks of herself and not of her family". How inspiring, assuring and soul lifting wordings are of hymn "What a Friend We Have in Jesus" YouTube - Paul Baloche Live - What a Friend We Have in Jesus
A mother put a message on the board today.Eight weeks ago her son committed suicide.She wanted to know if he loved her and if he was at peace.
I replied that my faith tells me he is at peace.
Would anyone care to tell that mother different?
The bible tells us that our bodies are a temple in that we are to stay as clean and healthy of mind and body as possible if you are aware of a defect i.e. depression its up to you to find help and pray for help there's nothing I've read that has led me to believe that you COULD be forgiven for committing suicide however this may have been purposely left out so as not to encourage it as an easy way out of lifes tribulations
I agree with Fr_Chuck, Wondergirl and zippit
(the others too but what they said is my ususal reply)
I knew a Christian that committed suicide.
He was schizophrenic
If a person gets too far over the breaking point they may not know what they are doing.
If they do have their mental capicity then likely it isn't forgiven.
We are all sinners but are saved by the grace of God. Sin is sin there is not one sin
worse then another. Mark 3:28 & 29 "I tell you the truth, all sin that people do and
all the things people say against God can be forgiven. 29 But anyone who speaks
against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guily of sin that continues forever,"
Anyone that has not accepted Jesus Christ as their savior has unforgiveness in him and that is blasphemey against the Holy Spirit.
Maggie 3
This is a question that has plauged many seminary students.. myself being one. Its hard to know if u are separated from God or not. If we were ever truly His then would w ewillingly destroy His creation?
Yes. Mental illness such as depression, a major negative life event, inability to function normally (after a car accident or skiing accident or diving accident or fire) could cause loss of hope and not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. We are human, and are beset by human failings or life losses that can overwhelm us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dondi
Question?
Where would suicide for someone who is terminal ill
Fit in?
I would say the same as WG said IF they are to the point of no return and in bad enough pain. Just being told you are terminally ill I think one should not abandon hope yet.
I agree with Fr_Chuck on this.
I also believe that Jesus is the judge of who goes where after this life and He KNOWS all the circumstances involved in every person's life so I must trust in His judgment regarding everyone who takes his/her own life and that include everyone one else.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I think someday we will know but until that time it is nothing but speculation and folly to assume anything.
I tried to kill myself years ago and I lived.I have huge scars on my arm that remind me everyday that it wasn't my time.
I am a good person and good people want to die everyday.
Don't judge and preach to them,give them love and understanding that's what Jesus would do.He saved me for a reason,I wasn't just faking it I really was serious.I almost lost my arm. Understanding is everything.
I have a friend that did
I felt a lot of anger because I saw what he left
Behind,and I just kept saying you self centered bastard I was mad at him for it
But I've got over that and just feel sorry for him now,and his wife and daughters
When I think of them its hard not to feel anger
I actually just had this conversation with someone the other day; she wants to accept the Bible but is struggling to because a family member that she was close to committed suicide. The Bible speaks against suicide and she wants to feel as if her family member is in Heaven, but she can't accept both things to be true.
Sin - no matter which one it is - separates you from God. The only thing that can reunite you is repentance. That's why suicide is so iffy; most people are dead immediately and cannot repent of their sin. But I also said, he may have realized in the split second before he died just what he was doing, and may have been remorseful. He could be in heaven or he could be in hell; only God knows where we're going after we die.
artlady,
Praise God!!
I'm glad you are still here with us.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Aw, now I have tears ! Thank you Fred ,it is most heartfelt, your thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
I have saved a few lives since then so ,hay It's all good:)
Can we talk?
I like you .The other day a mother posted saying 8 weeks. Ago my son committed suicide .Did he love me and is he at peace?
I would like you to answer her because I was the only one who answered.
I was afraid at first ,so I said oh no what can I say.
I moved on and I said I can't do that.
I didn't know what to say so I prayed and I think for a minute she knew someone was there.
If you could help I haven't been able to get my mind off her and I am praying! BIG TIME!
Lots of people.
Here is the link .I think a little more love would help this Mom. All Gods Love to you :)https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/bereav...um-383476.html
Gods knows when you hurt and I don't believe for a minute you are sent to hell for not being able to live on earth.When life is too much.
I don't believe it! All Gods love to all of you who ever wanted to take the easy way out! Don't do it it... PRAY! :)
The Lord is your Shepard!
artlady,
For your friend...
I believe that a person is very much mentally disterbed who commits suicide.
For whatever reason her son did that I'm sure that it did not effect his love for her.
And yes I think he is more a peace now than just before he took his life.
He was not at peace in any way at that time.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
I don't believe it necessarily separates you from God, but it certainly doesn't please him. Imagine this: There was an entire group of people that were going to die and you wanted to save them but the only way to do it would be to have your son killed. Would you do it? Most people wouldn't. But God did. He gave his only-begotten son as a ransom for all sinful humans on Earth. What an extremely humbling thing to do! So imagine if you saved all those people and then they killed themselves. Would you not be upset or angry? I mean you gave up your SON to save these people. I would feel very disrespected.
That's what suicide is. It is no respect for God or the sacrifice he made for us. Yes, living on this Earth is no fun task and Satan does NOT make it very easy on us. But as long as we pray for help, assurance and guidance from Jehovah (God) he will be there to help us. As the scriptures bring out " And Jehovah is the one marching before you. He himself will continue with you. He will never desert you nor leave you entirely. Do not be afraid or terrified" (Deut. 31:8)
So, suicide will not separate you from God but it is very disrespectul to God and everything he has done for us.
With that sad, I really am sorry about your friend. It actually doesn't surprise me that your friend was pushed to that level. This world is a scary place. Sometimes I feel like doing it. But I just pray to God and ask for help. He is the only one that knows how to comfort me in times like those. Keep your spirits up and never forget the power of prayer! :)
Karamel,
Thanks for your interesting point of view on this.
But I do believe that a person is our of his/her mind when they commit suicide.
Therefore God and any other thing that is good is also out of their minds.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Yes, Arcura I agree. They can't be completely sane. . But you don't just wake up crazy one day! There had to have been actions and thoughts that led up to it. Some people don't handle things as well as others and until we are perfect, nothing is going to change that. That's just life for now, unfortunately :/
Karamel,
True!!
Fred
I wonder how many people say *God forgive me * before they eat the gun?
artlady,
I'd wager not many, if any.
I think that people who commit suicide dio not think of God at that time.
Some may, but I doubt it would be many.
Fred
I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by arcura
That was my exact point. Some people are remorseful - others are not.Quote:
Originally Posted by artlady
We cannot say whether someone is going to Heaven or to Hell; only God has that answer.
I am a Christian and I think about killing myself, and I am going to get in depth here, so get ready. Also I am 24.
For one I do believe that my suicidal thoughts, that I have from time to time are caused by the residual effects of my old life, where I was so hopeless and unfortunetly we create mental habits.
So when I get stressed or I feel anxiety I can usually go to God speak to him and understand that this is a positive situation because it gives me a chance to become stronger, mentaly and it is a test of my faith, will I rely on God, will I give in to the temptation, the only way to get better at something is to succeed where you once failed, to literally face your demons, I could not personally do this without God, some may call this weak, but when I am weak in myself I become stronger in God and our relationship deepins as does my faith for he truly has never abandoned me.
Now lets actually go to this week, something really negative happened to me, I lost my job that I had for 2 years and I loved everyone there it was my place, and my boss was my friend but he fired me, I was sad, and that was Monday, but I just went to God and said what do I do with this situation you have given me, so I decided I would write my boss a letter telling him that while I do not understand his reasoning, but I am not angry at him, and I forgive him for any pain this has caused me and hope that we can still have a civil relationship, now that was Monday, Tuesday I was good... today and its odd I read this post, but the suicidal thoughts started to come, this is how they go, usually It starts with me imagining how I will die, gunshot, hanging, stabbing, what I would do to myself would I put a note on me, would I stab a note through my body, where would I do it, would it be in front of the people that hurt me, would I be alone somewhere I pretty much fantasize death and the emotions are something like extreme sadness mixed with anger, cause I do not want to die, I just want to die, and now you get the insanity that is suicidal thoughts, they are usually accompinied by thoughts of past relationships and about how hurt they made me, about how I feel like I can never be whole, that my life will never be manageble and that no one is ever going to love me, because I'm cursed and it just hurts a little more, but there is a pleasure as well, something feeds and enjoys these thoughts this fantasy. I have not had suicidal thoughts like I did today in a long time.. well long for me like 5-6 months... and I was really thinking about it, wondering if God would forgive me, and at the same time knowing he would, but also knowing that it was not right. I would like to say that I think most people before they kill themselves probably think about God, whether they are Christian or not, but not in the sense you are thinking, when I think of God during these times, I am not asking for help, or saving I am simply like hey I'm out this life is to cold for me, too much, and your not even enough and I know you are but I just can not take this insanity for another day, I can not take these broken memories for another second they make my life misrable and my only other option for instant relief is death, I just want to be with you, to be free of this. I will tell you right now, suicide is not a theological question, it is not talked about in the Bible at all or not very much. As to the murder thing, there are two hebrew words for killing, one means to murder aka to kill a man for an envious reason or a self focused reason and one is to kill to defend or during fighting. Murder in the first sense is the one that Moses wrote on the 10 commandments, so know that murder to God is not just killing something. Its where your heart is at, and where your soul is at, if you are saved by calavary than you are saved, he took your place end of story as long as you believe that and have faith in that than you are saved, sinning while you die or not. Suicide is a sin I am sure of that, but Jesus came to take our sin away, and I am sure out of his mercy if a believer ended there own life it would be forgiven, he does not see like we see nor does he judge like we judge, I know I am not wrong here, Jesus has taken my spot, no matter what I do, and that does not give me free reign to sin, in fact I hate sin, but it does not mean that I do not sin, we are cursed with it until these bodies die.
sorry about all the spelling errors I was typing fast and am not going to spell check :)
Suicide is the ultimate act of faithlessness and placing yourself above God. Having said that, we cannot know whether a person who suicides is actually insane and unable to control their actions. So I suggest God might view each case on its merits, but as a general injuction suicide is no different to murder and we know God doesn't sanction that but will forgive a repentant sinner. What I find difficult is to see how a willful act so far away from God's purposes is likely to produce repentance
paracelete that is pure unabashed judgement, killing yourself is not murder. Tell me if when you are on your deathbed your last words are a lie, are you forgiven? Jesus took my place end of story, no matter what I do, I do not have to ask forgivness for every sin I commit what yoke is that? I am forgiven by my faith in the Son alone, the LAW is Dead by the flesh of the Son.
If you read what paraclete said in relation to the context you will see that he said IN GENERAL and with exceptions... so where's the judging?
He is acting as he was God that is what I mean by judging.. he is stating that in certain situations or under pending circumstances sin will be forgiven or not, it does not state this once in the Bible, its says
Colossians 2:13-15 (NIV)
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers of authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, truimphing over them by the cross.
Acting as God is passing judgement, speaking as though your words hold as much ground as Gods is passing judgement, I do not mean in the worldy way. I also do not care if you put I prepose or any other such statement your heart is easly seen in your post itself.
So do you say that any Christian that kills themselves goes to heaven?
I am saying that any man that has faith in the son is saved by that alone and nothing else, not his deeds good or bad, even in death, FAITH ALONE SAVES, If I were to end my life today, I would go to my father, he does not see like we see, in his eyes my sinful nature and who I was died with Jesus, I was on the cross with him, when I come to the Father because of my Faith alone I am saved. It is a large mystery and I do not even begin to say I understand it all, I just know that to God, Faith, aka belief in something is the most important thing ever.
I will use a worldy example on just how important belief is to us as humans and its effects, and hopefully that can give you some slight understanding of what it must mean to God.
Almost every single highly successful person states that belief in there idea, and belief in themselves and the belief of others in them brought them to where they are at.
Dan Doogan of the Metal band Disturbed stated in Guitar World (paraphrased) "I was a construction worker and I made a decent living, but I just could not get this idea of playing in a band out of me, I just had this belief in myself."
Tiger Woods stated if it was not for the belief of my father in me I would not have gotten to where I was.
Its really simple for us humans if you have belief in something it does something sublime and yet at the same time very reconizable, how much must it mean to God than, he states in the Bible that by Faith (belief) alone you shall be saved... it must mean something massive to him and it must do something that we as we are not just can not grasp the full concept, we just have the crumbs of the idea.
There are many issues here such as once saved always saved, repentance, whether the person is really saved or just has knowledge of Jesus, insanity, who can know? This is why I think God might judge each case on its merits but why take the chance, if God wants you dead for mercy reasons or any other reason, he can call you otherwise wait around and get a grip.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flesh
This is no different to any other situation, salvation is not a license to sin. Why would my last words be alie. I am a Christian so my last words will be goodbye see you on the other side
As far as I am concerned and from everything I can gather from the word of God... there is NO sin that isn't covered under the blood of Jesus. SO... if someone is REALLY a christian and would commit this devastating act, MOST definitely they would be with the Lord Jesus.
Jesus Christ... HIS son.. cleanses us from all sin. Last time I check ALL means ALL!
This answer is based on the Bible.. not what I think or feel.
Classy T is right, I am not arguing with you, I am stating what the Bible says multiple times, that we shall be saved by faith alone, humans always want to add human ideas to things, there are not "many isssues" the Bible gives it to you straight its from God, its absolute truth, there are not variations (that is the devils playground) there are not sub-sections there is no fine print, there are parables, if when I die I have faith in Jesus aka BELIEF, that I believe that he existed, hence God exist, that I believe with my heart that he died on Calavary and that when this happened and I accepted that, I was given at that exact moment the Holy Spirit, the great counsler, the thing that makes me able to speak with God, and to hear him within my heart, within my consouiness, than I am saved by that faith alone, which must mean a lot to God considering how many times he stresses belief in the Son is the only way to gain forgivness.
If you are having trouble understanding we are saved by faith alone, if you think I have to do something to gain it, or think in a certain way(other than belief in God, and Calavary) to gain it I suggest this book, "50 reasons Christ came to die" by John Piper, which heavly uses text from the Bible to support itself, which to me is the only way to avoid opinions, I dislike very much when a man assumes to be God and starts adding laws on his own bias opinion. Judas did commit suicide but he also did not have faith that is one of the only NT references to suicide that I can think of, and it does not matter if you shoot yourself or die from a car wreck without the son... and we are not to judge cause we do not know who has it and who does not.. it may appear to us as humans so and so does not but in fact does, we do not know the conversations people have had with God, and as far as I am concerned because of the authority in the Bible, if a killer had faith that Jesus died for him and began to repent and maybe he kills again while repenting, maybe he just can not stop killing but he knows it wrong and is trying to be with God (this is an extreme but by the word of the Bible is none-the-less true) than he is saved by that faith alone, if you can not swallow that, its good you should not be able too, its God he is above us, he knows this life is really nothing, worldly people can not even imagine that, they can not get around the fact that this life is NOTHING and the only important role it is to play now (remeber the world was Gods good work but it was ruined by sin) is for the salvation of his creations so he can save as many as possible, this of course is just one of the mysteries God does not give to us as to why, I personally do not know why sin is so grievous to God that he must eradicate it in the end and anyone who has it within him, you must see Sin for what it really is, its not an act, if it was it could be reversed by them, it's a curse a disiese, its something we as men can not fully understand, we only get the vague idea and know after being saved that it was in fact doing something to us, a worldy man will only know things as "good" or "bad" for him, I do not do this because it causes this, or I do this because X reason... we start to make up our own rules, our own truths, but God cleary states there is an absolute truth an absolute way to live, and you know what, none of us can do it... not one of us, we can not be what God had intended us to be until these bodies which are cursed with Sin are destroyed and only our Spirits remain, now imagine yourself as a spirit an energy ball or something, this is where the blood of Jesus is, on our souls it shows to God we have made a sacrifice (again another mystery, why is sacrifice so important to him, we as humans again only get the crumbs, we know self sacrifice to be a comendable act, we see it even in the world as to be so, again how much more it must mean to God how important it must be, he may reveal it one day to us) so Jesus' sacrifice is on us and God says this soul is pure by my standards now to your new body, not tainted by this curse, the enemy is dead no longer will sin destroy my creations. (yet another mystery not revealed to us, why was the enemy given riegn here, why was he allowed to spread his disiese, if we look at this in a finite way we will always just be pissed cause it seems our whole lives have been ruined, but you must see like God does, 80 years is NOTHING, I look forward to an ETERNAL life with God, 80 to the 1000000th power beyond, and I get to be in a body again, I get to live in this life again, but without the negative effects of Sin, I get to hold someone, I get to hang out with people... I get to talk to God.. in person, I get to love without fear, forever and all I have to do is sacrifice 80 years, to not live in this world as I would like to but as God would have me, to be obidient even to the point of death... whether that be physical or any other type of death this world threatens me with.
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