It has been quite long since anyone posted a question, so here I go.

I love to share good stuff with my friends through emails, especially Christian things which I come across internet. One of my friends, deletes my email when she finds that it contains Christain material. She says that she is not going to follow a structured religion. She says her prayers to God, but not in the name of Lord Jesus. About Christianity, she says that pastors and church leaders do/had sexually expolited people so she can not be a Christian. I explained her that coming to Jesus is having a relationship with Jesus and believing in Him is not a structured religion. Yet she is pretty adamant. I remember her in my prayers for her to come to Lord Jesus. I know that only Holy Spirit can change a person.

Should I keep trying to reach her or am I wasting my time and should "dust off my sandals?".

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Originally Posted by Triund

It has been quite long since anyone posted a question, so here I go.

I love to share good stuff with my friends through emails, especially Christian things which I come across internet. One of my friends, deletes my email when she finds that it contains Christain material. She says that she is not going to follow a structured religion. She says her prayers to God, but not in the name of Lord Jesus. About Christianity, she says that pastors and church leaders do/had sexually expolited people so she can not be a Christian. I explained her that coming to Jesus is having a relationship with Jesus and believing in Him is not a structured religion. Yet she is pretty adamant. I remember her in my prayers for her to come to Lord Jesus. I know that only Holy Spirit can change a person.

Should I keep trying to reach her or am I wasting my time and should "dust off my sandals?".

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Keep praying, and keep the door open. Sometimes after the seed is planted, it takes time to come to fruition. We cannot convince a person into salvation. It takes us planting the seed, and the work of the Holy Spirit on the person's heart to bring the person to the point where they are open to receiving the truth of the gospel.

As far as how much to talk to her about it, or to send emails, that is something as a matter of prayer. There is a fine line sometimes between making sure that she knows that you are there to talk when she is ready, and perhaps being seen as an annoyance. Stay in prayer and follow God's guidance on that point.

What does the person mean by structured religion and why is that so offensive to this person? All religions have a set of beliefs that they adhere to, in that respect you could say they are structured. And the fact that someone in a particular religion has done something wrong should have nothing to do with accepting or rejecting a certain religion. Is there anyone who is without wrongdoing in their life?

Religion and Christianity has been structured from shortly after the death of Christ.

One merely has to start reading the writings of Paul to see rules that churches need to follow and how they are suppose to behave.

She is merely making excuses, the actual of others should never be something to stop your faith.
Those who don't want to admit their own desire not to accept something normally attack it by showing those that failed.

That is what I love about the bible, it tells you about how so many failed, but still were used by God or how they were able to change.

Think of which major Old testement prophets or leaders may have married a prostitute, or sleep with his daughters or perhaps had someone killed so he could marry their wife.

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Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Think of which major Old testement prophets or leaders may have married a prostitute, or sleep with his daughters or perhaps had someone killed so he could marry thier wife.

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This is a good point. The person's focus should be on the infallible word of God, and on what God has done, not on what fallible men do and have done. We will always make mistakes, but all of us can be forgiven through the blood that Christ shed on the cross.

Sooner or later everybody will run out of excuses. Some it happens when there is a major catastrophe in their lives. Sadly for all to many it will will not be until after death and they are standing before the throne to answer for their actions. All we can do is keep telling our friends about the love and grace of God. It is still up to them to make the decision.

Thank you very much folks. I would not give up on sending emails or telling about Jesus and Christianity to her and my other friends. This is a challenge I am taking up to see how long can they resist Lord Jesus. And let's see which way Holy Spirit works on them. Please remember me in your prayers.

Why are you trying to force religion on her?

I too have friends that send me religious emails, I may read them if they're interesting, but it's just for the read, not because I'm interested in joining.

If it's all about Christianity, church, etc. then it gets deleted and I ask the person to stop. I have my beliefs, I don't need or want someone else shoving theirs down my throat.

If the person insists on sending more, even after I've asked them to stop, then I block their emails.

It's almost like being raped, you've said no but they won't listen or respect it. I have no tolerance for people like that.

That's my take on it.

The more someone bullies (which is what you're doing in my opinion) the more unsavory it becomes. You won't get through this way.

She's made herself clear, why don't you respect her wishes?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Why are you trying to force religion on her?

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I don't see anyone trying to force anything on anyone. It is no more forcing it on someone that you would be forcing to give a needy person to accept food that you know that need.

Praying for someopne to be saved is done out of care and love for others.

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Originally Posted by Tj3

I don't see anyone trying to force anything on anyone. It is no more forcing it on someone that you would be forcing to give a needy person to accept food that you know that need.

Praying for someopne to be saved is done out of care and love for others.

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Tom, she made it very clear that she didn't want any more religious emails but the OP is still going to send them because he believes that Christianity is the only way.

That's forcing.

If I sent you emails about Deism, my beliefs and you request I stop and I don't, that would be forcing you to see my views.

Pray all you want, but stop harassing her.

Also, giving a needy person food, I think we can all agree that food is a necessity. Religion isn't.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Tom, she made it very clear that she didn't want any more religious emails but the OP is still going to send them because he believes that Christianity is the only way.

That's forcing.

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Then you and I have a different of forcing. If he went up to her and ordered her at gunpoint to accept his religion, that would be forcing.

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If I sent you emails about Deism, my beliefs and you request I stop and I don't, that would be forcing you to see my views.

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Did she say to stop? If so, I missed that - I saw that she was adamant about not becoming a Christian and deleting the emails, but I did not see where she said stop. If she did tell him to stop, then I would still disagree that it is forcing, but would agree that it would be best to stop.

As for your example, due to my ministry, I get email such as you are suggesting at a rate of dozens per day. I don't consider anyone is forcing me. Let's not exaggerate.

If your friend continued to drive drunk and told you to stop pestering her about it, would you stop?
Your friend is going down the wrong path in a deep dark forest and thinks that groping in the dark is better than using the flashlight you're offering.

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Originally Posted by homesell

If your friend continued to drive drunk and told you to stop pestering her about it, would you stop?
Your friend is going down the wrong path in a deep dark forest and thinks that groping in the dark is better than using the flashlight you're offering.

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You cannot use drunk driving as a comparison.

Driving drunk is not only against the law but proven to be dangerous, even deadly. Religion is a belief, not a fact, it's not proven.

You believe what you believe, but some people's beliefs are different. My beliefs are no less then yours.

I believe that I'm going down the right path as much as you believe you are. Who are you to say I'm wrong? Who are you to say that I should follow you?

The OP's friend has beliefs, just not his. Continuing to send emails about his beliefs when she's told him she's deleting them, doesn't share his beliefs, well that's harassment.

What part of no do you not understand?

You're probably wasting your time and should dust off your sandals. But I will say this ; remind her that we're all sinners. That even includes clergy who've molested little boys, etc. Like the bumper stickers say, "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven." Anyone who cannot fathom that is not going to appreciate Christianity and it sounds like your friend falls into that category. One of Satan's most powerful tools is to exploit the inherent sinfulness of Christians (who, like everyone else inherited Adam's Original Sin and thus the propensity to sin of their own accord) and use that to turn people off to Christianity.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

You cannot use drunk driving as a comparison.

Driving drunk is not only against the law but proven to be dangerous, even deadly. Religion is a belief, not a fact, it's not proven.

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I disagree, and a while back was prepared to provide evidence of it reality to you, but you were not interested.

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You believe what you believe, but some people's beliefs are different. My beliefs are no less then yours.

I believe that I'm going down the right path as much as you believe you are. Who are you to say I'm wrong? Who are you to say that I should follow you?

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People can believe many things and believe them sincerely, but it does not make all beliefs true.

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The OP's friend has beliefs, just not his. Continuing to send emails about his beliefs when she's told him she's deleting them, doesn't share his beliefs, well that's harassment.

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I share emails with people all the time who do not share my beliefs and they share emails with me. I consider it conversation and exchange of views, not harassment. But I guess that is all in a person's perspective.

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I disagree, and a while back was prepared to provide evidence of it reality to you, but you were not interested.

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That was a year ago, when will you get over it?

Also, like I've said over and over again, I'm willing to listen, you just aren't willing to provide the info. There's a difference Tom.

It's funny how you always bring this up. Why? Don't you have anything else?

Will you ever let it go? I doubt it, but I will no longer respond to that, I won't beat a dead horse, it's pointless.

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People can believe many things and believe them sincerely, but it does not make all beliefs true.

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Exactly! Follow your own words Tom. Just because you believe doesn't make your beliefs true.

All you can do is believe.

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I share emails with people all the time who do not share my beliefs and they share emails with me. I consider it conversation and exchange of views, not harassment. But I guess that is all in a person's perspective

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If they accept the emails then it's fine. Read the OP again. His friend told him she deletes all religious emails he sends, that she's not interested in his faith. He came here asking if he should continue to shove his beliefs down her throat (before you say it, yes, I know, those weren't the words he used but it amounts to the same thing).

If the person is okay with getting the emails then fine, send them, all the more power to you. But the OP's friend isn't, yet he's decided to continue. That's harassment Tom, like it or not.

I'm more surprised that she hasn't deleted the friendship. If someone can't take no for an answer they won't be in my life for long. No means no. Do you have a problem understanding that?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

That was a year ago, when will you get over it?

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Truth does not fade with time.

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Also, like I've said over and over again, I'm willing to listen, you just aren't willing to provide the info. There's a difference Tom.

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Not true. I have never said that I am not willing to provide the information. What I indicated was that I am not going to waste time if someone decides to prejudge the information before seeing it.

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Exactly! Follow your own words Tom. Just because you believe doesn't make your beliefs true.

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I do and I agree. Just because I belieev it does not make it true. There must be more to the Christian faith to make something other than an empty belief - and there is.

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All you can do is believe.

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That may be true for you - I don't follow a blind faith.

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If they accept the emails then it's fine. Read the OP again. His friend told him she deletes all religious emails he sends, that she's not interested in his faith.

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I delete many emails also, and from some sources, almost all of them, but periodically one catches my eye. Who knows. The Holy Spirit may yet be working on her heart and I hate to see anyone go to hell.

If the person is okay with getting the emails then fine, send them, all the more power to you. But the OP's friend isn't, yet he's decided to continue. That's harassment Tom, like it or not.

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I'm more surprised that she hasn't deleted the friendship. If someone can't take no for an answer they won't be in my life for long. No means no. Do you have a problem understanding that?

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You keep saying that, but once again, did she say "no". Where did you read that she did? Deleting emails does not mean that the person has sent a cease and desist order. That is something for the person who knows her to best be in a position to assess.

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You keep saying that, but once again, did she say "no".

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She says that she is not going to follow a structured religion. She says her prayers to God, but not in the name of Lord Jesus. About Christianity, she says that pastors and church leaders do/had sexually expolited people so she can not be a Christian. I explained her that coming to Jesus is having a relationship with Jesus and believing in Him is not a structured religion. Yet she is pretty adamant.

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Read between the lines Tom, you should be good at it, you do follow the bible after all.

As for going to hell, we'll see. I'm just as confident about my beliefs as your are about yours.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Read between the lines Tom, you should be good at it, you do follow the bible after all.

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She is adamant about not following Christianity - so where does she say cease and desist?

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As for going to hell, we'll see. I'm just as confident about my beliefs as your are about yours.

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That is the point that I made earlier beliefs, no matter how sincere and strongly held, are not necessarily true.

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That is the point that I made earlier beliefs, no matter how sincere and strongly held, are not necessarily true

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And will your belief stand the test of time?

If you wanted to kiss me and I told you I didn't want to be kissed, that I don't like being kissed, that kissing is not something I do, would you still kiss me? After all, I didn't say no, not outright.

That's what the OP is doing to his friend. She doesn't want religion, she doesn't want religious emails, but he'll continue to do what he wants because he wants to.

There's a word for people who don't take hell no for an answer.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

And will your belief stand the test of time?

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It has lasted for the past several thousand years, and for me personally for several decades, and the more that I look into the details, the more amazed that I am at the incredible amount of evidence to validate the Christian faith.

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If you wanted to kiss me and I told you I didn't want to be kissed, that I don't like being kissed, that kissing is not something I do, would you still kiss me? After all, I didn't say no, not outright.

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No, my wife would be pretty upset with me :D

But to the point, that is not remotely the same. We are not talking about some 16 yr old boy trying to get a thrill from a girl in a parked car. We are talking about a situation where a person can choose to read, or choose to delete email, and has not said to stop, and where those emails could make a difference between eternity life, and eternity in hell.

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There's a word for people who don't take hell no for an answer.

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Where did she say "No"?

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No, my wife would be pretty upset with me

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Your wife would be the least of your worries. ;)

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We are talking about a situation where a person can choose to read, or choose to delete email, and has not said to stop

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Friends often find it hard to flat out tell their friend that they don't like what they're doing and they want it to stop.

What she has already said speaks loud and clear, if you listen.

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those emails could make a difference between eternity life, and eternity in hell.

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That's not what the OP's friend believes, that's what you believe.

I realize that as a Christian you don't understand the OP's friend; point of view. I do.

We're not going to agree on this Tom.

If the OP continues what he's doing I'm sure things will come to a head soon. Hopefully, when she screams no, he'll listen. Apparently she's being too subtle, even though I read it loud and clear.

When asked how best to evangelize St. Francis said, “Preach the Gospel at all times; when necessary, use words. I understand this to mean evangelization is done best by living out one's Catholic faith; it's the example that says volumes.

JoeT

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Originally Posted by JoeT777

I understand this to mean evangelization is done best by living out one’s Catholic faith; it’s the example that says volumes.

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Joe, I agree with you.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Your wife would be the least of your worries. ;)

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Well, we will never know, because I would not have any interest in any case!

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Friends often find it hard to flat out tell their friend that they don't like what they're doing and they want it to stop.

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It depends upon the relationship. Since it appears that neither you nor I are involved in that relationship between those two friends, it seems to me that those who are, are best placed to make that call as to the intent of her comments. I am happy to leave it with him.

You apparently feel that you can judge the situation without knowing that important detail. I don't agree.

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Well, we will never know, because I would not have any interest in any case!

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Well, my attempt to lighten the mood didn't work well, did it?

Tom, really, you wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. That's not a belief, that's a fact, they're what I deal with.

I have to agree with alten, and joe. Continuing to send emails she has no desire to receive, let alone read will accomplish nothing other than to convince her even further that christians are pushy and are only out to make everyone believe what they believe. The best way to influence her opinion is to live by example. Show her with your actions that not all christians are the same, instead of preaching to her at every opportunity.

If you still want to send her emails you can just remove overtly religious messages. Anything that ends with anything along the lines of "forward this message and you will be saved," "if you don't forward this message you are denying god," or scripture verse of any kind is probably a bad idea. I find that most of the religiously-toned emails I get have the same impact if you just remove the last line or two, which is usually the ONLY part that has a religious message. Since your friend prays, I doubt she would be offended by emails mentioning prayer.

Now, just to address a personal quibble. Tj3, there are many religions that are much older than christianity. If you place so much worth in how long a religion has been alive, then christianity is losing. Hinduism, shamanism, judaism, and many forms of paganism (just to name a few offhand) have been around for hundreds, in some cases thousands, of years longer than christianity. The followers of those religions will tell you just as certainly as you are telling us that there has been proof through it all that their religion is true. The length of time a particular belief system has been around says more about the strength of the believers and the ability of the message to last through time than the validity or truth behind it.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Well, my attempt to lighten the mood didn't work well, did it?

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Oh Alty, apparently you did not see my response to your original "joke". Oh well.

It would help the mood if you would converse with us a bit more, rather than just assume that we know nothing and then come down on us if we don't agree with you.

I'd love to sometime have a chance to really have a good open discussion with you, without the "barbs". I've tried, but it takes two.

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Originally Posted by hheath541

Now, just to address a personal quibble. Tj3, there are many religions that are much older than christianity. If you place so much worth in how long a religion has been alive, then christianity is losing. Hinduism, shamanism, judaism, and many forms of paganism (just to name a few offhand) have been around for hundreds, in some cases thousands, of years longer than christianity.

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First, Christianity is an extension of Judaism, and this religion goes back to the time of creation, so I am not sure how much older you can get than that. Christianity is simply a term given to those who follow the religion that started with Adam and Eve, carried on through the Jewish nation. It prophesied the coming of Christ, and those who followed the Messiah when He came were called Christians.

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the followers of those religions will tell you just as certainly as you are telling us that there has been proof through it all that their religion is true. The length of time a particular belief system has been around says more about the strength of the believers and the ability of the message to last through time than the validity or truth behind it.

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No one would follow any religion if they did not think it to be true. The question is whether there is evidence of its validity.

I do not see any point in continuing to send these emails.

Personally, I receive these emails all too often and it frustrates me to no end.

Especially those ones that try to entice you to pass it on like

"if you want to stand up for what you believe in, pass this on..."
"if this story touched you in any way, pass it on..."
"if you are not afraid to let the world know you believe..."

Of course, this is just another example of how religion tries to use fear, guilt, and shame to "entice" people to believe in what THEY believe in.

Your friend is just deleting these emails anyway... what good do you REALLY think you are doing?

People will not come to know God, whichever one it may be, just because they are on yours, or any one else's, email distribution list.

Dr. J, I had to spread the rep, but I agree.

You know what, Triund, keep sending the emails, no harm done, she's deleting them anyway.

Will she be ticked that your refuse to listen, probably, but she can keep her beliefs and you can pretend that you're getting through.

It's a win win.

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Oh Alty, apparently you did not see my response to your original "joke". Oh well.

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Yes I did, and then I tried to make another to keep the mood light and you stomped on it.

No worries, I tried, I should know better by now, but apparently I still believe that maybe, just maybe, we can have a discussion without you constantly going for the jugular.

We'll never agree Tom. I honestly think you're intimidated by me and that's why you won't even give an inch.

After all, I'm a woman, how dare I question you? :rolleyes:

What you fail to understand is that I'm an educated woman. I'm not some twit without a mind. You have to do more then just tell me "I believe so it is" because that won't work on me.

I've said it before, I'm not a sheep, I refuse to be a sheep. I follow the path that makes the most sense to me, not the one everyone else is following.

I'll unsubscribe to the thread, let you all continue your ramblings.

Good luck everyone.

Triund, how would you feel if she, or another friend of yours, began sending you emails reciting from the Book of Mormon? Or passages from the Tao Te Ching?

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Yes I did, and then I tried to make another to keep the mood light and you stomped on it.

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As I said, it is a matter of perspective. Some people always seem to see the worst in others and interpret everything they say in that manner. So for some folks, it would not matter what I said.

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No worries, I tried, I should know better by now, but apparently I still believe that maybe, just maybe, we can have a discussion without you constantly going for the jugular.

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You must be mis-reading the message - it is you always going for the jugular. Stop going for the juglar and try to see, How will you know until you stop doing it. Heaven knows I have tried to have a respectful discussion with you time and again.

If you think it the other way, put down your hatchet now and start talking to me like another human and let's see where it goes.

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We'll never agree Tom. I honestly think you're intimidated by me and that's why you won't even give an inch.

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You wish. :p

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After all, I'm a woman, how dare I question you? :rolleyes:

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You seem to have a bee in your bonnet about that. I never said or implied anything along this lines, but it seems to make you feel good to put down men who disagree with you. I can only ponder why. Does that make you feel good?

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I'll unsubscribe to the thread, let you all continue your ramblings.

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As you wish. The discussion was going along quite amiably until you decided to start throwing barbs.

Anytime you decide for real that you wish to discuss something respectfully, I will never close the door on you.

This person has been hurt by the Church, there are many such persons. All you can do is pray for her salvation and be a friend. Don't try to change her views or confront her, you only need to tell a person the gospel once after that it is up to them

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As I said, it is a matter of perspective. Some people always seem to see the worst in others and interpret everything they say in that manner. So for some folks, it would not matter what I said.

You must be mis-reading the message - it is you always going for the jugular. Stop going for the juglar and try to see, How will you know until you stop doing it. Heaven knows I have tried to have a respectful discussion with you time and again.

If you think it the other way, put down your hatchet now and start talking to me like another human and let's see where it goes.

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Wrong.

Tom, you really are blind to the way you treat people.

Do you ever stop stating the same thing over and over and over again?

I don't have a hatchet. I'd love to discuss things with you. How many times have you proven it's not possible? I do have a shield because that's what's required when dealing with you.

Tom, really, it takes two to communicate. Two! You just want to preach, that's not communication.

Every time I post you pick apart what I say and twist it to suit you. Yes, I've done the same, when in Rome...

Then you bring up past posts because you have nothing new. Do you really think that constantly trying to rehash the past is the way to open communication?

Now you'll quote me, pick apart what I've said then claim that you're innocent, didn't have anything to do with it, it's all me.

You're very predictable. I'll just sit back and wait.

As for the thread moving along fine until I came. Yes, I agree. I came in and told all of you that we none Christians don't like having your beliefs shoved down our throats. Of course you don't agree. Of course you're going to get defensive. Does it make it any less true? No.

Really Tom, there's not point in us trying to talk. You won't let the past go and I'm tired of hearing about it. Until you can forgive and forget, listen and learn, there can't be communication, only arguments.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

Wrong.

Tom, you really are blind to the way you treat people.

Do you ever stop stating the same thing over and over and over again?

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Here we go again. Are you going to try to disrupt and get this thread shut down?

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I don't have a hatchet. I'd love to discuss things with you. How many times have you proven it's not possible? I do have a shield because that's what's required when dealing with you.

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Alty,

It seems every time that you get on a thread where I am, you go into a personal rant until the thread is shut down. How is that trying to discuss?

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As for the thread moving along fine until I came. Yes, I agree. I came in and told all of you that we none Christians don't like having your beliefs shoved down our throats. Of course you don't agree. Of course you're going to get defensive.

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You came on here comparing us to rapists.

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You came on here comparing us to rapists.

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I didn't actually say you're rapists. Did I?

Just like the OP's friend didn't actually say no.

Are you reading between the lines Tom? Isn't that what you accused me of doing?

Interesting.

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Originally Posted by Altenweg

I didn't actually say you're rapists. Did I?

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And I did not say that you did, did I? But you did compare us to rapists.

What is your reason for coming on to threads like this anyway? Hijack and disrupt?

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Originally Posted by Tj3

And I did not say that you did, did I? But you did compare us to rapists.

What is your reason for coming on to threads like this anyway? Hijack and disrupt?

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I said that not taking no for an answer makes the person saying no feel like she's being raped.

I never did say the word rapist Tom.

What's my reason? To set the record straight, that's all. To point out that bullying someone and forcing them to accept your beliefs is not the way to get anyone to believe. It's wrong, it's a violation, and I for one am done putting up with it.

But of course you'd see at as hijacking and disruptive, because you love to accuse, to stir the pot.

Someone had to come here and stand up for the OP's friend. The woman that doesn't want Christianity but come hell or high water will have it force fed to her.

Hopefully she has some back bone and doesn't put up with it much longer.

Isn't it time for you to report the thread Tom? That's your MO.

Good luck.