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Umm, I haven't got any doubts about the bible, but a teacher asked me to come up with some questions about where the bible would contradict itself or something like that, and he would answer me the best way possible. Do you have any doubts about the bible?
He told us to look every for doubts, and this is not school, it is a discussion/class I have in my free time, so it isn't homework. I have looked everywhere, but I can't find a SENSIBLE question to ask.
How about, why G-d says do not kill and treat your neighbor as yourself and then tells people to take out there enemies or goes and smites someone.
Or the new testament has like four or five different versions of the birh of Jesus all of which have differenes: in one it's a cave not a manger, and in others its wise men, kings, or shepards, I think the gifts are different too.
It also speaks against incest but tells stories about it like Lot in Genesis.
There are tons, I googled it and found an awesome wesite with versus and everything: A List Of Biblical Contradictions
Anyway, hope this helps!
The old testament says make sure all boys are circumcised the 8th day.
In the new testament it does not matter whether you are circumcised or not.
Forgot about that, parts of the new testament actually condemn it and call it mutilation; gallatians I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesushelper76
Hey guys, I have to at least interject some thought into this discussion because I fear if it continues the way it is going without offering any perspective, everyone will come away with the impression that the bible is just a total sham... it has all of these apparent "contradictions."
I think that if someone were to have the intellectual integrity to actually read the bible objectively, one would find that there really aren't contradictions. A cursory read of the bible would give that impression but then again any book which I just skimmed over could give me an impression that it was saying one thing... but upon reading the entire book, I may come to conclude that I had it wrong. If you come to the bible with the assumption that it is contradictory, and therefore invalid as a whole, then you will find verses that will substantiate that view. But you can do that with any body of literature... lawyers do it with the U.S. Constitution and skeptics do it with the bible.
If intellectual integrity is of value, you will have to consider the bible as a whole and not the individual pieces one can rip out of context and point to as a contradiction. I have taken many years of my life to study the bible and I have come to conclude that it is a really cohesive book and the authors do not contradict one another. It is the skeptic who takes a perfunctory approach to looking at the bible and deems it contradictory when he hasn't even considered the body of the bible as a literary whole.
For what it's worth, my two cents.
The op wanted to know any contradictions in the bible. This could be one of them. Although it can be explained it is still a legit answer.
EdiT: I do not know what I was thinking about the forget part.
Joe
I agree with Jakester, All the contradictions or so called contradictions can all be explained. Many people see them but not with looking at the whole bible...
I do not believe necessary there are any contradictions but in saying this yes there are many APPARENT CONTRADICTIONS THAT COULD BE LISTED.
Were you talking to me in the first bit?? I said I forgot about that not forget; I was trying to help by pointing to the book it would be in and why.
Totally agree w/ Jake too; even though I don't believe in the new testament, the old testament has it's moments when it comes to contradictions and they shouldn't be looked at unless in the context of the rest of the writings.
When I read the question put by Goldenwolf, a thought flashed across my mind that these contradictions if there is any, would give another opportunity to non-christians to try to speak against Christ. Like Dan Brown tried to prove that Jesus was married to Mary Magd. And there had been many attempts in the past to shake foundations of Christianity, yet they were never successful. So this could be another move by some anti-christian elements to tarnish the Bible.
Secondly, the things in New Testament are not contradicting the Old Testament. However, Jesus clarified those further and in some cases even raised the bar of expectation. Today I read Mathew 5 during my morning prayers.
Gernald - yeah, I understood what you meant by "forget." You may have been misunderstood... it's all good. Just curious, what do you mean that you do not believe in the New Testament? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. Not trying to put you on the defensive or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gernald
Jake and Joe,
I agree, there are NO contradictions. The Bible isn't just any old book that can be opened and read. It takes the Holy Spirit to enlighten us. And I hate to get all scripturey but I love the word and I don't like even the thought of some teacher asking people to pick out what they think could be a contradiction... so here is my scripture and to back my point up...
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 corinthians 2:14
Interesting? Why don't you believe in the NT?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gernald
The point of this exercise was to prove that the bible has no contradictions, and that if you read it carefully you will find out. We had to come up with five questions/doubts/contradictions from friends, family, etc. I couldn't see any contradictions in the bible myself, so that is why I thought it would be a good idea to post the question here, to get some ideas, not to start a theological debate.
I agree that there seems to be contradictions in the bible, but that is often the case where someone reads but does not study what the bibles says or is completely unaware of the culture and history of the times the various books were written.
It's like the one which some people often quote regarding the statement in Revelation "ch 22: 19. if anyone cuts anything out of the prophecies in this book, God will cut off his share of the tree of life and of the holy city, which are described in the book."
And they apply it to the entire bible which should not be done because the statement applies only to the book of Revelation and not to the many books which were written before Revelation was.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
How about the part where the guy comes back from the dead.
How do you see this as a controversy or contradiction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
I don't. I see it as something to have doubt over, as the OP asked.
Seeming contradictions involving numbers are indeed there.
Hebrew, like some other languages uses letters for numbers. The differences make no difference to the history or doctrines, and are probably due to a copyists error in one letter.
I have a standing challenge for anyone to present a biblical contradiction of any substance; i.e. anything that affects the meaning, teaching, or history.
We are talking about CONTRADICTIONS here, NOT whether you believe the Bible or not.
(edit)
About the genealogies given in Matt. & Luke. One is Joseph's which shows Jesus' LEGAL claim to the throne of Isael due to his being the adopted son of Joseph, the other is Mary's genealogy that shows that through her, Jesus is descended from king David.
galveston,
Right you are about that.
Fred
Nice try but in hebrew the numbers were written out for e, g for 21 they wrote twenty one not a 2 and 1, so your explanation is garbage .Its not liked whjen copying someone missed a 0.Quit playing games.You can maybe foul these people, but not me, I have spent almost half of my life studying different religions.As for more contradictions there are millions of them.I would have to write a book.Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
Also read the rules on when to gives reddies, just like your bible I am sure you have not read the rules either
II SAMUEL 24
The Numbering
AND again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
While the author of Samuel 24 above, makes God the boss of the situation, the author of Chronicles below gives credit to the Devil.
I CHRONICLES 21
The Numbering
AND SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
Matthew and Luke are over-zealous in making DAVID the King, the prime ancestor of Jesus, because of that false notion that Jesus was to sit on the "THRONE OF HIS FATHER DAVID" (Acts 2:30). The Gospels belie this prophecy, for they tell us that instead of Jesus sitting on his father's (David's) throne, it was Pontious Pilate, a Roman Governor, a pagan who sat on that very throne and condemned its rightful (?) heir (Jesus) to death. "Never mind,'' says the christians, "if not in his first coming, then in his second coming he will fulfill this prophecy and three hundred others beside But with their extravagant enthusiasm to trace the ancestry of Jesus physically to David, (for this is actually what the Bible says — THAT OF THE FRUIT OF HIS (David's) LOINS, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH" (literally, not metaphorically Acts 2:30), both the "inspired" authors trip and fall on the very first step.
First, it states that the anger of the Lord was kindled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
Second, Satan stood against Israel.
You will find other places where God used even unclean spirits as tools to bring about judgment. Satan himself can do no more than he is permitted.
Have you not read the book of Job, where God permitted Satan to test Job? Additionally, neither historical facts or doctrine hinge on this point.
So now you deny the inspiration of Matthew and Luke. According to the "flesh", that is Jesus of Nazareth, He will indeed sit on the throne of David, that is as absolute king over Israel, and Israel will be the head of all nations, so Jesus will rule all the Earth.
I realize you don't believe that Jesus will return, but that changes nothing. Your thinking falls into the same trap as that of the Jews who could not accept the idea of Messiah both suffering and also reigning.
Now let me get back to the OP.
It is true that there are a lot of different understandings within the Christian community, but when you come down to the heart of it, there are three things basic to all denominations.
1. Jesus was born of a virgin.
2. His shed blood atones or cleanses from sin.
3. He walked out of the tomb alive and now sits at the right hand of the Father.
You will see in other threads that we argue strongly on various points, but on the basics, we are pretty much in agreement.
galveston,
There are and additional 2 basics that almost all Christian denominations agree on and those 2 are that Jesus is the son of God and the trinity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
When he does come back and sits on the throne please do let me know until then we can play these games all day long.Also make sure that your childern do read Read Genesis 19, verses 30 till the end Do not hesitate and procrastinate. Your Bible will become a priceless heirloom for your children
"history" has it that, night after night, the daughters of Lot seduce their drunken father with the noble motive of preserving their father's seed.Seed" figures very prominently in this "Holy Book": forty seven times in the little booklet of Genesis alone! Out of this another incestuous relationship come the "Ammonites" and the "Moabites," for whom the God of Israel was supposed to have had a special compassion. Later on in the Bible we learn that the Jews are ordered by the same compassionate God to slaughter the Philistines mercilessly — men, women and children. Even trees and animals are not to be spared, but the Amonites and the Moabites are not to be distressed or meddled with because they are the seed of Lot! (Deuteronomy 2:19)
Leviston,
So your point is??
In my view that since God is infinitely wise He had reasons He did things or allowed them that we mere mortals have a hard time trying to understand.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Arcura,
God is sovereign, and in general it seems to string man's bean so to speak. For some reason they want to JUDGE him. Like they even have a right... I
Sounds more like someone's sick fantasy rather than God's work
505 'eleph (eh'-lef);Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare81
Prop, the same as 504; hence (the ox's head being the first letter of the alphabet, and this eventually used as a numeral) a thousand:
KJV-- thousand.
702 'arba` (ar-bah');
Masculine 'arba` ah (ar-baw-aw'); from 7251; four:
KJV-- four.
The word "arba" is used in both the passages and is the same number. Why it was translated differently I have no idea.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
WHAT DID THE LORD DECREE 3 YEARS FAMINE OR 7 YEARS FAMINE?
II SAMUEL 24:13
13.So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? Or wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue, thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11
11. So Gad came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee
12. Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
EIGHT OR EIGHTEEN?
9. Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
II KINGS 24
8. Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mothers name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
700 or 7 000?
GOD CONFUSED BETWEEN "CAVALRY" AND "INFANTRY" ?
II SAMUEL 10
18. And the Syrians fled before Israel; and David slew the men of seven hundred chariots of the Syrians, and forty thousand horsemen, and smote Shobach the captain of their host, who died there.
I CHRONICLES 19
18. But the Syrians fled before Israel: and David slew of the Syrians seven thousand men which fought in chariots, and forty thousand footmen, and killed Shophach the captain of the host.
The Bible is among other things history. People's actions are reported whether those acts were good or bad. There are a lot of bad things that went on but that does not mean that God authored them or approved of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
The subject under discussion is whether there are internal contratictions in the Bible. We are not trying here to understand everything that happened.
N the introduction to his translation of the "Gospel of St Luke" a christian scholar, j. b. phillips, has this to say — "on his own admission luke has carefully compared and edited existing material, but it would seem that he had access to a good deal of additional material, and we can reasonably guess at some of the sources from which he drew.
Okay, I won't give you any more reddies even when your facts are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
Your statement about "millions" of conrtadictions is absured.
There are only 30,811 verses in the whole Bible.
You seem to be hung up on numbers. What you have posted so far has no bearing on the history or teaching of the Bible. Whether God offered 7 or 3 years of famine is immaterial, since neither one happened.
Goldenwolf, the reason you can't find examples of contradictiions within the Bible is because there are none that affect history or teaching.
And you are saying,----what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
Is this the example of compassion shown by God for either Ammonites or Moabites? I don't see compassion for them..Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
Noted as strange... 1 King 11:1 But king Solomon loved many strange women, together with the daughter of Pharaoh, women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Zidonians, and Hittites;
11:2 Of the nations concerning which the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall not go in to them, neither shall they come in unto you: [for] surely they will turn away your heart after their gods: Solomon clave unto these in love.
There were there steps in Solomon fall. wealth.. weapons.. women.. (Deu 17:16-17)
1 King 11:6 And Solomon did evil in the sight of the LORD, and went not fully after the LORD, as did David his father.
resulted to: 1 King 11:11 Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee, and will give it to thy servant.
exception to: 1 King 11:13 Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.
One tribe Benjamin
Reap what you sow.. of choice the adversary was stirred up = satan
From the time after the flood when God made HIS covenant with Noah, the promise was to Noah and all Noah's seed. God's promise was true, and it has been man that make the choices toward the adversary satan in pride.
Satan continues to beguile man as done in the beginning with Adam and Eve. The choice has always been man's, in answering to God's calling to follow HIM willingly.
Wealth weapons and woman are the lust of man among many others. I think drink has to be another when you think of Noah not watching carefully to protect his home, and seeing satan beguile his son Ham.
The world today examples this same pattern of works. Rather then the righteous following of God's will. Man continues to enjoy the delusion of his choice in lust to be filthy. (Psalm 4)
But know that the LORD hath set apart him that is godly for himself: the LORD will hear when I call unto him.
`Simplicity in Christ.. Faith, Love, Trust, Hope
Revelation 22:11-12 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
classyT,
Yes God is sovereign. It is He only who is the judge.
Fred
Got to share a story here that I heard . Since its to do with bible contradictions .
There was a guy he was probably 18 or 19 . And he was a christian . And he couldn't understand about Jesus dying on the cross. And he asked his preacher about it if he could explain things that he Just could not understand.
And this preacher told him bible is full of Contradictions its not supposed to make any since Just agree with what ever it says weather it makes since or not. So this young Guy went out through his bible in the trash . And became an atheist for a while.
Then the guy had a couple of things happen to him he got robbed at gun point. Guy pulled trigger on him . But the guys gun Jammed so he made it out alive. Second he later got in a car wrecked flipped his car it was totally destroyed but he lived through it. He said a woman officer came up to him when he was laying on the ground hurt and said your lucky you made it out of this alive. God must really be looking out for you. I suggest you go find him..
He said later at the hospital he asked about the female officer . Turns out there was no female officer on duty that night .
He said it must have been an Angel from god letting me know he is still there for me. He said I struggled through religion trying to find out which one was right
And in the end he ends up becoming a Muslim . He does not believe god had a son or that Jesus is his son. He does not believe that Jesus ever died on a cross for sin. He now believes Jesus is a man Just like Moses or John the baptist...
Thought it was sad. All he went through because of an Idiot preacher who should have spent less time preaching and more time studying his bible. This kid now has denied the only one who can save his soul... And believes Christ to be nothing more than a lowly human
ironsheik7,
Your point is VERY well made.
I was given a book about angel stories as a Christmas gift.
That particular story was not in it but there was one quite similar.
It is amazing how many people have seen angels.
I have seen them very rarely but always in Church.
Angels without wings are very hard to identify for they can appear as almost any living thing.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Maybe the preacher was right,Quote:
Originally Posted by ironsheik7
And maybe the Earth is flat!Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviston
The church did actually believe for the longest time that the earth was flat,Quote:
Originally Posted by galveston
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