In matthew 13: 24-28. What the word weed means?
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In matthew 13: 24-28. What the word weed means?
"The kingdom of heaven is likened to a man that sowed good seed in his field. But while men were asleep, his enemy came and oversowed cockle among the wheat and went his way. And when the blade was sprung up, and had brought forth fruit, then appeared also the cockle. And the servants of the good man of the house coming said to him. Sir, didst thou not sow good seed in thy field? Whence then hath it cockle? And he said to them: An enemy hath done this. And the servants said to him: Wilt thou that we go and gather it up? And he said: No, lest perhaps gathering up the cockle, you root up the wheat also together with it. Suffer both to grow until the harvest, and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers: Gather up first the cockle, and bind it into bundles to burn, but the wheat gather ye into my barn." Matt 13:24-30
Cockle, some times rendered as tares, i.e. weed: a weed, as the darnel Lolium temulentum, or rye grass, L. perenne. (Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.)
I've come to learn that both the seed and the grass of the cockle look very much like wheat. The act of sowing over a wheat field with cockle was the preverbal dirty trick in antiquity, saved only for your most hated neighbor. If you think about it, you must really hate your neighbor to take the time to harvest the seed of a plant that dosen't provide sustenance and then take the time to sow it over somebody else's field. Now the good man must tend a field that containing both weed and sustaining wheat, and then expend additional labor to separate the two, if in fact he can. If the wheat is crowded out by the weed, you might lose the entire field.
This parable is comparing the Kingdom of God (the Church) with the man who sowed good seed. But, while the men slept an enemy sowed weeds in with the wheat, allowing nature to take its course. Only after the both wheat and cockle started to bear fruit could the difference be discerned. The servants wanted to get rid of the cockle, but the master knew that the good wheat would be up-rooted at that same time. So, the good man instructed the servants to gather both at harvest and then separate them.
The reference of men sleeping was a warning that those who are entrusted to keep the fields should remain diligent. The tares which look much like the wheat symbolizes a false faith sown by the antichrist and, like that of the cockle which vies for the same nutrients in the soil, the faithful maybe crowded out. Thus staying diligent and awake the Church "shall persevere unto the end, he shall be saved". (Matt 10:22)
Rightly, the servants of Christ are concerned that the weed may at sometime overtake the just, doing incurable harm. However, in wanting to remove the cockle before it ripens endangers the wheat. The effort to remove the cockle will uproot the wheat. So, we must suffer the unholy to grow alongside the holy. In the end the weeds will be carried off and burned and the faithful will receive their reward in heaven in the separation of the wheat from the tares.
JoeT
Matthew 13:24-28 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? Whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
The Kings James Version refer is [tares] as underlined above.
The Strong Concordance refer of the meaning to tares as being: a kind of darnel, bastard wheat resembling wheat except the grains are black.
This idea of tares being a black bastard wheat is the same idea of when Satan deceived Eve in the garden. Cain was the devils seed sown in deception, and the first murderer from the beginning. The tare sown, by Satan.
Cain was indeed the Devil's seed, but not literally.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Genesis 4:1
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
I've got to second that. This is rather a unique interpretation. Where did it come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
JoeT
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
2 Cr 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Adam and Eve were aware of their flesh bodies before God permitted their joining as one. I believe that is why God did not find favor in Cain verse Abel. Cain was conceived in deception caused by Satan to stop the birth of Christ.
John 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Genesis 4:1Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Then why does Scripture say "from the Lord"?
DeMaria, All souls belong to God..We know God determines whether a woman is to have children.. So we can see God did not stop Eve from having children. Eve was ordained by God to be the mother of all living. So for Eve to say, "I have gotten a man," it is to say in the blessing of a child that God determine the gender to be man..Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
The scripture goes on to say 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
Two male children, and note the word again"yacaph" to add or increase, continue. We can suppose they were twins where her labor continued or added to what came first.
The conception of fraternal twins can be two different time periods. So I can suppose that Cain was conceived outside of what we call wedlock or before God intended. This was the deception Satan caused and what is refer as bastard wheat or the beginning of tares.
The above discussion is very interesting and informative.
Thank you all very much.
Have a Merry, Holy Christmas,
Fred
But didn't God give Eve to be Adam's wife when He created her?Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
This is still in general of man and woman. (Adam means man)
Read Genesis 3:16-23 which examples the changes that were after Eve had been deceived. From what is said God permitted Eve desire for her husband, and charged that Adam should rule over her. Neither of this was true before she touch what she was told not to do. And infact Eve had ruled over Adam to bring him to eat what was said not to be touched. We should not be ignorant or naive to what the desire of flesh can lead us to doing. By verse 20 Adam calls Eve his wife. God confirmed man was made one knowing good and evil.
(note during this deception, it is the misleading words of evil by Satan' )
De Maria,
Very good question!
And
You answered it well.
Fred
I don't see it. Could you walk me through what you are talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Genesis 3:16-23 (King James Version)
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground whence he was taken.
Sincerely,
De Maria
As I understand it, "The Kingdom of God" includes a great deal more than "the Church". Do you really believe that the two are synonymous?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
De Maria.
Thanks much for that.
Fred
Let's take it back to Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And realize that God was please with what he had created. Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was] very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Now God rested on the seventh day.. all done Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Now we continue by God telling man=Adam not to touch the tree .. And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
In general God talks of man needing a woman, Note again (Adam means man) Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
This is still a statement that man and woman are made in general with the plan for them to marry. Man with woman.. The plan is in place for Adam, and one woman.
Genesis 3 come in and it's Satan who wants to deceive before God's plan for woman and man can bring forth the return of Christ through Eve the mother of all living. She would be the mother of all living because of Christ bringing us life.
Have I explained this enough for the thought to continue in the right path from here?
ordinaryguy,
I do believe that the Kingdom of God on earth is The Church.
It is where His word is preached and understand it taught.
It is where His followers are one with Him of one body each part of it with a certain function or calling.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
sndbay,
I do believe that God did institute marriage and did marry Adam and Eve.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Ohhhh, I don't think so. You've got a lot of dots to connect. How do we get from here to "tares being a black bastard wheat is the same idea of when Satan deceived Eve in the garden. Cain was the devils seed sown in deception, and the first murderer from the beginning. The tare sown, by Satan." You'll have to paint the entire picture, I still don't get it. You've got to remember, I can be thick headed.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
And, I'm not buying.
JoeT
JoeT777,
I'm having trouble with that also.
Fred
Posted #8
First let me clarify the suggestion of out of weblock being the idea that Eve had eaten with another other then her husband..because it does say she ate of it thereof and followed in saying she offered it also to her husband.. OR the second underlined suggestion was that the the desire was before God intended..Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
Posted #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
No I don't feel Genesis 2: 23-24 is specific in saying Adam and Eve are married. However I do feel the verses tell us that woman, when they was made on the sixth day (Genesis1: 27) were made second to man. The rib in Genesis 2:22 is a segolate form in Hebrew which can be read as rib-bone-bone marol. It is misleading to believe man has one less rib then woman, because it is not true. But to understand that woman was made by the bone marol of man making her as Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. She was made like man yet different in appearance. The appearance of the flesh was not yet introduces in awareness of any shame,(Genesis2:25) and the scripture before that went on to say.. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Clearly meaning a man and woman will leave mother and father to marry each other when the time comes and cleave unto her.
In the next chaper Genesis 3:4 has Satan telling woman the opposite truth from what God has warned. The deception begins in woman listening to Satan. Adam and Eve were married, and yet she is looking upon what Satan has offered. And I believe woman touched upon the idea of nudedness having desire, with Satan as the tree showing the knowledge of this idea is the evilness. Woman there of ate of it from the tree, and gave ALSO to her husband. We can read how this desire was offered to Adam secondly, and quoted in scripture: a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
So Cain was conceived out of weblock with another other then her husband, or before God intended and against God's warning. Either way it was by desire of the flesh which Satan offered in knowledge.
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Note desire will be for her husand... he rules over her so there is no going by another suggestion from someone other then him.
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;
Note it is that Adam ate of the same tree, and the scripture said a tree to be desired.(Genesis 3:6)
Joe sorry I had to leave because of the drifting snow storm we were experiencing yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeT777
The supposed idea is further offered, but please understand that each scripture given plants the seed of thought. It is up to God to reveal to each as He wants. I believe this idea more then any Apple or actual eating of fruit. The scriptures link together showing the mystery starting in the beginning.
There is reason why I find this idea clearly give idenite to the eaten fruit. For it was done before God intended in disobedience to God's warning. The desire of sex is the reason for covering the flesh.
2 Cr 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
This last verse suggests that should we go do what is contrary to what we are told by God, it would be the beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended, and warned not to do
2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
I'm not sure if you are saying that Eve actually had sexual relations with Satan. We don't believe that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
On the other hand, it has been suggested by one I'm aware of, that Adam and Eve may have had contraceptive sex.
Well from what scripture says, I can't warrant anything further then touching the desire there of which was offered by Satan. But I feel we can firmly say the disobedience that lead to sexual desire was what caused the covering of the flesh.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
As I posted to Joe previously, scripture further links the deception of Satan' attempts, can cause us to bear what is conceived in following him.
2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
The parable does also link with the seed that was sown by Satan from the beginning.
I can agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
So with this scripture in mind, would we agree that
to go contrary to what we are told by God, it would be a beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended?
And result with the devil's seed refer as tares?
Yes. I believe that would be consistent with God's referring to Israel as committing adultery in the Old Testament (Jer 13:27).Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
De Maria,
I much agree with that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Quote:
Originally Posted by sndbay
The Catholic Church doesn’t teach anything like this. To me it seems like twisted and forced interpretation.
In fact what we find is that the “seed of Cain” doctrine fosters a hate, primarily against Jews, Catholics, and blacks. I lived in the South and went through some of this in the early and late 60’s and I should have caught on right away. I just couldn't kick my memory in gear. As I learned today, the doctrine originates from a faith healer William M. Branham (1909-1965), and Daniel Parker (1791-1844) an earlier proponent. A central teaching Branham’s is a restoration of “the true apostolic faith” to the church. Included in some of controversial doctrines is “the serpent seed doctrine.” Parker was a Primitive Baptist with Gnostic like Manichaeism views. Parker published his views, Views on the Two Seeds, 1826.
The twisted verses work out as follows: The Serpent Seed doctrine held that Eve had sexual intercourse with an upright serpent, thought to be the ‘missing link’ between man and ape. Being cursed by God the serpent retains its current shape and form today. Cain was considered the offspring of satan. Adam on the other hand was considered pure. Intermarriage caused “inbreeding” and thus certain races were more pure than others.
The Catholic Church doesn’t comment on the doctrine however holds its own clear doctrine on original sin which in my opinion would preclude these views.
Branhamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Serpent seed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daniel Parker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
JoeT
JoeT777
Thanks much for that information some of it wild and weird as it is.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
JoeT777,
I fully agree with you. YES!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Depends on what you mean by Church. We believe the Church is the House of God. Therefore, yes, it is equivalent to Kingdom of God.Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself In the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
De Maria,
Yes millions of houses (many are mansions) of God have been built for the love of God and in which to love and worship God over the ages.
Merry Christmas.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
You assert a definitional equivalence here, but don't provide a reasoned argument. I'm not persuaded that any reasonable definition of "Church" is synonymous with the Kingdom of God. That you would equate the two makes me think that your view of the Kingdom is impossibly narrow and restrictive.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Maria
The Parable of The Weeds Explained Matthew 13:36-43 NIV,
36:: Then He left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said
explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.
37: He answered, the one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man
38: the field is the world, and the good seed stands for the Son of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39: and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters.
40: As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41: The Son of Man sends out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42: They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43: Then the rightous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has
ears let him hear.
I know many will not look the scripture up so I decided to type it out for you.
In case you haven't figured it out... the fiery furnace is HELL.
Maggie 3
Once again we are back to the interpretation of a word in a scripture, This is what I mean when I say "who knows?" When we don't know the correct meaning, how can we be so absolute with our assertions ?Quote:
Originally Posted by ordinaryguy
This makes it pretty clear that until the end of the age, which hasn't happened yet, the weeds are included and allowed to grow within The Kingdom. So, if The Kingdom is synonymous with The Church, then The Weeds are at the present time, i.e. before the harvest, contained within The Church.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maggie 3
It seems to me that the plain meaning of the text is that, at least until after The Harvest, there is much that is outside The Church, but within The Kingdom.
You're right, I wouldn't have. Thank you.Quote:
I know many will not look the scripture up so I decided to type it out for you.
The "weeds" have infiltrated Christain governments and Christian life through mass media to spread decadence and immorality.
In his Biblical account of those things which “must be hereafter,” St John spoke of this “beast” whose power was given to him by the ancient dragon, Satan himself. “Who can make war with the beast?” St John heard the multitudes exclaim in awe of the beast's powers. And today, it is the multitude of deluded Christian-Zionists who are in awe of the Israelis, turning a blind eye to their atrocities against the Palestinians.
Whether they know it or not, most Christians are being spoon fed false doctrine that allows the "weeds" to grow up around us.
DeMaria: Cain IS the literal seed of Satan.
Why did Adam and Eve cover their private parts before GOD? Satan corupted the line of Adam through which he knew the Lord of Lords would be arriving.
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