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Why is it that Christians judge people that are different from themselves? If you are an Atheist, so to speak, you are viewed as a devil worshipper, or an outcast. But in the Bible, Matthew 7:1-3 it says "Judge not or thou shall be judged the same way on Judgement Day".
To me this is hypocritical. What do you think?
Good question, why does anyone judge people that are different from themselves? I have years of experience on forums such as this - not to mention reading and watching the news, listening to talk radio, my everyday existence - and I find it doesn't matter if you're a Christian or not. And, in spite of those 'Christians' you speak of, it seems to me that Christians are judged more harshly than the other way around. Everyone has this inherent pride it seems, an inexplicable need to feel superior to others - it is not something peculiar to Christianity.Quote:
Why is it that Christians judge people that are different from themselves?
None of us should pass judgment on someone else until we put ourself in their shoes. That's not to say we should never judge others, but it serves us well to judge ourselves first and also first be charitable toward others.Quote:
If you are an Atheist, so to speak, you are viewed as a devil worshipper, or an outcast. But in the Bible, Matthew 7:1-3 it says "Judge not or thou shall be judged the same way on Judgement Day".
Like I hinted at before, there are more than enough hypocrites to go around. Christians should know better, but what's everyone else's excuse?Quote:
To me this is hypocritical. What do you think?
Yes, this one verse in matthew is one of the most used verses by the Heathen and non beleivers who do not want to be called for their sins and perversions.
But one also has to take it into context and along with all of the other many verses that tell us to help our fellow man, to talk to them and correct them ( so correcting them, telling them what they are doing wrong is not judging) and we are even to bring them in front of our church if they refuse to change.
And to be honest it is not judging if you merely use Gods words, since a person who does not accept Jesus as their savior is doomed, plain and simple, just keep reading the bible and you will find dozens of verses that tell you that a atheist is doomed and not saved, So I don't have to judge them, God has already judged them, and told us that in the bible.
So yes I can say without judging you, that if you are a atheist you are doomed to hell, because the bible says you are.
But I will go further a real atheist does not care, they don't believe, but would not care if I did believe. Those who pretend to be a atheist but attack the Christian faith are wolves in sheep clothing but for worst, since they are working for the devil attacking christians.
And of course Judge is a very poor translation, not even sure why it was used, if you look into the greek word Krinon you will see that it deals more with assuming things or even sue at law. But the main thing it also was written to christians in general about christians, that we are not to judge their faith, their belief in God, It is easy to tell a non beleiver who proclaims to be one what will happen to them, they bible tells us, we merely repeat Gods words to them.
You either serve God ( and Jesus) or you serve the devil, there is no between.
It's OK to judge or classify an activity or a behavior as being wrong or right. Jesus himself as well as the OT and NT tells us which behaviors are to be classified that way. For example, adultery, murder, theft, bearing false witness, disrespect of parents, idolatry, and the host of behaviors, such as child sacrifices which the Caananites were practicing are described as wrong and we are expected to view these behaviors as being wrong.
Society is kept civilized via judgement and classification of behaviors as right or wrong
And the sanctioning of them accordingly. Criminals are ostracized while well-behaved citizens are praised.
BTW
As the poster above tells us, this is a human tendency not Just a Christian one. So in essence what you are really disagreeing with is human nature itself. Correct?
First of all, how can I be doomed to hell when I do not even believe in Hell? Can you show me physical evidence that Hell exists, and I will go there?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
Second of all, I am in no way attacking the Christian faith, I am simply pointing out flaws.
Third, you talk about the words of God being written in the Bible but are you sure that that was actually "God" saying those passages? You can hold an apple in your hand, and can believe and have faith that its an orange, but when you finally open your eyes and see it, and feel it, belief and faith has nothing to do with it. You KNOW that its still just an apple.
As far as me having to choose one side or the other, I do not believe that either side exists, I believe in science. So if I have to pick a side, I will believe what can be proven, not a folklore.
It does not matter if you don't believe, you are doomed because you don't believe in Christ, Read the bible, you seem to know it, and want to try to use it against Christians.
So if you don't believe, why come to a Christian board, because you want to attack, ( you call it pointing out flaws) if you don't believe there is a god why care ? Because those that don't believe serve another master and you do their will.
You're right. I do know the Bible, along with many other types of religion.
I come to the Christianity board because I have knowledge that I feel can be useful to someone else, along with me learning new things. While I have been answering questions on this forum I have stated my opinion, which is not a crime. I'm sure I have made a lot of people angry, but everyone has a right to their opinion.
You're right about the fact that I don't believe there is a God, but I do have a great knowledge of Christianity, Baptist, Atheist, Satanist and other religions. My goal here is to educate and possibly learn something new. What I have been involved in thus far can be classified as conversations. No real question has been asked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
Yes it is.
But aren't you judging Christians yourself? Implying that they are judgemental and hypocritical.
I am judgemental, I am human. Haven't you ever judged someone based on their gender, age, ethnicity, the way they dress, or the way they talk, on the way they behave, or what they believe in?
I am hypocritical, I am human.
I realize these things about myself, that is why I need a Savior.
Grace and Peace
Guys, Guys! Science and religion actually complament each other. I'm a baptist. I beilive that god created all things and that he designed all life to adept to its surrondings, which are ever changing. Look up: divine design. Furthermore science says that all the living matter and non-living matter in the universe is made of recycled star gases. "And God formed man the dust of the earth, breathing into his nostrils the breath of life."-- Genesis. God means for all of us to live in harmony, I know its hard, I'm nowere near perfect neither of us is. We all have sins, Lord knows I done the same thing I'm preaching against. We have have not the power to change hearts only god does, so pray for a person that does not know god, talk to them but in gental manner don't try not to get puffed with how much you, because in god's eyes we know next to nothing.
otto186, do you really want to help and learn, or would you rather be "simply pointing out flaws"? My experience tells me critics of Christianity would much rather be pointing out flaws, which is counterproductive when it comes to helping and learning. So help me learn something since you believe in science...Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
I read yesterday on a University of Michigan website that, "In the very beginning there was nothing except for a plasma soup." Do you believe that, and if so how what is "plasma soup" and how did it come into being?
Hello otto:Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
I'm an atheist. I have Christian friends. As far as I know, they don't view me that way.
Do you speechdude?
I don't know. Looks to me like YOU'RE the one doing the judging.
excon
Primarily, you are talking about *Funda-Evangelical Christians*, the uneducated Christians by and large, not mainline Christians such as Episcopalians or Presbyterians, etc.
For some reason, many are unable to understand that they are to improve themselves in their Walk with Christ, not attack others and ignore their faults!
I think of that unfortunate Tammy Faye Bakker who died a couple of days ago. She and her husband swindled poor gullible F/E Christians out of huge amounts of money to build their mansion and other endeavors... out of pure greed and hypocrisy. Yet, the woman thought she would "go to heaven" because she "loved the Lord". IN the Christian worldview, she is more likely burning in hell.
Fundi-Ev Christianity in America today has been corrupted by its marriage with Politics just like anything else is *always corrupted* by Politics.
There are a couple registered here that have posted just what the OP wrote. I can dig up links if you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
Edit to add:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...tml#post501698
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...tml#post505281
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/christ...tml#post505347
Ex, I'd have a cold beer with you any day. Oops, Christians aren't supposed to like beer are they? I guess I'm a hypocrite after all :DQuote:
Originally Posted by excon
Choux, thank you for helping prove my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choux
Ditto what I just said. You people seem to be under the impression that only Christians should be held accountable for their hypocrisy, their unwarranted attacks on others and improving their own "walk" in this world.Quote:
For some reason, many are unable to understand that they are to improve themselves in their Walk with Christ, not attack others and ignore their faults!
Wrong! She may have erred in her "greed and hypocricy" but the Christian worldview is none of us are worthy of heaven without relying on faith and trust in Jesus and His sacrifice. It's not about us Choux, it's about what Jesus did on our behalf.Quote:
I think of that unfortunate Tammy Faye Bakker who died a couple of days ago. She and her husband swindled poor gullible F/E Christians out of huge amounts of money to build their mansion and other endeavors... out of pure greed and hypocrisy. Yet, the woman thought she would "go to heaven" because she "loved the Lord". IN the Christian worldview, she is more likely burning in hell.
Like I asked before what's everyone else's excuse?Quote:
Fundi-Ev Christianity in America today has been corrupted by its marriage with Politics just like anything else is *always corrupted* by Politics.
I think you have it wrong, Christians don't judge people but follow their religion which is to spread the message of Jesus Christ. When a Christian finds someone appearently ignorant of the message, a Christian will tell you about Jesus and the reason for his life and death which is to allow you to overcome sin. You think that by telling you that without Jesus you are a sinner and therefore lost is judgement, you are incorrect. As an atheist you are lost and will inevietably suffer judgement.
Of course I'm lost, I'm very bad with directions LOL. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
I can't find any information on "plasma soup", and that was the only sentence about it in that whole article.Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
This is new to me, for I have not heard of it before. I couldn't tell you what plasma soup is, but I stand by the Big Bang Theory 100%.
First, what the heck is speechdude?Quote:
Originally Posted by excon
I'm not judging anybody, just merely making observations on what I've seen in my experiences.
No one is lost just because they do not practice the same religion as you do. You simply feel superior to them which is a misguided attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by paraclete
Speechless, I have to say that I've never understood the argument that is used many times by christians that "Everything is created by something else, so what created the big bang?". I don't see why this argument doesn't apply to God. And if it doesn't apply to God, why it can't apply to something else.
Please feel free to explain.
Try this then:Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
It's that "pure speculation" that drives the debate. Where did it come from? Only one side of the debate offers an answer that I believe would be consistent with science, there had to be a creator to get from nothing to complex life forms. How anyone can believe otherwise is beyond comprehension... and if science acknowledges this beginning is speculation than science needs to acknowledge the possibility of a creator.Quote:
At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What existed prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation.
Where did the creator come from?Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I'm speechdude, and I don't judge ex the way you say Christians judge others.Quote:
Originally Posted by otto186
Capuchin, I don't believe I've used that argument so I don't get it either. Here's what I just told otto:Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
It's that "pure speculation" that drives the debate. Where did it come from? Only one side of the debate offers an answer that I believe would be consistent with science, there had to be a creator to get from nothing to complex life forms. How anyone can believe otherwise is beyond comprehension...and if science acknowledges this beginning is speculation than science needs to acknowledge the possibility of a creator.Quote:
At the point of this event all of the matter and energy of space was contained at one point. What existed prior to this event is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation.
We can't explain where God came from any more than science can conclusively explain how this nothingness became you and me. To me it is more logical to believe something created this universe and all it contains, how such order came to be out of such chaos, than to believe it all developed by chance.
You must surely believe that something created the creator, then, as the creator must be at least as ordered as the universe which it created, by your own logic.
Why should I surely believe that? I believe that man does not know everything, and never will - that some things are beyond our comprehension. When I think about where God came from it blows my mind as much as the thought that all matter was condensed to one point and exploded into things that eventually became living, breathing, thinking beings. Both are perplexing if you ask me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Like science, I can only explain what's observed, and my observation is that order out of chaos just doesn't happen by accident. I used to be in building trades, and when we put a roof on a house we didn't throw shingles up there and hope for a roof. We didn't take stacks of bricks and wait for them to become a wall, watch a fence spring forth from bundles of pickets, plywood become cabinets, or rolls of wire evolve into a functioning electrical center. What makes anyone think this universe and all the life it contains developed without something to put it all together? It just does not make sense.
So God couldn't have happened by accident, right?
You're trying to take this further than either of us can go - and put me a trap I can't escape from. I said "observation" tells us things don't just happen. None of us observed the beginning of things so it's speculation, but to me what we do observe points to an inescapable conclusion, the things we are aware of don't just happen, there is some force at work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Whatever was previous to that beginning is something we can't prove, and since time began at that point whatever it was must be eternal. So what makes more sense, an eternal God or an eternal... what?
Read further...Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedKarma
Since at the time of the Big Bang, everything was in the form of Energy, we can very easily skip out the middle man and say that Energy is eternal. This conforms with what we observe: energy (and mass, which is just a different form of energy) can neither be created or destroyed.
I don't see any logical point in saying that God created the energy and that God is eternal. That's just moving the question back one step.
I'm perplexed as to where the energy came from at the big bang. I see no value in saying "oh that's easy, god made it" and then getting perplexed over where God came from. That's completely superfluous.
Capuchin, I am neither a scientist or skilled apologist, so to get any deeper is beyond my limited knowledge. Imagine that, a Christian that knows his limits. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Why is it a step back? It does not explain how life came from non-life.Quote:
I don't see any logical point in saying that God created the energy and that God is eternal. That's just moving the question back one step.
I never said it was easy, I just don't find any logic in getting such complex life forms by chance.Quote:
I'm perplexed as to where the energy came from at the big bang. I see no value in saying "oh that's easy, god made it" and then getting perplexed over where God came from. That's completely superfluous.
But you accept that the Big Bang is not evidence for God, which is what we were actually talking about?
I thought it was about who/what created the Creator if "Everything is created by something else." Regardless, my answer is in agreement with science, in that "what existed prior to (the beginning) is completely unknown and is a matter of pure speculation." Logic and observation tells me there had to be a creator... and experience tells me that it's God and He's real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
I don't see the need for a creator. I think your analogy to throwing bits of wood in a pile and getting a cupboard and shelves is not very accurate.
You have to realise that no scientist who has studied the area believes that life formed by chance. They believe that it formed by complex interactions between complex molecules under the right conditions. There is evidence that amino acids (basic building blocks of life) can form even in space, and that the first self replicating organism (that is needed for evolution to take hold) need not be complex.
Even if it did happen by chance, with a LARGE number of trials going on at any one time, and the LARGE amount of time available to do those trials in, even large odds become very possible to happen once.
You argument amounts to an argument from incredulity.
More about the odds thing... Say you're playing a game of golf. There are maybe several million (conservative guess) blades of grass that your shot can land on. Your shot lands on one of those blades. The chance of it landing on that one blade in one trial is 1 in several million. By your logic, it cannot have concievably happened. Do you have an explanation as to why it happened?
And I don't see the possibility of these complex interactions leading to advanced life forms that can think, reason, feel, love - occurring without external manipulation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
"They believe"Quote:
You have to realise that no scientist who has studied the area believes that life formed by chance. They believe that it formed by complex interactions between complex molecules under the right conditions. There is evidence that amino acids (basic building blocks of life) can form even in space, and that the first self replicating organism (that is needed for evolution to take hold) need not be complex.
Even if it did happen by chance, with a LARGE number of trials going on at any one time, and the LARGE amount of time available to do those trials in, even large odds become very possible to happen once.
You argument amounts to an argument from incredulity.
"under the right conditions"
"can form"
"Even if"
"very possible"
That sounds an awful lot like faith to me.
The belief is based on empirical fact. Not on a single book.
Belief and faith are different.
Now THAT's easy. When I'm playing golf I have a ball, a club and a course - hopefully with millions and millions of blades of beautiful green grass. I take my club, address the ball, swing and - hopefully - strike the ball in the direction of those blades of grass. When I play golf it is inevitable that my ball is going to touch many blades of grass (and probably a water hazard). Everything that's necessary for my ball to land on that blade of grass is in existence and I have intentionally aimed for that particular area, so why not that one blade?Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Haha, seriously? You could get a hole in one every time but you don't because you aim for specific pieces of grass? You're that accurate?
How about a hand of bridge? You get a combination of 13 cards out of one deck. The chance of getting the 13 cards that you get is 1 in 635013559600. Now how about with a game of four people? The possible number of games of bridge from the initial deal is 53,644,737,765,488,792,839,237,440,000. Now, every time you deal a game, you get a game that only had a 1 in 53,644,737,765,488,792,839,237,440,000 chance of happening. Completely by chance, no intelligence has gone into making that particular deal happen. By your logic, this is clearly an impossibility. Do you have an explanation?
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