Today's Gospel lesson. Jesus tells of one one work that is required.
Today's Gospel (Jn 6:22-29): After Jesus had fed the five thousand, his disciples saw him walking on the water. Next day the people who had stayed on the other side realized that only one boat had been there and that Jesus had not entered it with his disciples; rather, the disciples had gone away alone. Bigger boats from Tiberias came near the place where all these people had eaten the bread. When they saw that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum looking for Jesus.

When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, «Master, when did you come here?». Jesus answered, «Truly, I say to you, you look for me, not because you have seen through the signs, but because you ate bread and were satisfied. Work then, not for perishable food, but for the lasting food which gives eternal life. The Son of Man will give it to you, for he is the one the Father has marked». Then the Jews asked him, «What shall we do? What are the works that God wants us to do?». And Jesus answered them, «The work God wants is this: that you believe in the One whom God has sent».
:confused:Want are other works which the New Testament tells us are required?:confused:
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

John 6:26 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

This meat is spoke of by Paul in detail. Note His word of advise:

Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, [even] those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Hebrew 6:1-3

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

And this will we do, if God permit.

I just did a translation of this passage and the word "required" is not in the Greek. Literally it should be translated:

"What shall we do in order that we might work the works of God?" And further:

..."This is the work of God, that you believe of Him Who He sent"

Jesus is saying that believing that Jesus is the ONE God wants us to know is what He wants us to be doing.

All, and only, the works of man produced from being in Christ through faith in Him are acceptable to God. Christ's work, perfect obedience even to the cross, is the only work which saves anyone. When faith is Him and when this faith in His work is "worked" in us then we can and will do good works acceptable/pleasing to God:

Heb 11:5-6

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
NIV


What is confusing to natural logic is that salvation is a gift from God. To avoid the penalty of sin (eternal separation from God) one must have been perfectly/completely/always obedient to God and His will. The only one able to do this is the Son of God Who came from heaven and took on human flesh to be under the Law, and Who, alone, could fulfill it perfectly.
Our salvation is in Him.

God called us, in Him, that we would do the works of God. We still don't do them perfectly but are being restored by God's power to be more like Him in our lives of loving activity towards our neighbor. This DOES earn us rewards. But not salvation... since salvation is already ours as a gift from God. And when we fail in doing these works, we have forgiveness and are still considered righteous in Christ... but we may lose some of the temporal rewards or even be chastised in love by God.

I've been "long-winded" because we need to hear again and again that it's all about God's love for us and His power in our lives.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by revdrgade

What is confusing to natural logic is that salvation is a gift from God. To avoid the penalty of sin (eternal separation from God) one must have been perfectly/completely/always obedient to God and His will.

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Grace is love, and that love is a gift freely given in salvation. God wants are love in return, freely given to HIM in obedience of HIS will. As His child take His hand and walk with HIM.(willingly)

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Originally Posted by revdrgade

And when we fail in doing these works, we have forgiveness and are still considered righteous in Christ... but we may lose some of the temporal rewards or even be chastised in love by God.

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When we fail, it is our hearts that God knows to judge. God will teach us as we reap from what we sow, a lesson in obedience that brings goodness forward.

But I will add that the meat is the step beyond what is being said here. If God is willing, an individual will go beyond the milk to the meat of discernment in righteousness, and living accordingly because they understand right from wrong.


And this will we do, if God permit.

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Originally Posted by sndbay

Grace is love, and that love is a gift freely given in salvation. God wants are love in return, freely given to HIM in obedience of HIS will. As His child take His hand and walk with HIM.(willingly)



When we fail, it is our hearts that God knows to judge. God will teach us as we reap from what we sow, a lesson in obedience that brings goodness forward.

But I will add that the meat is the step beyond what is being said here. If God is willing, an individual will go beyond the milk to the meat of discernment in righteousness, and living accordingly because they understand right from wrong.


And this will we do, if God permit.

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Hebrew 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

revdrgade,
Well said.
Thanks
Fred

But I will add that the meat is the step beyond what is being said here. If God is willing, an individual will go beyond the milk to the meat of discernment in righteousness, and living accordingly because they understand right from wrong.


And this will we do, if God permit. [/QUOTE]

In my passing years (many of them have past) I've noted that all followers of Christ are immature in some area of their walk with Him. Even those who are eating the meatier teachings don't know all the blessings God wants to give us here on earth and haven't been tested in all aspects of their strong faith in God and His love for them.

The Ten Commandments already give us a good and perfect understanding of right from wrong. On the other hand, maturity in sanctification(the holiness while still on earth type) helps us both in knowing the difference but helps us in overcoming the wrong and moves and enables us to do what is good and right according to God's will and pleasure.



Ps 37:25-31

25 I was young and now I am old,yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken nor their children begging bread. 26 They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed.

27 Turn from evil and do good ;then you will dwell in the land forever. 28 For the Lord loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones.
They will be protected forever,but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off; 29 the righteous will inherit the land and dwell in it forever.

30 The mouth of the righteous man utters wisdom,and his tongue speaks what is just. 31 The law of his God is in his heart;his feet do not slip.
NIV

revdrgade
Yes indeed. I do think that many of us are somewhat immature Christians in some way.
Full Christian maturity was hard to come by even for some of the saints.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I think Jesus was telling them basically that no amount of "good works" of the flesh can make things right with God.
Many unsaved ask, "What must I do to be saved?" All religions say, "here is a list of things you must do to know God the way we do." They don't know God.
Only true Christianity agrees with Christ in that there is nothing you can physically DO. Christ has already done it for you. It is just your job(work) to believe it. The good works that FOLLOW already being saved are from the indwelling Spirit of Christ/God.

homesell,
I disagree.
Faith is but one of the works Jesus tells us we need to do, another is to be baptized.
The new Testament has many references about work and foe his followers to do the works He did including spreading the good news.
Those, I believe, are expected.
Fred.

Fred, I know, the Bible says be Baptized FOR your sins. A person is Baptized because they have already been saved, not to help them get saved, but here is an example: A convicted murderer is sentenced to death. He is put to death FOR murder not to help him murder. And... as I've mentioned before, the good works that were created in Christ Jesus for us to do before the foundation of the earth are because God has already saved us and these works are the promptings of the spirit within. "WHATSOEVER you do that is not of the Spirit, is sin." That's why all our righteousness(good works we do) are filthy rags trying to clean us. God says. "I will cleanse you and I will take away your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

I just have a question...

What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He didn't get down off the cross and get baptized, but after he said that he believed Jesus was the Son of God, Jesus said, "Today you will be with me"...

What does that mean if baptism is required for entrance into heaven? Jesus lied to that man?

Or does it truly mean that only faith is necessary for salvation?

Right historian chick. Even in Freds lesson the people asked what good works(plural) shall we do to be saved and Jesus replied , This is the work(singular) of God is that you believe in the one he has sent.

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Originally Posted by HistorianChick

I just have a question...

What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He didn't get down off the cross and get baptized, but after he said that he believed Jesus was the Son of God, Jesus said, "Today you will be with me"...

What does that mean if baptism is required for entrance into heaven? Jesus lied to that man?

Or does it truly mean that only faith is necessary for salvation?

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You are right and at the same time you are quoting a wrong common misconception, i.e.: that baptism is a necessary "good work" on our part.

Baptism is a means (one of the means) by which God's saving and sanctifying grace is given to mankind. We are given the command to baptize but we only submit to being baptism and really doing nothing ourselves except submitting.

It is only faith which saves us. And it is because of faith that we are baptized. People sought baptism as something from God and not a good work of their own by which they would redeem themselves in any way:

Lk 7:29-30
30 But the Pharisees and experts in the law rejected God's purpose for themselves, because they had not been baptized by John.)
NIV

Ac 8:36-38

36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized ?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
NIV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by revdrgade

Ac 8:36-38

36 As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized ?" 38 And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him.
NIV

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What happened to verse 37?

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

Belief has to precede baptism.

Baptism is association with, not means of.

Fred,

Did you realize that everything that Jesus said, and everything that Jesus did was NOT "Christian." It was JEWISH and under the LAW. Mathew, Mark, Luke and JOHn... dare I say it... are JEWISH!! They are about a JEW! LIVING UNDER THE LAW. Christianity didn't begin until AFTER Christ rose again from the dead. Grace didn't start until after the Jews rejected him... shocking... isn't it.

Let me say one thing... Ok maybe it will be more than ONE... BUT when a JEW got baptized back in the day... let me tell you, people took NOTICE. When Peter proclaimed... to repent and be baptized for the remission of sins... let me tell you... they NEEDED to repent and be baptized for the remission of SINS. GRACE hadn't started... they were still awaiting Jesus and His earthly KINGDOM. There was NO SUCH THING AS CHRISTIANITY.

NOW, having said all that. Jesus asked us to be baptized so we do.. not for salvation but in obedience to him. If you read Paul epistles ( you remember PAUL.. the apostle to the GENTILES) he even says something like... I don't remember who the heck I baptized.(.ok that was me paraphrasing,) my point is if baptisim was a requirement for salvation... Paul wouldn't have been so glib about it. That is just one MINOR point there are a ton of reasons baptism is NOT a requirement. Consider this... you can't baptize yourself.. so basically you don't just need the finished work of the LORD.. you need someone to baptize you too. I guess death bed confessions are out of the question. Please... when my Savior does something... he FINISHES it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HistorianChick

I just have a question...

What about the thief on the cross next to Jesus? He didn't get down off the cross and get baptized, but after he said that he believed Jesus was the Son of God, Jesus said, "Today you will be with me"...

What does that mean if baptism is required for entrance into heaven? Jesus lied to that man?

Or does it truly mean that only faith is necessary for salvation?

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Chick,


Oh I have been round and round this one too. The people that claim baptism is NEEDED say that Jesus hadn't died and rose again... so it is null and void. Plus they say He could forgive anyone he wanted because he is God. It is a silly argument though... HE CANNOT and WILL NOT go outside of his WORD. He won't just forgive someone on account of him being GOD... He places his WORD above his NAME.

ClassyT , I think you misunderstood historian chick. She is asking if that doesn't prove that Baptism isn't necessary and yes it does prove that. The thief on the cross did the ONE work that God requires... belief in his Son. If you knew how many pastors are judged by their congregations and the world by how many Baptisms they do a year, you might see why Baptism is emphasized. If it's not Baptism, it's church membership, if it's not church membership, it's giving... seems there is always something man wants to tack on, so that he can judge his fellow human beings relationship with God.

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Originally Posted by homesell

ClassyT , I think you misunderstood historian chick. She is asking if that doesn't prove that Baptism isn't necessary and yes it does prove that. The theif on the cross did the ONE work that God requires...belief in his Son. If you knew how many pastors are judged by their congregations and the world by how many Baptisms they do a year, you might see why Baptism is emphasized. If it's not Baptism, it's church membership, if it's not church membership, it's giving...seems there is always something man wants to tack on, so that he can judge his fellow human beings relationship with God.

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Homeslice, ( hee hee sorry couldn't resist;))

I actually did understand her... I probably was confusing in my response. I am with you 100%. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by classyT

If you read Paul epistles ( you remember PAUL..the apostle to the GENTILES) he even says something like...i don't remember who the heck i baptized.(.ok that was me paraphrasing,) my point is if baptisim was a requirement for salvation.....Paul wouldn't have been so glib about it. .

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Paul said in scripture Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel. (1 Cr 1:17)

Other scripture in reference of this has it that Paul preach the gospel, and allowed the work of the synagogue do the baptism.

Paul said he baptized the house of Stephanas, and perhaps others he wasn't sure. (1 Cr 1:16)Understand the house of Stephanas was the Christian convert of Corinth...

Paul's concern was that someone might think he baptized in his own name ( 1 Cr 1:15) and actually wanted it clear who he had baptized. (1 Cr 1:14) so Paul named who he had baptized,.

1>Crispus known as the ruler of the Jewish synagogue in Corinth
2>Gaius known as a man from Derbe who went with Paul from Corinth in his last journey to Jerusalem.

In Act 19 Paul brings attention to being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.