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Originally Posted by Angela_A

Inputs from mothers please...

I know this is a sensitive topic but as an adult child and chatting with friends, I have found this to be a common phenomenon. Any thoughts would be appreciated to relieve this pain.

Mothers seem to be (and are) destroying their children's life on purpose. First subconsciously then as years go by, they would do it on purpose.

For example, they would frown upon the children's success by saying things like... so what if you are gettting good mark at school... so what if you are earning a living yourself.... And they have actions to go along with their words such as making noise when you study or phoneing your workplace to disturb you.

Thoughts please.

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I personally don't know of any mothers that hate their children (only what I have read in a few books), nor would I want too!

You should read...and maybe you have, "The Boy Called IT".....it is truely an amazing, yet disgusting, heartwrenching true story of what this child endured for so many years at the hands of his mother and the CPS system that ignored him while he was lost in. How he ever made it is beyond me.

The most amazing thing is that HE FORGIVES his mother for all that she has done.....which I suppose may seem impossible to me, but this may be the only way for him to move on and try to live a somewhat normal life. Maybe thats part of the answer for some.

If you haven't read it, you should. I am sure there are other books out there too, written by those that have actually experienced this... I'm sure any info/light that they can shed would be invaluable, as would support groups of this kind, or even mental health experts experienced in that field. I myself have no clue as to the WHY's a mother would actually hate any of her children. Thats all I have for now. Good luck hun in trying to understand. ((hugz))

I'm a mother of 3 grown children. I cannot for the life of me understand why "any" mother would treat her child in that manner. No it isn't normal. Narcissism is more like it.

It took me years to finally realize that the reason my adoptive "mother" beat the hell out of me and verbally and emotionally abused me was because she truly hated me.

I wasn't even adopted because I was wanted. She just got my brother and me as charity cases. She really did love her 2 biological children, but my face and honestly my existence drove her into a blind rage on a regular basis. She even admitted to treating me worse because she said I was "hard to reach". What a crock of sh*t!

But I have seen the toxic behavior of other mothers, and it is usually directed toward their daughters. I think that they don't want to see their daughters succeed where they have failed. And there is also the jealousy factor. Toxic mothers can be jealous of their daughters' youth, beauty, and success and will verbally undermine them when given the chance. Women in general can be terrible creatures.

In the animal kingdom, some animal mothers will eat their young or will feed one offspring to the other. I don't think humans are much more evolved.

I think there are two things that are going on - unrelated.

One is that the mothers are depressed. Being a mother can be very isolating and depleting unless the mother understands that she has to maintain her friendships and some fulfilling activities of her own, and teaches and implores her family to treat her like a human being. I think a lot of moms are critical and dismissive of their family members because when people are depressed, they act depressive, including being crabby, short, critical and negative.

The other phenomenon is that mother's feel a need to be involved in their children's lives and when they grow older and start exerting some independence, they aren't sure how to cut the apron strings. They call you at work, and play "devil's advocate" ("don't let one good grade get to your head - you need a whole semester of them"... or, "it's a little early to celebrate - you've lost the 5 pounds which is good but you have 45 to go!"). They do this kind of stuff, which can cut their child (of any age) off at the knees, because a mother's greatest fear is that her children will not be alert to things in the world that can go wrong and be destructive to them. When she can no longer be there all the time, she unloads all the things she's protected her children from up to that point on the child in the form of unsolicited comments about things that can go wrong, can be dangerous, can steer them in the wrong direction... It's her way of continue to be a mother and it comes from love and fear, not hatred at all.

If your mother is doing this to you, as both a Mom and an adult daughter who's been through this with my own mother, I would suggest that you do two things. First, instill confidence in your mom by demonstrating on a regular basis that you make well-considered, safe, positive choices - live your life in a healthy, positive way and move in a positive direction. Second, be patient. When you were four and singing the same song relentlessly in the back seat of the car; or when you were in high school and your giddy, immature friends were disturbing her quiet home; or when you were a sick baby and she had to nurse you and wait for you to stop crying - for hours or day - she showed terrific patience. Now, you owe it back to her. It's hard to let go, to trust that your child will be safe, and it feels like neglect to us Moms to do it. Give us a little time, know we mean well, and know we sometimes can't help it!

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Originally Posted by Angela_A

Inputs from mothers please...

I know this is a sensitive topic but as an adult child and chatting with friends, I have found this to be a common phenomenon. Any thoughts would be appreciated to relieve this pain.

Mothers seem to be (and are) destroying their children's life on purpose. First subconsciously then as years go by, they would do it on purpose.

For example, they would frown upon the children's success by saying things like... so what if you are gettting good mark at school... so what if you are earning a living yourself.... And they have actions to go along with their words such as making noise when you study or phoneing your workplace to disturb you.

Thoughts please.

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It think that is horrible and if I have a child I promise to never do that.

I think the day I realized my mom couldn't care less about me, really hurt and still does. Years went by with me arguing over me saying that she doesn't care and her saying that's not what she said and don't put words in her mouth. Then she would say that Im paranoid. This went on for so long, Im 54 now and its only last year that I finally stopped arguing because I wasn't paranoid and she didn't care if I lived or died. How did I know? Well put it this way.Last year I went into the hospital for knee surgery in the recovery room I started to stop being able to breathe and she just sat there staring at me I yelled at her as best as I could when I woke up I thought it was a dream. My mom went to get help after I passed out.

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Originally Posted by Tuscany

Having children does not make you a mother...that makes you able to have children

Being a mother is so much more then giving birth. Mothers are best friends, cheerleaders, caregivers, a shoulder to cry on, support, love unconditionally, mediator, rule maker and so much more.

Just because someone has a child does not mean that they are a mom...unfortuately that is the sad truth.

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My mum pretty much abandomed me at birth, in her mind she did not, but leaving me with abusive babysitters, letting me get involved in drugs, encourage alcohol and smoking cigarettes should have been a red light for any outsider looking in, i.e.. Social services. She seems to think the children that I have bourne are somehow hers and now wants to show a mothering nature, her actions in my opinion are way too late. When she looks at me she looks at me with contempt and anything I do have to say about my unbringing is ignored and she does not want to discuss it, this in the longterm has in actual fact made me really hate my mother which is surely a negative feeling to have. When I explained things that have happened to me during my growing up she does not want to listen and has excuses for the people who have treated me with abuse in the past, surely any mother would explain to her child that these actions were wrong, as I would with my children. It really has come to the point that I question why I have missing teeth, tattoos and a wart up my nose - unfortunately for me I have no answers from this dumbfounded woman who proclaims to be my mother - surely if you look up the word mother in the dictionary the word nurturing would be one of its meanings. My brother who looks more like my mother i.e. a huge nose and scarey blue eyes is absolutely the apple and can do nothing wrong and is especially extremely boring as she is, i.e. boardering on a demented wet nurse who cannot socialise with anyone above the age of 10 years. Ultimately I find rejecting people can enforce a dislike for others of such characters but of course this is unjust and unfair although I really cannot bring myself to date to have anything at all in common with this woman, she also makes an infuriating noise when eating, and is a complete overaged nymphamaniac, with serious sexual health problems.

The message posted about undeserving mothers sounds as if it has been written to maybed a woman who's children have left home or maybe a woman who does not have any children. Before making acquasation you should really look at all circumstances i.e.. Are they mentally impared children in the household, is there in fact enough living space, or are the children in fact on top of each other, does the family have any money, does the mother have to work all hours, is the mother a refugee, does the mother have any friends who help etc... Is the mother racially abused etc, like being made fun of i.e. looking like a fairy and totally useless of anything other than looking good... tut tut to your sent email you sound like to me you could be a potential kidnapper of children if you have so much contempt towards mothers or you are a gay father who cannot actually experience the pains of labours and the immedicate connection a mother and child have. I would like to say finally that I disagree totally with your statement.

This response from the

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disagree totally

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person, is disturbing. You sound like you're a mom with a kid who hates you. Where did you get your knowledge, certainly you haven't read all the threads above and is thinking we are making this up.

I strongly believe its' oneself spirt that would bring out the lack of support of parenthood and place upon another.which ever it maybe.. but at the end the child would bring this attitude into their generations. At 19 I gave my child to it's father knowing I look at my family at that time for support. At 19 had an unfaithful and you name it marriage. I knew at that time I didn't want to struggle,with the strong feeling I didn't feel or have love for the child I didn't want these feeling to exculade into something worst. My family wouldn't help me that I needed time to get my thoughts together but I didn't want to be like my sisters and stay in the same type of marriage. I knew I made my descission and to this day never regretted it .I did what was best for the child and 28 years later not seeing him but knowing he had a closer family his father side and well educated.And all I can say to the father is thank-you

To the moms who allowed their child's father to take custody of the child--

I say you are brave and honest and are true mothers. It takes a strong woman to admit that the bond may not be there, or that she doesn't feel that she would be the best parent for the child. That's true love. It's like giving your baby up for adoption, in a sense.

If only other mothers would do the same if they truly felt that they didn't want to be mothers. Then there wouldn't be so many of us children in the world who had been wounded (physically and mentally) by women who wouldn't admit to themselves that mothering wasn't for them. There's nothing in the world wrong with not reproducing. And should you use your reproducing equipment, you don't have to keep your offspring. There are plenty of people in the world who will "mother" your child for you. There's no shame in that.

People glorify that "mothering instinct". But in reality, it doesn't exist. Sure, our bodies go through physiological changes when we give birth which allow us to keep our offspring alive (through breastfeeding). We also have "nurturing" hormones, but I believe that mothering is taught. Even in the animal kingdom, among primates, they will kill their offspring if they haven't been taught to nurture.

There is a "dark side" to mothering that people don't talk about, and I really am glad to see that there are those of you out there who are willing to discuss it. Even for mothers who want to keep their children, sometimes the bond doesn't happen for months or years. But if they dared mention that to anyone, they would be outcasts.

But for the women who truly hate their children, I have no sympathy for them. As I mentioned in a previous post, I had a "mother" like that. And she adopted me. I grew up under the spell of another myth that I was "wanted". And that I had been "selected". Total bullsh*t. She had two children and wanted to share the "Lord's blessings" with the less fortunate. Well, if the "lord's blessings" meant being slapped so hard that I couldn't see anything out of my left eye, losing clumps of hair because she pulled so much of it out, or being covered with bruises from beatings with a belt or a stick, then I guess I was "chosen".

I think that my mother hated me from birth. I was her second child in 11 months and I think she resents the extra work I caused her. Nothing I did was right, she blatantly favored my siblings, and by the time I left home I had the self esteem of a gnat.

But leaving was the best thing that ever happened. Once I was alone, taking care of my daughter I realized that I wasn't the problem - SHE was. Now that she's getting older and I have the only grandkids - she wants her "mommy" role back. We talk, but she isn't a true priority in my life. I love my mother, but I pity her as well, because she will always be miserable. Some people are just like that. Sometimes you just have to let it all go - no matter what you do or say or try - you can never please parents like that. Yearning for their love is not only a waste of time but hurtful and unproductive. Learn to love yourself.

BTW - I don't hate my kids, but sometimes I really, really don't like them! Lol

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Originally Posted by wallabee4

THIS IS FROM A MOM. I am going to assume that at least some of the other posts are from MEN, i.e., NOT MOMS.

First off, I do not have a specific answer as to the sabotage or mean spirited words Angela says came from a mom.

But, I can say this: even MOMS are people. And, oddly enough, I think nearly all of the above posters seemed to forget that.... I THINK YOU NEED TO WALK A FEW STEPS IN A MOM's SHOES TO UNDERSTAND HER AND SEE HER FOR WHAT SHE'S DOING AND LOVE HER ANYWAY.

Let me try to explain. You get pregnant let's say it's joyfully on purpose. You are thrilled, you love the baby even before it's a few cells. Everyone around you is SO HAPPY for you. you enjoy 9 months of this attention from others--special parking spaces included. You feel good taking care of yourself--eating well, taking vitamins, seeing our doctor... because you have the increased importance of taking care of now your baby, too. Then whamo, you give birth (not fun, but we Moms all get thru it somehow) and, like I said to my husband when my 1st was born--now we're parents, now what do we do? Your life as you knew it before baby is suddenly changed. You will never again be just YOU. You will be MOM. --For years, in fact, your child won't even know you HAVE another name... And it begins this way: first everyone comes NOT to see MOM but the BABY. ...

I think Angela and all her adult friends need to take a long hard look at their childhoods, NOTICE the sacrifices--big and small--their Moms have made, and go tell their Moms just how truly thankful they are. or when Mom says, 'so what you're making good grades,' you turn around and say, 'I guess you raised me to be a smart kid, mom.' And then follow it up with noticing something that their MOM has done in life and complimenting it.

So much of what Moms do goes totally unnoticed but is carrried silently within a Mom's heart to her death. Her reward is in heaven. Eeven if YOU didn't notice, I bet God did...

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I'm sorry, but I am a bit amazed at this person's answer. First of all, Angela asked a great question. There are abusive mothers in this world and I think she was referring to that kind of mother, certainly not all mothers.

I believe most of what this person said is how the arrival of her child took the attention away from her. And that there was suddenly a role to play for which there was little gratitude. Well, you shouldn't be in competition with a baby for attention to begin with. And you can't expect children to be grateful on the same level that only adults can. And I do feel for your need to be acknowledged for your efforts as a mother. That's a biggie! But kids can't do that very well.

Children are innocent, they don't ask to be here. If it diminishes you to have a child, that is your problem to work out. Not the child's. And to say everyone forgets all about you once the child is born is one of the most narcissistic statements a person could make.

To say you will never be "you" again is rubbish. You are always you. Maybe you have to play a new role, but it comes with the territory. That your child forgets your name and you are now "Mom" is normal. I's the only way children are capable of relating to you - as mom. So what? If you think you are going to get a comfortable friendship and unending gratitude, forget it. Your child may never be the ideal friend and might not be so grateful at times. You are supposed to figure out who they are and encourage that in them. Not the other way around! And gratitude is modeled. If you want it, show them how to be grateful. If you are looking for thanks, it will come later.

Your children can't be expected to nurture your needs by keeping out of the limelight. It isn't natural. Its weird you are afraid they will take attention from you. How is that possible? They are not conniving to rob you of attention. They are focused on growing up. And besides. It's normal for people to lavish attention on children. In fact, from an anthropological point of view, it's necessary for our race to survive.

I think you are very wounded. And you should take care of those wounds. I am so sorry your mom was hard on you. So was mine. And that leaves people like us with little to work with in some ways. But even when kids are being selfish and demanding and rotton. It's their time to figure out what the world is all about. You had your time as a child. Don't take their childhood from them. Give them the tools to work it out.

One of the hardest things as a mother is that you need time for yourself. And I think you really need some regular time with your friends. Your friends can celebrate the you who isn't "mom". Not your children. It is very difficult to be all day long taking care of children. They have many needs.

I am a mother. I have a child. I knew she would be a pain at times. And that was okay. I kept telling her in many ways how glad I was that she was born. Mainly because I got the opposite message. A message very much like what you wrote. That I was an intrusion. And that I didn't make my mother happy. Telling my daughter that I was so happy she was born was really all I had to give her. I was determined that my child would know she had value in this universe. And apparently it was enough because she really appreciates me now.

I think you are expecting too much adultness from your children. And that you want to be the child and force them to be the adult.

This resentment can turn into many things. Martyrdom, which you note is full of. Cruelty, which a lot of the women posting on this board have endured to the point of terrible difficulty. And then there is the mother who simply has apathy for her children. All of it is borne out of resentment and anger toward children for "taking" something from the mother.

Such things hurt children very badly. Because it's all about the mother's emotional needs. And they want the child to make it better or get lost. It's called Narcissism. The focus is supposed to be on the children. Not you, and I think that is probably a huge issue for you. Getting others to focus on you and having your needs met as a child would. So, you act like a martyr to get that attention anyhow. Don't turn your kids into a resource to feed that. Stop with the "I'm so unappreciated." Focus on giving to them. Teach them how to problem solve, give them encouragement and tell them how important THEY are every day. Show them how to give to others through charity. It develops compassion and compassion inspires gratitude. Then they will be grateful for the charity you show them.

Otherwise they are going to feel like they were raised by wolves - always having to fend for themselves because Mom is unavailable in a real way. And that isn't fair.

Sorry if this was harsh, but I wanted to speak out my truth. I just couldn't subscribe to some of what you said.

SI

wallabee4--

It sounds like you were unappreciated in your journey as a mother. That said, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what those of us went through who were abused and truly hated by our mothers.

Sure, you may get tired and stressed, but does it ever justify threatening your child with a knife? I sure don't ever do that to my three girls, but my mother certainly did it to me.

I know that you get tired of wiping butts and passing out pieces of your own snack to the little moochers behind you in the car, but have you ever hit one of them so hard that it left a bruise that covered the entire left side of her face? My mother sure did that to me. Plus, she made me tell people I fell on the trampoline, or else she would kill me.

I admit that I do get offended when people don't like to acknowledge that mothers can be abusive to their children. But what really gets to me is the idea that "whatever she does, she does it because of her ungrateful children". It's this myth of unblemished mothering perfection that thrives on the notion of sacrifice and the lack of personal fulfillment that makes people look the other way when they see or hear of a child being abused. "Mama was a good lady, and if she beat us, it was because we had it comin'". Our culture thrives on mother-worship, even in these days where a woman drowns her five children. We want to blame something. A condition. Duress. No one wants to admit that women, mothers, can be just as violent as men.

Walking a mile my mother's shoes wouldn't accomplish anything. There is no understanding or compassion for a person like her or any of the mothers of the people on this post who mistreated their children.

Of course there is a difference when you're talking about moms who may yell at their kids from having a bad day, but they make up for it when they realize that what they did was wrong. But my mother and the mothers of the other posters didn't do that. They used us as their "punching bags" as abusers often do. They pick one child, usually, as their object of torture. And they often leave the other children alone. It's the sweet, soft-tempered child that the evil parent exploits and ruins psychologically.

So regardless of what your own personal experience was with your own mother or with being a mother yourself, your story is nothing like what we have endured. I'm sorry that you have felt that people have ignored you once you have given birth, but if you expected to be the center of attention in life after giving birth, or at any other time, then you may have some serious personality issues that need to be addressed in psychotherapy. And I don't mean this in a rude or nasty way.

I wish you the best.

~I have been lucky enough to have a supportive, wonderful mother. Up until a few months ago, I took this for granted, that is until I saw firsthand how my boyfriends mother treats him.
~He is an amazing father of two, has both of his children, works and goes to school. His mother is a control freak and has taken over the life of his children while he was living there so she could "help" him out while he finishes school.
~ She tells his children that daddy is an , a troublemaker and basically nothing good. I have never heard her say anything nice about him, except once, she said he took good care of his toys when he was a boy. She claims all he cares about is his "stupid school".
~ When she discovered how serious we were, and that we were planning to get a home together with the children, she filed for custody of his children. When we left with the kids, she got a temporary order of custody, siting that he was a drug dealer and that she "fears for the lives of her grandchildren." This is a blatant lie and she knows that. She did it because she hates not having control of him and his children. The police and herself took them from my home kicking and screaming.
~ For Twenty days now, he has only been allowed supervised visitation (by her) and I have not seen the children at all in this time, as she told the judge that she does not want me at her house. This is COURT ORDERED! We go back on Tuesday of this week, hopefully we will come home with the children.
~ I do not know why she is this way except that she is psycologically unstable and a control freak. She has been this way forever he claims, and after several years of counseling, he is the man I love today. I do feel bad for him.
~ My family is now his surrogate family, they have not gotten to see the children either, they have gotten quite attatched. My family is helping us out, and are in our corner every step of the way.
~ It IS TRUE,mothers can genuinely hate their children. I have seen it first hand with this unstable woman.

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Originally Posted by Athenamia

~I have been lucky enough to have a supportive, wonderful mother. Up until a few months ago, I took this for granted, that is until I saw firsthand how my boyfriends mother treats him.
~He is an amazing father of two, has both of his children, works and goes to school. His mother is a control freak and has taken over the life of his children while he was living there so she could "help" him out while he finishes school.
~ She tells his children that daddy is an , a troublemaker and basically nothing good. I have never heard her say anything nice about him, except once, she said he took good care of his toys when he was a boy. She claims all he cares about is his "stupid school".
~ When she discovered how serious we were, and that we were planning to get a home together with the children, she filed for custody of his children. When we left with the kids, she got a temporary order of custody, siting that he was a drug dealer and that she "fears for the lives of her grandchildren." This is a blatant lie and she knows that. She did it because she hates not having control of him and his children. The police and herself took them from my home kicking and screaming.
~ For Twenty days now, he has only been allowed supervised visitation (by her) and I have not seen the children at all in this time, as she told the judge that she does not want me at her house. This is COURT ORDERED!! We go back on Tuesday of this week, hopefully we will come home with the children.
~ I do not know why she is this way except that she is psycologically unstable and a control freak. She has been this way forever he claims, and after several years of counseling, he is the man I love today. I do feel bad for him.
~ My family is now his surrogate family, they have not gotten to see the children either, they have gotten quite attatched. My family is helping us out, and are in our corner every step of the way.
~ It IS TRUE,mothers can genuinely hate their children. I have seen it first hand with this unstable woman.

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Does he have an attorney? How could she prove he was a drug dealer? How would a judge sign an order granting custody with no proof? Does she have friends who work in Social Services? Is there something in your past that she has a problem with?

She does sound toxic. Not only does she hate him, but it sounds like she hates YOU too.

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Originally Posted by Angela_A

Inputs from mothers please...

I know this is a sensitive topic but as an adult child and chatting with friends, I have found this to be a common phenomenon. Any thoughts would be appreciated to relieve this pain.

Mothers seem to be (and are) destroying their children's life on purpose. First subconsciously then as years go by, they would do it on purpose.

For example, they would frown upon the children's success by saying things like... so what if you are gettting good mark at school... so what if you are earning a living yourself.... And they have actions to go along with their words such as making noise when you study or phoneing your workplace to disturb you.

Thoughts please.

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Please read this... does she worry about you? Does she cook for you? Does she care for you if you are sick? Does she try to talk with you? Is she there? Does she get mad? Does she push you? These, to me are all signs of love, they just don't feel that way to kids or young adults. Give life time to show you how she loves you. If she's abusive physically or verbally be-littles you, then by all means pull away. But if she's trying to get your attention about some other issues, listen! You may not see it now, but she's probably right on the money with what she's trying to get you to listen to.

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Originally Posted by mldubose

Does he have an attorney? How could she prove he was a drug dealer? How would a judge sign an order granting custody with no proof? Does she have friends who work in Social Services? Is there something in your past that she has a problem with?

She does sound toxic. Not only does she hate him, but it sounds like she hates YOU too.

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~ I donnot know why this woman continues to have "temporary custody" of the children. We went to court today and got "unsupervised overnight visits" with the children. Her attorney backed out on her, today was the last appearance for the attorney.
~ We have gotten a three bedroom apartment for us and the children, law guardian approved, but alas, they are still with her. Yes, she does hate me, his 4 year old daughter told me so.
~ The judge assumed that her lawyer wouldn't push such terrible allegations unles they were true, at least that's his explanation about that. He seems like a whack job to me.
~ We do have an attorney, he is a good one so it seems, a former CPS law guardian. We also have about 15 statements from third party sources, both character references for him and her.
~ She cannot prove he is a drug dealer, because he isn't a drug dealer. We got a statement from my neighbors saying there isn't heavy traffic in and out of my home, but other than that I don't know how to prove he isn't a drug dealer. The law guardian dosen't believe it anyway.
~ They are combining the two children's cases, they were not combined in the first place I guess because there are two separate mothers maybe? One mother has not been in her sons life, has not seen him in 7 years because she cannot deal with the grandmother. She fears that the grandmother will try to take her 3 boys away, as she has threatened such. She is right by our side in this matter, and looking forward to meeting her son. He has asked about her several times, but his grandmother has nothing nice to say about her ("your mommy does drugs" is not a nice thing to say to any 8 year old.) The other mother lives 1500 miles away, is nowhere to be found, and wants noting to do with her daughter. She refuses to give an actual address or send a statement or anything. My guess is because there is a warrant out for contempt of court on her for not paying child support. My boyfriend has signed statements saying she no longer has to pay child support, it is back support charged by the state ofFlorida that she is in trouble for. Ironically they both have the same name, Randi.
~ Today we are taking as a win though. I get to see the kids finally, after 20 long days, it will be 23 by the time I accually see them. I can picture the look on his daughters face when she sees me, that gets me through.
~ The grandmother is dealing with abandonment and control issues no doubt. She wants my boyfriend to move back to her home (so she can control him again I assume) but he is resisting. December 17th is the next date, she is dragging this on as long as she can... but hopefully we get them back permanently at that time. This is their father and they are his life. Wish us luck!

Athenamia-

So sorry this is happening.

I hope I didn't sound like I was saying your boyfriend was a drug dealer. I was just wondering how she would be able to make accusations and have them acted on. Any other court system would have to make her prove it. It sounds like you are in an area that doesn't function properly in the area of the civil court system.

She sounds like a total nutcase. I wonder if it worked out that you could make accusations against her that she is insane. You know, actually tell the truth to the judge that she is doing whatever she can to keep her son from raising his children, and that she's been under psychiatric care (therapy) in the past. You never know.

Ask your boyfriend to write down all of the horrible things she has said to him and the children. And you do the same if you can. Especially comments that she has said about you to the children. These are psychologically damaging to the children. Especially when she tries to win the children's loyalty. The fact that she is badmouthing a person the children have bonded with should look bad to the judge. Try to put a date to the comments if you can. That will show that she does not have the "best interests of the children" in mind. And that is what the court is supposed to be looking out for. Try to record phone calls and messages if you can. Take notes of your conversations.

And for goodness sakes, you guys have to act like complete angels. Don't move in with him. Don't let her ever prove that you spend the night there. The custodial parent is not legally supposed to sleep with anyone he/she isn't married to when there are children present in the home. Don't smoke or drink around the kids (or let anyone see you do it). Don't go to clubs/bars. Act like a nun and tell him to act like a priest. I know it sounds severe, but it will help, I promise. Always make sure they are in car seats or booster seats until they are 80 pounds. Feed them nutritious food (I'm sure you do these things anyway).

That way if she doesn't do any of those things, you can get her for endangering their safety and health). She's already endangering their psychological health. I'm surprised there hasn't been a psych evaluation for everyone yet. What kind of court system is this?

Good luck.

Thanks... We are working on it. I do have documentation dates and times even of her manic outbursts... Not sure they are being put to proper use by the court though.