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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

I'm trying the counseling thing again, but the thing is I can't afford a couselor but maybe I could stand to learn some more. Maybe it will help me learn to deal with her better. Idk. I'll keep you posted.

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Hi, I usually do not give advice to anyone about personal situations because I know from my own past experience that most outside help really had to come from one's own inside gut feeling. Some times the gut feeling was reactive more than well thought through in my own mind. I increasingly receded away from counselors or clergy help because it did not help the inner anxiety of self hopelessness.
The only way I could function was by self distraction into focusing on applying what I did best and that was technical work. I literally buried the mind into keeping busy working to avoid solving my own issues. I covered up mental pain and not being successful with my family affairs.
I got lucky though. I met someone who saw what I was doing to myself and they forced me into getting back to reality. The lady was a reformed hooker (the state had taken away her child) prior to meeting me and she told me what she saw and introduced me to the metaphysical world of looking into myself. She introduced me to a new environment of people who cared and shared through the view of what the mind can do in affirmations of positive thought.
You are still searching for that group I feel. At least you are looking and persisting to find answers. I am not sure if you have ever been involved in metaphysical teachings of a universal mind as is shared in UNITY churches that do not profess good and bad but profess mental belief in one's own strength as being a part of God in this Universe. Only the mind will provide solutions through sharing in the same energy networking to help one another.

I can list many West Coast non-sectarian church organizations that will help you with counseling and getting your daughters involved in group interests and activities that will give them a different perspective of being part of a safe haven that sees them as special and wanted with unabated love. This will help bring you and your daughter together more than anything else. Do not send her to a boot camp or any detention type environment. It will devastate her more. I know, because it happened to me when I was just 4 years old. So I know what I am telling you from first hand experience.
I hope I can make better sense later on if I get a chance to say more. I really see you as a real good person that has real worth but just has not found a loving support family group yet.
Sincerely, nmwirez

I'm no expert but I want to tell you to hang in there.My friends was a married mom of two with one on the way when he abusive husband came home cracked out and help her with a knife to her throat in front of their oldest daughter. He chased the child into the bathroom and her mom called the police. My friend is now away from this man for about 5 years and is now re-married to a great formerly single-dad. Her oldest daughter still has behavioural issues related to the time spent in her father's home. The younger daughter still loves their father. Dex never thought that the older was his although Terry never cheated on him. However, the second daughter he "knew" was his so she was never beaten up or hurt by him. Each child acts out in their own ways and unfortunately often on each other when the topic of their father arises. Things are getting better though as the time and counselling goes on. Have you researched child mental, physical and sexual abuse? Look into it and see if the aftereffects are similar to your daughter's. Any man who would punish a boy by hitting his penis would likely think nothing about helping himself to a female child. Your earlier description about when the girl talks to you about her time with him and then quiets down sound, to me, like her mind is repressing memories about that time that she's not mentallly or emotionally equipped to deal with. Please hang in there with the counselling. See if there are any kids therapy groups in your area. Find out about abuse support groups that might have info about getting help in paying for the counselling. Please hang in there, Nymphetamine.

P.S. There is nothing wrong with your screen name. I think it's cool. You are probably about my age. I see it as a reflection of a flirty, fun-loving personality; not a drug-addicted tramp. LOL. Hang in there. I'm rooting for you!

I had a little talk with my seven year old today since I have been trying to find out what is going on with her. When I ask her why she misbehaves she normally shrugs her shoulders. This time I asked her what she was trying to get from it. She told me that she wants to go live with her Nana and Papa who happen to be the grandparents of my ex. She thinks that if she acts up enough that I won't want her anymore and will send her to her great grandparents. Nana and Papa don't have rules at their house. They don't believe in discipline. Mom makes rules. Mom is not cool. Not cool at all. :(

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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

I had a little talk with my seven year old today since I have been trying to find out what is going on with her. When I ask her why she misbehaves she normally shrugs her shoulders. This time I asked her what she was trying to get from it. She told me that she wants to go live with her Nana and Papa who happen to be the grandparents of my ex. She thinks that if she acts up enough that I won't want her anymore and will send her to her great grandparents. Nana and Papa don't have rules at their house. They don't believe in discipline. Mom makes rules. Mom is not cool. Not cool at all. :(

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Reasoning with a young one takes a third party. Mom-on-daughter is not a win situation. Find out who she feels is that third person she looks up to in school. This is what happened to my daughter of 12. She ran away from home and stayed with her boyfriends mom who did not have concerns over my baby girl. It tore my heart out that no one cared to tell me what was going on until my son called.
It was not easy from two states away to find her and talk with her for 5 hours on the phone. I found out from her who was 'cool' and it turned out to be a teacher/counselor. I contacted him and he got things together as the third person who really settled a lot of problems between her and mom. Maybe this is possible for you. Nm

At least now you have an idea what goes on in her head and have a starting point for some dialog. Good sign that she accepts you and is letting you into her world and feelings. I can understand her closenesss to her dads parents. How is her behavior at school?

Man, I keep reading this stuff and can't believe you are dealing with a 7 year old. (I have a 6 and half year old and can't imagine this kind of behavior.)

When your daughter told you she wanted to live somewhere else, that said to me she is testing you. She is going to push and push to see if you will leave her. That has happened to her already. So, before she can put her trust in you, she is going to test you. She is expecting you to just give up on her. So DON'T! This child sounds like she is so injured and probably needs more positive reinforcement than you can imagine. I don't think you can hug her or tell her you love her too much. I don't know if you do this now, but have you tried Mom and daughter days out? I know it sounds trivial, but having that one on one time could help.
Also, stay consistent. She probably hasn't had a lot of that in the past, that is why she is expecting you to leave her.
Just know that she can't process what is going on in her head - she just isn't old enough to understand. You have the facts and CAN process it and it is probably hard for you to grasp. She is a lost little girl and you have to be her life line.
There are all kinds of resources out there that you can take advantage of - sometimes you just have to know where to look. Utilize your church, school, outreach programs - anything. Get her involved with girl scouts or whatever - something constructive.

Good Luck to you and I will put you in my prayers.

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Originally Posted by talaniman

At least now you have an idea what goes on in her head and have a starting point for some dialog. Good sign that she accepts you and is letting you into her world and feelings. I can understand her closenesss to her dads parents. How is her behavior at school?

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Her behavior in school isn't good either. I've gotten many phone calls from her teacher about disrupting the class, trying to kiss a boy after he asked her to stop, and being in the bathroom putting on make up (I have no idea where she gets the make up from, because I don't give her any) when she should be in class. Recently though I have been told that her behavior there has improved some. The school sent people from social serivices to my house before accusing me of all sorts of things because of her behavior, but after I put them in contact with the social service in South Carolina and the social worker there explained the situation and told them to back off, they did.

I've seen kids like this... you
Really need to stop it before its wayyyy to late :(

nymphetamine,

Your daughter has potential and I believe if she is given a challenge she will put her heart into whatever she attempts. Try soccer sports where she can kick @zz. Give her a chance, get her on a club soccer team where they will test her to see if she is quick, smart and able to run with the best. This is where she will be able to excel. She has the attitude to interact and desire to be noticed!

Soccer teams are sponsored and have great instruction on the psychology of faking out the opponent, which she would really enjoy. Rod Stewart did and look how he ended up.

Free counseling, camaraderie, and interacting with mature kids at her level can change her around quickly. No mind manipulation, just great coaching. She will see what it takes to compete to win. You can be a soccer mom and get into a great group of people who will not jerk you around. Try it! Forget the boot camp. Good luck.

Hang in with the hugs, it's a process that won't be solved over night. Keep talking to her, and the school counselors. Trying things to see what her likes and dislikes are as far as fun, sounds good also.

It doesn't take much for them to act out at school. My husband and I were having some troubles - when we went to a p/t conference, we were told that our daughter was refusing to do some of her work. She would just say she wasn't going to do it and would dig in her heels. That just isn't her. We saw it as a way of taking some sort of control in her life - where ever she could find it - because she couldn't fix Mommy and Daddy. And boy, did she try. Things are normal here now and so is she.
I would imagine your daughter feels like she has no control over anything and at school she can try to get her way no matter the consequences.
If she is 7 now and you have had her back with you for 2 years - she was probably in the middle of a nightmare in those very important years, where they are sponges and soak up everything! There is no telling what she has endured or what she has witnessed. And if that is all she was exposed to, that is all she knows. She just needs time to heal. She needs lost of positive reinforcement and maybe a project. Like sports or dancing or something that she can put herself into and be good at.
I don't know if you have already said this, but have you thought about counseling for you? You have also been through a lot and now dealing with a hurting child - are you armed with the tools you need to help her?
I know when my daughter and I have bad days together - it is frustrating and I sometimes lose my temper and need to walk away. And whatever I maybe dealing with is nothing in comparison to what you are dealing with.
I am keeping you in my prayers.

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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

I've had it.....I don't know what else to do.

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nymphetamine,

I did not mean to push the soccer camp button, I am just saying, get her active into a good environment for her interest and you will follow. If you are still in SC state, some of the greatest sport clubs are there for her. (i.e. Hilton Head Tennis for youth.) She is at an age perfect for learning any kind of skill that will put her first in line as she gets older for scholarships to the college of choice. She will be that good if she starts now. Talk to any woman's college sports coach and they can even help. You are the one to show the way, your baby does not know these things and needs you to send her on an early path. Her life depends on it.

GoGirlGo! helps advance girls lives through sports. They supply the motivation and are grant funded to help. The mentors are woman in professional sports.

I was having a problem similar to yours with my son when he was that age. I TOOK HIM TO JAIL. When I got there I made him wait in the car (of course without the keys) while I went on the inside to see "if they took in his age" and told the deputy that I had an out of control kid that needed to be put in his place before they ended up with him in a few years. They scared the crap out of him!! He was arrested, fingerprinted, the whole 9. I left him there for about an hour. Lets just say that after that experience his attitude changed.

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Originally Posted by millec

I was having a problem similar to yours with my son when he was that age. I TOOK HIM TO JAIL. When i got there i made him wait in the car (of course without the keys) while i went on the inside to see "if they took in his age" and told the deputy that I had an out of control kid that needed to be put in his place before they ended up with him in a few years. They scared the crap out of him!!! He was arrested, fingerprinted, the whole 9. I left him there for about an hour. Lets just say that after that experience his attitude changed.

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millec,

In the 'boys' school where I came from, that would make your son a real hero. In nymphetamine's situation, it would cause more harm than good to a little girl. Girls are emotionally structured differently and would distance her from mom because she was turned in.

It is good that your case worked out to the good. Not many do. Nm

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Originally Posted by nmwirez

millec,

In the 'boys' school where I came from, that would make your son a real hero. In nymphetamine's situation, it would cause more harm than good to a little girl. Girls are emotionally structured differently and would distance her from mom because she was turned in.

It is good that your case worked out to the good. Not many do. nm

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Well clearly nothing else has helped and she already seems to be distanced from her mom. Based on what nymphetamine has stated, she has tried everything possible to help her daughter. If spending a couple of hours in a jail atmosphere will do emotional damage then maybe it will do enough to make her not want to spend 10 years there and based on what mom has stated that's where she is headed. I have a female cousin that grew up acting this way, her mom tried different things before she finally lost hope and gave up. She is now serving a 10-15 year sentence because she & her friend thought it would be fun to rob a convience store, the robbery didn't go as "easily" as they thought it would and they ended up with additional assault & battery charges as well. Being only 15 she was trialed as an adult because of the battery done to the store clerk. So therefore I would rather scare the hell out of my 7 year old now then to spend my sundays at jail visitation later on. Clearly crime has no gender so therefore neither should punishment. Should she go through life doing things thinking "Oh well I wont get in too much trouble because i'm a little girl that might get emotional"? I hate to keep talking about her ending up in jail but that's all boot camp is, jail for people that are too young for the real deal.

Before I took a step like this, I would consult the child's counselor. See if this form of "tough love" would help or hender her. I can not imagine doing this to my daughter, but my daughter isn't on this road. This little girl is in such a bad place.
This could go either way, do a world of good or it could just as easily set her back and do more damage. I think this kid is on the edge and you have to be extremely careful not to push her off the cliff.

I am glad that this worked for you, millec. Parenting is such a hard job. You never truly know that you are doing the right thing. You just hope for the best and do your best.

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Originally Posted by millec

Based on what nymphetamine has stated, she has tried everything possible to help her daughter. I hate to keep talking about her ending up in jail but thats all boot camp is, jail for people that are too young for the real deal.

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Let's hope that she tries sports camp first. Nm:)

Is it possible there was physical abuse or emotional neglect occurring while she was with her dad? If so, this behavior could be a response to emotional pain. I know you have repeatedly stated that you tried therapy, but counseling is not a quick fix. It could take years. I think you need to stick with it longer. She has had a lot of turmoil in her young life, being moved around by dad and social services and then to you. Stealing things constantly at such a young age leads me to think she doesn't feel secure, like everything around her might just up and vanish tomorrow, so she feels the need to take little pieces so she won't lose it all again. As far as teasing her little sister, I know what that is like. My daughter can be horrible to her little brother, to the point where I can't see why he would want to try to play with her, but that's the way kids are. I hope you find the solution, and I hope my opinion is helpful.

I talked with my daughter's teacher on the phone today. She says that the behavior at school has improved a lot. Which I already knew because she had been putting good notes in her agenda. The behavior at home has also improved a bit. She seems to understand that misbehaving is not going to get her sent to the great grandparents house. Some things still need to be worked on like the severe lack of honesty. The thing is that now she is lying to try and impress me. Its not as if I don't praise her when she does good or encourage her so I don't know why this recent change. Well at least there is improvement happening.

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Originally Posted by nymphetamine

i talked with my daughter's teacher on the phone today. she says that the behavior at school has improved a lot. which i already knew because she had been putting good notes in her agenda. the behavior at home has also improved a bit. she seems to understand that misbehaving is not going to get her sent to the great grandparents house. some things still need to be worked on like the severe lack of honesty. the thing is that now she is lying to try and impress me. its not as if i don't praise her when she does good or encourage her so i don't know why this recent change. well at least there is improvement happening.

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Sounds like things are going a lot better and that your daughter is picking up on your positivness. The lying depends on what is being said for your benefit as you say. This will taper off when she sees your honesty with her is real and she will become more comfortable without having to make up impressive images. Everything takes time to make a good wine, pardon the cliche, but keep up the good vibes. nm:)