Ask Me Help Desk - Unruly 9 year old, what to do?

On super nanny, it looked like it was just their den or office that they'd put a comfy couch into. The only problem I see with that particular kind of room is if there's a computer there she'd likely end up there instead of reflecting.
Resenting her own mother and acting out because of it might make sense. Have you tried talking to her about her own mother?

No, I haven't. Her father has. I don't feel that that's my place, unless she comes to me with it directly.

Have had a class room full of 9 year olds for the last 7 years and one thing that worked well for the majority when behavior issues came up was to give them a choice, when possible, when they didn't want to do something.

For example with homework: Sarah, I see you have quite a bit of math homework to get done today. You can do it after you have a snack and then go play or you can play for half an hour and then you'll have to come in and do the homework at that time. If she works on the homework first, let her know she was showing responsibility by making that choice. If she decides to play and then grumbles about having to come in to do homework (which is quite likely what will happen) remind her that she had a choice and that maybe she will make a different one next time. No arguing, no discussion... just matter of fact. Acknowledge her displeasure, but state again how she can make a different choice next time that she might like better.

In regard to homework... third graders still need supervision or at least frequent checks that they are actually doing the work, that they are understanding the work, and that they are doing quality work. Now is the time to lay the ground for good study habits and it is important to have that parental support and guidance. You or dad could sit at the table and read a book while she works, balance your checkbook, pay bills, write a letter, whatever, but be there or at least check on her frequently. Unplug the TV if need be... disconnect the cable... set parent controls if possible and block all the channels she might watch until you reset it. If possible, set up an area for homework without distractions. Maybe allow some music as some people do actually perform better with some background noise, but television if often too distracting and just prolongs the work. Some kids do well with a timer being set... maybe broken into small increments. Time management is often a learned concept... even for many adults!

With her room, show her ways to manage the cleaning and getting organzied. Does she have a hamper for dirty clothes? Does she have a place for books? Games/toys? Show her how to do a section at a time if it seems overwhelming. Then once it is all sorted, supervise while she picks up the odd items before bedtime each night. Do this for several weeks so that it can become habit for her and then you won't need to supervise... or at least not as much... :)

If grounding doesn't work for her you'll have to find out what does. For some kids being grounded is horrible and to be avoided at all costs... other kids could care less, they aren't really bothered by it, so it becomes meaningless. You need to find what is important to her.

It will take a good deal of effort on your part and on her dad's part to get things on track, but it will pay off for all of you in the long run.

Do you and her father follow through on dicsipline or do you cave? Consistency is a must when dealing with children.

I know she is young, but remmeber that some girls DO start pms this young. Certanly not all, not even half, but it DOES happen. Sit down with her, on a day that is NOT going hectic, on a GOOD day when you are getting along (and Don't include her father, daddys don't need to hear about the period issues and pms and being a 'woman' from his daughter, you can tell him about it later, I'm not saying keep him out of the loop, but it would only embarrass her to talk about it in front of him)

Talk to her about how she is feeling, and if her emotions feel out of control. Girls who start going through pms early (pms in generall not JUST their periods) have it harder because they are younger and can't cope with it as well as an older girl, and even the older girls have issues :)

Good luck hon *hugs*

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoulaLC

Have had a class room full of 9 year olds for the last 7 years and one thing that worked well for the majority when behavior issues came up was to give them a choice, when possible, when they didn't want to do something.

For example with homework: Sarah, I see you have quite a bit of math homework to get done today. You can do it after you have a snack and then go play or you can play for half an hour and then you'll have to come in and do the homework at that time. If she works on the homework first, let her know she was showing responsibility by making that choice. If she decides to play and then grumbles about having to come in to do homework (which is quite likely what will happen) remind her that she had a choice and that maybe she will make a different one next time. No arguing, no discussion....just matter of fact. Acknowledge her displeasure, but state again how she can make a different choice next time that she might like better. We've been doing this, and it's really working great as far as her behavior is concerned. She still does those tell-tell 9-year-old things though.

In regard to homework....third graders still need supervision or at least frequent checks that they are actually doing the work, that they are understanding the work, and that they are doing quality work. Now is the time to lay the ground for good study habits and it is important to have that parental support and guidance. You or dad could sit at the table and read a book while she works, balance your checkbook, pay bills, write a letter, whatever, but be there or at least check on her frequently. Unplug the TV if need be...disconnect the cable...set parent controls if possible and block all the channels she might watch until you reset it. If possible, set up an area for homework without distractions. Maybe allow some music as some people do actually perform better with some background noise, but television if often too distracting and just prolongs the work. Some kids do well with a timer being set....maybe broken into small increments. Time management is often a learned concept....even for many adults!! Homework isn't an issue, like I said she is very advanced in school and has very good study habits. She really does enjoy the music while she does homework. This was a one time event. She didn't want to do the project because she failed to do her research at school, and didn't know what to do. So she fiddled around until we realized what the issue was. Regardless, that issue is resolved. And as far as the TV goes, she knows to plug the tv back in and learned how to disable the parental control. So, that does us no good. LOL. Sometimes I think our problem is that she's smarrter than us.

With her room, show her ways to manage the cleaning and getting organzied. Does she have a hamper for dirty clothes? Does she have a place for books? Games/toys? Show her how to do a section at a time if it seems overwhelming. Then once it is all sorted, supervise while she picks up the odd items before bedtime each night. Do this for several weeks so that it can become habit for her and then you won't need to supervise...or at least not as much....:) Hamper for dirty clothes-yes, that's where she hides the clean clothes that she doesn't feel like putting away. Place for books--yes, she has a bookshelf plus the one in the living room. Games and toys go in the hall closet. We actually did a spring cleaning on her room the day before yesterday and got it all organized and put together! Hope it helps!

If grounding doesn't work for her you'll have to find out what does. For some kids being grounded is horrible and to be avoided at all costs....other kids could care less, they aren't really bothered by it, so it becomes meaningless. You need to find what is important to her. We've done that. Not going to her Grandmother's and not hanging out with her friends or going to a babysitter when we go camping and hiking. STILL, she ate the tops of all four muffins yesterday for breakfast instead of eating one muffin. And then when confronted, she lied about it. I even constructed the question so that her first choice was to tell the truth. I said, "What did you have for breakfast? Keep in mind I already know the answer, so there's no point in lying. You won't be able to visit your granny this weekend if you lie." "I ate an apple." Then when I proved to her that I knew she ate the muffin tops, she started crying and saying, "I miss my Grandma, this isn't fair." I explained to her it was very fair, she continues to lie and this is the last one on top of the pile. I warned her not to lie before she did. And she did it anyways. What are we doing wrong here?

It will take a good deal of effort on your part and on her dad's part to get things on track, but it will pay off for all of you in the long run. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

...

Play the grandma card... tell her you understand that she misses her grandmother, and you would very much like for her to get to visit, but she knew the consequences, she chose not to be truthful thinking it would keep her out of trouble, but that obviously didn't work so now she misses out this time and that is how it is going to stand. Tell her that next time you ask her a question, you expect her to be honest and that way her consequences will be positive ones. Acknowledge that you understand her desire not to get into trouble so she decides not to be honest, but point out that it will only result in missing out on things she wants to do. Yes, she may still get into trouble if she makes poor choices in what she does, but the consequences won't be of the same level... and, you don't have to tell her this, but depending on the issue at hand, you may once in awhile let her off the hook simply because she made a good decision about being honest and showing responsibility.

You might even sit her down one night and discuss what her thoughts are regarding your actions when she isn't honest. Let her know it is your job as a "parent" or adult in charge, to be sure she knows how to make good choices and how to be responsible for her actions. What does she believe the consequences should be? If reasonable, let her have a stake it what the results of her behavior choices should be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoulaLC

Play the grandma card.....tell her you understand that she misses her grandmother, and you would very much like for her to get to visit, but she knew the consequences, she chose not to be truthful thinking it would keep her out of trouble, but that obviously didn't work so now she misses out this time and that is how it is going to stand. Tell her that next time you ask her a question, you expect her to be honest and that way her consequences will be positive ones. Acknowledge that you understand her desire not to get into trouble so she decides not to be honest, but point out that it will only result in missing out on things she wants to do. Yes, she may still get into trouble if she makes poor choices in what she does, but the consequences won't be of the same level....and, you don't have to tell her this, but depending on the issue at hand, you may once in awhile let her off the hook simply because she made a good decision about being honest and showing responsibility.

You might even sit her down one night and discuss what her thoughts are regarding your actions when she isn't honest. Let her know it is your job as a "parent" or adult in charge, to be sure she knows how to make good choices and how to be responsible for her actions. What does she believe the consequences should be? If reasonable, let her have a stake it what the results of her behavior choices should be.

We've had that discussion. Every single time. We are playing the G-ma card at this point, because that is the thing that she is most excited about. This will be her third weekend in a row that she won't be able to spend with her G-ma because of her lying.

Hopefully it will sink in before too long... she may just be testing your resolve. Stay consistent... keep it all matter of fact, no arguing but it is not open for discussion either. Continue to remind her of the expectations and the benefits that go along with giving some consideration to her response before she gives it... as well as the results of not being honest. Try and catch any small incidents that you can where she makes good choices... in any area, and build her up. Being helpful by setting the table... showing responsibility by feeding the dog... coming home on time... speaking nicely to someone... whatever you can find.

We do that. Feeding the dog is a CHORE though, so she doesn't get extra incentives for that, it's expected.

But I see the point, and that's a good idea.

Good luck... it can be a rough age at times!

My husband's daughters from a previous marriage were (and to some extent still are) absolute monsters.

Something that really worked for us though, when they were about 9 or 10 was the Star System. This was drawn up on a big sheet of cardboard with columns and put near the fridge with stick on stars (gold, silver, etc)

We had them both think up a realistic list of things that they would like over a few months and then list the behaviors that would grant them the things they wanted, and the number of stars involved.

For example, say they wanted to go to the movies or sleep over with a friend. They would have to earn, say 10 gold stars. The behaviors that would earn them these stars might be - cleaning room, being polite, helping with dinner, not fighting and being truthful. Any time these actions were not done no star would be allocated, of if there were stars allocated and the behavior was bad, they would lose a star, and there would be no discussion about it.

At the end of each month, if a certain number of predetermined stars were achieved, they would get a surprise - say $10, or a toy, or a magazine.

I'm sure that you can find a better explanation of this on the internet, but we found it did work, because it rewarded positive behavior rather than focusing on the negative.

I might add, that it worked well for about 6 months and we knew the star strategy was coming to an end when they started to 'renegotiate' everything. It did shift the bad behavior to a tolerable level though!

Handipoints.com is an electronically site monitor version of the star system... and it's a wonderful tool for 7-10 year olds. They also earn clothing, furniture, and various other things for their charaters and can play their characters in a virtual world, safe for their age group. They can earn points and lost points accordingly and they cash in their points from everything from toys, sleep overs, making cookies with Mom to vacations. Points necessary valued by the parents. Everything is monitored and adjusted by the parents. It's a great tool for reinforcing positive behaviors. The site and all it's uses are free for the chore and/or behavior charts are free.

Handipoints - Print Chore Charts Free | Kids Allowances | Kids Virtual World

My son is allowed on the computer, but my daughter is not. You don't have to do the online Virtual World, although it is a child friendly zone and I have supervised my younger daughter on some occasional use of it.

You can just use the site to monitor points with the child, once a week. I use Excel Chore Charts I created based on the website with them working the same point goals, the website just really helps track their earned points and their spent points.

Sorry to jump in now but I think one important issue has been overlooked.

The child is 9.

She has NO relationship with her mother by her mother's choice.

She lived with her grandmother until her father took custody of her.

Her father has had full custody of her for the past 5 years.

She now lives with her father and you.

Okay - now I guess this situation 'seems' normal in today's society because so many kids do have parents that are not married/no longer married. An adult can understand these circumstances and deal with them much better on an emotional level than a child can.

The kid is acting out. She is sending you and Dad a very clear message that she's not dealing with her life very well and she has some big issues that need to be resolved. Unfortunately - kids aren't very good at expressing exactly what they want or need when it comes to emotional confusion - it often comes out as bad behavior.

I'd suggest you back off a little bit and start TALKING to her. At nine years old - you'd be surprised at what a kid see and how they perceive things. Have you ever thought that maybe she's becoming attached to you and she has a fear that you are going to be separated from her just like the other women in her life? Have you ever thought that she's doing these things to see how far she can push you before she 'proves' that you're going to go away too?

She's at a really crucial age right now. Not quite a little kid but not as independent as a teenager. She needs a 'mommy' but she isn't a baby anymore either.

If you are serious enough with her father that you plan on being there permanently - then make sure she knows that and make sure she knows you are there for her too.

Don't harp on her or lecture her or tell her how you 'wish' she'd be. Tell her how much you admire all of the good things about her and the things she does well - encourage those good behaviors and talents. Ask her how she feels about things - ask her what she thinks - she needs to know she's included and she's important.

Do these things while teaching her the importance of honesty, responsibility and accountability and you will see a change in her.

BTW- why can't she use scissors? She's 9 - not 2. If you treat her like a baby - you can't expect her to act like a 9 year old. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by robynhgl

I'd suggest you back off a little bit and start TALKING to her. At nine years old - you'd be surprised at what a kid see and how they perceive things. Have you ever thought that maybe she's becoming attached to you and she has a fear that you are going to be separated from her just like the other women in her life? Have you ever thought that she's doing these things to see how far she can push you before she 'proves' that you're going to go away too?

She's at a really crucial age right now. Not quite a little kid but not as independent as a teenager. She needs a 'mommy' but she isn't a baby anymore either.

If you are serious enough with her father that you plan on being there permanently - then make sure she knows that and make sure she knows you are there for her too.

No, I never thought of that... thank you for that insight, I will take that into consideration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by robynhgl

BTW- why can't she use scissors? She's 9 - not 2. If you treat her like a baby - you can't expect her to act like a 9 year old. ;)

She can't use scissors WITHOUT supervision. Because she cuts her hair every time she does. If she wants to act like a 2 year old, she'll be treated like one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChihuahuaMomma

She can't use scissors WITHOUT supervision. Because she cuts her hair every time she does. If she wants to act like a 2 year old, she'll be treated like one.

Is she cutting it to make it shorter because she wants shorter hair - or is she doing it as a threat - like it's going to make you look like a dork? Apparently she has not thought out the consequences - she cuts HER hair - SHE looks like the dork and SHE has to deal with it. Harsh - but it is a choice and the consequence will be remembered every time she has to look in the mirror or someone asks her what the heck happened to her hair! LOL!

Ya might want to tell her that she can go right ahead and cut her hair - but SHE'S the one who is going to look funny if she does. She'll have to live with it until it grows out.

I have a 9 year old son - he pulls some of that stuff on me - well he used to but I made him LIVE with the consequences of HIS choice rather than begging or cajoling or bribing or threatening him to change his mind. He'd have a tantrum if we didn't go where he wanted to go and say he wasn't coming with us. Okay! I'll call the baby sitter and YOU can stay home - but you will not be watching TV or having 'fun' time - you can sit in your room and pout. We'll be out having fun. Without you. Only had to call him on it once. He got the message and figured out sometimes it's not always good to get what you ask for.

You're in such a tough position - it really is harder when it's not your child. But be patient and love her (trust me on this one - even birth parents can feel the same way you do at times!) - my brother went through it with his two step children. But in the end - they were his children. Both of them petitioned the court on the 18th birthday to have their last name legally changed to his. Because THEY wanted to. He could not have ever gotten a bigger present.

That's really cool about your brother. Her father has done that, and she doesn't care. She does it every time. She's trying to grow her hair out, so I don't get it.

I didn't read through everything chi, so forgive me if I'm repeating something you already answerd :(

But have you considered ADHD? Or another behavior disability of some kind?