Sending signals into space continuously into space in hopes of contact a good thing or a bad thing?

If the point is to make contact with aliens that have some capability to intepret these signals/intelligence.

How do we know they will be friendly. Why are we taking this chance? It could be hit or miss... they could be helpful or they could be hostile. Why take this chance? Is the reward worth the risk? Its similar to putting your life's savings on the line and you could lose it all or double it. How many people would be willing to do this? And why is this being done without the public choosing if they want this or not?

Can you give any examples? I don't think that we ever have sent signals into space in the hopes of contact with other life forms.

Radio signals

Looking into it a little deeper, it seems the Cosmic Calls in 1999 and 2003 were aimed at more realistic targets than the Aricebo message, which is the only example I knew of, which almost certainly was not meant as an attempt at communication.

However these messages have been rare.

I think that any civilization advanced enough to engage with us with hostility over tens of light years will have the technology to know we are here, whether we send messages or not. I don't think that sending messages will increase the likelihood of being destroyed. Unless there is a nearby civilization that has overlooked us as primitive beings until now, but beaming high powered messages into space might make them think twice about how advanced we are becoming.

Do others have thoughts on this?

I agree with Capuchin. The SETI project is all about listening. The great bulk of our signaling is ordinary broadcast--television and radio signals, such as Survivor, Battlestar Gallactica, CSPAN, Red Dwarf (pretty embarrassing stuff on the whole), which we've been sounding out for decades.

If a hostile civilization wanted to home in on us and wipe us out they probably would have got around to it by now, just out of sheer irritation. Or called the Galactic Police to tell us to turn it down. There's no particular reason to think that a civilization advanced enough to get here would care much about us except as a curiosity. They might keep a wary eye on us in case we attacked THEM. :)

This whole thing fasinates me.I would love to meet someone from another civilization, OK there may be hostiles amongst them out there, but lets face it any being looking in on us wouldn't come within a hairs width of our planet.
The cruellty towards our fellow man is unbelievable.Parts of our race leave plenty to be desired,we kill and torcher,even let our own people die of hunger,serious diseases for want of sharing... fresh water ,food and alike, we are a very self centred race,an.. I'm all right jack race... no I don't think for one minute any foreign being would want to join us.

However I do sometime think we are being watch, I have no concrete reason for this,but I do believe sincerely that there has to be life somewhere out there, more intelligent life than are own,and how I would love to contact them.

Just think what that might mean for this world... they could have cures for all are fatal deseases... cancer, ms, musc',to mention but a few, and who's to say because of their intelligence that they don't have some way of over coming disabilities.

I know it would take many years to get here but how do we know for definite, we have no idea of their capabilities are brain cannot comprehened such things of that enormaty.

Most of us are in contact with someone who has some kind of serious illness, in my own family we have a gene that picks us off one by one, 5 have gone instantly to date and there's nothing that the medical profession can do, if these beings from another planet have the knowledge to find earth then they have to have a superior brain and with that comes knowledge of all manner of things including medical cures.

I would welcome another life form in our world, although sadley probabley not in my life time...

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Originally Posted by 0rphan

This whole thing fasinates me.I would love to meet someone from another civilization, ok there may be hostiles amongst them out there, but lets face it any being looking in on us wouldn't come within a hairs width of our planet.
The cruellty towards our fellow man is unbelievable.Parts of our race leave plenty to be desired,we kill and torcher,even let our own people die of hunger,serious diseases for want of sharing... fresh water ,food and alike, we are a very self centred race,an..i'm all right jack race... no i don't think for one minute any foreign being would want to join us.

However i do sometime think we are being watch, i have no concrete reason for this,but i do believe sincerely that there has to be life somewhere out there, more intelligent life than are own,and how i would love to contact them.

Just think what that might mean for this world....they could have cures for all are fatal deseases...cancer, ms, musc',to mention but a few, and who's to say because of their intelligence that they don't have some way of over coming disabilities.

I know it would take many years to get here but how do we know for definite, we have no idea of their capabilities are brain cannot comprehened such things of that enormaty.

Most of us are in contact with someone who has some kind of serious illness, in my own family we have a gene that picks us off one by one, 5 have gone instantly to date and there's nothing that the medical profession can do, if these beings from another planet have the knowledge to find earth then they have to have a superior brain and with that comes knowledge of all manner of things including medical cures.

I would welcome another life form in our world, although sadley probabley not in my life time......

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And antimatter weaponry? :rolleyes:

Anti-matter weaponry... well that's all hypathetical at the moment, but lets hope it doesn't happen, such a huge power source in the wrong hands could lead to our destruction.

Don't know much more about it, other than that...

I like the fact that most people like to think that were looking for friends in the universe, and if any cantact with an alien race is made your all worried weather they'll be hostile towards us, if any do visit here they will be looking to see if they can live here, which is what were doing, looking for a place that we can live, if there are other species there we will attempt to integrate ourselves with them and see if our species can live peacefully and if not we will attack them, because it comes down to survival, eventually (ok yes it's a heck of a way away) our species won't be able to live in this solar system anymore and we will have to find somewhere to live, and hence we will invade another planet if we find one and if its deemed necessary for our survival eliminate them.

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Originally Posted by Kamala55

Sending signals into space continously into space in hopes of contact a good thing or a bad thing?

If the point is to make contact with aliens that have some capability to intepret these signals/intelligence.

How do we know they will be friendly. Why are we taking this chance? It could be hit or miss...they could be helpful or they could be hostile. Why take this chance? Is the reward worth the risk? Its similiar to putting your life's savings on the line and you could lose it all or double it. How many people would be willing to do this? And why is this being done without the public choosing if they want this or not?

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I think the answer is simple. Us humans, or shall I say scientific minded humans, have an over-whelming urgh to know our origin of the universe. Since religion provides absolutely no proof of anything, we are forced to seek a scientific logical answer. One that isn't so far fetched and just plain silly. So we will endless seek contact from anyone who will bother to contact us. This may take centuries for someone the see our signal. But we will never cease to try. It is human nature to know the truth about our being. Just like the subatomic particle accelerated in France. Billions of $ to simply crash to particles together in order to attempt to produce some sort of 'Mass' out of super charged energy. This would make Einstein very happy. We will never cease to know this ultimate question of why we are here. But of course, religion will always try to blow it up, just as in the movie, "Contact."

The first transmitted signals from humans (which, by the way,among them, was Hitler's speech to rally Nazis) haven't even reached the edges of our ow solar system's oort cloud.

Hmmmmm so one of the first signals we could get back might be from space nazis lol

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Originally Posted by fretfast

The first transmitted signals from humans (which, by the way,among them, was Hitler's speech to rally Nazis) haven't even reached the edges of our ow solar system's oort cloud.

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Not true. You must be thinking about TV signals - it is true that one of the first TV broascasts was of Hitler at the 1936 Berlin Olympics - a point made famous in the movie "Contact." However, radio transmissions have been going on ever since the invention of the "wireless" in 1895. Broadcasting of human voice was first done in 1906. Commercial radio broadcasts started in 1920. So radio signals with human voices, music etc have travelled around 102 light-years, which puts the leading edge of radio signals way beyond the Oort Cloud (which has a radius of about 3 LY), and even past the closest 1000 or so stars.

And don't forget,

Voyager has a never ending greeting being broadcast on it's never ending travels through the milky way galaxy.

The Golden Record

Both Voyager spacecrafts carry a greeting to any form of life, should that be encountered. The message is carried by a phonograph record - -a 12-inch gold-plated copper disk containing sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth. The contents of the record were selected for NASA by a committee chaired by Carl Sagan of Cornell University. Dr. Sagan and his associates assembled 115 images and a variety of natural sounds. To this they added musical selections from different cultures and eras, and spoken greetings from Earth-people in fifty-five languages.

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Originally Posted by ebaines

Not true. You must be thinking about TV signals - it is true that one of the first TV broascasts was of Hitler at the 1936 Berlin Olympics - a point made famous in the movie "Contact." However, radio transmissions have been going on ever since the invention of the "wireless" in 1895. Broadcasting of human voice was first done in 1906. Commercial radio broadcasts started in 1920. So radio signals with human voices, music etc have travelled around 102 light-years, which puts the leading edge of radio signals way beyond the Oort Cloud (which has a radius of about 3 LY), and even past the closest 1000 or so stars.

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So, in fact all the transmissions, meaning radio, TV, communications etc, are travelling into space?

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Originally Posted by mantooon

So, in fact all the transmissions, meaning radio, tv, communications etc, are travelling into space?

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Sure. Radio/TV transmissions are radio waves - which means they are a form of light. So just as the light from stars can travel many light years through space, so too can radio waves. Like ripples in a pond - if you have a pond of almost infinite size and drop a stone in it, how far do the waves travel? Astronomers routinely study stars, galaxies, etc at radio wavelengths because their relatively long wavelengths can more easily penetrate through the dust, allowing them to "see" further into the galaxy core. Of course, the further they go the weaker they get - power goes as the inverse square of the distance - and so given the relatively weak signal strength of commercial broadcasts the power level of these transmissions after traveling tens or hundreds of light years is so weak that it is doubtful they could be discerned from the background noise. For example, if there were intelligent life on a planet orbiting Alpha Centauri (the nearest star to us after our own sun - about 3 LY away), and they were broadcasting radio or TV using the same technology and power levels as our own commercial stations, it is doubtful that we on earth would be able to pick it up, even using the powerful Arecibo radio telescope.

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Originally Posted by KBC

And don't forget,

Voyager has a never ending greeting being broadcast on it's never ending travels through the milky way galaxy.

The Golden Record

Both Voyager spacecrafts carry a greeting to any form of life, should that be encountered. The message is carried by a phonograph record - -a 12-inch gold-plated copper disk containing sounds and images selected to portray the diversity of life and culture on Earth. The contents of the record were selected for NASA by a committee chaired by Carl Sagan of Cornell University. Dr. Sagan and his associates assembled 115 images and a variety of natural sounds. To this they added musical selections from different cultures and eras, and spoken greetings from Earth-people in fifty-five languages.

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I don't believe that it's broadcasting, it just has the record on board - an alien civilization would have to work out how to play it in order to hear the data. (There are very convoluted instructions on the cover, designed so that a civilization with knowledge of fundamental physical constants would be able to play it, maybe)

I say we should communicate despite any potential risk. Since Earth is essentially a closed system, and if it isn't, then the solar system is, all closed systems fall towards entropy, then someday we as a race will have to leave the planet. So why not start looking for digs now.

Maybe somewhere out there there is a galactic homeowners union that will allow us to become their new neighbors.

Seriously though, what could really turn out to be cool is if the speed of light can be exceeded by some sort of superlominal signaling device. Then think of the conversations we could have! I know there's a great deal of debate, but the recent BBC report sure sounded exciting. I can only imagine what will be learned at CERN in the next couple decades.

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Originally Posted by Sitkadiver

I say we should communicate despite any potential risk. Since Earth is essentially a closed system, and if it isn't, then the solar system is, all closed systems fall towards entropy, then someday we as a race will have to leave the planet. So why not start looking for digs now.

Maybe somewhere out there there is a galatic homeowners union that will allow us to become their new neighbors.

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Suppose we find a hospitable planet to live at an other galaxy. How can we ever actually go there?

By space ship/shuttle/ whatever you want to call it.

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Originally Posted by albear

by space ship/shuttle/ whatever you want to call it.

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:D... I am not asking what the transport will be, but HOW are we going to get there... we will need to travel endlessly for many many light years... it is impossible.

Hello man:

Haven't you ever heard of warp power? I know, I know, it's a Star Trek thing... But, if we're going to travel out there, THAT'S how we're going to do it. We're going to warp spacetime.

excon

Hmm, yes, but we are not going to survive that long to invent warp technology...

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Originally Posted by mantooon

:D ...I am not asking what the transport will be, but HOW are we going to get there...we will need to travel endlessly for many many light years...it is impossible.

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No it isn't, it will take a very long time yes, at our current level of technology anyhoo, but that doesn't mean that only one crew can do it, if there is a large enough population on the original craft then via reproduction the next generations will make it there and we will have successfully transported the human race to another hospitable planet

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Originally Posted by Sitkadiver

I say we should communicate despite any potential risk. Since Earth is essentially a closed system, and if it isn't, then the solar system is, all closed systems fall towards entropy, then someday we as a race will have to leave the planet. So why not start looking for digs now.

Maybe somewhere out there there is a galatic homeowners union that will allow us to become their new neighbors.

Seriously though, what could really turn out to be cool is if the speed of light can be exceeded by some sort of superlominal signaling device. Then think of the conversations we could have! I know there's a great deal of debate, but the recent BBC report sure sounded exciting. I can only imagine what will be learned at CERN in the next couple decades.

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Can you explain what you mean by "essentially a closed system"? I wouldn't say that the Earth or the Solar System were closed systems.

The Earth is not a closed system since it is inundated with solar energy, which (among other things) supports life. Plants use solar energy to build sugars and other molecules, and all other living things get energy by eating plants or organisms that eat plants. Earth also loses energy constantly, as heat and light radiate out into space. It loses molecules of atmosphere where the atmosphere meets space.

I don't think the solar system would be considered a closed system either, since material and energy are lost from the solar system. Plus it's movements are influenced by gravitational forces from the rest of the galaxy. I'm sure there's more, but I'm not able to say off the top of my head.

A "closed system" is a theoretical construct for teaching purposes. They don't really exist, I don't think.

Is it true that the TV transmissions are to reach the 'border' of our galaxy in 5 months?

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Originally Posted by ruxdeac

Is it true that the tv transmissions are to reach the 'border' of our galaxy in 5 months?

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No, we are about 25,000 light years from the center of the galaxy, and the galaxy is about 100,000 light years across. So light would take about 75,000 years to reach the closest 'border'. Also, the transmission would have probably dwindled to well below background levels by then.

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Originally Posted by asking

I don't think the solar system would be considered a closed system either, since material and energy are lost from the solar system. Plus it's movements are influenced by gravitational forces from the rest of the galaxy. I'm sure there's more, but I'm not able to say off the top of my head.

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The most obvious evidence that it's not a closed system is light from stars :)

Oh, right, that!
Duh.

Well lets see,our milky way has over a billion stars & growing,that's our galaxys along there are over a billion galaxys that are visible for use,many of then with more stars than us,so if we don't send signals the chance of another life form finding us is at least a trillion to one on the overall schale of things,at least a billion to 1 in our milkey way galaxy alone,the next closet galaxy is the andromeda galaxy which is about 2,500,000 light years away or around 26 trillion miles,that's 2 million 500 thosand years to get here moving at the speed of light,that's if they don't do a space jump or worm hole type,so I think we wouldn't be notice as easily if we did not send signal,I think we be better off to work on exploreing our on solar system at this time once we our more efficient in space travel & undestand more about space & the cosmos then send signals,we don't even know how far they travel in space we think they go on & on,butuntil someone is setting at the andromeda or whirlpool galaxy to receive it its just a theory,but then again that my theory??

Please tell me who is sending these signlas into space with the express intent of making contact? To my knowledge this was done only once, back in the 1970's, using the Arecibo antenna in Puerto Rico. See: Arecibo message - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The good news I suppose is that while TV and radio have been broadcast continuously for 100 years now, these signals are generally so weak that it would be very difficult for someone listening in from a few light years away to pick them up. This is one of the reasons I think the SETI project is doomed to disappointment - the only way we'll be able to "hear" another civilization that is tens or hundreds of light years away via radio is if that other civilization is intentionally trying to contact us already, by beamimg very high energy radio waves specifically in our direction. Seems highly unlikely to me.

Lest get one thing straight we aren't taking the risk we the people has to deal with the risk... the government is taking that risk that could get all of us killed and they wouldn't lose any sleep over it