Many civilians have died in space accidents. Is the knowledge gained from space exploration worth the cost of human lives?
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Many civilians have died in space accidents. Is the knowledge gained from space exploration worth the cost of human lives?
if you supply a method to determine the value of knowledge and human life I'll let you know. Until then that is a question that each person must answer for themselves.
Subjectively speaking, no I do not think so.
Lives have been lost over much less.
Man can't resist conquering anything.Now he is trying to conquer space.and lives have been lost.The question is how much did we gain.I don't care losing life as long as it is not mine.
You are not thinking in the long term. We are gaining much more than knowledge by exploring space. This planet will not always be here. If we don't find somewhere else to live, humanity will cease to exist.
Huge asteroids and other objects hit the Earth on a regular, though infrequent, basis. All of humanity could die in one of these disasters. And of course the Sun will eventually turn this planet into a burned-out cinder when it dies.
We either have a future in space, or none at all.
Please define what you mean by "many civilians have died in space accidents." Do you mean non-military people (the usual meaning), or do you mean people not connected with NASA or other government organizations?
It is important for people(civilian or Military) to find an alternative to Earth. We are consuming and creating Biological and Chemical Hazzards very destructive to people and other living things. What ever problem we have on earth will likely follow to other Planets.
Plus, there are worse things you could do with your life, than Explore Space.
As far as I know no civilians have ever died in space. To the best of my knowledge everyone who has died in space has been of age and has been above average in intelligence, they made their decision knowing all the dangers. As JimGunther pointed out either humanity conquers space travel or we become extinct. Our sun is a star, it will eventually swell 3-5 times its current size and consume earth. If we can colonize mars well get about 8 billion years more. Then our sun will become a black hole and consume our galaxy. As you can see our time here on earth, in our galaxy, has an expiration.
I apologize, didn't mean to beat a dead horse.
Christa McAuliffe springs to mind as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
When the sun swells - it will grow too much larger than 3-5 times it's current size - it will actually swell to over 250 times it's current size. However we're still not sure if Earth will be spared or not.
Our sun will not become a black hole. Where did you get that idea from? Even if it did, why do you think it would "consume our galaxy"?
Right. Even a black hole I think is not powerful to swallo a WHOLE galaxy! Anyway, I heard that the sun will swell many times, perhaps will comsume the Earth, but anyway, the temperature will get so high that nearly everything will burn on Earth, and then, the sun will shrink to a dwarf star and eventually 'extinguish'.
I think Mars is nearer to the sun, as far as I know. But colonising other planets, perhaps in other solar systems would help, especially if the sun there will be younger than ours.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
I was under the impression all stars with the mass of our sun and bigger become black holes at the end of their life cycle. I was also under the impression the heat given off by the sun will evaporate the entire ocean about mid-way through the process of going super nova destroying any chance of sustainable human life. I heard/read this several times most notable in a speech by a notable astronomer who has done a couple of specials on the discovery channel and has been on book TV a couple of times.(hes black, glasses, late thirties, good speaker, likes to talk about how he is friends with james cameron and had the shot of the night sky in the movie titanic changed to be historically accurate. I think he runs the national planetarium or conservatory.)
Well, there are stars that end up into black holes, and others that do not. I don't know though how to differentiate but, I think that our sun will not end up into a black hole.
You need a star with about 100 solar masses or more to form a black hole.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
You're right, human life would probably not survive the sun growing to become a red giant if we were to remain on Earth. Unknown008, Mars is further from the Sun, and perhaps a colony could survive there.
Are you thinking of Neil deGrasse Tyson? He's a fantastic speaker for astronomy and science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Bingo.
As a biologist, I have to respond to this. It's very unlikely that our species will still be around when the sun begins to evolve into a red giant and envelope Earth a few billion years from now. Most species don't last millions of years let alone a billion or more. I think we'll be extremely lucky to have to deal with the problem of the Earth being burned up by the sun! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JimGunther
There also hasn't been a species with our intelligence before(as far as we know) but yeah were pretty likely to kill ourselves before hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I grant your point! :)
But I wasn't making any specific criticism of humans. I was just saying that very few species survive that long. Smart as we are, there's no particular reason we should do massively better than average. Our penchant for destroying our own environment (and make incredibly dangerous weapons) doesn't help, but I was trying to ignore that and just look at it as a matter of how long species normally last.
After a major mass extinction, like the one that got the dinosaurs 65 million years ago, it takes just 5 million years to repopulate the Earth with new species. Species come and go over 1-20 million years, winking on.. . And winking off. That's a very short time in the context of billions of years, when the sun will run out of hydrogen and begin expanding... I don't think we'll be around to see that, let alone worry about it. I think that just as individuals have to confront their own mortality, we might want to give some thought to the idea that our species is mortal too.
I think we all, somewhere deep down, believe that humans are different. It's hard to come to terms with the fact that we're really not. (Hence religion, etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by asking
I couldn't agree more. It is hard to come to terms with that idea. And most people never will because they reject the idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
But I guess that I think we should be honest with ourselves about that. There probably will be a last person on Earth someday, though it's a scary thought. If you have read the story of Ishi, the California Indian who was the last of his tribe, you can get a sense of what it would be like. And I remember reading about a Hawaiian bird that was the last of its species--a male singing its mating call. But no females ever appeared because there weren't any...
I understand and agree with the overall general point that humans are no different.. I constantly point out to my close friends we are monkeys. But we are monkeys with intelligence that no other recorded animal can rival. Call me an optimist but I believe if all of humanity puts there efforts into something I think very few goals would be unachievable. I do recognize there is a good chance humanity will kill each other off, Im not an idiot(at least I hope Im not :-) ).
I didn't know about Christa McAuliffe, I was three at the time so I don't remember any of the media coverage.
Sorry, you're right Capuchin, I made a big big mistake, lol. Thanks for reminding me.
Yes, good point there.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
It happened the day after I was born.. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capuchin
Sigh. I'm the oldster here by a long way. I was working on a shuttle biology project at a university and in my 20s. Because of the disaster, they put our project on hold for 7 years. It was supposed to have gone up on the next shuttle...
Sorry about your project being delayed, did you still get to work on it?
By the way, civilians died in the recent Space Shuttle disasters.
Life is precious no matter who they are... you could say Astronaults choose to do their job, just as the military do in the wars, but it does not make their life any less valuable.
Looking back at that first moon landing.. about 40 years -ish... it doesn't seem to me that we have achieved anything else, having said that, no one knows what goes on behind closed doors, least of all ordinary people like myself.
I have to say that any knowledge regarding an alternative place to live, has to be good, therefore those brave people, did not give their lives in vain, but for their believe in preserving mankind.
May God Bless Them All.
As you can tell by my avatar, I worked on the Apollo XI mission and can tell you that we have learned a lot about how to live in space but obviously have a lot still to learn. NASA suffered budget cuts after Apollo XVII and decided to go in the direction of near-earth missions and construction of the Space Station, and of course, unmanned probes of various types. The knowledge obtained to that point will be used in future space applications.
I don't feel people who have lost their lives in space have done so in vain either. It is an incredibly dangerous place to survive in and yet we must learn to do it if we as a civilization are to survive.
No. They used my protocol, but I was in a new career by then. Thanks for asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuBas07
I think space flight is worthwhile. I wouldn't force anyone to go though and I feel bad about animals that have been sent out there to die. I kind of prefer unmanned flights that collect lots of data. We get more information for the cost and no one needs to die. But the flights with men and women capture people's imagination and serve a purpose too, but a different one.
Each time we have explored new boundaries i.e.: Drugs, Surgical procedures, territories, military tactics, traffic patterns, aircraft, spacecraft, psychoanalytic , domestic animals, political partnerships, military partnerships, birthing theories, "Enlightened Political" theories, bacterial or viral theories or infectious disease , transportation (Cars, Trains, Horses, Walking. etc.). Antibacterial soaps. Electricity, Drinking water, Chorline, Chorline in water, Insulin, Colon Cleansing, Religious cult therories ( I lost 30 classmates in JONESTOWN). The Great Leap Foreword, Five year plans Communist stuff. Etc. Ad Nauseun. ( The teacher died in space in front of millons of students around the world ) .
I'm reassured that was a fake just like the moon Landing. No Laughter.
Sorry talaniman, I had a stroke 3months ago and part of my therapy is this and I screwed p and I lost my continuam. I am so sorry and I am fatigued...
I'm sorry for being sarcastic or if I hurt you. I was quite vigerous earlier but I'm not so sure now.
As I just stated in another thread, the human curiosity about origin is powerful and will never cease as long as humans are thinking. Lives and Trillions of dollars go towards this effort. I think if humanity was on the brink of extinction. The last gasp would be to send another probe into deep space and find an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by HELPe-dawg
I would say it is up ro the person putting there life on the line.
In my opinion, war have killed more people then exploring space ever will. We gain so much knowledge, and to be knowledge pays off in the long run. Don't you think so?
I mean, lets say, hundreds of years ago, people didn't know about comets, stars, planets, etc.
Then, what if an asteroid collide into Earth killing millions of people
Now, with knowledge, possibly from space exploration, we know about comets, asteroids, etc. Now we will know what to do or even how to prevent it from happening. Right?
So, maybe using a few life to gain the knowledge to safe millions or even billions of life isn't so bad at all!
Stephen Hawking said that as a species, we will not survive on a single planet. There are too many accidents that betray life on a single planet. We must spread out into space to hope surviving.
This is more a question about ethics than about astronomy.Quote:
Originally Posted by HELPe-dawg
In general I would say that if humanity would - as a group - gain from space exploration, than it is worth the loss of some individuals.
So far we have gained enormously from space exploration.
From Internet to computers, from energy to food technology, from sattellite to GSM to Route planning technology : imagine how life would be if we would live now with the technology levels of the 1950's...
Many early pilots died, and still today many pilots die in airplane accidents. Was it worth to die for aviation? Imagine life in this world without airplanes.
Many (car) drivers die yearly on the roads. Imagine life in this world without cars.
Etc.
We have people who risk their necks in extreme sports, mountain climbing, car racing etc. which is fine with me, but these activities really have no intrinsic value other than fun (and a sense of personal achievement to the individuals) and nobody seems to question those risks. In comparison, the search for knowledge usually is of benefit to the society as a whole, yet taking risks for knowledge is questioned.
Good point , FlyYakker. But how boring life would be without these risks!
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