I have always been active in searching creek beds, researching history of the area I live, finding out where old trading posts were and have found some pieces even in my own yard while gardening. I have one piece I would very much like input on. If I receive a post of others with common interest, I will photograph the piece I am interested in getting an opinion on. Some older friends of ours were amateur archeologists and shared a wealth of information with us. We were invited to a meeting in their home with others of like intests. This couple had been on digs in several states and always logged each piece, photographed them, numbered them, dated them, and logged them with the University of that state... all legal... all with great reverence. The couple have a small museum in Baxter Springs, Ark. Which houses arrowheads, pottery pieces, etc. They have passed away now but when shown this piece I am interested in knowing about, when it was expressed that it looked too perfect to be hand made, more like factory made, the man said, "Indians made perfect work!" I believe it.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

I'm not sure how much I can help. But, I am a member of the local chapter of the Illinois Association for Advancement of Archaeology. I do have great interest in these kinds of things. I have found a couple of artifacts on my own.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

I'm not sure how much I can help. But, I am a member of the local chapter of the Illinois Association for Advancement of Archaeology. I do have great interest in these kinds of things. I have found a couple of artifacts on my own.

---

Thank you for your post. I would love to hear about the artifacts you have found. So much history all around us! I look forward to receiving more information from you. :)

Hi there!
Thought I would post a couple of photos. The one of the map is a print of a hand drawn map that shows the area where I live. It is as wide as my dining room table but not quite as long. There is so much history handwritten on this map. It shows where Sam Houston lived with his Indian wife before going to Texas. It shows cane breaks which are still there today. A man followed the map a few years ago and except for the widening of the rivers and some changes, so many of the landmarks are still there. It shows where the trading posts were in the areas, Indian encampments, etc.

Just thought you might enjoy seeing it even though you cannot read it in the photo.

The other photos shows:

Top left - the piece dug up in our garden in the back yard that we would love to know about. It looks factory made but the man I wrote about earlier says it was used as a tool possibly with leather straps attached, using a stick which wore the indention in the end, possibly for starting fires. That never seemed to fit the shape for me but would love to know. It is an unusual find even if factory made for some purpose. Then there is the axe head, two spades, then again on the left are geodes which are plentiful around here. The top two have been broken open. They are hollow inside. The bottom two have not been broken. Some when broken, have mineral matter in them?? We were told that Indians used these to put their paint made from berries and such in for painting pottery.

Just thought you would enjoy viewing these. I have photos of our other pieces which include pottery shards.

Fascinating map, Jan! When posting the pictures of the artifacts, it would help to have a ruler in the image along side of them so that people can also get an idea as to what their size is. Just a thought.

Really cool items! I have been fascinated with these type of finds for a long long time! I've never actually found anything myself though. Amazing what a person can walk right over and not even know it is there. Many old trails and camps are around this part of Ohio, and I'd love to go on a search sometime... First, I should probably take a course to learn a lot more about what to look for though. Just for a little background on me, I am into genealogy a lot and have been involved with historical societies. I really enjoy museums and old artifacts. No end to the excitement that such things bring me!
Thanks for sharing, and I hope to hear more!!

Where would one obtain a map like the one in the image that you have posted?

That is a good idea Craig! Thanks. :) The artifacts are packed away in my closet right now but after the holidays perhaps I could get them out and rephotograph them. I won't post any of the others until I am able to use the ruler. I do always enjoy seeing some way to gage the size of certain pieces. A friend of mine creates tiny little babies out of some sort of polyresin, I don't recall what it is called and will place her thumb or a ruler along side some of them when posting the photo on eBay. I will remmember to do that!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

Really cool items! I have been fascinated with these type of finds for a long long time! I've never actually found anything myself though. Amazing what a person can walk right over and not even know it is there. Many old trails and camps are around this part of Ohio, and I'd love to go on a search sometime... First, I should probably take a course to learn a lot more about what to look for though. Just for a little background on me, I am into geneology a lot and have been involved with historical societies. I really enjoy museums and old artifacts. No end to the excitement that such things bring me!
Thanks for sharing, and I hope to hear more!!!

---

I am so thrilled you enjoyed the post. I too get really excited when delving into the history of the areas. I think I was born in the wrong time. :confused: I have always wanted to live during the "Old West" days! :p I had been asked to ride with a group who do the recreations but at the time, it didn't work out, children were little, tried to find property to rent to keep a horse to ride in the events, sadly didn't work out. I love hunting, and fishing and these both afford me the opportunity to scout out areas and seek treasures, even if only interesting barb wire. Found some square barbed wire while scouting out a deer hunting area. What a treasure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Where would one obtain a map like the one in the image that you have posted?

---

For this particular one, the only place I would have any idea where to have a copy made would be to contact the company whose name is at the bottom of the map of which I cannot remember the name at present. I think they may still be in business here in town. They mainly do work in construction blue prints, draftsman, etc. I am not saying that right. I only know of three copies. The friend who gave this one to us, ours, and there is one on display at the old fort, at "Fort Gibson" a few miles from us. It is under glass and is displayed in one of the officers quarters at the old fort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

Amazing what a person can walk right over and not even know it is there. Thanks for sharing, and I hope to hear more!!!

---

We do walk over much history without realizing it, don't we? As with anything, when one trains their eye to see, they find wonderous things. I have found lots of flint pieces that have been worked only on one side, meaning perhaps the person making the arrowhead either got interrupted or perhaps in the process, chipped off the tip so tossed it. To me, even those "finds: are treasures. :)

Quote:

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clough
Where would one obtain a map like the one in the image that you have posted?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrebel7
For this particular one, the only place I would have any idea where to have a copy made would be to contact the company whose name is at the bottom of the map of which I cannot remember the name at present. I think they may still be in business here in town. They mainly do work in construction blue prints, draftsman, etc. I am not saying that right. I only know of three copies. The friend who gave this one to us, ours, and there is one on display at the old fort, at "Fort Gibson" a few miles from us. It is under glass and is displayed in one of the officers quarters at the old fort.

---

Thank you for your answer!

Now, you've got me thinking! :eek:

We have a Rock Island County Historical Society around where I live. Perhaps they might have a map like that in a book.

We also have the Rock Island Arsenal where I live. There is a museum on the Arsenal. And, in this city of Rock Island was the encampment of the tribe over which Black Hawk was the Chief.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Thank you for your answer!

Now, you've got me thinking! :eek:

We have a Rock Island County Historical Society around where I live. Perhaps they might have a map like that in a book.

We also have the Rock Island Arsenal where I live. There is a museum on the Arsenal. And, in this city of Rock Island was the encampment of the tribe over which Black Hawk was the Chief.

---

That could prove very interesting!!

I wish I could type out all the info on the map but it just has so much history on it. It is all, of course, hand written, very tiny. What a treasure!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrebel7

if only interesting barb wire. Found some square barbed wire while scouting out a deer hunting area. What a treasure.

---

That reminds me of a trip I took to Texas back in 1985... there was a museum display of old barb wire. I'm not sure if it was near Judge Roy Beam's museum... or if it was around Big Bend park.. but it was fascinating to see all the varieties... some were like razors! And others were just painful looking! I remember as I was looking at it, I was reminded of a story that my fourth grade teacher read to the class... I think it was The Boxcar Family or mayby Bobsie Twins not sure... but anyway in the story it was describing how the father and son were stretching the barb wire to put up a fence when the wire broke causing the wire to snap back due to the tension, and a younger brother was struck in the face cutting him...

And that brings me (in mind) to another great story that same teacher read to us called The Iceberg Hermit... I'm planning on reading that story to my son this weekend! I found an old copy at a local thrift store...

Sorry for going astray with my thoughts, hope you found them interesting.

The local courthouse might be able to point you to a similar map of the area... possibly in the engineers office... if you go and ask, if not in that office, they will know where to send you... They probably have different large maps like that for each area or subdivision... and not very expensive to have them make you a copy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

\
We have a Rock Island County Historical Society around where I live. Perhaps they might have a map like that in a book.

---

Great answer... I have seen similar old map books at historical societies... I had forgotten about that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

That reminds me of a trip I took to Texas back in 1985... there was a museum display of old barb wire. I'm not sure if it was near Judge Roy Beam's museum... or if it was around Big Bend park.. but it was fascinating to see all the varieties... some were like razors! and others were just painful looking! I remember as I was looking at it, I was reminded of a story that my fourth grade teacher read to the class... I think it was The Boxcar Family or mayby Bobsie Twins not sure...but anyways in the story it was describing how the father and son were stretching the barb wire to put up a fence when the wire broke causing the wire to snap back due to the tension, and a younger brother was struck in the face cutting him...

And that brings me (in mind) to another great story that same teacher read to us called The Iceberg Hermit... I'm planning on reading that story to my son this weekend! I found an old copy at a local thrift store...

Sorry for going astray with my thoughts, hope you found them interesting.

The local courthouse might be able to point you to a similar map of the area... possibly in the engineers office... if you go and ask, if not in that office, they will know where to send you... They probably have different large maps like that for each area or subdivision... and not very expensive to have them make you a copy.

---

OUCH!! :eek: :eek: :eek:
That brought back some memories of movies I have seen where that happened. It is intersting how sharing just a few thoughts can trigger so many memories from our past.

I love that you shared that and how special that you are going to read the "The Iceberg Hermit" to your son. I have never heard of that one.

I know the barbed wire takes me back to times in my mind when I think of free range and then how it all started building up to what it eventually came to be today, buildings everywhere, fences everywhere. Oh well... change happens but when I get bogged down, I just go out to the woods or the river and realize that all that was there before all of this and it gives me happy, peaceful thougths! A simpler time!! Now, don't get me wrong, I love running water, bathtubs with hot water, facilities, washer and dryers!! LOL I enjoy the dreaming of it but I imagine the reality was pretty harsh at times.

Please keep posting thoughts, memories, experiences. I love it!

Good night Craig and Oneguy! I have enjoyed the postings this evening. Hope to read more from you all on the subject later on. Have a good restful night! :)

Hi All!

I am posting a photo of some pottery shards. I haven't gotten the pieces out to photograph by a ruler yet but by telling you these are just about two inch pieces, give or take, perhaps that will give you a good enough idea for now. The textures are different, colors and patterns. Just such pieces of history.

One of my best friends from forever is a retired teacher but has gone back to college to learn the language of her ancestors, "Cherokee", with plans to teach emersion classes upon graduation. She has also learned to dig her own clay, process it and make beautiful pieced of pottery and fire it the way the "Cherokee's" fired it, in a pit in the ground. Most fascinating to me. I picked polk berries and processed and canned the juice to make dye for her to use to paint patterns on her pottery. If not processed correctly, it will eventually fade. There are two ways I found to process it. Hope I chose the right one!! Every link I have read on line says about the same. Just can't figure out how to classify the process I was doing. She appreciated it anyway and it was fun finding the berries and processing them as a surprise for her. I just did a cold pack, not pressure cooker. I am not much for in the kitchen! :p

Gosh, Jan! I'm starting to think that the inside of your home must look like some kind of museum! I know that mine does! :eek:

I do have some arrowheads. I did not find them myself. They were given to me. They are not completed. I have heard that incomplete arrow heads or other weaponry and/or tools made by Indians are not as valuable if they aren't completed in their construction for the purpose for which they were intended.

Is that true?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Gosh, Jan! I'm starting to think that the inside of your home must look like some kind of museum! I know that mine does! :eek:

I do have some arrowheads. I did not find them myself. They were given to me. They are not completed. I have heard that incomplete arrow heads or other weaponry and/or tools made by Indians are not as valuable if they aren't completed in their construction for the purpose for which they were intended.

Is that true?

---

Not so much a museum as just a mess! LOL :p But a fun mess!
;)

Hi, Jan!

I am wondering if you or someone who might see this thread has an answer to the question that I asked in post #19?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Hi, Jan!

I am wondering if you or someone who might see this thread has an answer to the question that I asked in post #19?

---

Hi Craig,
My first impulse when I read the post #19 was to say that any piece of flint, that has been worked in any manner with the pattern consistent with the arrowhead or bird point, ceremonial point or tool or weapon, would be worth something. However, that was speaking from my heart not head knowledge. I was just about to do some research and got caught up on a call with Denise! I am off the phone now so will research a bit and get back with you in a few minutes! Okie Dokie?? :)

Thank you, Jan! That's just fine! Based upon what you have just now stated, it might appear that collecting, trading and selling arrowheads or other artifacts for that matter, might be very much like coin collecting and art collecting, trading and selling because of the different degrees of wear and tear, quality of design and the design itself incorporated on the artifacts. Just a thought...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Thank you, Jan! That's just fine! Based upon what you have just now stated, it might appear that collecting, trading and selling arrowheads or other artifacts for that matter, might be very much like coin collecting and art collecting, trading and selling because of the different degrees of wear and tear, quality of design and the design itself incorporated on the artifacts. Just a thought...

---

You're welcome Craig! I did research and even signed in to another type of forum similar to this one. Haven't learned much yet. The info I found was quite interesting. I believe you are 100 % accurate in thinking this type of collecting, trading, and selling arrowheads or other artifacts is probably very much like coin collecting.

One thing the archaeologists shared with us is that as civilization progressed, the art of arrowhead and tool making diminished. The Indians would reshape old arrowheads rather than taking as much pride in making their own. Sadly we see the same progression in all facets of life.

We have some arrowheads that are marked as "Archaic" and some have the estimated age. These are pieces that were given to us, not pieces we have found. We are not knowledgeable enough for that! :( We found a thumb scraper in our garden. It is perfect. It was used to scrape the insides of small hides. We have some drills but those were given to us also.

I remember seeing one piece, well, a photo of the piece, when we were in the meeting I spoke about in an earlier post. It sold for $7,000.00 for a private collection. For some reason, when I heard that, it sort of made me feel sad. Our friends donated pieces to museums in the states they found the pieces for others to enjoy and I respected that but with the economy the way it is, well... who knows what I would do in a pinch! LOL I think I could sell coins much easier than I could an arrowhead, birdpoint, or tool but I am sure some coin collectors feel very protective over their special finds also. We each have our passions in life. I will keep a check on that other forum for a bit though, just in case, you and I can learn something that might make us not have to have another financial care in the world! That sounds kind of wonderful, you know?? LOL

Did we lose "Oneguyinohio"? I liked his stories and his interest in the past.

Hello, I'm still keeping up. Been distracted with genealogy research and work stuff.

I wanted to mention that a lot of people are going to great lengths to make counterfeit indian artifacts. They are selling these as originals in a lot of outlets.

I recently saw a workshop where an older guy had grinders, polishers, and all sorts of tools for faking the items. He had been doing it for a number of years. He must have had a truck load of scraps scattered around the workshop as well as supplies to fill a semi trailer. He died a lonely old man so he is no longer doing it, but it taught me a lesson about buying items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jrebel7

Did we lose "Oneguyinohio"? I liked his stories and his interest in the past.

---

No. He's just been busy. He is back, above! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

Hello, I'm still keeping up. Been distracted with geneology research and work stuff.

I wanted to mention that a lot of people are going to great lengths to make counterfeit indian artifacts. They are selling these as originals in a lot of outlets.

I recently saw a workshop where an older guy had grinders, polishers, and all sorts of tools for faking the items. He had been doing it for a number of years. He must have had a truck load of scraps scattered around the workshop as well as supplies to fill a semi trailer. He died a lonely old man so he is no longer doing it, but it taught me a lesson about buying items.

---

Hi there! Glad to see you back on this thread. You gave good information. Always good to be aware there is always someone out there trying to take our joy of the find away!! I guess as with all other things "Let the buyer beware!"

I hope you will share more stories when you have time. I have more photos I would enjoy sharing but it is 2:48 a.m. and I think I better get off here for now. I will be checking back tomorrow though!

Until later then!

Wait! Don't go! The night is young yet! :)

I didn't tell you yet about the big stone that I found in the ground when I originally rototilled the area for my vegetable garden a number of years ago!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Wait! Don't go! The night is young yet! :)

I didn't tell you yet about the big stone that I found in the ground when I originally rototilled the area for my vegetable garden a number of years ago!

---

:p Just when I am winding down... you are just getting your second wind!! LOL

Ok, don't keep me in suspense!! What about the big stone you found in the ground?? :)

I too am wondering about the big stone? Oh, and I wanted to mention that my mom found an Indian's head once when they were gardening... well, a buffalo indian head nickel anyway...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

I too am wondering about the big stone? Oh, and I wanted to mention that my mom found an Indian's head once when they were gardening... well, a buffalo indian head nickle anyways...

---

Oneguy, you had me going there for a moment!! The mind was racing with questions. :p One never knows! LOL

This is a grouping of some artifacts found in my garden and some given to us by our friends who have now passed away. Some of the points are bird points and some ceremonial points, so tiny. What talent to be able to make these tiny points from flint rock. I cannot even imagine. After the holidays, if there is interest in these pieces, I will rephotograph them with a ruler or some sort of reference for size.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Clough

Wait! Don't go! The night is young yet! :)

I didn't tell you yet about the big stone that I found in the ground when I originally rototilled the area for my vegetable garden a number of years ago!

---

Hey Craig,
Are you going to tell us?? :)

All this talk about old artifacts has contributed to me wanting to wear some really old style clothing... well, more of a blanket I guess like I believe people wore long ago. Any ideas about finding something like the Indians wore in the old movies, that would be socially acceptable and not have people laughing at me? I'm sort of thinking about a ponch or blanket type thing with a whole cut out to put head through... Is that too odd??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oneguyinohio

All this talk about old artifacts has contributed to me wanting to wear some really old style clothing... well, more of a blanket I guess like I believe people wore long ago. Any ideas about finding something like the Indians wore in the old movies, that would be socially acceptable and not have people laughing at me? I'm sort of thinking about a ponch or blanket type thing with a whole cut out to put head through... Is that too odd???

---

Well Oneguy, you are talking to a gal from the hippie days so I doubt you could get "too odd" with the clothes for me. I was always coming up with something original, unlike the mainstream hippies, so to speak. I never quite got that time when I was in college and the big deal was be an individual then everyone dressed alike, did drugs, etc. I did my own thing, never did drugs, never took a drink of alcohol, rode a motocyle and dressed my own way and I admire people who do so I say go for it!! I even was known as the "iconoclastic" (breaker of images) one in college that changed the dress codes but that is a story for another thread I guess. LOL

I will do some research and come up with something for you for sure. It will have to be tomorrow though. :)

Sounds real good, and you're giving me some courage to go for it! Going to bed now myself. Good night.

If you wish, meet me on the thread tomorrow night and I will try to have some ideas for you. I love it!
Good night! Sleep well. :)

Hi Oneguy!
Just had a moment before running to the Nursing Home to help with my mother's care. Wanted to send a link for you to look at to see if this is anything like you have in mind or something even more simple. Let me know. I love this stuff. I have to leave now but will check later tonight. Have a good day!

MEN'S CLINT EASTWOOD WESTERN STYLE COWBOY PONCHO - (eBay item 230202696963 end time Dec-18-07 18:29:06 PST)