Listen to me carefully. Read my lips. HC DIDN'T become president. She's not an issue. No, trump has no clue how things work, not only finances but also human emotions and disabilities and LBGTQIA issues and racial concerns. He has made that manifestly clear.

Oh, did I mention women's and children's issues? I'm sure I will think of more.... Every video of him is a SNL performance.

First of all, glad you're back and hope you are feeling better. Secondly, I can't read your lips since I can't see you. And for a guy who has no clue how things work, the economy is fantastic and better than in decades, so I think a fair-minded person would have to give him some credit. Human emotions? Please. LBGTQIAXMCIA? He's done nothing to hurt them other than not wanting men to go into women's restrooms with the little girls. Women's and children's issues? The ability for moms and dads to get and keep a good job is very much an issue for those groups.

He is not my first choice, but the party that ran a complete incompetent like HC just cannot complain very much. Tell me anything of consequence she ever accomplished other than conducting official state business, including confidential correspondence, on a unsecured, toy email server she kept in a bathroom closet. So that's the relevance of HC in this conversation. Tal loves to complain endlessly of Trump's character issues, but his party's nominee was no better and probably worse, and I have no intention of letting him forget about that. He voted for the same level of character we presently have in office and she was probably worse.

First of all, glad you're back and hope you are feeling better.
Nope, actually am feeling worse. The hemotolgist thinks I have an infection or virus.

And for a guy who has no clue how things work, the economy is fantastic and better than in decades, so I think a fair-minded person would have to give him some credit.
Nope. Nein. Nada. He's still pulling Obama's economy improvements out of his ... umm ... clown pants. You're a Christian. I grew up as a Southern conservative Republican Christian just like you did. I cannot understand why you can't see Trump for the mean and obscene and cruel human he is. What are you gaining ???

Human emotions? Please. LBGTQIAXMCIA? He's done nothing to hurt them other than not wanting men to go into women's restrooms with the little girls.
Pssst, those are STRAIGHT MALE PEDOPHILES dressing up. LGBTQ people go into a public bathroom, do their business, wash their hands, and leave. Plus, no mother of young children sends her daughters into a public bathroom unescorted. It didn't happen in the '50s or during the decades thereafter. You must not be a mother of young daughters. It. Just. Isn't. Done.

Now, let's gather around the crackling fire in the fireplace and I will tell you about my 30 years of library experiences with LGBTQs and pedophiles.

Women's and children's issues? The ability for moms and dads to get and keep a good job is very much an issue for those groups.
Your family has apparently lived the American Dream.

Repubs NEVER did to Obama what the Demos are doing to Trump: AND YOU KNOW IT.

The ECONOMY is taking off like a rocket: Your arguments that Trump has nothing to do with it are becoming more and more moronic.....TRUMP HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT! The people will vote to preserve their pocketbooks come 2020 and that will show you that they do, indeed, credit Trump with the ECONOMIC GIGANTICISM we are seeing today.

What evidence do you or anybody else have of Trump be a RACIST? This is a false charge and it is a charge that will be utterly destroyed by the 2020 POTUS Election results providing the percentage of Blacks voting for him.....The left is the real RACIST out there: The left demeans Blacks as unable to think for themselves and that the left has to think for them: THAT IS THE WORST!

Nope. Nein. Nada. He's still pulling Obama's economy improvements out of his ... umm ... clown pants What is your evidence of that? Why is it that you politically liberal individuals have such an inability to see the obvious?


You're a Christian. I grew up as a Southern conservative Republican Christian just like you did. I did not become a Christian until my adult years, I spent much of my childhood outside of the south, and the south was a democratic stronghold at that time, so it's kind of "3 strikes and you're out!" Gotta be careful with that prejudice stuff.


I cannot understand why you can't see Trump for the mean and obscene and cruel human he is. What are you gaining ??? You need to read MUCH more carefully. The point is that we had a choice between two mean, obscene, and cruel humans. I selected the one who ran on a pro-life, pro-constitution, pro traditional marriage, pro economic growth platform. Your darling HC was pro abortion, pro gay marriage, pro liberal federal judges, and wouldn't have the slightest idea of how to improve an economy.


Pssst, those are STRAIGHT MALE PEDOPHILES dressing up. LGBTQ people go into a public bathroom, do their business, wash their hands, and leave. Plus, no mother of young children sends her daughters into a public bathroom unescorted. It didn't happen in the '50s or during the decades thereafter. You must not be a mother of young daughters. It. Just. Isn't. Done. You have no way of knowing who those men are who dress up like women. I have a simple solution. If you are XX, you go to the women's room. If you are XY, you go to the men's room. If you are a man wearing a dress in public, then grow a brain and stop doing that. It's stupid and you are degrading yourself by doing so.


Now, let's gather around the crackling fire in the fireplace and I will tell you about my 30 years of library experiences with LGBTQs and pedophiles. OK. I'm sure we can set national policy on the basis of your fireplace lectures. I'm sure they would be interesting and I'd be glad to hear them, but they would have no credibility whatsoever in formulating a point of view that would result in policy changes.


The ECONOMY is taking off like a rocket: Your arguments that Trump has nothing to do with it are becoming more and more moronic.....TRUMP HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT! The people will vote to preserve their pocketbooks come 2020 and that will show you that they do, indeed, credit Trump with the ECONOMIC GIGANTICISM we are seeing today.

What evidence do you or anybody else have of Trump be a RACIST? This is a false charge and it is a charge that will be utterly destroyed by the 2020 POTUS Election results providing the percentage of Blacks voting for him.....The left is the real RACIST out there: The left demeans Blacks as unable to think for themselves and that the left has to think for them: THAT IS THE WORST!

Well said, Vac. Well said.

You wingers crack me up some time you really do. You always want evidence and when you get it, for whatever reason it's never good enough or you find ways to dismiss it. Life is just so unfair isn't it? Maybe we all get over it and accept our politics divides us deeply. Now JL I have to correct a point of fact. A twist of history had the southern democrats change parties and become republicans, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats) same people different party.

Currently though, is it the dems fault that the dufus is so far out of bounds that he merits more extreme measures to reign him in since obviously repubs either don't care or are helpless to moderate him in any useful way. That you just grumble at his nasty mouth and ways is a testament you don't care, and repubs are to afraid to push back his most crazy behavior.

The big lie you guys tell yourself is Obama, or even HC, is the same way, but politics aside, the dufus is a lousy excuse of a human, and was before you elected him. Your not a victim of dem politics, just your own zeal to dominate our society and get what you want. Hey I get that, but let's not use that as an excuse to normalize bad behavior by ignoring it and justifying it by painting your opposition as worse than you. We are not, just have a different way of governance. No the dufus could never run as a dem, he knew it, but as a fire breathing repub his circus is a hit and goes very well with repubs politics of seek and destroy the opposition. I have to admit he does it so well. Perfect in fact.

Expecting dems to roll over though and let him run buck wild with his side show is not going to happen so circle the wagons if you must, but stop whining because we are going to push back against you and your loony base, against the dufus. Win loose or draw it's on so lets get after it. Doesn't matter whether you like it or NOT!

1. The suggestion was that I was raised a southern republican. I was pointing out that the republicans were not popular in the south at that time, so your "evidence" ends up being useless.

2. "..but let's not use that as an excuse to normalize bad behavior by ignoring it." You mean kind of like you overlook and completely excuse the Benghazi disaster and the subsequent lying cover-up? Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, there it is.

3. The most loony thing on this board I know of is your on-going, never ending idea that HC was somehow a wonderful person who should either have been elected pres or appointed to be the next Catholic saint. If you think she has any better character than Trump, then you need therapy ASAP. You are living in a liberal democrat induced truth coma.

4. As to impeachment, if you ever come up with an impeachable offense, get back with us. You can also tell us the names of those five people who testified they had direct knowledge of the president's guilt. Still kind of waiting on that. For that matter, so are the American people.

5. "Win loose or draw it's on so lets get after it. Doesn't matter whether you like it or NOT!" I would agree with that. At least it's a true statement, so that's progress.

1. The suggestion was that I was raised a southern republican. I was pointing out that the republicans were not popular in the south at that time, so your "evidence" ends up being useless.

It's wasn't meant as evidence, just historical FACTS.

2. "..but let's not use that as an excuse to normalize bad behavior by ignoring it." You mean kind of like you overlook and completely excuse the Benghazi disaster and the subsequent lying cover-up? Wow. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, there it is.

Never have I done that, so that makes YOU the liar here!



3. The most loony thing on this board I know of is your on-going, never ending idea that HC was somehow a wonderful person who should either have been elected pres or appointed to be the next Catholic saint. If you think she has any better character than Trump, then you need therapy ASAP. You are living in a liberal democrat induced truth coma.

Another lie of yours since I have never done or said that either!



4. As to impeachment, if you ever come up with an impeachable offense, get back with us. You can also tell us the names of those five people who testified they had direct knowledge of the president's guilt. Still kind of waiting on that. For that matter, so are the American people.

Keep waiting but it's passed you by, and worse the names I gave are people with knowledge who the dufus prevents from testifying so that dog don't hunt. He will be impeached and about half the American people agree with it. Your half don't but who cares.

5. "Win loose or draw it's on so lets get after it. Doesn't matter whether you like it or NOT!" I would agree with that. At least it's a true statement, so that's progress.

You want to roll around in the front yard a few minites, Let's go, just have oxygen handy...enough for both of us.

It's wasn't meant as evidence, just historical FACTS.So you were not using facts as evidence? OOOhhhhhh.


Never have I done that, so that makes YOU the liar here!
So you admit that Benghazi was a disaster and that Obama lied!! Wonderful. We are making progress.


Another lie of yours since I have never done or said that either!
And now are you agreeing that HC is a person of low character in the same way as Trump. This progress we're making now is HISTORIC!


Keep waiting but it's passed you by, and worse the names I gave are people with knowledge who the dufus prevents from testifying so that dog don't hunt. Except, of course, that you gave no names of any witness who said they had direct evidence of guilt, so you are reduced to the pathetic position of appealing to "ghost" witnesses who you think might have something incriminating. "Your Honor, the accused is guilty because we know of people who might come in and say something of interest!" To which the judge would respond, "Not guilty, and you idiot prosecutors need to get out of my court and learn something about law."


You want to roll around in the front yard a few minites, Let's go, just have oxygen handy...enough for both of us. Get TWO LARGE tanks. And that would be just for me!

So you were not using facts as evidence? OOOhhhhhh.

If I did I would explain what it was evidence of besides you being wrong. No just stating the known facts.


So you admit that Benghazi was a disaster and that Obama lied!! Wonderful. We are making progress.


I've always said it was a tragic disaster, Obama lied? NAW! Romney tried that tact before you and you both got corrected with evidence. Not my problem if you ignore dismiss or don't believe the evidence. You do that a lot!


And now are you agreeing that HC is a person of low character in the same way as Trump. This progress we're making now is HISTORIC!

Not even close dude. I would rather have HC in the WH, and I didn't have to hold my nose and vote for her. There is nothing I could hold to vote for the dufus.


Except, of course, that you gave no names of any witness who said they had direct evidence of guilt, so you are reduced to the pathetic position of appealing to "ghost" witnesses who you think might have something incriminating. "Your Honor, the accused is guilty because we know of people who might come in and say something of interest!" To which the judge would respond, "Not guilty, and you idiot prosecutors need to get out of my court and learn something about law."

The names I gave are whose testimony I would want to get to the truth of the matter but I think all the witnesses that testified gave enough probable cause to look deeper and closer to the dufus. Mueller's Report did that too, but Rudy is the star witness, and his public statements leave little doubt of a bigger scheme. You can't ignore any of it, and call yourself serious about getting at the truth from someone who lies cheats and steals for a living. It's like a right wing bible thumper making a deal with the devil himself.


Get TWO LARGE tanks. And that would be just for me!

LOL, I think an EMT to administer it would be a reasonable thing to have in case I can't move! On further thought that would be pretty stupid for both of us wouldn't it? Be hilarious on RIDICULOUSNESS (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1820166/) though.

Obama lied? NAW! See what I mean?


Not even close dude. I would rather have HC in the WH, and I didn't have to hold my nose and vote for her. That makes me two for two.


but I think all the witnesses that testified gave enough probable cause to look deeper and closer to the dufus. Mueller's Report did that too, That's always the case. If only we could get a few more witnesses. If only we could get Rudy. If only we could have an independent investigation. If only we could bring in witness after witness after witness. At some point you need some direct evidence. You have nothing at this point. Enough is enough.


LOL, I think an EMT to administer it would be a reasonable thing to have in case I can't move! On further thought that would be pretty stupid for both of us wouldn't it? Yeah. Having a cup of coffee is a much better idea.

Yeah. Having a cup of coffee is a much better idea.

Yes I think I'll do that now, it would be more interesting than arguing back and forth

it would be more interesting than arguing back and forth

Very true.

Prosecutors interview witness after witness all the time and have you ever heard of any suspect saying NO to interviews and subpoenas? I mean 17 people smelling a stank cannot and should not be ignored, unless you think the president is above the law.

Plus it bothers me a guy can write a book, but not testify before the congress. His characterization of the whole mess was a drug deal. I want to know how he arrived at that conclusion. Getting an ambassador fired for corruption or whatever as part of a scheme by Rudy and his thug goons working for that Firtash guy is highly suspicious to me? You and repubs don't seem to bothered by that though.

We just need a few more weeks, a few more witnesses, or a few more millions of dollars. Sorry, but enough is enough.

Don't expect dems to listen to you. Moscow Mitch just had a hissy fit because Schumer went public calling for witnesses. This is after MM went on Fox saying he will work with the WH on this impeachmet thing. I'll let you know when enough is enough after we impeach the dufus.

Nearly half the country agrees with me!

Don't expect dems to listen to you. Moscow Mitch just had a hissy fit because Schumer went public calling for witnesses. This is after MM went on Fox saying he will work with the WH on this impeachmet thing. I'll let you know when enough is enough after we impeach the dufus.

Nearly half the country agrees with me!

He will not be convicted and he will likely be reelected, possibly in a landslide. If that happens, then we'll see what you think then.

Pretty optimistic of you, fair enough and a worst case scenerio for me. Losing the House and failing to take the senate, and keeping the dufus is the absolute worst thing for me, and our country. It's a long way off and much can happen between then and now.

I don't see a landslide though, but I've screwed up before. I would hate to even think the dufus and repubs get rewarded for such incompetent feckless behavior no matter what the economy is doing. Thank you Mr. Obama for doing a much better job than some give you credit for.

To keep giving credit to Obama as the savior of our economy is getting long in the tooth, especially when it isn't true: Look at the STOCK MARKET! All of the left's dire predictions of doom and gloom are about the impending GREAT DEPRESSION II are also turning out to be B.S.!

It is very easy to see the difference between the Demos and the Repubs (since that is ALL WE HAVE TO SEE BECAUSE THEY KILL OF 3RD PARTY CONTENDERS!):
1) Demos - Glass is half-empty
2) Repubs - Glass is half-full
3) Demos - The day is Partly Cloudy
4) Repubs - The day is Partly Sunny
5) Demos - Lets concentrate on INVESTIGATIONS
6) Repubs - Lets concentrate on the ECONOMY

Let me know when you find someone who is strong enough to rise to the challenge despite the opposition. Until then independents can make their own decisions with the choices we have. Stop playing victim and making excuses why you don't have what you want. Seems a fertile ground for a 3rd party given both dems and repubs only represent a little more than half the country combined. (https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx)60% to be correct.

Let me know when you find such a person.

Read em and weep. Latest polling data by Quinnipiac shows the following:

In today's poll, 45 percent say President Trump should be impeached and removed from office, while 51 percent don't think so. However, opposition to impeachment has increased since the hearings began. Prior to the start of impeachment hearings, in an October 23 poll, support for impeachment was 48 - 46 percent.

Today, Republicans say President Trump should not be impeached from office 95 - 5 percent, independents say the president should not be impeached and removed from office 58 - 36 percent, while Democrats say President Trump should be impeached and removed from office 86 - 11 percent.

The polling is definitely swinging Trump's way.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=3652

Might want to look at this as well. Congressional job approval rating is now 22% approve and 65% disapprove. The republicans have to be licking their chops.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html

Congressional job approval rating is now 22% approve and 65% disapprove. The republicans have to be licking their chops.
Why would republicans be licking their chops?

Also of note from your link,


On other issues related to impeachment, voters say:

53 - 44 percent that the president abuses the power of his office;
52 percent that the president was pursuing his own personal interest in his dealings with Ukraine to 40 percent that he was pursuing the national interest;
48 - 40 percent that President Trump held up military aid to Ukraine because he wanted the Ukrainian president to announce investigations that would benefit Trump politically;
48 - 44 percent that the president has committed any crimes while in office.


Nearly two thirds, 64 percent, say it is not acceptable for the President of the United States to ask a foreign leader to investigate a political rival, while 23 percent say it is acceptable.

All of your data above is true enough, and yet the majority of Americans are against impeachment. Interesting.

WG, the repubs are licking their chops with the tide of impeachment going against the dems and the favorable ratings for Congress so low, then it all spells success for Trump's reelection and repubs regaining control of the House. However, the winds of politics are fickle.

It would help if elected repubs weren't so afraid of the dufus and would restrain his worst impulses. Like a pit bull owner allowing his mutt to run buck wild through the neighborhood terrorizing everybody and barking all night! That's no good.

They're just following the example of the dems with Obama.

They're just following the example of the dems with Obama.
Please don't deflect but honestly respond to tal's wondering why the elected repubs are "so afraid of the dufus and [don't] restrain his worst impulses."

so afraid of the dufus and [don't] restrain his worst impulses."

His claim is speculative and thus does not merit a response. And it is not deflecting to point out his hypocrisy in wanting repubs to do what he did not do, and will still not do, with Obama.

Hope you are feeling better.

His claim is speculative and thus does not merit a response. And it is not deflecting to point out his hypocrisy in wanting repubs to do what he did not do, and will still not do, with Obama.
If trump isn't reelected in 2020 and if the Senate remains Republican but loses their dear leader, there goes all that influence and money. The party will crash and burn.

Hope you are feeling better.
Thanks for asking. Nope. I hope my hematologist will be able to snap me out of this horrible sludgy feeling soon.

His claim is speculative and thus does not merit a response. And it is not deflecting to point out his hypocrisy in wanting repubs to do what he did not do, and will still not do, with Obama.

Hope you are feeling better.

There is no comparison between the words, actions, and behaviors of Obama and the dufus. Such a comparison only makes the dufus look worse. Obama did lose the House and senate, and so far the dufus lost the House and we will see about the rest. However the dems will do their job, and the senate will do theirs even though we sort of know they won't. Personally, I don't care what repubs do in the senate...that's on them, and the chips will fall where they fall. Should be interesting though.

There is no comparison between the words, actions, and behaviors of Obama and the dufus. Such a comparison only makes the dufus look worse. Obama did lose the House and senate, and so far the dufus lost the House and we will see about the rest. However the dems will do their job, and the senate will do theirs even though we sort of know they won't. Personally, I don't care what repubs do in the senate...that's on them, and the chips will fall where they fall. Should be interesting though.

Nah, more important fish to fry than Trump and have you noticed, Xi, Kim and Khomeini are quiet, it is as though there is a hushed silence as they if don't add to Trump's burdens

They're probably watching CNN like everybody else to see if the dufus gets dumped!

There is no comparison between the words, actions, and behaviors of Obama and the dufus.

If it makes you feel better to believe that, then go for it, but I remember being told you could keep your doctor and your coverage under Obamacare until..Surprise! Not the case! Of being told by Obama in the Rose Garden that the Benghazi disaster was an act of terror, only to be told two weeks later that it was due to an offensive video. And on and on it went.


If trump isn't reelected in 2020 and if the Senate remains Republican but loses their dear leader, there goes all that influence and money. The party will crash and burn. That is very true. On the other hand, if Trump wins big, and the repubs reclaim the House, then the dems will have crashed and burned. Stay tuned!

If it makes you feel better to believe that, then go for it, but I remember being told you could keep your doctor and your coverage under Obamacare until..Surprise! Not the case!
My son has.


On the other hand, if Trump wins big, and the repubs reclaim the House, then the dems will have crashed and burned. Stay tuned!
The opposite is more likely.

Demos just sealed their fate tonight: Trump won a 2nd term tonight.....the Republicans also won the House......Demos are going to pay a heavy and high price for opting to be stupid by voting for Impeachment.

My son has. Then he is one of the privileged few. It's amazing how far you will go to defend your beloved pres.



The opposite is more likely. Not according to polls.

Then he is one of the privileged few. It's amazing how far you will go to defend your beloved pres.
Am not defending anyone. It's a simple fact.

Not according to polls.
I'm a registered Republican. And I don't say endearing things about Obama.

Ok the circus moves into centre ring, assemble the clowns, call up the lion tamer, I want to see the wire walking act

If it makes you feel better to believe that, then go for it, but I remember being told you could keep your doctor and your coverage under Obamacare until..Surprise! Not the case! Of being told by Obama in the Rose Garden that the Benghazi disaster was an act of terror, only to be told two weeks later that it was due to an offensive video. And on and on it went.

That is very true. On the other hand, if Trump wins big, and the repubs reclaim the House, then the dems will have crashed and burned. Stay tuned!

You should look that up as many embassies around the world had unrest and protests not just Benghazi. and there were many reasons for them. Funny you keep harping on that but not a peep on those shooting here in malls schools and military bases. The whole world is rather a mess right now, and everybody is traumatized at this crazy stuff.

As for Obama care which was nothing more than an expansion of Medicare to include more people who are essentially poor or working poor, that's become quite popular especially some of the provisions. Some people did keep their doctors, some doctors opted out by excluding some insurance carriers, and states are eliminating those cheap fly by night insurance plans that cover nothing when you need it, and that's not a bad thing either. Heck dude most working people can't afford to be sick nowadays as costs have gone through the roof in case you haven't noticed and we as a country are much older.

LOL we are still waiting for the great plan the dufus has been promising but like the repeal repubs NADA! Not a peep from you dufusites about that. I get it, you guys got nothing, except tax cuts for rich guys so stop hollering when somebody else's ideas and efforts is less than perfect.


Demos just sealed their fate tonight: Trump won a 2nd term tonight.....the Republicans also won the House......Demos are going to pay a heavy and high price for opting to be stupid by voting for Impeachment.

I think it's about time somebody tried to reign in this lying cheating bully, since repubs are way to scared to do squat and let him run buck wild like he was Jesus or something. The election is a long way out, and we still have to see if repubs find their balls. You dream big I give you that.

I'm a little confused, is the the end of the beginning, or the beginning of the end?

You should look that up as many embassies around the world had unrest and protests not just Benghazi. and there were many reasons for them. Funny you keep harping on that but not a peep on those shooting here in malls schools and military bases. The whole world is rather a mess right now, and everybody is traumatized at this crazy stuff.

Did Obama lie about all of that as well?

If you guys had ever had even a peep of protests about Obama then your complaints here would make more sense. The problem just boils down to, "I hate Donald Trump!"

The Benghazi debacle was PLANNED BY OBAMA AND COMPANY but it didn't go as planned: When Obama was campaigning before his first election, he had made mention of his desire to release the terrorist bastard "BLIND SHIEK" but the blowback from this comment was such that he never breathed of it again.....so he went about it a different way: He found the most passive man he could and made him an Ambassador to the NEW Libya, Post ARAB SPRING (another one of his plans)…..his intentions were to permit this U.S. Ambassador to be captured by radical extremist and to then "TRADE/EXCHANGE" the BLIND SHIEK for the U.S. Ambassador: This way, he would be able to free his BLIND SHIEK and his hands would be clean. His miscalculation was that he never thought that this passive U.S. Ambassador to Libya would actually fight to the death....this is the real coverup with the Benghazi scandal: HC and Obama got away with murder!

Good Morning my loony fringe friends, what a great day for an Impeachment of the most corrupt president since Nixon. Looks like we may have to impeach Moscow Mitch first before we can dump the dufus as he has promised to make sure the fix is in and the trial is rigged. Now I know you guys don't mind that, just like you don't mind anything the dufus does or says as long as he moves the right wing agenda forward at whatever price you have to pay him. You can watch as MM cries his eyes out as he explains the fringe strategy on CSpan and it's a doozy you wingers will love with your coffee and cakes. Looks like we all will have a great day as we await the coming of Santa Claus and his bag of toys and debts for us to play with as the New Year approaches. Promises to be the year of the crap hits the fan. So I hope you're as grateful as I am to watch the exploding heads of your favorite political foes and wonder how they can do that every day on camera.

Cancel the Netflix but stock up on the popcorn, and enjoy the circus, brought to you free by the dufus TV, and it's GOP affiliates.

PS

No remotes necessary because it will be on every channel so you won't miss a minute of elephants and kangaroos dancing in your living room.

PSS

FREE MAGA hats only an arm and a leg while supplies last.

the most corrupt president since Nixon

That's true so long, of course, as you don't count Clinton and Obama.

I think they plan on spending about two minutes of the trial showing the "evidence" of Trump's wrongdoing. You know, all of the second and third hand accounts of people overhearing what someone's friend told their father about what they think Trump might have meant. After that, the dems will have two days to chant in unison, "We hate Trump for beating our darling Hillary." Eventually the charges will be voted down and the American people will place the entire democrat party in the drawer marked "loony bin", and it will all finally be over. Maybe then they can pass a flat tax so Tal and the rest of us can finally start paying our fair share rather than having a tax system where the upper 20% is expected to pay about 85% and the bottom 50% get a free ride. Maybe they can even engage in the hard work of figuring out how to balance the budget and put the Social Security System back on firm ground. It would be nice to see them actually doing something useful and productive.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only ones hollering Obama or HC's names are you right wing loony fringers. Liberals only chant since 2016 is DUMP the Dufus!

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only ones hollering Obama or HC's names are you right wing loony fringers.

Yes, just like the only ones hollering about Trump are you left wing loony fringers. So what's your point? Are you saying it's really all just about politics? It would be nice to hear you finally admit that.

This is America and politics is as much a part of life as apple pie. APPLE PIE hot and fresh out of the oven aromaticly filling your kitchen and home with those most savory scents that water your mouth and glaze your eyes and make your tummy go yummy yummy in anticipation of a palate pleasing treat!

8O Forgive my distraction. For now that APPLE PIE is my point.

For now that APPLE PIE is my point.

I'll be there in about thirty minutes.

Did I mention the ice cream that goes with it? Call me FAT, like I care.

I'll stop laughing in about ten minutes!!

Hate to stop the fun, but this just in. (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/vladimir-putin-endorses-trump-russia-reelection-2020.html)


"President Trump has worked hard to hold key elements of his electoral coalition, and today his campaign received a major though expected boost when Russian president Vladimir Putin announced his support. “I don’t think Trump will be voted out of power on made-up charges,” the Russian strongman told (https://www.wsj.com/articles/putin-criticizes-democrats-for-impeaching-trump-11576759602?emailToken=3f8ab5d8a75f699e03322563119 d736bkHMXeGozDPRjthhxa3kvSxt6M3tqV1YdMAoG07o3PvWgj kyN3Iu3Jy11gPb7Qfk5XuSuxbizNgYzshsYmdliOLiIDq1huaM/T9zWEIVKfe0%3D&reflink=article_copyURL_share) reporters in Moscow Thursday. “Democrats lost the last election, and now they want to win by other means.” Putin effectively runs a pro-Trump super-PAC. In 2016, his government developed a strong preference for Trump’s election, which it supported through targeted social media, a spattering of rallies and, most effectively, an email-hacking operation against his opposition. A close ally of Putin’s has reportedly financed (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/report-parnas-russia-ukraine-trump-impeachment-giuliani-money.html) efforts by Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani to dig up dirt on Joe Biden, Trump’s leading opponent at the moment."

For added background look up Dmitry Firtash.

........So?

So following the money Vlad is paying Rudy's goon squad to gather dirt on the dufus's opponents. They both said they worked for Rudy though, and Rudy is getting paid by whom?

It's a whodunit you love so much, who did which with what to whom?

So following the money

What money? As is almost always the case, you don't seem to understand that Tal, or Pelosi, or Schumer alleging that something has happened does not even come close to proving it. So if you can ID some money, then we'll follow it.

Follow Rudy's MONEY!

Oh. I forgot. All those "ghost" witnesses include Rudy.

They aren't ghost witnesses, they are prohibited by the dufus from testifying. It's one of the Article II impeachment charges. Yes Rudy and his stooges are on MY list as well as law enforcements.

The point is that you are appealing to witnesses when you have no idea what they know or would say. They are basically "ghosts" in that regard. You would be laughed out of town in any court in America with an approach like that. It's just wishful thinking prompted by an extreme hatred of all things Trump.

Which raises an interesting point. Laying aside for a moment his big mouth, what is it about Trump that you dislike so intensely? I specifically mean from the perspective of government policy.

He LIES, CHEATS AND STEALS, the very basis of immorality by anyones standard. Add to that badmouthing ordinary people like gold star families, careless wanton abuse of desperate men women and children fleeing tyranny and death, and belittling dead people is over the top and way out of bounds and not a role model or even aleader as he tears down people and institions of decency and security by parroting a russians thugs talking points to assuage his own bad rotten behavior. I tell you that Helsinki meeting standing next to Putin should have turned the stomach of every American not just some. Even today moral leaders are waking up.
(https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html)
As far as government policies of the dufus, I express that OFTEN everyday I post. Is it not logical for a trial to have witnesses? Is it not logical that if your own peeps could clear this up he would want them under oath to do so? In the same breadth you claim NO EVIDENCE you also say NO more witnesses needed, while hiding the main ones from public scrutiny. We should have the benefit of facts they can bring to make a reasonable decision shouldn't we?

What is he afraid of? What could he be hiding?

Tell me if you can, what is the point of impeachment if the house doesn't send the articles to the senate

They will but what's the hurry since it is the holiday season? Why isn't waiting until they return to session not sufficent? Let the dufus wait and sweat it out and repubs can spin until then. The senate hasn't even agreed on the rules of the trial yet even though Moscow Mitch and Senator Graham have said they would not be impartial as the oath the will take for the trial requires.

I hope they wait a long time. They already have looked completely foolish in the so called "investigation". Now they can look even more foolish by refusing to send the articles of impeachment on the ridiculous theory that Nancy P should be able to tell the Senate how to do their business. Rather amazingly, they have made Trump look like the mature one, and that's not easy to do.

You are speaking just for yourself and the right wing loonies aren't you?

Well tal he might be right

He is right Clete, far, far right!

You are speaking just for yourself and the right wing loonies aren't you? Just for me, but if we can regain the House, then you'll see even more progress being made.

Give it up jl, you know your people won't put absolute power in anyone's hands

Give it up jl, you know your people won't put absolute power in anyone's hands

They did pretty good with the dufus making him king of repubs who will chop off the heads of anyone who crosses him.


Just for me, but if we can regain the House, then you'll see even more progress being made.

What if you lose the senate, or the WH? Or both?

They did pretty good with the dufus making him king of repubs who will chop off the heads of anyone who crosses him.



What if you lose the senate, or the WH? Or both?

Trump has stumbled along because the party isn't with him, doubtful he is a true republican just a pelican. he couldn't get major things he wanted to do done so he isn't king of anything he doesn't own

Give it up jl, you know your people won't put absolute power in anyone's hands You mean like happened in 2008 and 2016?

Trump has stumbled along because the party isn't with him, doubtful he is a true republican just a pelican. he couldn't get major things he wanted to do done so he isn't king of anything he doesn't own

Repubs love him, or fear what he can do to them, but they have a majority, good to confirm people to positions but legislating is a different story. Putting in conservative judges and cutting rich guy taxes while the economy is good at least has him a king in some peoples mind and keeps them in his corner no matter what else he does that's immoral or illegal, (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-citing-white-house-emails-renew-calls-for-impeachment-witnesses/ar-BBYfL3Y?ocid=spartanntp) as we just find out more about covering his tracks (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/21/us/politics/white-house-pentagon-ukraine-aid.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) to his worst words, actions, and behavior.


You mean like happened in 2008 and 2016?

Why stop there? Look what happened in 2010 and 2018.

If he does things which are illegal or immoral, he would just be following the example of your beloved Mr. Obama.

No, he would be doing what he has always done, lie, cheat, steal, bully, and talk a bunch of inappropriate crap. Just being himself.

No, he would be doing what he has always done, lie, cheat, steal, bully, and talk a bunch of inappropriate crap. Like I said, he would be following the example of Mr. Obama.

You always fall back on that blame Obama, blame the libs, blame the dems, when you have no answers, and refuse to take responsibility for your own actions. Just holler BS and claim it's true huh!

Still going at it I see.

Wow! impeaching Trump, who knew...that'll teach em (And anybody else who is an outsider).

What a bunch of nonsense.

You always fall back on that blame Obama, blame the libs, blame the dems, when you have no answers, and refuse to take responsibility for your own actions. Just holler BS and claim it's true huh! I'm not blaming Obama. I'm simply pointing out that you were perfectly willing to accept behaviors with him that you have fits over with Trump. As to my actions, I am completely willing to take responsibility.

The only thing Obama and the dufus have in common is where they live and the office they hold. Keep trying to elevate a lying cheating immoral man to the level of a REAL moral man to make yourself and your choice more palatable to yourself. More will be revealed and it will get way past the point of denial for your side.

Keep trying to elevate a lying cheating immoralman to the level of a REAL moral man to make yourself and your choice more palatable to yourself. The three major differences between them are: 1. Trump appoints fed judges who actually believe in the rule of law. 2. Trump has a thriving economy. 3. Obama loved abortion.

Ah, Abortion, lets go with that one.

Did you know God became a fetus. Tell me, where does life began?

The three major differences between them are: 1. Trump appoints fed judges who actually believe in the rule of law. 2. Trump has a thriving economy. 3. Obama loved abortion.

LOL yes he has a good economy and plenty of judicial appointments, but the major difference between the dufus and Obama is and will always be the dufus is being IMPEACHED, in his first term.

By a bunch of loony House dems with no evidence of wrong doing.

No, no Pelosi, says it's cuz he a messing with the Constitution. Nobody
messes with Pelosi's Constitution!

I suppose that's all the dufusites can say is no evidence, no collusion, no obstruction, no quid pro quo, no crime, and NO legs to stand on. That doesn't make it so nor is it an excuse to accept whatever words and actions or behavior that are being called to account.

Still waiting on the names of those witnesses who testified they actually witnesses a crime. You hit the nail on the head. "No evidence, no collusion, no obstruction, no quid pro quo, no crime, and NO legs to stand on." Yep. The case against Trump has no legs to stand on. Glad to note that you can now see that!!!

LOL, there may be enough evidence to impeach the dufus AGAIN. I linked you the specific law the dufus broke a while back, and now we have proof that it was intentional to not notify the congress (https://www.huffpost.com/entry/email-white-house-ukraine-aid-congress-call-trump-zelensky_n_5dfe8757e4b0843d35fcf649)when holding up funding vetted, passed, and signed as REQUIRED BY LAW. Just add it to the rest of the evidence and testimony repubs and you have been denying, dismissing, and trying your darnedest to ignore. Snark and sarcasm won't work. It never has, as who really believes you, repubs, or the dufus?

Don't worry the dems will have those names for you soon.

I linked you the specific law the dufus broke a while back, and now we have proof that it was intentional to not notify the congress when holding up funding vetted, passed, and signed as REQUIRED BY LAW. So should we file charges against Joe Biden? He is on tape as saying he did the same thing with Ukraine. Are you saying he should never be considered for the office of President, or do you selectively apply your laws only to Trump?

Honestly, I hope the dems are stupid enough to impeach again. The American people are already coming down on the side of Trump since they can see through this whole circus. It would make it even more likely that conservatives can regain the House.

Still waiting for the name of even one witness who testified to having first hand knowledge of the pres breaking a law.

What a great idea. File charges against the Bidens and Burisma and anybody else you think is breaking the law, instead of the lazy cowards way of insinuation.

It's entirely possible that as more is revealed (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/opinions-could-democrats-impeach-trump-twice-they-might-have-to/ar-BBYjbFD?ocid=msn360)of the dufus antics if they break the law, we may have to add to the charges. As to the American people they have already decided they want to hear ALL the evidence, and even divided along party lines I think if the dufus continues to with hold and hide it from us, it will bite him in the butt, and endanger his senate support and even better cost the repubs the senate.

Why do you keep asking for names? The testimony of all the witnesses points to some shady stuff by itself by the dufus and Rudy and his criminal cabal employed by the international criminal Firtash. Now if the dufus had any evidence of his innocence one would think he would have presented it to make dems charges just go away. Just answer me why he hasn't done that? Why are repubs not even curious about that? Circle January 3rd on the calendar when the court issue a ruling on if the dufusites can testify, (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-impeachment-witnesses-idUSKBN1XY093) as the senate gets ready for the impeachment trial.

I know we both have our hopes of outcomes, but we still have to see how the process plays out.

What a great idea. File charges against the Bidens
So you agree that we should file charges against Joe Biden for absolutely admitting that he withheld aid designated for Ukraine?


It's entirely possible that as more is revealed of the dufus antics if they break the law, we may have to add to the charges. Yeah. It's also entirely possible that a Martian spaceship might land and destroy New York City. What a wonderful fantasy world you must live in


Why do you keep asking for names? The testimony of all the witnesses points to some shady stuff by itself by the dufus and Rudy and his criminal cabal employed by the international criminal Firtash. I keep asking for names to point out the plain and clear fact that you don't have any.


Now if the dufus had any evidence of his innocence one would think he would have presented it to make dems charges just go away. Just answer me why he hasn't done that? Because he's not stupid enough to believe that he has even the slightest responsibility to establish his innocence. That's not how our system of justice works.

So you agree that we should file charges against Joe Biden for absolutely admitting that he withheld aid designated for Ukraine?

No I don't agree, but I dare you repubs to bring forth charges! This subject has been debunked as FALSE already, and was just a talking point for the right wing loonies that don't know better.


Yeah. It's also entirely possible that a Martian spaceship might land and destroy New York City. What a wonderful fantasy world you must live in

Don't know about the Martian invasion but the odds more dufus wrongdoing will come to light is a good bet.


I keep asking for names to point out the plain and clear fact that you don't have any.

Pretty dumb to ask for names since first hand knowledge testimony is rather formidable, the jails are full of those with 2nd hand testimony and 17 people testifying to the same FACTS are very formidable. You can't declare NO evidence while you HIDE evidence. Yes that's also illegal. Thought you knew.


Because he's not stupid enough to believe that he has even the slightest responsibility to establish his innocence. That's not how our system of justice works.

That's true but obstructing a lawful investigation is an impeachable offense, and hiding evidence is a crime. Ignorance of the law is no excuse for you or anyone else to make false statements, and I don't blame the dufus for not being questioned under oath. Our justice system works by calling witnesses, so lets call them.

No I don't agree, but I dare you repubs to bring forth charges! This subject has been debunked as FALSE already, and was just a talking point for the right wing loonies that don't know better.Why not bring charges against Joe? He is on video bragging about withholding funds appropriated by congress, and you say that is a crime. Why not bring charges? Because he's a dem?


Pretty dumb to ask for names since first hand knowledge testimony is rather formidable, the jails are full of those with 2nd hand testimony and 17 people testifying to the same FACTS are very formidable. You can't declare NO evidence while you HIDE evidence. Yes that's also illegal. Thought you knew. Actually, second hand testimony is not allowed in court, and opinions about what a person thinks might have happened is also not allowed. So no, people are not in jail because of second hand testimony. 17 people testifying to "facts" is meaningless unless those people have evidence of a crime. Those 17 people had no evidence. Too bad.

The second round of the demonrat circus will begin when ringmistress pelosi attempts to tame the lion

The second round of the demonrat circus will begin when ringmistress pelosi attempts to tame the lionYep. Good description of this circus.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Rfq8hNWoWd-trSpR2E7VVwHaDt&w=286&h=150&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.45&pid=3.1&rm=2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pennywise&id=1DAEB5F8325AB3D277C887CDBC4173502D4FFC4E&FORM=IQFRBA)

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Rfq8hNWoWd-trSpR2E7VVwHaDt&w=286&h=150&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=1.45&pid=3.1&rm=2 (https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=pennywise&id=1DAEB5F8325AB3D277C887CDBC4173502D4FFC4E&FORM=IQFRBA)

Great pics of Pelosi!

Arnt they

I thought they were perfect pictures of the dufus's true nature, an evil clown.

I thought they were perfect pictures of the dufus's true nature, an evil clown.

You confuse Trump with the joker

Depends on which hat he puts on. Doesn't matter, the confusion stops once he opens his big fat mouth, and watch the mice scurrying about trying not to get eaten by the swamp critters he surrounds himself with.

Of course we have a lighter side of things.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBY5lCX.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBY5hyH.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBY7TVf.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f&x=1135&y=750

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBYcrHE.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BBYckoh.img?h=416&w=624&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

Your cartoons fit perfectly into the comic book justice practiced by Pelosi and her herd.

Your cartoons fit perfectly into the comic book justice practiced by Pelosi and her herd.
So far she's doing everything correctly as per the U.S. civics class I had in high school.

So far she's doing everything correctly as per the U.S. civics class I had in high school.Your civics class taught you that the Speaker of the House was supposed to hold on to articles of impeachment while she tried to manipulate the Senate into doing things her way? Wow. What a civics class that must have been.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

I didn't notice a mention of the SOTH in that clause.

Your civics class taught you that the Speaker of the House was supposed to hold on to articles of impeachment while she tried to manipulate the Senate into doing things her way?
That's not what's happening.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
Um, and what's ol' Moscow Mitch up to meanwhile? Hmm.... (Good thing Nancy has five kids and understands sneakiness and brattiness.)

Your civics class taught you that the Speaker of the House was supposed to hold on to articles of impeachment while she tried to manipulate the Senate into doing things her way? Wow. What a civics class that must have been.

The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

I didn't notice a mention of the SOTH in that clause.

Maybe she would have to be so cautious if two repubs the majority leader being one who publicly said not only that they would honor their oath to be impartial, but also work in lockstep with the WH. Ever see a jury work with defendants before while your blasting the speaker but ignoring the sycophants?

At least Murkowski stood up to express her disturbance at those antics.

said not only that they would honor their oath to be impartial, but also work in lockstep with the WHThat might be true if they had taken such an oath. I don't think that's the case. This is a political event, and they, just like Pelosi, are behaving in a political manner. How many dozens of your beloved dems in the House declared Trump guilty before the hearings even started and the pitiful excuses that passed for "evidence" were presented? Rather strangely, you never protested about that. You see? It's all about politics and the "We hate Trump" crowd.

No secret that I think the dems have a great case, and the senate DOES take an oath to be impartial once they are sworn in by the cheif justice, unlike the house who takes no oath except to protect the constitution from enemies from without and within when they join congress just like everybody in the government.

Obviously we differ on investigations and evidence among many things. It's all good. Yes it's politics on that we do agree.

Except that those senators have not yet taken any oath, so they have no oath to honor at this point. Besides, how many democrat senators have said they believe Trump to be guilty? Have you been complaining about them?

https://www.newsweek.com/mitch-mcconnell-biased-so-every-democrat-1479388

You're probably right, all the senators will have a bias one way or another but we proceed with the process. I remember after Nixons landslide victory he was impeached without much repub support until the evidence changed almost everybody's mind and repubs told him so. He resigned. We'll see what happens brudda.

until the evidence changed almost everybody's mind Now there's a great idea. Maybe the dems should try presenting some real evidence.

That's what the trial is for.......................................!

No it's not. The House is responsible for investigating allegations and determining if the evidence warrants a trial. The Senate is only responsible for evaluating the evidence the House has uncovered. That being the case, the dems are in for a long ride.

So are Moscow Mitch and repubs despite the spin. I don't think either side gets through this unscathed.

No one gets out of a fight unscathed Tal, but you know I think the ones who have been mauled the most are the demonrats, they have demonstrated how shallow they are and things have been uncovered they would rather not be known

Like what? That the private attorney for the dufus was also mucking about in Venezuela as well as the Ukraine and our government knew nothing about it? Or the majority leader Moscow Mitch was going around his own government cutting deals with Russian oligharchs? You say dems are shallow for breaking up and exposing the dufus and his sycophants scandalous corruption?

Like what? That the private attorney for the dufus was also mucking about in Venezuela as well as the Ukraine and our government knew nothing about it? Or the majority leader Moscow Mitch was going around his own government cutting deals with Russian oligharchs? You say dems are shallow for breaking up and exposing the dufus and his sycophants scandalous corruption?

You ignore that Biden was interfering in legal process in another country just because Trump made it an issue

The smoke must be getting to you clete if you believe a word the dufus says. That's not good.

I try to take abalanced view Tal and to use the current position where there is smoke there is fire and fire burns indiscriminately

You can't take a balance view with our dufus. Whether you fact check, or follow the money, you get a lying cheater. This whole impeachment deal is about his lying and cheating. It's all he knows and conservatives think that's okay.

I don't know of anyone better at lying and cheating than HC was. And the group now contending for the dem nomination is the biggest collection of incompetents I've ever seen. When Liz Warren and Bernie Sanders are serious considerations, then you know you're in trouble. So if you want to complain about Trump, then you need to nominate an "anti-Trump". Good luck with that one.

I certainly like your optimism in the face of the current fact that your elected choice is a crook of the worst kind and shall forever carry that label of being impeached in his first term. I know no matter what the evidence is against him his sycophants say it's not enough or is a lie, but don't all crooks say that? Nixon did for sure. That's okay, we haven't started presenting the case with the world watching as we move into a brand new decade and the court seems poised to rule on a few subpoenas, and we may have a few more witnesses to hear from, you know the ones that hide behind the dufus.

Seems if you had witnesses that would clear you or back up your side they would have been heard from by now but we shall see what happens. So you just keep hollering Hillary, and we will keep hollering dufus, and see who gets got!

shall forever carry that label of being impeached in his first term.
Considering who did the impeaching, I would suggest he wear it as a badge of honor.


. I know no matter what the evidence is against himStill waiting on those names.


Seems if you had witnesses that would clear you or back up your side they would have been heard from by nowThank goodness we do not operate by that gosh awful and warped view of justice. Of course you do have the Ukrainian PM and Foreign Minister both saying there was no quid pro quo. One of your beloved witnesses actually said that Trump had told him months ago there was no guid pro quo. But still, you do have all those witnesses saying they had first hand knowledge of criminal activ....No wait. You don't have those witnesses, do you? CASE DISMISSED!!


So you just keep hollering Hillary, and we will keep hollering dufus, and see who gets got!To be sure. The only thing to see in the future will be if there are any dem senators who will do the honorable thing and admit that there is not sufficient evidence to impeach a sitting president of the United States.

The impeachment is a done deal. It will be forever part of his legacy.

To be sure. The only thing to see in the future will be if there are any dem senators who will do the honorable thing and admit that there is not sufficient evidence to impeach a sitting president of the United States. From JL.

That's not how it works. He was IMPEACHED. Now CONVICTING him, is another matter. Or NOT convicting him or anything in between. That's what trials are about. No president has ever been removed in our history...YET! Nixon resigned, Johnson not convicted, Clinton convicted but not removed. He lost his law license though.

Maybe the dufus won't be convicted but forced to wear a muzzle, have his twitter account closed, have his phone taken away, or some other thing but his impeachment sticks forever like I and WG have said.

Maybe the dufus won't be convicted but forced to wear a muzzle, have his twitter account closed, have his phone taken away, or some other thing but his impeachment sticks forever like I and WG have said.That's true. The question concerns who should bear the shame, Trump or the House dems. You know what I think.

That's true. The question concerns who should bear the shame, Trump or the House dems. You know what I think.
Shame? Impeached tRump bears the shame.

He bears no shame. The shame falls on the feckless House dems who had decided, only days after his election, to try and remove him through impeachment. It is not going to work, and could very well backfire on the dems as the American people watch this political circus proceed. It is purely political and has nothing to do with justice.

He bears no shame. The shame falls on the feckless House dems who had decided, only days after his election, to try and remove him through impeachment. It is not going to work, and could very well backfire on the dems as the American people watch this political circus proceed. It is purely political and has nothing to do with justice.
It has everything to do with his unlawful behavior as a president.

It has everything to do with his unlawful behavior as a president.

He stands accused but not convicted but the presumption of innocence doesn't apply when tried in the court of public opinion, there he is presumed guilty of any accusation and it seems it doesn't apply when political opinions supplant evidence

It has everything to do with his unlawful behavior as a president.
If you have evidence of that, then call the House dems immediately. They couldn't find any. As I've been saying, I'm waiting on the name(s).

If you have evidence of that, then call the House dems immediately. They couldn't find any. As I've been saying, I'm waiting on the name(s).
Oh, they have witnesses but trump says they can't testify. Wonder why....

Oh, they have witnesses but trump says they can't testify. Wonder why....

probably because they know nothing but hearsay gossip at the watercooler isn't evidence

probably because they know nothing but hearsay gossip at the watercooler isn't evidence
Or ...they know something that will convict him.

Oh, they have witnesses but trump says they can't testify.

Take that suggestion into any court of law and see how far it gets you. "Your Honor, we know the defendant is guilty because of some things that some people who have not testified are possibly going to say." Good grief. Yet another appearance of the "We hate Trump" syndrome.

Take that suggestion into any court of law and see how far it gets you. "Your Honor, we know the defendant is guilty because of some things that some people who have not testified are possibly going to say." Good grief. Yet another appearance of the "We hate Trump" syndrome.
"In a letter (https://twitter.com/SenSchumer/status/1209147896089731072?s=20) sent Monday to all 99 of his chamber colleagues, Schumer continued to outline his case for why they need specific documents and testimony from certain witnesses who were directed by the White House not to comply with the House's impeachment inquiry."

"Until Pelosi transmits the impeachment articles to the Senate, a trial cannot begin.
She has said she'll transfer the articles once McConnell can assure a "fair trial" will take place by outlining the rules for witnesses before it commences."

https://www.newsweek.com/whats-next-donald-trumps-impeachment-stalemate-persists-over-trial-witnesses-1478867

"Until Pelosi transmits the impeachment articles to the Senate, a trial cannot begin.
She has said she'll transfer the articles once McConnell can assure a "fair trial" will take place by outlining the rules for witnesses before it commences." Show me where in the Constitution it gives the SOTH any authority to decide how an impeachment trial will precede in the Senate.

It's just dirty, stinkin politics. In the meantime, we spend borrowed money like drunken sailors. Pitiful.

Show me where in the Constitution it gives the SOTH any authority to decide how an impeachment trial will precede in the Senate.

It's just dirty, stinkin politics. In the meantime, we spend borrowed money like drunken sailors. Pitiful.
Moscow Mitch is required by the Constitution to assure a fair trial.

Ah, you want an unfair trial! I get it!

Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine) said last week that (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/sen-lisa-murkowski-shes-disturbed-mcconnells-comments-white/story?id=67925820) she was "disturbed" to hear McConnell say he would work in "total coordination" with the president’s defense team.

Moscow Mitch is required by the Constitution to assure a fair trial.No, he's actually not. A trial, yes, but it is never said that it must be fair. "The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present."

And if you are really concerned with fairness, which I'm not sure that you are, you would have already spoken up about the kangaroo court which went on in the House.

And again, show me where in the Constitution it gives the SOTH any authority to decide how an impeachment trial will precede in the Senate.

This is just all about a hatred of Trump. Dems were calling for his impeachment within weeks of his election for supposedly accepting help from Russia. When that fell on its face, they they went on to quid pro quo. When that fell on its face, they ended up with the nonsense they now have. It's pitiful.

It's pitiful.

pitiful it may be but it is politics. no one said it had to be fair, honest or even truthful

Everybody in politics says it's fair and honest what they're doing. Let's not forget that in 2018 Americans voted enough repubs out and dems into the House to reduce the dufus and repubs power in our government. Fair or not, honest or not, the dufus was impeached, and it doesn't matter what repubs and his sycophants say about it, as they did the Mueller Report that went way above the publics head, but still laid out a roadmap of wrong doing that has lead to the dufus being impeached because he was too dumb to be grateful that he dodged a bullet, and kept engaging in unlawful acts mainly abuse of power with the Ukraine debacle, and obstructing the congress in it's oversight duties concerning that debacle.

He basically impeached himself since he had no answers for any of his actions that could pass the smell test. If you were holding your nose you missed all that, and made the huge mistake of listening to the lies of the dufus and his sycophants. So while the dufus does the Russian's business, which you righties ignore and dismiss, Moscow Mitch and the senate are put front and center of organizing a trail that looks fair, and honest.

Yeah it is all about the politics in this election year, and everybody is watching what happens next. What more could you ask for as we start a new decade! 8D

Still waiting on that name. Without that, you only have baseless accusations based on Trump hatred.

The testimony of 17 people saying basically the same thing is compelling enough in any court of law in the land. Always has been, always will be. Certainly enough to impeach and bring charges. You should have figured that out with all the charges the dufus faced before he became president.

Why are you so surprised that this pattern continues?

The testimony of 17 people saying basically the same thing is compelling enough in any court of law in the land.But that's your whole problem. You had seventeen people all saying, "I have no direct knowledge of any wrong-doing on the part of the president." Now guess what that will get you in any court of law. "Case dismissed!"

That's why you cannot provide a single name of a witness who had first hand knowledge of anything significant. Now you did have both the PM and Foreign Minister of Ukraine saying there was no quid pro quo. You also had a witness saying that Trump directly told him the same thing. So yeah, you have no case to speak of. Trump Derangement Syndrome. That's why Pelosi seems so afraid to give the "case" to the Senate. She knows they have nothing. The American people know they have nothing. I know they have nothing, and I suspect you know the same thing.

That's not the way the law works anywhere dude. If 15 people say they thought they saw you J walking then the cops can ask you if you were. If the cops don't believe you, then they investigate, like find evidence or such. Well we have that evidence in the form of how the dufus conducted himself and I have cited he broke the Impound Acts law. He did not notify the congress of changes he made to an appropriation that HE signed into law. That's the abuse of power charge dude, plain and simple for you.

Not allowing the House to investigate, by testimony or documents is the obstruction of congress charge, plain and simple even for you loonies to understand. As we move to the TRIAL phase the senate will vote on the structure and rules of that trail no different than has been done before. It really is that simple JL no matter the gobble de goop you keep trying to throw at us that at this point is irrelevant.

Those names you wait for and evidence presented are the province of the senate trial now since the Impeach part has been DONE! You are perfectly entitled to your opinion and rhetoric, but it's the lawful process that goes forward without you, no matter what the outcome. The House never had to prove anything to bring charges, NO prosecutor ever does, as very different to charge than convict, and so we await the next steps in the process.

See how simple that is? Sorry if you can't wait to get those names and maybe you never will but obviously the law has moved past that point and the process continues. I know politics at play with both sides trying to make their points for the public and their own agendas.

That's not the way the law works anywhere dude. If 15 people say they thought they saw you J walking then the cops can ask you if you were.Actually, that's how it works everywhere. Try getting on the witness stand and saying you THOUGHT you saw someone do something. Your testimony will be completely discredited. This has nothing to do with a cop asking you something, but if he did, guess what? You don't have to answer. You are not responsible to demonstrate your own guilt. You need to learn a few things about law.

Honestly Tal, you have no idea what you're talking about. It is the House's job to investigate. They can then present their evidence to the Senate who rules on it. The Senate is not there to investigate. We have gone through this for months and months. Millions of dollars have been spent. The money in contention was paid to Ukraine. Trump did the same thing Biden did and not one virtuous dem complained about that, so you just don't have a case. The problem is that dems hate Trump and are prepared to do anything to get him out of office. It's just stinkin politics.

There you go ignore facts again. The House has impeached and sets the stage for a trial where they present the evidence to the senate. We all know the senate has noting else to do but hear it, no investigations by them is needed. Done deal, so yes as a pretrial protocal the senators must agree on the rules by which the trial should be conducted on. That's where we are at.

What part of that is it you are not understanding?

There you go ignore facts again. The House has impeached and sets the stage for a trial where they present the evidence to the senate. We all know the senate has noting else to do but hear it, no investigations by them is needed. Done deal, so yes as a pretrial protocal the senators must agree on the rules by which the trial should be conducted on. That's where we are at.Fair enough, but that's the core of my question. Give me the name of even one witness who has first hand knowledge of the president's guilt and we'll have something to talk about. You keep bringing up the non-witnesses and what you think they might know. You say the Senate has "nothing else to do but hear it," so that being the case, all they can hear is what the House has now. That's basically next to nothing.

That's where we disagree greatly in what has already been testified to and documented. While I must conceed easily the dufus has a right to his court hearings about his ability to keep people from testifying and even the documents he must produce, I do not conceed the congress has NO right to bring charges it has documented despite the dufus's tactics. I have already warned you that a few rulings in that regard are about to be announced sometimes this month, and the dufus has the right of appeal if he chooses to exercise it, further delaying any forthcoming order of the court, but the process is the process and the House has an obligation to do as they deem necessary.

The elections of 2018 has it's consequences, as do all elections. I respectfully submit the American people changed the balance of power in the House knowing full well dems were going to check the dufus as laid out by our constitution.

Well, I'm still waiting for that name. To me, when you cannot find a single witness who can say he witnessed or heard the Pres say or do something illegal, then I don't see how you have a case. It would not work in any court in America. Surely the pres should have the same justice accorded to him as other Americans have, even by those who hate him.

Well, I'm still waiting for that name. To me, when you cannot find a single witness who can say he witnessed or heard the Pres say or do something illegal, then I don't see how you have a case. It would not work in any court in America. Surely the pres should have the same justice accorded to him as other Americans have, even by those who hate him.
Here are three:

Former national security adviser John Bolton, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

Trump won't allow them to testify.

Here are three:

Former national security adviser John Bolton, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, and Defense Secretary Mark Esper.

Trump won't allow them to testify.


and what direct evidence might they have, were they in the Oval Office when Trump made the call?

and what direct evidence might they have, were they in the Oval Office when Trump made the call?
These were some of the witnesses who were in the room with tRump and had direct knowledge of his decision to cut off aid to Ukraine in order to benefit himself.

These were some of the witnesses who were in the room with tRump and had direct knowledge of his decision to cut off aid to Ukraine in order to benefit himself.You are speculating on a very high order as concerns "in order to benefit himself." Your anti-Trump prejudice is showing though.

I do hope you are feeling better. Been praying for you.

It's already been reported that Bolton, Pompeo, and ESPER all told the dufus to free the money. All witnessed the dufus's actions to fire the anti corruption ambassador and replace her with his donor Sondland. WHY if corruption was his reason and the congress and DOD certified they were in compliance and he changed his mind after signing the bill. WHY would he do that without revealing the reason? Did he know something everybody else in government didn't know?

Placing the blame for 2016 on the Ukrainians is another mystery know one can answer and goes against the entire government assessment of the cyber incursion, including the Senate Report. Again where is he getting this stuff that only he knows about and nobody else? So smearing a campaign foe, and protecting the Russians is my conclusion which makes his asking for a favor from Ukraine on these matters a breach of trust and an abuse of power. No speculation to connect these dots but hearing testimony from the people the dems are asking for and have been blocked from testifying would sure end the wild speculation of EVERYBODY!

Won't even get into the stuff that Crazy Rudy is doing.

The whole issue is being avoided. Biden is corrupt, an influence peddler and the demonrats are going ape because their favourite son stands accused. poetic justice. and they cannot see it

Speculation. Rumor mill. "Your honor, we believe the defendant is guilty because, after all, there are three people out there who, we are convinced, would testify that he is." How far do you think that would get you?

That's not the argument though and you know it!

"Your honor the dufus thought he could extort the Ukraine into helping him get dirt on his political foes through his son, and worked to cover it up after being caught and has offered no reasonable argument for his actions. He broke the law trying to involve a foreign country in our election and aided and abetted the Russians in their continuing efforts to undermine our democracy with cyber incursions. We offer as evidence the actions, and testimony of Sondland ETC showing his deviation from normal government channels to facilitate this goal, not for the interest of the country but for the purpose of his own re election, which continued after an impeachment inquiry has began, and he obstructed the congress from it's constitutionally duty to investigate the incidents."

Maybe you should have read the Impound Act links and see if the dufus violated that law in some way before you stick to your claims of NO evidence, since, you think its perfectly OKAY to go around the policy and practice of the government just because he said so. As I said before though that ship has sailed and the senate is charged with making the rules for this trial and VOTE on them BEFORE we can even get started presenting the evidence so you may as well stop speculating about it until that hurdle is cleared. Yes senators will have to VOTE on whether certain witnesses are called to testify, or not.

Reversing course on a bill that the dufus signed is rather suspicious just on it's own, so if you want to speculate, why did he sign the bill in the first place?


That's not the argument though and you know it!

"Your honor the dufus thought he could extort the Ukraine into helping him get dirt on his political foes through his son, and worked to cover it up after being caught and has offered no reasonable argument for his actions. He broke the law trying to involve a foreign country in our election and aided and abetted the Russians in their continuing efforts to undermine our democracy with cyber incursions. We offer as evidence the actions, and testimony of Sondland ETC showing his deviation from normal government channels to facilitate this goal, not for the interest of the country but for the purpose of his own re election, which continued after an impeachment inquiry has began, and he obstructed the congress from it's constitutionally duty to investigate the incidents."

Maybe you should have read the Impound Act links and see if the dufus violated that law in some way before you stick to your claims of NO evidence, since, you think its perfectly OKAY to go around the policy and practice of the government just because he said so. As I said before though that ship has sailed and the senate is charged with making the rules for this trial and VOTE on them BEFORE we can even get started presenting the evidence so you may as well stop speculating about it until that hurdle is cleared. Yes senators will have to VOTE on whether certain witnesses are called to testify, or not.

Reversing course on a bill that the dufus signed is rather suspicious just on it's own, so if you want to speculate, why did he sign the bill in the first place?

You had me interested until your links were going to a music list or whatever it was.

"Your honor the dufus thought he could extort the Ukraine into helping him get dirt on his political foes through his son, and worked to cover it up after being caught and has offered no reasonable argument for his actions. He broke the law trying to involve a foreign country in our election and aided and abetted the Russians in their continuing efforts to undermine our democracy with cyber incursions. We offer as evidence the actions, and testimony of Sondland ETC showing his deviation from normal government channels to facilitate this goal, not for the interest of the country but for the purpose of his own re election, which continued after an impeachment inquiry has began, and he obstructed the congress from it's constitutionally duty to investigate the incidents."If I am the defense attorney, I am delighted. I get to stand up and say, "Your honor, you have just heard a host of unsubstantiated and unproven accusations. They are merely the opinion of the "we hate Trump" crowd." I ask that you dismiss the case due to lack of evidence.

As to the Impound Act, is that what the House has accused him of doing in the articles of Impeachment?


You had me interested until your links were going to a music list or whatever it was.What?

We will see if that works or not Mr Defense Attorney, in due time. and the poster that I quoted was deleted by the site. There seem to be several examples under the charge of abuse of power to be cited, as there are under obstruction of congress. He certainly has shown a clear pattern for disregard to law and order and needs to be held accout and repubs share that blame that he was allowed to get this far.

Sort of like the wild dog terrorizing the neighborhood analogy I have used before, who is to blame the animal or owners of the animal?

We will see if that works or not Mr Defense Attorney

Very true. In the meantime, I hope you have a great and productive 2020.

You too, my friend as 2020 has started fairly wild. You could throw a dart at a map and find a hotspot that seems to get hotter by the minute. I wonder if the dufus has called his sweetheart Kim about that beautiful vase he promised? Or if we join China, Russia, and Iran on another joint military exercise since we couldn't make the last one?

Well it seems Trump has accepted the invitation to up the ante in Iraq, but it is a rerun of the American embassy event in Tehran so long ago. It seems the investment in "Iraqi Freedom" has turned sour, time to liquidate

Naw, the militias have pulled back for now but have you seen the emails just released unredacted between the DOD and OMB about holding up the funding? (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/schumer-new-unredacted-emails-show-need-for-impeachment-witnesses/ar-BBYyozk?ocid=spartanntp)

https://www.justsecurity.org/67863/exclusive-unredacted-ukraine-documents-reveal-extent-of-pentagons-legal-concerns/

https://publicintegrity.org/national-security/trump-administration-officials-worried-ukraine-aid-halt-violated-spending-law/

Yes so what? You and I know that whether Trump is guilty or not the jury is stacked so as Pilate said so long ago "what is truth".
The truth of this situation is whatever you want it to be

I ain't Pilate, and you ain't Paunchess(?), so let's get down to the facts as they are and that is the dufus broke the law and was confronted with it several times by several people in his government administration.

It seems the investment in "Iraqi Freedom" has turned sour, time to liquidateI have been thinking the same thing.

I ain't Pilate, and you ain't Paunchess(?)
Pontius? (Pilate's family name).

Pontius? (Pilate's family name).

Paunchous as in PAUNCHY as in fat or big belly. Darn humor font is on the blitz again.

I ain't Pilate, and you ain't Paunchess(?), so let's get down to the facts as they are and that is the dufus broke the law and was confronted with it several times by several people in his government administration.

Can't believe anyone's hands are clean Tal when you have whistleblowers in action Tal you never know what you get

That's precisely why Clete that there is a lawful process for reporting and investigating and specific protections afforded by those that come forward. I take it you don't approve of such actions. You agree that any president can do as they please in the manner they see fit regardless of the rule of law?

When you are POTUS, the likes of Bolton, Pompeo, and ESPER don't "TELL YOU" nothing! POTUS doesn't take orders from them! They take orders from POTUS! We elected Trump to take decisions (not "make" decisions) and if the Economy is any indication, he is taking the right decisions! When the DOW reaches 30,000 you can rest assured that Trump's Reelection is all but guaranteed.

It is illegal to give an order that breaks the law and that's a pretty simple concept and that's what we want to know from the decision maker dufus. Pompeo, Bolton, Esper, and a few others I could name could answer those questions and the "GREAT" economy is no excuse for breaking the law. Another simple concept to understand.

He didn't break any law: Its the authority of the POTUS' override any decision he feels needs to reviewed further or even cancelled if that decision is not in the best interest of the United States Of America! The POTUS has the last word on all these matters: If he felt that the Ukraine funds were akin to pouring money into a sewer, it is his job to hold-up those funds until the situation could be further reviewed: SIMPLE CONCEPT!

Hate to say you're wrong, but you are in that since we have laws, policy, practice, and procedures to operate legally within then going outside those boundaries as set forth is illegal. I refer you to the Impound Act of 1974, or go back and read the commentary you missed in this thread. That's why we are having an IMPEACHMENT Trial because opinions no longer count for much.

All is mute if you think POTUS is above the law, in which case you should just say so.

Comes down to deciding what law you are talking about. Much of what we hear is public opinion, it may or may not be fact. Trump is impeached for some relatively minor acts, where does extrajudicial assassination of a foreign national stand, I wonder?

That's why we are having an IMPEACHMENT Trial because opinions no longer count for much.I don't think the articles of impeachment mention the Impound Act.

Comes down to deciding what law you are talking about. Much of what we hear is public opinion, it may or may not be fact. Trump is impeached for some relatively minor acts, where does extrajudicial assassination of a foreign national stand, I wonder?

I don't know about how minor you consider abuse of power or their underlying offenses, but high crimes and misdemeanors is what the Constitutions call for, but as has been pointed out before, even if he is NOT removed he still faces a suitable punishment don't you think?

If offing a foreign national leads to an escalation of hostilities or even a full blown war or a bunch of dead people, then no telling how that plays with the public. It's not like we were at peace in the ME in the first place.


I don't think the articles of impeachment mention the Impound Act.

It will fall under abuse of power, along with a few other things.

It will fall under abuse of power, along with a few other things.

That's a big part of the problem. When you have an accusation like "abuse of power", it is so vague that it could include anything. It's like being charged with "criminal activity" or "being a bad person" in a court of law. That would never work in a courtroom, and it should never be used for impeachment.

Tal, if Biden is lying, does that get you as upset as Trump lying?

"DUBUQUE, Iowa -- Joe Biden is the only 2020 presidential candidate who was in the White House Situation Room as Navy SEALs descended on Usama bin Laden’s Pakistan compound in 2011.

But a critical detail in his story about that mission has changed in the last eight years.


During a brief exchange with Fox News on Friday, the former vice president was presented with a hypothetical situation similar to the one President Trump says he faced before ordering an airstrike to kill Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.


“As commander in chief, if you were ever handed a piece of intelligence that said you could stop an imminent attack on Americans -- but you have to use an airstrike to take out a terrorist leader -- would you pull the trigger?” Fox News asked Biden.

“Well we did - the guy’s name was Usama bin Laden,” Biden replied.

“Didn’t you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?” Fox News followed up.

“No, I didn’t,” Biden said.

That’s not the story Biden told almost eight years ago during a retreat in Maryland for congressional Democrats, as he described a tense 2011 strategy session ahead of the raid.

“Mr. President, my suggestion is, don’t go -- we have to do two more things to see if he’s there,” Biden had said in January 2012 of the strategy session."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-denies-telling-obama-not-to-launch-bin-laden-raid

That's a big part of the problem. When you have an accusation like "abuse of power", it is so vague that it could include anything. It's like being charged with "criminal activity" or "being a bad person" in a court of law. That would never work in a courtroom, and it should never be used for impeachment.


That may be true but in a court of law the dems will be charged with a presentation of evidence that makes that abuse of power case. Much of this case is not public, but we see enough to know where they are going with this, and the danger for the dufus is that what the public hasn't seen becomes PUBLIC. I have been consistent with watching the court rulings so far which the public has so far shown little concerns about, but those rulings are CRUCIAL to what the public will see, such as the unredacted portions of the grand jury proceedings of the Mueller Report, and the unredacted just released emails between DOD and OMB, damming on their own as evidence of intentional disregard for the law, and pointing to one person the dufus. Why is that important? He gave orders to subordinates to break the law, and if they did NOT, they were replaced by people that would do as ordered.

That alone makes the House hearings even more important because they all testified to pretty much the same actions, removing people to gain an ILLEGAL objective. There is no need to have the Ukrainians cut their own throats and admit to anything at this point. I know people have made a big deal of the facts they have said they didn't feel pressured but what you admit that you would be? Such an admission would sure go over just great I'm sure with your own people who elected you wouldn't it.

In any event I didn't put abuse of power in the constitution but I suspect it was vague to cover a whole lot of things unsavory on purpose. Lol if they had a specific list and POTUS committed something not on the list then it's not an abuse is it? That sort of defeats the purpose doesn't it?


Tal, if Biden is lying, does that get you as upset as Trump lying?

"DUBUQUE, Iowa -- Joe Biden is the only 2020 presidential candidate who was in the White House Situation Room as Navy SEALs descended on Usama bin Laden’s Pakistan compound in 2011.

But a critical detail in his story about that mission has changed in the last eight years.


During a brief exchange with Fox News on Friday, the former vice president was presented with a hypothetical situation similar to the one President Trump says he faced before ordering an airstrike to kill Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.


“As commander in chief, if you were ever handed a piece of intelligence that said you could stop an imminent attack on Americans -- but you have to use an airstrike to take out a terrorist leader -- would you pull the trigger?” Fox News asked Biden.

“Well we did - the guy’s name was Usama bin Laden,” Biden replied.

“Didn’t you tell President Obama not to go after bin Laden that day?” Fox News followed up.

“No, I didn’t,” Biden said.

That’s not the story Biden told almost eight years ago during a retreat in Maryland for congressional Democrats, as he described a tense 2011 strategy session ahead of the raid.

“Mr. President, my suggestion is, don’t go -- we have to do two more things to see if he’s there,” Biden had said in January 2012 of the strategy session."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-denies-telling-obama-not-to-launch-bin-laden-raid


The Biden statement is an old story since Hillary used that same attack line on 2013. Okay he lied, you got him, so that makes it Dufus 15,000 lies, Biden 2, if I count the Ukraine confession tape.

I don't get mad about what any politician says or does, I just count it, and weigh it against the outcome or significance, but I don't mind admitting the dufus lies irk me more than any other politician I have ever seen in my life by far. Did that answer your question?

So the man irks you and you maintain the rage. I think you should just get used to it and try to find some positives.

No rage involved Clete, but the continuous LIES and dramado bring out some good rants don't they? No one has to accept it, but you do have to deal with it positively for your own good I would think, to thrive and survive. LOL, so far I have survived all the idiots and whatever they have done and God willing I will survive the dufus and the rest of his ilk. That doesn't mean I have to be quiet about it does it, or go along with it either?

No rage involved Clete, but the continuous LIES and dramado bring out some good rants don't they? No one has to accept it, but you do have to deal with it positively for your own good I would think, to thrive and survive. LOL, so far I have survived all the idiots and whatever they have done and God willing I will survive the dufus and the rest of his ilk. That doesn't mean I have to be quiet about it does it, or go along with it either?

the world is packed with such idiots Tal, "know it alls" who think they only have to speak and it is done. I know only one person for whom that is effective and Trump ain't it, in fact, no politician is it, no high ranking military is it. You have them there, we have them here, they are everywhere and they cause trouble

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?

Blows your mind doesn't it, nothing like you figured.

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?

Blows your mind doesn't it, nothing like you figured.

Fully understood, would like to come over for coffee sometime. Tal, I too am old with many years behind me. As you know I have many opinions, and what I see in the world I don't like. Every solution seems to be a camel, which as you know is a horse designed by a committee, very functional in only a few places

Okay I confess, I have nothing else to do but fight, fart and raise a ruckus. I have no friends except YOU, and WG and JL wants me to visit him for coffee and see his bat collection up close and personal. There you happy for exposing me?Sadly, I have no bat collection, but you are welcome for coffee at any time. For that matter, we'll fix you dinner!

Sadly, I have no bat collection, but you are welcome for coffee at any time. For that matter, we'll fix you dinner!


I have a very nice war club and Maori Patu also known as a Mere, does that qualify? let's have a dinner party

No secret I am well past my physical prime with some issues there, and can I honestly say the mind is clear and sharp as yesteryears? Probably not, and that may keep me stuck in my ways a bit, and resentful as I see youth being wasted on the young. Seems like just yesterday I was telling the old duffs to get out of the way and take their old ways with them, and now I'll be darned if they aren't telling me the same thing, sometimes gently, sometimes not.

Coffee and dinner is about all I can do folks, then call it a day because besides opinions, that's all I got. Can't even chunk rocks like I use too, without taking a break, and that involves drooling and snoring in the middle of the freaking day! Darn grandkids just take off my glasses and go about their business. I guess everything sounds like a rant or a beetch session from me since I sure can't do a darn thing about it. The truth is all I got is beetchin'.

So yeah coffee sounds good.

I see youth being wasted on the young. Seems like just yesterday I was telling the old duffs to get out of the way and take their old ways with them, and now I'll be darned if they aren't telling me the same thing, sometimes gently, sometimes not.Kind of ironic ain't it? 66 years have gone by in a blinding hurry. I will say that in all things, the Gospel was my great benefit and my hope for the future.

World is a better place without the Iranian terrorist mastermind in it. How in the name of GOD anyone, anybody in the U.S. or Europe or any other civilized country in this world can turn the death of a terrorist, who was responsible for thousands upon thousands of deaths all around the globe, into a bad thing just to try and use it as a political football and impugn the POTUS is entire wrongheaded: OUR POTUS DOES NOT NEED TO ASK A DAMN SOUL IF HE CAN DEFEND THE U.S. FROM A TERRORIST! He killed the scumbag, now you want to join the ranks of the mayor of London and memorialize his dead arse? What in the name of hell is wrong with you?

I doubt the Iranians will retaliate against US forces, but in addition with announcing going back to getting a bomb, the Iraqis are considering expelling the US from it's country and we have suspended our fight against ISIS. So while everybody is biting their fingernails waiting for the other shoe to fall over this offing a terrorist, who has been replaced already and the same strategies and plans against us still in place, the Iranians are seemingly putting aside their internal differences and rallying around their countryman. Nobody in the free world mourns this dude, but for real nobody has been saved by this action either. Just the opposite as the stakes have been raised much higher than they were before, and our allies and the Iraqis may be screwed big time because of this action.

The dufus threw a match into a munitions dump full of high explosives and told the Americans to RUN fast as you can away because he knows it's going to blow. Tourist, business people, AND embassy folks are in more danger now than ever before, and our allies are wondering W-T-F...NOW WHAT!

Obviously Vac you trust the judgement of POTUS a lot more than I do!

Well Tal, you can never be sure what the motive is, the US must have been planning this move for a while

I would expect we have always had a plan to blow someone away no matter what the motive is, yet I stop short in articulating what that is even though I've seen this military stuff in an election year before. Even Clinton's his impeachment had a missile attack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach)They've been playing the dufus accusing Obama video of starting a war with Iran to get re elected all day long and I find that rather ironic given current events. His tweet storms don't help as he is talking crazy as hell. While that's nothing really new, it's actually more of the same stuff that got him impeached in the first place. Threatening the Iranian religious sites for destruction after offing their general is illegal by any standard though if even for just the effects of puffery.

I would expect we have always had a plan to blow someone away no matter what the motive is, yet I stop short in articulating what that is even though I've seen this military stuff in an election year before. Even Clinton's his impeachment had a missile attack (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Infinite_Reach)They've been playing the dufus accusing Obama video of starting a war with Iran to get re elected all day long and I find that rather ironic given current events. His tweet storms don't help as he is talking crazy as hell. While that's nothing really new, it's actually more of the same stuff that got him impeached in the first place. Threatening the Iranian religious sites for destruction after offing their general is illegal by any standard though if even for just the effects of puffery.

Yes Tal terrorism is in the eye of the beholder, etc. Trump is now everyman's freedom fighter. the man obviously doesn't think he just reacts. His reactionary attempts at world peace just spread dismay

I suspect he acts and reacts in his own self interest all the time, and doesn't care about the consequences or who else it affects or how. Irksome at the risk of understatement at best.

Nothing new to see here: OFFICIALLY, the U.S. does not use assassination as a method to achieve political ends (Frank Church saw to that back in the late '70s) but killing this Iranian has sent a message to the rest of them: Don't believe the B.S. being put out there: None of these Iranians or Mullahs WANT a missile flying into their turbans! These arse wipes will think twice before acting up now. Doesn't anyone remember Ghaddaffi and Reagan sending a missile strike his way that killed his daughter? He shut up and no one heard of him for years. We don't have to do anything but use precision missile strike to terrorize these terrorist into becoming tame...hell they might even come to Jesus before its over!

Nothing new to see here: OFFICIALLY, the U.S. does not use assassination as a method to achieve political ends (Frank Church saw to that back in the late '70s) but killing this Iranian has sent a message to the rest of them: Don't believe the B.S. being put out there: None of these Iranians or Mullahs WANT a missile flying into their turbans! These arse wipes will think twice before acting up now. Doesn't anyone remember Ghaddaffi and Reagan sending a missile strike his way that killed his daughter? He shut up and no one heard of him for years. We don't have to do anything but use precision missile strike to terrorize these terrorist into becoming tame...hell they might even come to Jesus before its over!

Vac either you are the good guys or you are not, I think you have splinters in your arse from sitting on the fence as far as assassination is concerned, but then you don't offically use torture either

Paraclete: See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil: Only loose lips, media, and busy-bodies are responsible to fouling-up a good thing.....nipping these cancerous people in the bud is the best way to eliminate problems going forward: Why in the name of hell would anyone think that allowing them to grow larger, kill more people, and threaten more of the world be a good thing? Eliminate the problems earlier as opposed to later. A single 30-06 round would take care of each of the world's terrorist masterminds.....that single 30-06 round would save countless lives.

You going to send a missile to Tehran when they bomb a stadium in England, or shoot rockets in Israel, or shoot up a train in Germany?

You going to send a missile to Tehran when they bomb a stadium in England, or shoot rockets in Israel, or shoot up a train in Germany?

What are those missiles for if you are not going to use them, obviously the deterrent effect is low. You have an "intelligence" network obviously it's effect is low too, if you cannot discern who gave the order and where they are located

May have to fire a few since Iran has started firing theirs! (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-says-its-fired-missiles-at-us-base-in-iraq-live-updates/ar-BBYHc7Z?ocid=spartanntp)

May have to fire a few since Iran has started firing theirs! (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/iran-says-its-fired-missiles-at-us-base-in-iraq-live-updates/ar-BBYHc7Z?ocid=spartanntp)

That is a matter of perspective, they would say you started it many years ago, what I see is a whole lot of stupidity, both nations have little to gain from war. remember the last one you started, it still isn't over

If it's not one thing it's another as humans have proved through history it doesn't take much to start something, and have plenty of tools for wars. We still await the specifics for offing this hero terrorist, while others are taking the body count and disruption we have caused over that same period, like he is the only one with blood on his hands, and many have even more. Should they too be offed?

Don't care which side you take, I don't trust our side completely, even as I don't trust the other side for a minute. The rest of us are just caught in the middle of their crap as usual.



remember the last one you started, it still isn't over

ONE? Count them again, and remember the W word isn't used for all of them. It's not official without the WW and a number behind it. Mostly its the small w that is referenced.

Tal, war is hell, i know you know this i would like to have decade without a war

Feel good semantics aside despite all the conflicts it could be worse.

Talaniman: O.K., I must ask you: What did you think of Trump's response today around the Iranians? I was pleasantly surprised that he refrained from any immediate retaliation.

I did find it very, very telling that the Iranians "PHONED AHEAD" that they were going to send missiles hurtling toward us before they fired them: That tells me that they really didn't want to kill any Americans....that is quite profound.

Talaniman: O.K., I must ask you: What did you think of Trump's response today around the Iranians? I was pleasantly surprised that he refrained from any immediate retaliation.

I did find it very, very telling that the Iranians "PHONED AHEAD" that they were going to send missiles hurtling toward us before they fired them: That tells me that they really didn't want to kill any Americans....that is quite profound.
The Iranians are really playing him, aren't they! The bases were empty and they knew it.

The Iranians are really playing him, aren't they! The bases were empty and they knew it.

It is all part of the great game, it has been played for centuries

does anyone deny killing General Salami was the right move ? The man is directly resonsible for the death and maiming of thousands of Americans ....He has led the war effort in Syria that has caused a half million Syrian deaths and a million more wandering around Europe. He leads the Iranian effort in their proxy war against the Saudi's in Yemen . I liken his wacking to the WWII Operation Vengeance .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance

where does Yamamoto go to get his apology ?



Perhaps you think that Iran hasn't been at war with us since 1979 ? There are some Americans I suppose who think not . I know that no Iranian leader thinks otherwise.

does anyone deny killing General Salami was the right move ? The man is directly resonsible for the death and maiming of thousands of Americans ....He has led the war effort in Syria that has caused a half million Syrian deaths and a million more wandering around Europe. He leads the Iranian effort in their proxy war against the Saudi's in Yemen . I liken his wacking to the WWII Operation Vengeance .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Vengeance

where does Yamamoto go to get his apology ?



Perhaps you think that Iran hasn't been at war with us since 1979 ? There are some Americans I suppose who think not . I know that no Iranian leader thinks otherwise.

Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general. Without the due process which you americans prize there cannot be justification. When did the trail take place which sentenced him in absentia? Was it legally constituted? or a kangaroo court made up of politicians and military? I expect it was Trump acting as Judge , Jury and Executioner and noone gave him that authority.

Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general. Without the due process which you americans prize there cannot be justification.You're comparing apples with oranges. It's like asking if Hitler would have been justified for trying to kill Roosevelt since, after all, Roosevelt had bombed so many German cities.

Ladies and Gentlemen: Has anybody recollected the show trials of Nuremberg? Was that not an entire B.S. court? Many were hanged with only accusations to support the claims of the Allies. Being a Nazi was enough to get you killed, even though hostilities were over! Now, Solemeini was guilty because he was caught on tape talking about executing another mudering rampage: He was dead to rights guilty! It all comes down to the fact the left has a problem with TRUMP! If Obama killed Solemeini, it would have been the "Greatest Assassination Of All Time"!!! And everyone on here knows it! All the left is ing because TRUMP is decisive and HE DID NOT GO TO WAR, which is what they were hoping he would do because it gave them a glimmer of hope that they could win in Nov. 2020!

Tom let me ask you a question. What would happen if Iran decided that the assassination of Trump was the right move because of his actions, would it be seen as justifiable because he had effectively murdered the Iranian general.


A question you would not ask under the context of a war. Iran has declared war on the US .General Salami is personally responsible for introducing the road side
explosively formed projectile (
EFP) that killed over 600 US soldiers and maimed thousands more .


In 2004, the Quds Force began flooding Iraq with lethal roadside bombs that the Americans referred to as E.F.P.s, for “explosively formed projectiles.” The E.F.P.s, which fire a molten copper slug able to penetrate armor, began to wreak havoc on American troops, accounting for nearly twenty per cent of combat deaths. E.F.P.s could be made only by skilled technicians, and they were often triggered by sophisticated motion sensors. “There was zero question where they were coming from,” General Stanley McChrystal, who at the time was the head of the Joint Special Operations Command, told me. “We knew where all the factories were in Iran. The E.F.P.s killed hundreds of Americans.”Suleimani’s campaign against the United States
crossed the Sunni-Shiite divide, which he has always been willing to set aside for a larger purpose. Iraqi and Western officials told me that, early in the war, Suleimani encouraged the head of intelligence for the Assad regime to facilitate the movement of Sunni extremists through Syria to fight the Americans. In many cases, Al Qaeda was also allowed a degree of freedom in Iran as well. Crocker told me that in May, 2003, the Americans received intelligence that Al Qaeda fighters in Iran were preparing an attack on Western targets in Saudi Arabia. Crocker was alarmed. “They were there, under Iranian protection, planning operations,” he said. He flew to Geneva and passed a warning to the Iranians, but to no avail; militants bombed three residential compounds in Riyadh, killing thirty-five people, including nine Americans.



https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/30/the-shadow-commander


Since when is targeting an enemy commander in war a matter of due process ? Was it wrong to target kill Yamamoto ,the commander who planned and executed Pearl Harbor ??? You are making the same mistake the Democrats are making here . It is a legitimate issue to question the strategic implications of the decision. It is not legit to question the legality or the legitimacy of the President who is commander in Chief to make that call .

Good reasoning, Tom.

A question you would not ask under the context of a war. Iran has declared war on the US .General Salami is personally responsible for introducing the road side
explosively formed projectile (
EFP) that killed over 600 US soldiers and maimed thousands more .


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/09/30/the-shadow-commander


Since when is targeting an enemy commander in war a matter of due process ? Was it wrong to target kill Yamamoto ,the commander who planned and executed Pearl Harbor ??? You are making the same mistake the Democrats are making here . It is a legitimate issue to question the strategic implications of the decision. It is not legit to question the legality or the legitimacy of the President who is commander in Chief to make that call .

On the contrary, legitimacy is the question. You say the man is guilty by his own words, the same could be said of Trump who threatens death and destruction every other day. Trump has bombed the territory of other nations. Just because you think american stands above other nations doesn't make the acts of its leader legitimate. I'm not saying the Iranian general didn't need to be brought to account, but he doesn't stand alone, he too has a chief who endorses his acts

Several presidents and the Mossad have declined in the past to off this guy when they had the chance. Would that have changed things any? I very much doubt it in the contexts of the Iranian asymetrical strategy. The deed is done and the Iranians shot their missles and officially washed their hands of the matter. They still have the asymetrical war network and strategy in place just ready to continue at the next level. They still have all the tools in the box they had before and with a more focused purpose that even those that called for reforms and the ouster of the mullahs can get with. So what was really accomplished here? They have another martyr, and we are still left with the dufus and what he will do next, since doesn't look like a war with Iran. You think he will try again?

Back to impeachment, the commercial break is over. Look for more documents against the dufus to emerge as Moscow Mitch pushes for the trial to start. He said he has the votes to start without charges or committing to witnesses. Will he though? Will the congress buy the excuses from the dufus that there was an imminent threat so an assassination was the only option to stop it? Will the dufus be knee deep in his trial when he gives his state of the union address?

Now that should be a wild ride if he is.

Tell me Tal how much of a threat was the shooting down of a Ukrainian air liner. I think it says, this is a no fly zone for friends of america

So what was really accomplished here? They have another martyr, and we are still left with the dufus and what he will do next, since doesn't look like a war with Iran. You think he will try again?Maybe we should try foolishly giving them billions of dollars in cash. No, wait. Obama already did that.


Back to impeachment, the commercial break is over. Look for more documents against the dufus to emerge as Moscow Mitch pushes for the trial to start. So we're back again to, "charges first and evidence second". "You just wait until tomorrow and see what damaging evidence we'll come up with!" People are beginning to get tired of that old song.

Paraclete: No evidence that the Ukrainian Airliner was shot down.

Trump isn't at all worried about Impeachment....he isn't worried about whether the Senate Trial happens or doesn't happen...Trump doesn't worry about the Democrats...Trump is focused on the health of the U.S. Economy and, despite all the nonsense spouted out by the left that WWIII was fixing to start yesterday, the DOW hit another record! You aren't stopping the TRUMP TRAIN, no matter what the left does: He is too tough, too fast, and too smart. The left has met their match in Trump.

It's normal and the way the law works is charges are brought, and a trial follows, and that's what we have. A trial determines guilt and innocence. Repubs couldn't rig the investigation after the House changed hands so crying foul and rallying around the leader is all they have left.

It's normal and the way the law works is charges are brought, and a trial follows, and that's what we have. A trial determines guilt and innocence. Repubs couldn't rig the investigation after the House changed hands so crying foul and rallying around the leader is all they have left.Try going to court to bring charges against someone with no substantial evidence and see if you end up with a trial happening.

In this instance we have charges and are going to trial. The dems make their case or they don't but America will be watching and rendering their own judgements. I'm cool with that.

Talaniman: We may NOT BE GOING TO TRIAL: Pelosi has presented any Articles Of Impeachment....The whole Impeachment issue may be dismissed....pissing away a lot of taxpayer money and Trump still get reelected....WHAT A WASTE of time, money, and effort....and Adam Schiff still won't be liked!

Talaniman: We may NOT BE GOING TO TRIAL: Pelosi has presented any Articles Of Impeachment....The whole Impeachment issue may be dismissed....pissing away a lot of taxpayer money and Trump still get reelected....WHAT A WASTE of time, money, and effort....and Adam Schiff still won't be liked!
Yes, we will go to trial.

Yes can we get on with it

Pelosi is still napping. Once she gets up, it'll be underway.

Pelosi is still napping. Once she gets up, it'll be underway.
Nope, she's waiting for Moscow Mitch to get real.

procrastination, it is a wonderful tool, but Trump didn't fall for it

It's just an attempted power grab. Someone needs to tell Miss Nancy that she is not in the Senate.

Typical right wing hollering points as just like the dufus can do as he pleases, and Moscow Mitch does as he pleases, how you wingers balk at Nancy for doing as she pleases.

Typical right wing hollering points as just like the dufus can do as he pleases, and Moscow Mitch does as he pleases, how you wingers balk at Nancy for doing as she pleases.So if all three of them can do as they please, then why are the dems bringing charges of impeachment?

This is the Schitt Show, remember? He started it, Nancy won't finish it. McConnel may have the Senate DISMISS the whole Impeachment.

Yes he could no doubt, but the conversation while we wait for Nancy has been about a fair trial, and witnesses. Repubs could vote against both.

The role of the Senate is to evaluate the evidence the House sends forward and rule on it. It is the job of the House to provide evidence. But if you want witnesses, then let's start with the Biden family and the whistle blower. I'm fine with that, but we both know the dems are terrified of it.

I think the problem is that the dems know they do not have a winning case. They are stalling for time in hopes of somehow finding something else, or trying to gain a little more political leverage. I think the American people are seeing what a useless, hate-filled circus this has become.

Yeah half of America sees it that way, but the other half does NOT. Speak for your half why don't you.

All political orientations and preferences aside, in all of this Impeachment goings on and other immediate issues, ARE NOT YOU STILL AMAZED at the ARCHITECTURE of the U.S. Government, set forth by out Founding Fathers? The checks and balances, the requirements, the compartmentalization of it all, with specific and defined jobs for each: It just goes to show you how insightful and wonderful our Governmental structure is and why it is the model to beat.....and, I could care less that the people who occupy the Government today are fighting each other like two scorpions in a bottle, that is really immaterial.

it is amazing and for all the battles between camps I sure wouldn't want a UNITED states against me. LOL, if this forum is any indication Americans love to fuss complain argue and debate. I look forward to seeing you guys everyday and sometimes ALL day.

8D

I'm sure I should know this, but what is the "8D" for?

I'm sure I should know this, but what is the "8D" for?
Goodness gracious, JL!!!!!

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=8D

I'm sure I should know this, but what is the "8D" for?

Well you can take your pick, it is either a happy face or something rude, in context, I would say it is saying I'm one up on you either way

{:>()=

I must sadly confess my appalling ignorance in such matters. Please forgive!! (<;

I did like this. {:>()=

Actually it's a big friendly GRIN, JL, freely given in appreciation. and gratitude. What no GKids to keep you HIP?

Pelosi has made her point though, a fair trial with witnesses and I doubt if repubs want the quick show trial clearing the dufus before an election, or a circus with the distraction of side issues though the dufus has clearly been rattled by Bolton showing up, and has signaled he will invoke executive privilege if Bolton is called as a witness "to protect future presidents" are his words. This is going to be really good I think.

The charges may be sent to the senate in a week or too, and while Moscow Mitch has the votes to proceed, does he have the votes to immediately dismiss?

Actually it's a big friendly GRIN, JL, freely given in appreciation. and gratitude. What no GKids to keep you HIP?

Pelosi has made her point though, a fair trial with witnesses and I doubt if repubs want the quick show trial clearing the dufus before an election, or a circus with the distraction of side issues though the dufus has clearly been rattled by Bolton showing up, and has signaled he will invoke executive privilege if Bolton is called as a witness "to protect future presidents" are his words. This is going to be really good I think.

The charges may be sent to the senate in a week or too, and while Moscow Mitch has the votes to proceed, does he have the votes to immediately dismiss?

I expect he will be in the position to proceed in whatever direction appears expedient

Expediant and preserves his majority leader role which depends on keeping the senate in repub hands. That won't be as easy peazy as repubs make it sound, as this is an election year and swing state repubs cannot appear to just rubber stamp the repub marching orders and expect to survive prinaries and the general election. Didn't work for them in 2018 in the House.

Pelosi has made her point though, a fair trial with witnesses
That made me laugh. If you are ever so unfortunate as to be charged with a crime, pray that you will not be subjected to such a "fair trial" as the one they conducted where you are not even represented by counsel, the trial is conducted by your enemies, and you cannot even cross-examine the primary witness against you which was the whistle blower. Fair? Only on the basis of what a liberal dem sees.

...pray that you will not be subjected to such a "fair trial" as the one they conducted where you are not even represented by counsel, the trial is conducted by your enemies, and you cannot even cross-examine the primary witness against you which was the whistle blower. Fair? Only on the basis of what a liberal dem sees.
That kind of kangaroo court is not what what will happen.

Who is trump's lawyer? His witnesses?

That kind of kangaroo court is not what what will happen.

Who is trump's lawyer? His witnesses?

The point is, that's the very kind of kangaroo court that did take place in the House. As for the Senate, if Miss Nancy will get off her rear end and send the charges over to the Senate, they can get on with business.

Trump did not get to have counsel in the House, nor did he get to select witnesses, and certainly did not get to cross examine the key accuser who was the whistle blower. Yeah. That was a really fair trial in the House.

The point is, that's the very kind of kangaroo court that did take place in the House. As for the Senate, if Miss Nancy will get off her rear end and send the charges over to the Senate, they can get on with business.

Trump did not get to have counsel in the House, nor did he get to select witnesses, and certainly did not get to cross examine the key accuser who was the whistle blower. Yeah. That was a really fair trial in the House.
Apparently, you don't understand what the House was supposed to do (they did it correctly) and what the Senate is supposed to do. Trump having counsel and witnesses is NOT part of the process in the House but IS in the Senate. There isn't a trial in the House; that's what happens in the Senate.

Trump having counsel and witnesses is NOT part of the process in the House but IS in the Senate. Where does it say that?


There isn't a trial in the House; that's what happens in the Senate. The job of the House is to impartially investigate the charges to see if there is sufficient evidence to justify what should be the incredibly serious step of bringing impeachment charges against the Pres. I have no idea how that can be done if the accused is not allowed representation, or if the CHIEF witness is not even allowed to testify and be cross examined.

Where does it say that?
In the US Constitution.

The job of the House is to impartially investigate the charges to see if there is sufficient evidence to justify what should be the incredibly serious step of bringing impeachment charges against the Pres. I have no idea how that can be done if the accused is not allowed representation, or if the CHIEF witness is not even allowed to testify and be cross examined.
This isn't the time, during the investigatory phase, where lawyers and witnesses are needed to defend when the evidence is brought forward by the House. That happens during the trial, which the Senate oversees.