My question was what did they like besides the price? Just curious as to what coverages they get for their cheap insurance. Aren't you?

I mean you can like the price, but never know what you are paying for. Conversely you can hate the price, but need the coverage.

What part of stay out of our lives and don't force us to buy your crap sandwiches don't you understand? You of all people should sympathize with that point.




Ever hear of you get what you pay for? So educate me and tell me what do you get from cheap insurance besides a cut rate price? I will note the unhappy lawyers in the last anecdote are pregnant and should expect extra costs in not just insurance but in many other areas of costs, like diapers formulae and baby doctors.

Ever hear of mind your own business?

Hello again, tom:
The insurance for personal coverage is completely a matter of choice.If the cost of my PERSONAL choice WASN'T passed on to the taxpayers, I'd agree.. However, it impacts my pocketbook, whether he runs into my car, or runs into the ER.

excon

Again ,the mandatory insurance for autos if for damage you do to someone else's property or person. The insurance for personal coverage is completely a matter of choice.

The cost of health insurance is one of many things that have gone up. Rent, utilities, gas, and groceries, water, and flushing your toilet. They are choices too aren't they? To stabilize any cost you have to have a floor, and a ceiling and work to keep things in a range. You also have to have a priority, and health and associated cost are right up at the top for most families.

Its one of those rather have and not need, than need and not have things. Like toilet paper. You can choose what to wipe your a$$ with and live with the choice you make. Corn cobs will not flush and have crap water all over the bath room.

Corn cobs ain't cheap. Neither are doctor visits. No such thing as live free or die. You pay to live and then you die.

So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes?

The cost of health insurance is one of many things that have gone up. Rent, utilities, gas, and groceries, water, and flushing your toilet. They are choices too aren't they? To stabilize any cost you have to have a floor, and a ceiling and work to keep things in a range. You also have to have a priority, and health and associated cost are right up at the top for most families.

Its one of those rather have and not need, than need and not have things. Like toilet paper. You can choose what to wipe your a$$ with and live with the choice you make. Corn cobs will not flush and have crap water all over the bath room.

Corn cobs ain't cheap. Neither are doctor visits. No such thing as live free or die. You pay to live and then you die.

So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes?

What part of "affordable", "if you like your insurance you can keep your insurance" and don't force me to buy your crap sandwich don't you get?

I seem to keep asking questions and getting no answers. If you don't know, you don't know.

Why is ordinary toilet paper more than the colored rolls we use to get? What's a working guy to do when the price of milk goes up, and the paycheck does not.

I know Obama and the liberals did that too? No further questions your Honors. You don't seem to have any answers, so you probably have no solutions. And you question what I get, and don't get?

SAD!

So what does a hundred bucks a month get you as far as health insurance goes? Who pays for the balance of the cost of the medical expenses for those who are going to be fined... oops I mean taxed (by the IRS ,which doesn't have the authority to collect the fine except through income tax refunds .) Who pays for your so called single payer alternative ? The same ones evidently who pay for it in the system we had before Obamacare. So how did your incompetent screwing up of a system that most people liked change that equation ?

I don't buy colored TP, it's called choice. Meanwhile, while you're celebrating the demise of the TP, it's not looking too rosy for Dems right now either.


Incoming from Democrats: (http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/obama-takes-friendly-fire-20131028)

"Dem Party is F****d." That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill. The body of the email contained a link to this Los Angeles Times story about Obamacare "sticker shock:"

"These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years."

"Although recent criticism of the healthcare law has focused on website glitches and early enrollment snags, experts say sharp price increases for individual policies have the greatest potential to erode public support for President Obama's signature legislation."


In his story, reporter Chad Terhune also quoted a letter sent to a California insurance company executive. "I was all for Obamacare," wrote a young woman complaining about a 50 percent rate hike related to the health care law, "until I found out I was paying for it."

Also of interest to the Democratic consultant: A Josh Barro column on Obama's promise that "if you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan." It was never a reasonable pledge, Barro argues, and it's being proven false. He called this "a good thing" because "a lot of existing health plans were bad." Reforming the nation's health care system "was necessarily going to have to change a lot of people's health plans," Barro wrote.

The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn't honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. "We will own this problem forever," the Democrat wrote.

"I was all for Obamacare, until I found out I was paying for it."What? How ignorant is this anonymous person?

The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn't honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. "We will own this problem forever," the Democrat wrote.
The thing that would be a surprise would be if the emperor was ever honest with us.

What? How ignorant is this anonymous person?

How ignorant are these people that ignored our warnings?

Who pays for the balance of the cost of the medical expenses for those who are going to be fined... oops I mean taxed (by the IRS ,which doesn't have the authority to collect the fine except through income tax refunds .) Who pays for your so called single payer alternative ? The same ones evidently who pay for it in the system we had before Obamacare. So how did your incompetent screwing up of a system that most people liked change that equation ?

That's a good question Tom, but we both know that insurance companies pass the losses onto the insured through higher cost. They are so good they still profit in the billions of dollars a year. But lets be real. Did you like the old system, or did you just tolerate it because the alternatives were unimaginable?

We as a nation have been talking of making changes for decades, why? Because of rising costs. As a nation why are we NOT outraged about the price of an aspirin when we are in the hospital?

That's a good question Tom, but we both know that insurance companies pass the losses onto the insured through higher cost. They are so good they still profit in the billions of dollars a year. But lets be real. Did you like the old system, or did you just tolerate it because the alternatives were unimaginable?

We as a nation have been talking of making changes for decades, why? Because of rising costs. As a nation why are we NOT outraged about the price of an aspirin when we are in the hospital?

I would've been happier with greater choice. Yeah I subsidized a lot of people's health for many years buying full coverage that I did not need or desire. I have for years paid for NY mandates that most other states did not require. I would've been happier with the option of just paying out of pocket for the few times I went to the doctor with just paying for catastrophic insurance . My tax money has always paid for the needs of the truly needy as throughout my entire adult life there have been provisions . So that is not the pressing need .
All you are really doing is just creating another wealth transfer from the young to the old ;often from the poor worker or middle class worker to the more affluent elderly... So while the young are struggling with poor paying jobs in the ObamaEconomy ,trying to start families ,save for homes.. begin their lives... they are subsidizing the insurance of the elderly... MANY of which are living the good life in retirement communities ,making decision about which restaurant to dine at ;where to take their next vacation ,when to trade in their 2 year old car .

I have run into a lot of not so affluent elderly people whose only investment is in pill cutters, and walkers. They were hardly rich back in the day, even less so now.

MANY of which are living the good life in retirement communities ,making decision about which restaurant to dine at ;where to take their next vacation ,when to trade in their 2 year old car .
Wow! I'd sure like to know some of these people. I'm guessing it's a pretty small percentage of us elderly. I haven't seen any around Chicagoland. The wealthier suburbs around here contain young families who are often Asian. In area retirement communities, residents hope they can make it to the dining room without falling over -- otherwise, they will get shuffled off to the extended care section.

Suggest you look up the generational breakdown of disposable incomes . According to Georgia State University's Center for Mature Consumer Studies,the elderly controls 75 percent of America's wealth and 70 percent of its disposable income . What is being set up here is that the coming retirement of the baby boomers (the most affluent generation in our history ) will get their health care subsidized until the death panel deems them a burden.. Then they will be denied.

Problem is few ot the "truly Needy" are really truly needy... most of them are lazy bums scamming the system. Same with a lot of the people lining up for handouts from the Catholic Church... some of the charity ends up being given to friends and even family at the expense of others more deserving of it.

And yes I say that because I actually know someone show does exactly that... and I know the person on the mooching end as well.

Something I find truely disgusting.....not to mention the fact its so overt because everyone at the church know both of the people because they are both longtime members of the church ( over 40 years in fact) and they all know the recipient is the son of someone that works in the group doleing out the handouts.....and that he actually has a pretty good job for the area.

the elderly controls 75 percent of America's wealth and 70 percent of its disposable income .
How many elderly are there (over what age is considered elderly?), and what percentage of those have this wealth?

i.e., total elderly = ? wealthy elderly = ?

So this comes down to saying the 1% in american are elderly, so when they shuffle off we can expect a more generous attitude?

Greed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greed)


Greed is the inordinate desire to possess wealth, goods, or objects of abstract value with the intention to keep it for one's self, far beyond the dictates of basic survival and comfort. It is applied to a markedly high desire for and pursuit of wealth, status, and power.

As a secular psychological concept, greed is, similarly, an inordinate desire to acquire or possess more than one needs. The degree of inordinance is related to the inability to control the reformulation of "wants" once desired "needs" are eliminated. Erich Fromm described greed as "a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy the need without ever reaching satisfaction." It is typically used to criticize those who seek excessive material wealth, although it may apply to the need to feel more excessively moral, social, or otherwise better than someone else.
The purpose for greed, and any actions associated with it, is possibly to deprive others of potential means (perhaps, of basic survival and comfort) or future opportunities accordingly, or to obstruct them therefrom, as a measure of enhanced discretion via majority belongings-having and majority competitive advantage, thus insidious and tyrannical or otherwise having negative connotation. Alternately, the purpose could be defense or counteraction from such dangerous, potential leverage in matters of questionable agreeability. A consequence of greedy activity may be inability to sustain any of the costs or burdens associated with that which has been or is being accumulated, leading to a backfire or destruction, whether of self or more generally. So, the level of "inordinance" of greed pertains to the amount of vanity, malice or burden associated with it.

Trickle down economics.

However it doesn't apply to Democrat politians, Hollywood or other lefties of means... like the Kennedies... because its not greed when THEY do it.

How many elderly are there (over what age is considered elderly?), and what percentage of those have this wealth?

i.e., total elderly = ? wealthy elderly = ?

As a percentage, a lot more than the youth who are trying to survive the ObamaEconomy.. the ones the Dems think will pay for this whole Ponzi scheme . Not only that... since the Baby boomers decided to off their babies ,there are fewer of these unemployed and underemployed millennials to support them .

since the Baby boomers decided to off their babies ,there are fewer of these unemployed and underemployed millennials to support them .
That's not why. Family size has gotten smaller and not because of abortion. Many women my age wanted more kids, but the husbands claimed they couldn't afford more, so we women read books at night instead of...you know.

As a percentage, a lot more than the youth who are trying to survive the ObamaEconomy.
We old people are trying to dig out of the Bush Economy. Here are your elderly income stats (gee, where should I jet to this weekend?) --

Profile of Older Americans: 2012 (http://www.aoa.gov/Aging_Statistics/Profile/2012/9.aspx)

We old people are trying to dig out of the Bush Economy. Here are your elderly income stats (gee, where should I jet to this weekend?) --

Profile of Older Americans: 2012 (http://www.aoa.gov/Aging_Statistics/Profile/2012/9.aspx)

Those are interesting, but still there are some with little income, which with availability of SS, etc, begs the question, why?

Since most are retired ,there would be a skewed stat about income. Even the Compost recognizes that when measuring wealth ,the elderly over all are doing better than the population at large.
Senior citizens? financial woes are exaggerated - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-13/opinions/35491984_1_household-wealth-senior-citizens-paul-ryan)
Pew confirms what I'm saying .
The Rising Age Gap in Economic Well-Being | Pew Social & Demographic Trends (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/11/07/the-rising-age-gap-in-economic-well-being/)

The typical U.S. household headed by a person 65 years of age or older is 47 times wealthier than that of a household headed by someone under 35.

Since most are retired ,there would be a skewed stat about income. Even the Compost recognizes that when measuring wealth ,the elderly over all are doing better than the population at large.
Senior citizens? financial woes are exaggerated - Washington Post (http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-08-13/opinions/35491984_1_household-wealth-senior-citizens-paul-ryan)
Pew confirms what I'm saying .
The Rising Age Gap in Economic Well-Being | Pew Social & Demographic Trends (http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2011/11/07/the-rising-age-gap-in-economic-well-being/)

The typical U.S. household headed by a person 65 years of age or older is 47 times wealthier than that of a household headed by someone under 35.

Ok so the stats show 3% with income less than $5,000. Under your theory then as these are better off than the average community there must be vast numbers with income below $5000. Not much of a utopia is it, if the old people hog all the wealth. Just think having an income of $5,000, the luxury

While we are discussing old people stats consider these

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-28/australians-on-newstart-await-better-life-on-age-pension/5051082

We have lots of old people who would like just a basic pension

Those are interesting, but still there are some with little income, which with availability of SS, etc, begs the question, why?
Some people never had SS taken out of their income (part-time or because of the occupation), some never worked for pay (housewives/mothers), etc. For instance, my mom has no SS and is dependent on a portion of my deceased father's very small pension.

Some people never had SS taken out of their income (part-time or because of the occupation), some never worked for pay (housewives/mothers), etc. For instance, my mom has no SS and is dependent on a portion of my deceased father's very small pension.

Right, no universal right to a pension then?

Right, no universal right to a pension then?
Pension depends on the company you worked for. She never worked outside the home (except for a few months of picking peaches and apples at local orchards), and no, no universal pension.

Pension depends on the company you worked for. She never worked outside the home (except for a few months of picking peaches and apples at local orchards), and no, no universal pension.

Yes I think I understand the peculiarities of scrap heap thinking. We take a different view, having removed basic entitlement from the prerogative of the employer. Terminology plays a part here in gaining a meeting of the minds. Social Security here gives rise to an aged pension, the qualification is associated with citizenship not employment, the contributions were long ago rolled into the taxation system. Employment based schemes are termed superannuation and give rise to what are termed allocated pensions. There is a mandatory superannuation contribution required of an employer, which gives rise to a personal account held in trust by the government through nominated organisations.(in your world 401k, I think)

This approach carries through into our thinking about health care

Social Security used to be held in trust by our government... at least until the Johnson administration... now they spend it all on everything but SSI.

Proof you can't trust politicians with your money.

Social Security used to be held in trust by our government... at least until the Johnson administration... now they spend it all on everything but SSI.
We'll just call in the IOUs. :)

Social Security used to be held in trust by our government... at least until the Johnson administration... now they spend it all on everything but SSI.

Proof you can't trust politicians with your money.

Yes some politicians are spendthrifts but raiding grandma's pantry is unnecessary when you can print all the money you want

We'll just call in the IOUs. :)

They aren't worth the paper they are written on...

Yes some politicians are spendthrifts but raiding grandma's pantry is unnecessary when you can print all the money you want

Exactly...

Even NBC News now admits that the emperor is a F~n liar!

Obama admin. knew millions could not keep their health insurance - Investigations (http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite)

It's not a big stretch to surmise that if the truth was known when the law was being passed ,the level of popular support (which was always a questionable stat ) would not have been near where the Obots claim it is /was .

So you have a bad case of polispeak, get over it

More than that... more like 'the big lie '.. the MAIN selling point of this monstrosity .

"The great masses will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one" (Hitler )

More than that... more like 'the big lie '.. the MAIN selling point of this monstrosity .

"The great masses will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one" (Hitler )

And yet after the big lie is exposed the admin is blaming insurance companies. Obviously the left thinks we're stupid.

The insurance companies knew of this too and knew they had millions of junk bare bones insurance policies out there.

Many small insurance companies have been going out of business the last few years because of the new law, and people weren't happy that those small premium policies had few or inadequate coverages. You know as well as I do that most people liked their insurance until they had to use it. Then they didn't like it after they were denied services, or had to pay out of pocket for the services they needed, or kicked out altogether.

One of the biggest flaws in this roll out as I see it is failure to articulate the need to examine what you have been paying for and what you have been getting from your insurance policies because in the past the government wasn't around to tell consumers they were and would be screwed by what they like so much.

My whole problem with the ACA is it still has a for profit private company between you and your doctor, and that's the incentive for higher profits driving higher costs. it's a small step in the right direction. I never saw this as a final solution, nor a quick fix. But the best feature is the oversight and regulations on the insurance industry that's been sorely needed to reign in the gouging and egregious past practices that's been going on for decades and sets a minimum standard for the quality of a service consumers NEED to protect them and their families.

We all want lower prices, but it's unrealistic in face of the price of everything is going up, NOT down.

Junk bare bone plans ? That's what you think millions of Americans purchased ? Maybe some of them were.. maybe some of the changes were as obscure as deductible changes. But let's assume you are right. That means millions of Americans wanted those so called bare bone plans. But that's not good enough for the masters of the universe who can dictate the level of coverage as they micromanage every aspect of our lives.

Give it up, Tal, we were fed a big lie and we're aren't buying this shifting the blame BS.

Junk bare bone plans ? That's what you think millions of Americans purchased ? Maybe some of them were.. maybe some of the changes were as obscure as deductible changes. But let's assume you are right. That means millions of Americans wanted those so called bare bone plans. But that's not good enough for the masters of the universe who can dictate the level of coverage as they micromanage every aspect of our lives.

No, no, no tom, they don't want ANY aspect of abortion managed.

Hello again, tom:
That means millions of Americans wanted those so called bare bone plans.What those plans DON'T cover, you and I DO, and we DO it the ER - the MOST expensive way we know how. Look. If it didn't cost ME anything, I'd agree. Buyer beware..

But, it DOES... And, it costs me BIG.

excon

You liked those greasy tacos until you find out you are eating stray cat meat.

And you think people responsible enough to buy health insurance don't pay their bills, that the taxpayer picks up the tab? Get real, ex.

You liked those greasy tacos until you find out you are eating stray cat meat.

So force us to buy $300 tacos next.

Hello again, Steve:

And you think people responsible enough to buy health insurance don't pay their bills, that the taxpayer picks up the tab? Get real, ex.Sure they will, if they can. But, you gotta ask yourself, if those plans PAY for MOST things, then they wouldn't be bare bones, would they? But, they DON'T. It's MY bet that the bare bones policies'll PAY for the cheap stuff, but NOT the big ticket items. That's how they make their money... But, they don't pay for the REAL expensive stuff, like cancer.

You and I do. Get real, speech.

excon

Hello again, Steve:
Sure they will, if they can. But, you gotta ask yourself, if those plans PAY for MOST things, then they wouldn't be bare bones, would they? But, they DON'T. It's MY bet that the bare bones policies'll PAY for the cheap stuff, but NOT the big ticket items. That's how they make their money... But, they don't pay for the REAL expensive stuff, like cancer.

You and I do. Get real, speech.

excon

Sorry, you're punishing responsible people and that's wrong. You're forcing people to buy something they don't want and can't afford and that's wrong. We were fed a huge lie (http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/28/21213547-obama-admin-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite) over and over again and that's wrong. The government tried to hide the costs which added to their disastrous rollout and have lied to us over and over about it and that's wrong (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wrong).

So force us to buy $300 tacos next.

That's kind of silly since your choice is to eat cat tacos or pig tacos, or beef tacos.

Since YOU have insurance YOU like and have made the choice to keep it. Why don't you let everybody weigh their own options and see what works best for them. Glitches and roll out deficiencies aside, and politics, you cannot deny people need health care choices.

But you would deny others having a choice that YOU have already made for yourself. Looking for a name for that.

Hey if you like cat tacos keep eating them, just please don't invite me for lunch!

That's kind of silly since your choice is to eat cat tacos or pig tacos, or beef tacos.

What's silly is you think we eat cat tacos and are stupid.


Since YOU have insurance YOU like and have made the choice to keep it. Why don't you let everybody weigh their own options and see what works best for them. Glitches and roll out deficiencies aside, and politics, you cannot deny people need health care choices.

But you would deny others having a choice that YOU have already made for yourself. Looking for a name for that.

Hey if you like cat tacos keep eating them, just please don't invite me for lunch!

What part of this don't you get?


Sorry, you're punishing responsible people and that's wrong. You're forcing people to buy something they don't want and can't afford and that's wrong. We were fed a huge lie over and over again and that's wrong. The government tried to hide the costs which added to their disastrous rollout and have lied to us over and over about it and that's wrong.

Moderator note

RESIZE YOUR PICTURE

Hello smoothy:
RESIZE YOUR PICTURE

That's no mistake, smoothy.. It really IS that big.

excon

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
What's silly is you think we eat cat tacos and are stupid.

Not stupid, just unaware. Trusting without verifying. I wouldn't question what you served for lunch because I trust you.

Raise your awareness and at least acknowledge that Insurance companies past practice is anything but above board and was unfair gouging that had to change. You have yet to come up with a good idea that addresses what has allowed to go on for decades.

To go back to that exploitation is unacceptable. I reject that notion and so has America. Get with the program and stop making stuff up about how everybody just LOVES their junk insurance. When the sticker price shock wears off those folks will be pissed they fell for the snake oil for years. But as usual you think because those insurance companies admit no wrong doing they are the victims of government over reach and harsh regulation.

Keep ignoring the documented victims that go way back to before you were even born.

Not stupid, just unaware. Trusting without verifying

Gee, and how did we get to this mess? Seriously? Bwa ha ha ha!

It's an ongoing process to make changes that benefit. Would you tell a surgeon to stop saving lives because he lost a patient after doing all he could?

Of course not, learn and strive to do better. Takes time. Maybe forever, maybe NEVER. Sometimes you just have to be grateful for little things, like catching a powerhouse fantasy team going through a major bye week, and hoping for the best while planning for the worst.

It's an ongoing process to make changes that benefit. Would you tell a surgeon to stop saving lives because he lost a patient after doing all he could?

Of course not, learn and strive to do better. Takes time. Maybe forever, maybe NEVER. Sometimes you just have to be grateful for little things, like catching a powerhouse fantasy team going through a major bye week, and hoping for the best while planning for the worst.

Apparently you miss the irony of an Obama supporter not only lecturing us on "Trusting without verifying", but doing so on an Obamacare thread. Now that's a jaw dropper.

Dude, I may not be a fan of Reagan's or Bush, but have to give them credit where its due on the GOOD things they did. Doesn't matter where I am, or whom I am with.

Moderator note

RESIZE YOUR PICTURE

That picture wasn't too big... and besides I don't own it or host it so I don't have that option .

I'm guessing its contents hit home all too well.

and besides I don't own it or host it so I don't have that option .For someone who claims computer expertise that made me laugh. It would have taken me all of 20 seconds to save, crop, and add as attachment here.

For someone who claims computer expertise that made me laugh. It would have taken me all of 20 seconds to save, crop, and add as attachment here.

Except for some reason I don't have the option to upload a photo to this site as an attachment... and never have.

I have to link one hosted through a third party.

I know perfectly well how to resize a photo...that I own (to upload as an attachment)...or that I host.

That picture wasn't too big... and besides I don't own it or host it so I don't have that option .

I'm guessing its contents hit home all too well.

Naw, wrong again, it was throwing off the sites setting.

Under HOME>FAQ>

How do I add pictures and other file types to my post?

A. "Attach" files (including pictures) from your computer. This method puts the attached file below the text of the post.

Click on an Ask or Answer button to ask or answer a question
Compose your question or answer in the window.
Under the window where you composed your question or answer is a section called Additional Options.
Click on the Manage Attachments button: a pop-up dialog will open. NOTE: The Manage Attachments dialog lists the maximum sizes of the various types of files that may be attached.
Click the Browse button to navigate to the image on your computer and double click the file on your computer: this will return you to the dialog window.
Click the Upload button.
Click the link to close the dialog window OR repeat numbers 5 & 6 to attach another image.
B. "Embed" image(s) from the internet. This method inserts an image wherever you wish within the text of your post.

Click the Insert Image icon above the posting window: A pop-up asking for the URL will open.
Enter the URL of the image in the field then click the OK button.

Naw, wrong again, it was throwing off the sites setting.

Under HOME>FAQ>

How do I add pictures and other file types to my post?

A. "Attach" files (including pictures) from your computer. This method puts the attached file below the text of the post.

Click on an Ask or Answer button to ask or answer a question
Compose your question or answer in the window.
Under the window where you composed your question or answer is a section called Additional Options.
Click on the Manage Attachments button: a pop-up dialog will open. NOTE: The Manage Attachments dialog lists the maximum sizes of the various types of files that may be attached.
Click the Browse button to navigate to the image on your computer and double click the file on your computer: this will return you to the dialog window.
Click the Upload button.
Click the link to close the dialog window OR repeat numbers 5 & 6 to attach another image.
B. "Embed" image(s) from the internet. This method inserts an image wherever you wish within the text of your post.

Click the Insert Image icon above the posting window: A pop-up asking for the URL will open.
Enter the URL of the image in the field then click the OK button.

Excpet that I actually don't have an option to manage attachments... and I never have the entire time I've been a member here..

I guess thats something I have to bring up to one of the admins later today....because the mask for my user account doesn't have that enabled for whatever reason....could have been a corruption issue from the very beginning. Every photo I've checked out here posted by others has been linked from an offsite host. Not saying none are posted as attachments...I just haven't seen the code in the post that would indicate it.

A lot of sites don't allow it because of how it bloats the server requirements....I never heard anyone here say they could before today.

Sure you do, hit go advance, instead of submit, and scroll down to manage attachments.

Yup, here's the screen shot. Now if we just add text after the attachment.

Yup, here's the screen shot. Now if we just add text after the attachment.

I'll PM Curlyben and find out why I don't have that option come up for me rather than take up pages of this thread. I know all the admin settings on this software.....and something isn't checked off that should be (yes you can do it at group or even individual levels).....not a huge issue or a time consuming one. Certainly not worth taking up into the second page of posts on it anyway.

.

I even have it in the old "blue" skin, though you have to select "Go Advanced".

I apologize Smoothy as sometimes I forget the different skins that we use on this site. Thanks, Steve, NK, for pointing that out.

Oh the irony just continues as sticker shock keeps making it's reality known.


Obamacare jacks up her insurance (http://www.suntimes.com/news/marin/23352031-452/obamacare-jacks-up-her-insurance.html)

By CAROL MARIN

Last Modified: Oct 27, 2013 02:38AM
Sue Klinkhamer has a problem.

It’s called Obamacare.

And the irony of her situation is not lost on her. In a recent email addressed to her former boss, Illinois Congressman Bill Foster, and other Democratic colleagues, she wrote:

“I spent two years defending Obamacare. I had constituents scream at me, spit at me and call me names that I can’t put in print. The congressman was not re-elected in 2010 mainly because of the anti-Obamacare anger. When the congressman was not re-elected, I also (along with the rest of our staff) lost my job. I was upset that because of the health care issue, I didn’t have a job anymore but still defended Obamacare because it would make health care available to everyone at, what I assumed, would be an affordable price. I have now learned that I was wrong. Very wrong.”

For Klinkhamer, 60, President Obama’s oft-repeated words ring in her ears: “If you like your health plan, you will keep it.”

Well, possibly not.

When Klinkhamer lost her congressional job, she had to buy an individual policy on the open market.

Three years ago, it was $225 a month with a $2,500 deductible. Each year it went up a little to, as of Sept. 1, $291 with a $3,500 deductible. Then, a few weeks ago, she got a letter.

“Blue Cross,” she said, “stated my current coverage would expire on Dec. 31, and here are my options: I can have a plan with similar benefits for $647.12 [or] I can have a plan with similar [but higher] pricing for $322.32 but with a $6,500 deductible.”

She went on, “Blue Cross also tells me that if I don’t pick one of the options, they will just assume I want the one for $647. ... Someone please tell me why my premium in January will be $356 more than in December?”

The sticker shock Klinkhamer is experiencing is something millions of individual policyholders are reeling from having gotten similar letters from their private insurers.

As UCLA Public Policy expert Dr. Gerald F. Kominski told CBS News this week, “Half of the 14 million people who buy insurance on their own are not going to keep the policies they previously had.”

Part of the reason those policies will be more expensive, he explained, is that Obamacare is requiring insurers to offer “a better product with better protection.”

Congressman Foster, Klinkhamer’s former boss who has since been returned to Congress, told me by phone Friday, “A very large number of people are very grateful” for Obamacare.

No doubt about that.

But right now Sue Klinkhamer, no novice to government or public policy, isn’t among them.

“I am a Democrat and I believe in health care for all,” she said.

“And I was excited that previously uninsured people could now get insurance on the open market. But this is not affordable to me.”

Klinkhamer suggests renaming the Affordable Care Act.

“Just call it,” she said dryly, “the Available Care Act.”

What's odd is this silly argument that the new crap sandwich is better than the "Junk bare bone plans" we who are too stupid to know what's in our own interest (http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2013/10/28/krauthammer_jay_carney_is_saying_youre_too_stupid_ to_understand_what_you_want.html) had.

So 'splain to me why those "junk bare bones" plans we liked are doubling in price if they're so bad? Why, I can spend half as much and get better insurance with the same company!!!

This from one of the least biased polls....

42% Identify with Obama Politically, 42% with the Tea Party - Rasmussen Reports™ (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_politics/october_2013/42_identify_with_obama_politically_42_with_the_tea _party)

History tells us whatever that great price was you never know what you have until you use it, and many were shocked then too. We also have those that were shocked when the were dropped after YEARS of paying premiums when they finally NEEDED that insurance.

Why ignore those shocked people and only acknowledge the new current ones. People, we have many people caught up in the insurance company scam.

History tells us whatever that great price was you never know what you have until you use it,

Right, because we all know most companies sell their junk products for twice the price of their premium stuff.

Right, because we all know most companies sell their junk products for twice the price of their premium stuff.
That's why it's good to be a wise consumer. Caveat emptor.

You got that right. Both of you.

So let me get this straight, those greedy b*stard insurance companies putting profit over people are intentionally selling their premium plans at half the price of their junk. And you think we're too stupid to know what's in our best interest? Bwa ha ha!

You see ,we need the nanny state because we are too stupid to makes decisions for ourselves .

You see ,we need the nanny state because we are too stupid to makes decisions for ourselves .

We must be, we're too stupid to buy the premium plans at half the price of the junk they're selling.

We must be, we're too stupid to buy the premium plans at half the price of the junk they're selling.
BC/BS and Aetna and United Heath Care are selling junk?

So let me get this straight, those greedy b*stard insurance companies putting profit over people are intentionally selling their premium plans at half the price of their junk. And you think we're too stupid to know what's in our best interest? Bwa ha ha!

Not stupid, unaware. Who reads the fine print? Stupid is thinking they want to serve you, and have your interest at heart above their PROFITS.

Not stupid, unaware. Who reads the fine print? Stupid is thinking they want to serve you, and have your interest at heart above their PROFITS.
Stupid is believing that the government is serving your best interests .

Stupid is believing that the government is serving your best interests .
Like in March 2003?

Not stupid, unaware. Who reads the fine print? Stupid is thinking they want to serve you, and have your interest at heart above their PROFITS.

Stupid people don't read the fine print... and take the snake oil salesman at his word. And 18 year old doing it might be naive... but a 38 year old doing it is plain stupid.

Particularly when 99% of it IS fine print.

Not stupid, unaware. Who reads the fine print? Stupid is thinking they want to serve you, and have your interest at heart above their PROFITS.

Once again the irony goes right over your head. Businesses have to serve to make a profit and survive, the government just takes what it wants without regard to your interests.

What you live in the Nazi state, the Communist state? Your government can only take what your representatives let it, the fault therefore lies with the people who elect these shining examples of democracy

What you live in the Nazi state, the Communist state? Your government can only take what your representatives let it, the fault therefore lies with the people who elect these shining examples of democracy

I can't explain why people keep vote certain ways, but I guess you've missed where the people didn't want obamacare and those Dem a$$holes forced it on us anyway.

I can't explain why people keep vote certain ways, but I guess you've missed where the people didn't want obamacare and those Dem a$$holes forced it on us anyway.

Well if that were so your Supreme Court should have struck down the law. They didn't do that. Now either your lawyers were inept, your judges corrupt, or you just don't accept that both houses passed a version of the bill, what didn't happen was the reconciliation process. Obama may have been hasty, but apparently what he did wasn't illegal.

We can go all over the fact that some parts of the Law could have been better drafted and some could have been better implemented but an election clearly demonstrated that the people left the Presindent in office

Hello again, Steve:

Dem a$$holes forced it on us anyway.Let's review, shall we??? Here, in THIS great country, we pass laws with a majority of our elected officials... And, THAT'S exactly what we did. I don't call following our beloved Constitution forcing ANYTHING on ANYBODY.

It's the Republican a$$holes who don't understand how our country works.

excon

PS> By the way... What about those Republican A$$HOLES in the states who're ramming abortion laws down our throats... I'll bet you call THAT democracy in action, don't you???

I get how it works, they're supposed to listen to the people. Which side listened to their constituents, the Obamacare a$$holes or the abortion a$$holes?

Obviously we have different constituents. Why should Obama listen to YOUR constituents rather than the ones who put him back in office?

What you thought the TParty was the only constituents? No wonder you don't understand why people voted the way they did.

They listened to the candidates, voted, you lost. Why is that so hard to accept?

Obviously we have different constituents. Why should Obama listen to YOUR constituents rather than the ones who put him back in office?

What you thought the TParty was the only constituents? No wonder you don't understand why people voted the way they did.

They listened to the candidates, voted, you lost. Why is that so hard to accept?

This has nothing to do with any election, it's the fact that the majority of the country said NO to Obamacare and Dems passed it anyway with no attempt at bipartisan support. That's rather dictatorial, not democratic.

It has everything to do with elections as you had a chance to repeal the ACA just by electing Romney. You failed. Elections are they way it works around here so win a few. Don't act like it ain't so.

2014 is your next shot. Good Luck.

Nahh Dems don't believe that ,if they can't get what they want in elections ,they use obscure parliamentary procedures ,then they try the courts .When that don't work ,they use the bureaucracy . They have an emperor who changes laws outside of the constitutional way of laws being created and changed in Congress. THEY NEVER GIVE UP AND ACCEPT THAT ELECTIONS HAVE DECIDED ANYTHING .

I've been listening to hearings for 2 days now . Haven't yet heard an honest answer from anyone testifying as to how many people have actually successfully enrolled ,or even tried to enroll. The contractors claimed they were under contractual restrictions from disclosing that info to Congress... and Sebelius is stonewalling as I type .

Hello again, Steve:

This has nothing to do with any election, it's the fact that the majority of the country said NO to Obamacare and Dems passed it anywayLet's review, shall we???

Not long ago we had a national election.. It was an ACCURATE bellwether of what the people want, because EVERYBODY was involved. If you recall, Obamacare WAS an issue in that race. One of the candidates said he'd REPEAL Obamacare on his first day in office.

He lost, and, he lost BIG!

excon

Hello again, Steve:
Let's review, shall we???

Not long ago we had a national election.. It was an ACCURATE bellwether of what the people want, because EVERYBODY was involved. If you recall, Obamacare WAS an issue in that race. One of the candidates said he'd REPEAL Obamacare on his first day in office.

He lost, and, he lost BIG!

excon

Let's review, what put Obama over the top was not Obamacare. I think much of it had to with your manufactured war on women, not to mention the media cheerleaders and all those precious, but clueless young people who are getting a reality check about now.


President Obama's tactical victory is clear when you look at the election returns. He has no grand mandate (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57546189/how-obama-won-four-more-years/) that comes out of Tuesday's numbers. He has been re-elected, but his policies did not win the day. Voters didn't turn their faces up to the vision he painted they way they did in 2008. When voters were asked which candidate had a vision for the future, Romney won that question in exit polls, 55 percent to 43 percent. Asked about Obama's signature achievement, health care, voters did not approve. Forty-nine percent said they wanted it repealed in part or whole. Voters also said the federal government was too large.

Voters are deeply divided by race and age. The president can credit strong support from women. He led by 11 percentage points among women, while Romney led by 7 points among men. There was also an Obama advantage among younger voters. He grabbed a majority of those under 45. Older voters broke for Romney. Obama lost the white vote by a larger margin than in 2008 when he got 43 percent of the vote. On Tuesday, he got just 40 percent of the white vote. They represented virtually the same share of the electorate as before. But Obama made up for that deficit by winning handily with minorities which represented an ever so slightly larger share of the vote.

You can dispense with the spin, we're not stupid.

Bush got his tax cuts through parliamentary tricks.

The Fiscal Cliff We All Saw Coming - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-08-02/the-fiscal-cliff-we-all-saw-coming)


Those other priorities were more important to voters than lower taxes. In 2001, the Pew Research Center found that 37 percent of Americans preferred to use the surplus to fund Social Security and Medicare, 23 percent for domestic spending, and only 19 percent for a tax cut. Even after selling the idea as a way to give back part of the surplus, Republicans couldn't bring on enough Democrats to pass it. To do so they resorted to reconciliation, the same parliamentary trick Democrats would use in 2010 to pass health-care reform. That allowed Republicans to get around a threatened filibuster, but Senate rules don't allow bills passed by reconciliation to create deficits more than 10 years in the future. Thus, the 10-year expiration date.


By the next year, things had gotten very serious. The economy had slowed, and a war was on the way. There were no more surpluses to play with. In 2002 the federal government ran a deficit of $158 billion. The White House began a push for more tax cuts, this time justifying them as a stimulus

Just to give accuracy of how the government works by YOUR side, and mine. Because YOU guys FAILED doesn't mean we will. I mean you cost us 24 billion with a shutdown after bringing about a credit down grade, that raised interest rates on the debt. Both have negative global implications.

My conclusion is you guys can't count.

Let's review, what put Obama over the top was not Obamacare. I think much of it had to with your manufactured war on women, not to mention the media cheerleaders and all those precious, but clueless young people who are getting a reality check about now.



You can dispense with the spin, we're not stupid.

So everybody is stupid but YOU guys?

So everybody is stupid but YOU guys?

Nope, we aren't the ones treating Americans like they're stupid and helpless.

I've been listening to hearings for 2 days now . Haven't yet heard an honest answer from anyone testifying as to how many people have actually successfully enrolled ,or even tried to enroll. The contractors claimed they were under contractual restrictions from disclosing that info to Congress... and Sebelius is stonewalling as I type .

They all said you get the numbers in November. But they keep asking for the numbers over and over and getting the same answer.

Why should a member of Congress wait ? The numbers are available except for the stonewalling .

You mean why should republicans wait? Because we all know they just want something to pounce on. So wait for it. You been pouncing on stuff for three solid weeks already.

Curb your enthusiasm. Your seek and destroy mentality is disgusting. Past FAILURE is frustrating I know.

You mean why should republicans wait? Because we all know they just want something to pounce on. So wait for it. You been pouncing on stuff for three solid weeks already.

Curb your enthusiasm. Your seek and destroy mentality is disgusting. Past FAILURE is frustrating I know.

And your aversion to transparency is even more disturbing. I'm tired of being lied to.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-grandfathered-health-plan/


If you are covered by a plan that existed March 23, 2010, your plan may be "grandfathered." You may not get some rights and protections that other plans offer.

Grandfathered plans

Grandfathered plans are those that were in existence on March 23, 2010 and have stayed basically the same. But they can enroll people after that date and still maintain their grandfathered status. In other words, even if you joined a grandfathered plan after March 23, 2010, the plan may still be grandfathered. The status depends on when the plan was created, not when you joined it.

How to find out if your plan is grandfathered
•
Check your plan's materials: Health plans must disclose if they are grandfathered in all materials describing plan benefits. They must offer contact information.
•
Check with your employer or your health plan's benefits administrator.

What grandfathered plans do and don't have to cover

Here's a quick look at the consumer protections that do and don't apply to grandfathered plans:

All health plans must:
•End lifetime limits on coverage
•End arbitrary cancellations of health coverage
•Cover adult children up to age 26
•Provide a Summary of Benefits and Coverage (SBC), a short, easy-to-understand summary of what a plan covers and costs
•Hold insurance companies accountable to spend your premiums on health care, not administrative costs and bonuses

Grandfathered plans DON'T have to:
•Cover preventive care for free
•Guarantee your right to appeal
•Protect your choice of doctors and access to emergency care
•Be held accountable through Rate Review for excessive premium increases

In addition to the above, grandfathered individual health insurance plans (the kind you buy yourself, not the kind you get from an employer) don't have to:
•End yearly limits on coverage
•Cover you if you have a pre-existing health condition

Note: Some grandfathered plans offer protections they're not required to. Check with your insurance company or benefits administrator to learn if your grandfathered plan offers the rights and protections listed above.

Its up to insurance companies to administer grand fathered plans, so go talk to them about why they lied about not letting you keep what you like.

https://www.healthcare.gov/what-if-i-have-a-grandfathered-health-plan/



Its up to insurance companies to administer grand fathered plans, so go talk to them about why they lied about not letting you keep what you like.

And this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3577974-post360.html) bears repeating, stop shifting the blame and treating us like fools. They knew most plans would not be grandfathered.

And I might add, the regime's old tactic of intimidation is apparently back.

WH Intimidates Insurance Companies Not to Publicly Criticize Obamacare | The Weekly Standard (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-intimidates-insurance-companies-not-publicly-criticize-obamacare_765582.html)

I might point out you are acting loony going back and forth on two threads. Take a break... BREATH!

I might point out you are acting loony going back and forth on two threads. Take a break... BREATH!

It's you repeating the same lies about "grandfathered" plans on two threads, you give it a break.

The emperor KNEW that ObamaCare would force the withdrawal of millions of insurance plans 3 years ago and still he repeatedly spewed his big lie.

The emperor KNEW that ObamaCare would force the withdrawal of millions of insurance plans 3 years ago and still he repeatedly spewed his big lie.

Yes, and we were called loons for saying this since the beginning... despite the fact its written into the act that almost all older plans can not be grandfathered...

Just this week have the Drive by media started saying anything about it... its obvious they are as dense as granite because they have been calling everyone liars until now and act like it's a new revelation.

Since the beginning they have been claiming everyone could keep their doctors and insurance just like their handlers told them to.

Since the beginning they have been claiming everyone could keep their doctors and insurance just like their handlers told them to.
I've still got my insurance and doctor. My son, a private payer, does too. No changes at my house.

I've still got my insurance and doctor. My son, a private payer, does too. No changes at my house.

You are aware none of this actually takes effect until Jan 1... right?And Everyone that got cancellation notices had policies that expire in January 2014....there is still everyone who's policies that expire Feb thru Dec 2014 that will be getting cancellation notices over the next 12 months. When does yours expire?. Almost NO policies in effect right now qualify...and if there are ANY changes to anything then under the law they HAVE to be canceled, changes in coverage, changes in deductibles, rates, copys ANY change and it can't legally be continued.

Its written into Obamacare very explicitly to force everyone OFF their existing policies. Nancy Pelosi and Obama should have told you if they weren't trying to hide it.

Tal... You said you was able to register and everything... have you heard all your personal information is up there on a site that has absolutely ZERO encryption or ANY security what-so-ever?


Yes thats right....that government website is completely and utterly devoid of ANY security what-so-ever.....and its your people that admitted to that.

You better hope the Hackers of the world don't get that information and commit identity theft with it....if that happens (heaven forbid) you have Obama and your own party to thank for it.

You are aware none of this actually takes effect until Jan 1... right?And Everyone that got cancellation notices had policies that expire in January 2014....there is still everyone who's policies that expire Feb thru Dec 2014 that will be getting cancellation notices over the next 12 months. When does yours expire?. Almost NO policies in effect right now qualify...and if there are ANY changes to anything then under the law they HAVE to be canceled, changes in coverage, changes in deductibles, rates, copys ANY change and it can't legally be continued.

Its written into Obamacare very explicitly to force everyone OFF their existing policies. Nancy Pelosi and Obama should have told you if they weren't trying to hide it.

And the coup de gras will begin when the employer mandate begins to go into effect . The “Cadillac Tax”, which will hammer companies with a 40 % excise tax beginning in 2018.

coup de grasIt's actually "coup de grâce". Coup de "gras" means a blow from fat. :)

Ooops

No Fau Paux or was that Fau Gras

It's "faux pas".

Sure its not a PHO PAW?

Foie gras?

The latest from President "the buck stops there" sounds like he's been getting his talking points from AMHD, Obamacare is just weeding out those bad apple insurance companies.

Obama blames ‘bad apple insurers’ for canceled insurance plans (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/10/30/obama-blames-bad-apple-insurers-for-canceled-insurance-plans/)

It's simple America, it's not a broken promise if he never intended to keep it, everyone but Obama, the Dems that passed it, wrote it and implemented it is to blame for the incompetence and it doesn't matter if you liked your plan, could afford it and wanted to keep it because you're too stupid to know what you want.

Where does the incompetence lie if this legislation was enacted by the House and the Senate, Obama may have signed it but he wasn't its author

Hello again, Steve:
it doesn't matter if you liked your plan, could afford it and wanted to keep it because you're too stupid to know what you want.In this great country of ours, it's NOT illegal to buy a $400 car that isn't road worthy. It IS, however, ILLEGAL to put it on the road. We made it illegal, because people ARE very, very, STUPID.

Look. We've talked about the states that offer low cost cheap insurance. They have them because THOSE states have insurance commissioners who are friendly to the insurance INDUSTRY instead of the populace. Those states offer CHEAP insurance that your side thinks EVERYBODY should have, because they bring down the cost of healthcare...

But, if they don't really cover you when you get sick, they're not worth much... Basically, they're not "road worthy". When they break down, YOU and I pick up the difference. Now, I understand letting the free market reign. In fact, I'm a free marketeer.. But, when these policy's FAIL, the people go to the ER to get the MOST EXPENSIVE CARE there is, and YOU and I pay for it.. That is ANYTHING but the free market at work. It's you and me subsidizing the MOST EXPENSIVE HEALTH CARE THERE IS... As a card carrying right winger, that should really piss you off. But, it doesn't appear to. Why?

Now, are the people who BUY these policies STUPID??? No, of course not. They're DESPERATE. Come on, Steve. It's absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to make an apples to apples comparison when buying insurance.. I'm NOT stupid, but I have NO idea whether I have a good policy or not. In my booklet, there's 25 pages of exceptions, and things they DON'T cover. Nahhh.. I tossed a coin and bought what I THINK is ok, but I HAVE NO IDEA...

Look. I know this is the most recent right wing outrage, only to be replaced with another, and yet another, and even another, given that you're like a pit bull with his jaw clenched on a leg.

But, this outrage too, will be proven to be a lot of hot air about nothing. I say again, when all the chaff is cleared away, people will LOVE Obamacare, just like they do Medicare and Social Security.

excon

How do you ignore the horror stories of people getting sick and finding out the insurance they have been paying for years doesn't cover their sickness? That was before Obama Care happened, and it was more the normal business practice to cap, limit, and discard policy holders.

How do you just dismiss the decades that people were rejected from buying insurance because they had medical issues?

You make a big deal of people losing insurance they like, but most will find out when they need it what they have. Then they won't like it. Yeah its great to be healthy, but we all know we have little control over sudden life changing events. How would you like to be a female who gets pregnant and that insurance you have had for a year doesn't cover maternity care, or hospital visits?

Simply saying you like what you have because its cheap and not needed at this time shouldn't stop you from looking at it objectively, nor objectively explore ALL your options, which you didn't have before.

Like what ways you can get a more comprehensive plan and if it can be subsidized to help pay for it. I guarantee those with sticker shock haven't explored those and are reacting out of that sticker shock, and haven't looked at what's out there (YET! ).

Bottom line, make sure you know what you have before you say how much you like it.

Another point is the number of people so affected by this "change" in policies you SAY you like, which so far is less than one in ten insured Americans, and a full 75% of those will mitigate that sticker shock with tax credits IMMEDIATELY. So I think we should make sure we have all the facts and not jump to a decision because of scary feelings.

Nobody has asked any of those people that can no longer keep what they like if they have even looked to see if they had better options available that they like more. Just hype over getting that letter that DIDN"T explain a damn thing they could do about it, and that's not the truth, or the fact of the matter.

Do your home work, before you holler, and I hope that sticker shock wears off soon. Then you won't be stuck on what you like but take a hard objective look at what you HAVE!

Tal do you ever get sick of talking to a wall

We aren't walls... we are people smart enough to see the liberal propaganda for what it really is... a steaming pile of bovine excrement.

Where does the incompetence lie if this legislation was enacted by the House and the Senate, Obama may have signed it but he wasn't its author

Um, I put that blame where it lies, "the Dems that passed it, wrote it."

Hello again, Steve:In this great country of ours, it's NOT illegal to buy a $400 car that isn't road worthy. It IS, however, ILLEGAL to put it on the road. We made it illegal, because people ARE very, very, STUPID.

Look. We've talked about the states that offer low cost cheap insurance. They have them because THOSE states have insurance commissioners who are friendly to the insurance INDUSTRY instead of the populace. Those states offer CHEAP insurance that your side thinks EVERYBODY should have, because they bring down the cost of healthcare..

Ex, that's bullsh*t and you of all people know it. It goes beyond all logic for an insurance company to triple the price of plan that's worse than their basic Obamacare plans. Enough already, I am not that stupid.

Where does the incompetence lie if this legislation was enacted by the House and the Senate, Obama may have signed it but he wasn't its author

Since when are you an apologist for the emperor ? I can assure you that this is exactly what the emperor wants . Reid and Madame Mimi did exactly what he wanted. All his public statements ,even before the 2008 election revealed that he wanted a transition step to fail before his utopian vision of socialized health care is implemented .

Hello again, Steve:

It goes beyond all logic for an insurance company to triple the price of plan that's worse than their basic Obamacare plans. Enough already, I am not that stupid.No, you're not stupid.. But, you ARE premature.

When all the dust settles, I have CONFIDENCE that the FREE MARKET will work. People will be able to BUY good policies at affordable prices. If it doesn't, and/or it doesn't work on OTHER levels, I'll be the first one on this board to support repeal...

But, it's much too soon to make that determination...

excon

Hello again, Steve:
No, you're not stupid.. But, you ARE premature.

When all the dust settles, I have CONFIDENCE that the FREE MARKET will work. People will be able to BUY good policies at affordable prices. If it doesn't, and/or it doesn't work on OTHER levels, I'll be the first one on this board to support repeal...

But, it's much too soon to make that determination...

excon

Possibly, but I doubt it. Meanwhile stop feeding me nonsense.

You like scaring yourself? You like deluding yourself? You like hollering and screaming as you advance your conspiracy theories. But don't think its an excuse to do NOTHING!

Without your own plans and ideas, your rhetoric is hollering. Nothing constructive in that. Now all of a sudden you support past bad practice by the insurance companies as okay, and you liked it. Cry me a river with THAT position. Oh sorry you did have a plan. But that was soundly REJECTED. So much for right wing cheerleaders. Your team is good at loud enthusiasm, but they ain't winning. Or improving their game for that matter.

And Sebelius ,doing her best Evita impersonation said "whatever". All I have to say is 'Heck of a job Kathy '!

You like scaring yourself? You like deluding yourself? You like hollering and screaming as you advance your conspiracy theories. But don't think its an excuse to do NOTHING!

Without your own plans and ideas, your rhetoric is hollering. Nothing constructive in that. Now all of a sudden you support past bad practice by the insurance companies as okay, and you liked it. Cry me a river with THAT position. Oh sorry you did have a plan. But that was soundly REJECTED. So much for right wing cheerleaders. Your team is good at loud enthusiasm, but they ain't winning. Or improving their game for that matter.

You're just pi$$ed that our warnings were not only right, but worse than imagined. You need to join the rest of America and start pointing your finger at those responsible and quit your whining and incomprehensible excuses - Americans are not buying it.

Obama loses confidence of Americans; survey shows worst rating yet - Washington Times (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/30/obama-loses-confidence-of-americans-survey-shows-w/?utm_source=RSS_Feed&utm_medium=RSS)

In December, after his re-election, the president's favorable rating was 12 percentage points higher than his unfavorable rating. By this week, however, that advantage has flipped — Mr. Obama's unfavorable rating is now 6 points higher than his favorable numbers, a wrong-way swing of 18 points.

Lets keep this in perspective here as Obama lost 6 points, but you guys lost a lot more points from Americans. Find me a survey that shows the TParty, or Republicans with higher ratings than the president. I dare ya! Hell, show me one that shows you guys are more popular than democrats!

Most Americans don't like you guys if you want an accurate statement, and maybe I am listening to AMERICANS. Romney didn't listen either.

In this great country of ours, it's NOT illegal to buy a $400 car that isn't road worthy. It IS, however, ILLEGAL to put it on the road. We made it illegal, because people ARE very, very, STUPID.

And that's exactly what is happening with this health care. People are too stupid to understand how damaging it will be to our economy.

Most Americans don't like you guys if you want an accurate statement, and maybe I am listening to AMERICANS. Romney didn't listen either.

The emperor sure invoked his name a lot yesterday in Boston.
Speaking about Boston... congrats... no town in America deserved victory more than them (and that's a lot coming from a Yankee Fan )
Dirty Water - The Standells (Original Album Version) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqKHqWaTv9g)

In this great country of ours, it's NOT illegal to buy a $400 car that isn't road worthy. It IS, however, ILLEGAL to put it on the road.

Do you even realize what you just implicated here?

Hello again, J:
Do you even realize what you just implicated here?Uhhhh, no. Why don't you clue me in?

excon

Do you even realize what you just implicated here?Yea, I don't see it either.

Lets keep this in perspective here as Obama lost 6 points, but you guys lost a lot more points from Americans. Find me a survey that shows the TParty, or Republicans with higher ratings than the president. I dare ya! Hell, show me one that shows you guys are more popular than democrats!

Most Americans don't like you guys if you want an accurate statement, and maybe I am listening to AMERICANS. Romney didn't listen either.

Most people I run across like me just fine, and ALL of Congress' ratings are in the toilet so you have no room to speak.

I concede you are right, no difference between the crap at the bottom, and the crap at the top.

But you honestly think your crap smells better? Verify that for me will you?

This is the crap (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/lifestyle/general_lifestyle/october_2013/37_say_zombies_would_do_better_job_than_federal_go v_t_37_opt_for_feds) you lefties want to force more of on us:


It’s not exactly a vote of confidence in the powers that be: A sizable number of Americans think the undead would do a better job than the brain dead in Washington, D.C.

Thirty-seven percent (37%) of American Adults believe the federal government would do a better job than zombies running the country today. But the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that most Americans don’t share that view, with just as many (37%) who feel zombies would do a better job running the country and another 26% who can’t decide between the two.

How are they representing lefties?

Well I guess we can dismiss Rasmussen as a reputable survey source.

How are they representing lefties?

What was the subject of the survey? The federal government. What is it you lefties want more of? The federal government. Try and keep up, Tal.

Well I guess we can dismiss Rasmussen as a reputable survey source.

And once again, you have no sense of humor.

What was the subject of the survey? The federal government. What is it you lefties want more of? The federal government. Try and keep up, Tal.

The federal government AND zombies to be exact. No left, no right, just the undead. You probably like zombies more than the government too.

How are they representing lefties?

Well the dead is one of the largest Dem constituencies. The undead can't be that far behind.

Look right, we have the zombie apocalypse. The walking dead.

Look right, we have the zombie apocalypse. The walking dead.

We know... Harry Reid is one of them... he looks and talks like he died a decade ago. Nancy Pelosi too...she looks like she wears a halloween mask to hide the rotting flesh undernieth.

Obama is like an eel you cut the head off of....he's brain dead but the rest of the body hasn't got the memo yet.

Let me amend my analogy to the walking talking dead for you wingers.

Let me amend my analogy to the walking talking dead for you wingers.

Tal... are you aware the "Walking dead" ARE Zombies?

Are you aware the wingers are walking talking zombies? Well maybe not Rush Limbaugh, all that wind bag does is talk.

Are you aware the wingers are walking talking zombies? Well maybe not Rush Limbaugh, all that wind bag does is talk.

Give it up Tal... EVERYONE has seen Nancy Pelosi with her plastic face and Harry doing his best Zombie impersonation.

In fact no democrat has a working brain to think for themselves... they all do and think what they are told like robots.

The website-and obamacare was designed by a bunch of libtards that have NO clue how to run anything much less 1/6 of the economy.They need 7 million young people to sign up and pay for high priced health care or the whole thing crumbles !

http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/...-insurance?lite

Now even NBC has a story that they knew all along that 16 million would be forced to loss their insurance and LIED

Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

“This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn't keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn't make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, a consultant who works for health industry firms. Laszewski estimates that 80 percent of those in the individual market will not be able to keep their current policies and will have to buy insurance that meets requirements of the new law, which generally requires a richer package of benefits than most policies today.
_________________________

I'm hearing that many with employer coverage will have their coverage cancelled. Just got word today that our meeting about next year's plan has been delayed until mid -November . Will keep you updated . I think I'm OK for now .

Obamacare just keeps getting better and better...


Top Hospitals Opt Out of Obamacare (http://health.usnews.com/health-news/hospital-of-tomorrow/articles/2013/10/30/top-hospitals-opt-out-of-obamacare)
Americans who sign up for insurance on the state exchanges may not have access to the nation's top hospitals, Watchdog.org reports.

The Obama Administration has been claiming that insurance companies will be competing for your dollars under the Affordable Care Act, but apparently they haven't surveyed the nation's top hospitals.

Americans who sign up for Obamacare will be getting a big surprise if they expect to access premium health care that may have been previously covered under their personal policies. Most of the top hospitals will accept insurance from just one or two companies operating under Obamacare.

"This doesn't surprise me," said Gail Wilensky, Medicare advisor for the second Bush Administration and senior fellow for Project HOPE. "There has been an incredible amount of focus on the premium cost and subsidy, and precious little focus on what you get for your money."

Regulations driven by the Obama White House have indeed made insurance more affordable – if, like Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, you're looking only at price. But responding to Obamacare caps on premiums, many insurers will, in turn, simply offer top-tier doctors and hospitals far less cash for services rendered.

Watchdog.org looked at the top 18 hospitals nationwide as ranked by U.S. News and World Report for 2013-2014. We contacted each hospital to determine their contracts and talked to several insurance companies, as well.

The result of our investigation: Many top hospitals are simply opting out of Obamacare.

But hey, the one percenters that wrote the law will still have the best care.

Obamacare just keeps getting better and better...



But hey, the one percenters that wrote the law will still have the best care.

Well of course, they can pay for it, with or without insurance

I have been trying to pull your coat tail for a long time, and gave you the link to the Time Magazine article written by Steven Brill several times. Hospitals have been very selective of the insurance companies they deal with for decades, and with good reason because some are very hands on as to what a doctor can and cannot do and the cost they will bare.

Part of the ACA law is it caps your out of pocket expenses based on your income. This is a good thing for consumers, especially middle class and below wage earners. What, you thought those aspirins and pain killers, and toothpaste were free? The mark up is 10,000 percent, and they buy in bulk. That saline drip, they charge you up to 600 bucks for a 30 dollar bag. The insurance companies get a discount of course, But some want a better deal and they often clash. That's what the whole in network, out of network thing is about. And its no secret that hospitals have been cutting cost in anticipation of getting less federal money.

I guess you didn't see that in the Paul Ryan plan, and he certainly didn't tell you, but be very wary of what doctors, and insurance company's tell you because they are always talking about their revenue streams and really don't care how they realize them.

Why do you think they have to have itemized bills? Read yours and let me know if you need help getting your eyes put back after seeing a bill that makes them pop out. LOL, doesn't matter if you steal a few towels or not, you get charged for 'em like you bought 'em any way. Hell you can buy a silk collection of towels from MACY's a lot cheaper.

Read that article my friend, so you can get caught up to the reality of 2013 business practice and real market capitalism.

I have been trying to pull your coat tail for a long time, and gave you the link to the Time Magazine article written by Steven Brill several times. Hospitals have been very selective of the insurance companies they deal with for decades, and with good reason because some are very hands on as to what a doctor can and cannot do and the cost they will bare.

Part of the ACA law is it caps your out of pocket expenses based on your income. This is a good thing for consumers, especially middle class and below wage earners. What, you thought those aspirins and pain killers, and toothpaste were free? The mark up is 10,000 percent, and they buy in bulk. That saline drip, they charge you up to 600 bucks for a 30 dollar bag. The insurance companies get a discount of course, But some want a better deal and they often clash. That's what the whole in network, out of network thing is about. And its no secret that hospitals have been cutting cost in anticipation of getting less federal money.

I guess you didn't see that in the Paul Ryan plan, and he certainly didn't tell you, but be very wary of what doctors, and insurance company's tell you because they are always talking about their revenue streams and really don't care how they realize them.

Why do you think they have to have itemized bills? Read yours and let me know if you need help getting your eyes put back after seeing a bill that makes them pop out. LOL, doesn't matter if you steal a few towels or not, you get charged for 'em like you bought 'em any way. Hell you can buy a silk collection of towels from MACY's a lot cheaper.

Read that article my friend, so you can get caught up to the reality of 2013 business practice and real market capitalism.

Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

OOOOkay!

Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

Sorry Speech but I need more evidence, call me a little slow if you like

Dude, stop shifting the blame. By now you should long have figured out we aren't the idiots you think we are.

I don't think it is a problem of people being idiots. Isn't it a problem that there are so many people who are under insured or don't have insurance at all? If you only have a certain amount of disposable income to spend then you spend what you can afford on health insurance. You many not get the coverage that you would prefer, but under the circumstances it is the best you can do. It's a calculated gamble.

I would imagine that people who have even less disposable income tend to take bigger gambles in terms of their health security. I think it is a pointless exercise to point out to these people that they need to be more responsible when it comes to their health. They have very little security in other areas of life, so they are certainly not going to start with health insurance.

On this basis the popular argument that they need to do without cell phones, computers and other such 'luxury' items is an irrelevant point. I also think it shows how divorced from the plight of the poor one can be. It is an attitude; an attitude based on ones economic situation.

I don't think it is a problem of people being idiots. Isn't it a problem that there are so many people who are under insured or don't have insurance at all? If you only have a certain amount of disposable income to spend then you spend what you can afford on health insurance. You many not get the coverage that you would prefer, but under the circumstances it is the best you can do. It's a calculated gamble.

I would imagine that people who have even less disposable income tend to take bigger gambles in terms of their health security. I think it is a pointless exercise to point out to these people that they need to be more responsible when it comes to their health. They have very little security in other areas of life, so they are certainly not going to start with health insurance.

On this basis the popular argument that they need to do without cell phones, computers and other such 'luxury' items is an irrelevant point. I also think it shows how divorced from the plight of the poor one can be. It is an attitude; an attitude based on ones economic situation.

Tut, do you think these same insurance companies whose only concern is profit as the argument here goes, are going to sell their best plans at a third of the cost of the "junk" "bare bones" plans the customer wanted to keep?

Tut, do you think these same insurance companies whose only concern is profit as the argument here goes, are going to sell their best plans at a third of the cost of the "junk" "bare bones" plans the customer wanted to keep?

Seems highly unlikely to me.

OOOOkay!

Dude, you can't expect people to work for nothing and when people see they're getting a bum deal from government regs they're going to find ways around it. You blame the providers instead of the government that forced their hand.

Seems highly unlikely to me.

That is the argument being made, therefore we must be idiots for not believing that's what they do.

I wonder how many of the people complaining about Insurance companies making a proifit work for free... or pay to work themselves?

Even charities and non-profits actually pay their workers and executives... some of them very generously.

And you can't pay anyone (or at least everyone) if your expenses exceed your revenue. And thats before considering shareholders...which expect a profit on their investment.

That is the argument being made, therefore we must be idiots for not believing that's what they do.

Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

Just another idiot whose plan they liked got dropped to be replaced by a much better obamacare plan at nearly twice the price, double the copays and a huge increase on capped expenses...

Obamacare: Unfair to the young middle class, punished enough already - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-obamacare-health-insurance-rates-increase-too-expensive-20131029,0,1645290.story#axzz2jFbnU36w)

Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

Why is that so hard to imagine ? There are many parts of my plan I'd drop if it wasn't mandated by state and national law.

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

BECAUSE it's doomed, I believe Ted Cruz will win the presidency, and the country will take a sharp turn to the right.

BECAUSE the country will take that turn, we're doomed.

excon

Yes, I gathered that aspect of the discussion. Not believing that seems like a pretty good inference to me. I think that goes without saying.

However, I was also interested in the claim that people who buy a certain types of policies are not idiots. They know what they want and they did it out of choice.

This is the bit I want to put under the microscope.

See my last post, we've been putting that under the microscope.

Why is that so hard to imagine ? There are many parts of my plan I'd drop if it wasn't mandated by state and national law.

Because you are probably in a position of choice. Not everyone is in that position. Some people are forced to make choice out of necessity.

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

BECAUSE it's doomed, I believe Ted Cruz will win the presidency, and the country will take a sharp turn to the right.

BECAUSE the country will take that turn, we're doomed.

excon

Well it woiuld be an absolute impossibility to go further left than we have been for 5 years. If Stalin walked out of his crypt tomarrow and the Democrats, the dead of the last 100 years and the liberal press elected him... it would still be a sharp turn to the right.

See my last post, we've been putting that under the microscope.


I am not defending Obamacare. I see it as a bad attempt at solving the problem that already existed. Namely, the people who have no insurance and the people who are under insured. I don't see any positive alternative solutions being canvassed. It seems that out of mind is out of sight for the time being.

Because you are probably in a position of choice. Not everyone is in that position. Some people are forced to make choice out of necessity.

Yeah life sucks . I made lots of sacrifices and choices too when I was younger . I made the choice to stay home on weekends instead of going to the clubs ,to work OT and 2 or 3 jobs when necessary . I saved and still furnish my house with furniture I picked up 25 years ago . I could go on and on . I have sympathy for the real hardships... but there are many that are self inflicted based on the choices they make .

I won't get hung up on what they sell there inadequate cheap products for, double, triple whatever, but in almost every case of sticker shock, so far, when its been explored deeper its always comes out there is a savings that goes with better services and benefits. That's what the outcry about the Hannity was about. He focused on a letter raising and changing a policy that was liked and affordable but none of his guest where asked or shown what their options were. Another reporter did, and they all saved money and got more bang for their buck. That's all of them.

So far that's held, but detractors never, ever look beyond the sticker shock, or acknowledge their own good health that they didn't have to find out the hard way that the plans they pay cheap ain't worth crap if their health develops issues. Many, I mean millions, have been through this, and suffered greatly financially, and physically from lack of adequate insurance and past practice profits before people policies. Its well documented and the cause for new regulations and laws in the first place along with RAPIDLY rising costs that consumers have to bear.

All these sticker shock horror stories you cite Speech, of people being kicked off there insurance they like, pales GREATLY with the stories of people that have been helped. People who would have died without that help.

Never once have you questioned the action of providers but when they say Obama made me do it boy do you jump on that band wagon with no regard to anything else. I NEVER regarded you as stupid or an idiot, but you are very stubborn. You can't just ignore the good and focus on the bad and have no inclination to help fix it, if indeed it needs fixing. That make YOU the problem not the system, and I can point out the co operating states have already begun to show progress overcoming their problems while you repubs just sit and blame the LAW, and Obama for YOUR problems.

It's only been a month, and already a lack of good faith effort is sorely lacking, and YOUR citizens will and are suffering. That's really sad.

Now the Obama administration is strong arming the insurance companies not to report all the millions of people they forced to drop from obamacare !

The White House 'Pressured' Insurance Execs to Keep Quiet About Obamacare: Report | Video | TheBlaze.com (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10/30/report-white-house-pressured-insurance-execs-to-keep-quiet-about-obamacare/)

CNN notes multiple sources declined comment on this claim, presumably out of fear of retribution.

However, there was one insurance insider who was wiling to go on the record.

“The White House is exerting massive pressure on the industry, including the trade associations, to keep quiet,” said insurance industry consulting firm head Bob Laszewski.

Laszewski, a longtime opponent of the law, said he has been asked by industry leaders to speak out on their behalf because they feel as if their hands have been tied. Plus, Laszewski notes, the federal government is a huge customer for the industry (so insurance executives can only say so much).

He said industry insiders are embarrassed that they had to cancels plans, forcing consumers into larger — and possibly more expensive — coverage.

Just another idiot whose plan they liked got dropped to be replaced by a much better obamacare plan at nearly twice the price, double the copays and a huge increase on capped expenses...

Obamacare: Unfair to the young middle class, punished enough already - latimes.com (http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-obamacare-health-insurance-rates-increase-too-expensive-20131029,0,1645290.story#axzz2jFbnU36w)

That was a good blog and highlights several issues that are not related to the new law. The blogger points to wealth inequality, and the fact that the recession has caused huge numbers of young people to be adversely affected while others actually saw a dramatic rise in wealth. Wall Street made out, and so have insurance companies. Main Street is losing and falling further behind.

Do you really think without ACA the cost you bear for anything will go down? It never has and that's a fact. Glad you don't mind that.

Yeah life sucks . I made lots of sacrifices and choices too when I was younger . I made the choice to stay home on weekends instead of going to the clubs ,to work OT and 2 or 3 jobs when necessary . I saved and still furnish my house with furniture I picked up 25 years ago . I could go on and on . I have sympathy for the real hardships... but there are many that are self inflicted based on the choices they make .

Well, I guess that bundles unfettered individualism into a neat package. Not a lot more to say really.

There is plenty of room for individualism, but there must be equal protection under the law for all, or else you have chaos, and not order.

There is plenty of room for individualism, but there must be equal protection under the law for all, or else you have chaos, and not order.

There must be responsibility, this is a huge tax on responsible, hard working Americans and we're getting less bang for the buck in spite of your insistence it's all good.

Obamacare Is the Worst-Case Scenario (http://nationalreview.com/article/362443/obamacare-worst-case-scenario-kevin-d-williamson)

Translation - The market based for profit trickle down capitalist system is broken, and should be SCRAPPED.

I agree.

Tal is trying to get the position as the new spokesman for Koolaid.

Hello again:

I NOW think Obamacare is DOOMED. But, he did it HIMSELF. You right wingers had NOTHING to do with it..

By George! I think he's got it!

Tal is trying to get the position as the new spokesman for Koolaid.

Just pointing out you guys love to holler, and blame, but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

Care to elaborate? Look at the mess we are in now. What you see is the media, I am in the front lines. This is a mess that is going to take generations to fix.

On the first sign up date there were only 6 people who were able to sign up. Care to explain how that was effective?

Kentucky had 60,000. Similar results in states that actually got busy to fix the problem. The real issues are with states that didn't do squat but complain and holler, and DID NOTHING.

Just pointing out you guys love to holler, and blame, but do nothing to fix anything, not even clean up your own messes.

The irony is almost unbelievable.

Kentucky had 60,000.

Link please?


Similar results in states that actually got busy to fix the problem. The real issues are with states that didn't do squat but complain and holler, and DID NOTHING.

Like Oregon, who as of last week still hadn't signed up a single person (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/18/the-other-side-of-obamacares-oregon-success-no-one-has-bought-private-insurance/) on their exchange site?

Here in NY ,2/3 of those who have signed up are medicaid expansion people . This is the same trend as many other states like California(82%) .The number of new Medicaid enrollees in states like Kentucky, and Washington tops 80 % of all enrollees .Medicaid is "free" so why not go for it instead of private insurance ?
But the plan was for getting the young healthy invincibles to sign up or there would be a death spiral . Here in NY we were already in this pattern with the inflation of Medicaid costs going up an unsustainable 13% annually. Oh there will be a 3 year reprise while the Federal gvt. pays for it with monopoly money ,but the s**t will hit the fan after that . The Obots will be out of office then so why should they care ?

Kentucky had 60,000. Similar results in states that actually got busy to fix the problem. The real issues are with states that didn't do squat but complain and holler, and DID NOTHING.

Are those the same 60,000 people who are registered democrats that reside in cemeteries?

Trickle down economics, that doesn't trickle, and job creators that don't create jobs, and law makers who don't govern is the heart of the problem.

Trickle down economics, that doesn't trickle, and job creators that don't create jobs, and law makers who don't govern is the heart of the problem.

Nah, liberals are the problem - they govern by magical, wishful thinking.

MSNBC’s Taylor: Obamacare Will Prevent Divorces (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/362840/msnbcs-taylor-obamacare-will-prevent-divorces-andrew-johnson)

Report: Only 6 People Enrolled in Obamacare on First Day (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-enroll-website-kathleen-sebelius/2013/10/31/id/534234?ns_mail_uid=37003908&ns_mail_job=1544163_11012013&promo_code=156DB-1)

Report: Only 6 People Enrolled in Obamacare on First Day

Only six people signed up for Obamacare through the federal exchanges on the first day of operations, CBS News reports.

The HealthCare.gov website set up for people without employer-sponsored health plans repeatedly locked people out from the moment it went online on Oct. 1.

Congressional Republicans and members of the media have asked Health and Human Services officials how many people have signed up, but have been told figures won't be available until mid-November, when they can be compiled for the entire month.

But a document subpoena from the House Oversight Committee was able to find that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services held "war room" meetings twice a day as the website rolled out.

The documents, which also were obtained by CBS, show that only six people had successfully signed up on the first day. By the middle of the second day about 100 had signed up, and by the last meeting on Oct. 2, 248 had enrolled nationally.

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has told "The Daily Show" host Jon Stewart and CNN's Sanjay Gupta she didn't know precise figures. CMS chief Marilyn Tavenner likewise provided no figures when she testified before the House Ways and Means Committee this week.

Instead, Sebelius and the White House have said millions of Americans have looked at the site and hundreds of thousands have created accounts. The White House said the website had 4.7 million unique visitors the first day.

Critics have speculated that actual sign-ups have not been released because the number is embarrassingly low.

The documents obtained by the Oversight Committee clearly show that exact numbers were available from launch. The phrase "Statistics coming in" is included in notes of the first meeting on Oct. 2. "(Contractor) QSSI has a daily dashboard created every night."

Contacted Thursday by CBS News, HHS still said it had no concrete figures, explaining that the numbers may not include other methods of signing up, such as with paper applications. The White House told Fox News the numbers are not official.

"These appear to be notes, they do not include official enrollment statistics," Sebelius' spokeswoman Joanne Peters told Fox News.

Fox News Channel's Megyn Kelly expressed surprise at the figure.

"There are more people in this room than signed up for Obamacare on Day One," she said.

Up to 7 million uninsured people are expected to sign up through the exchanges. Open enrollment ends March 31, but people have to sign up by Dec. 15 to have coverage on Jan. 1.

Jonathan Gruber, the MIT professor who advised the state of Massachusetts and the federal government on their universal healthcare plans, told CNN that Massachusetts' plan, dubbed "Romneycare," started slow as well, and predicted numbers would pick up.

I guess NOW if the wicked witch lies or refuses to answer... there will be legal charges to answer to.

Rep. Issa Subpoenas Sebelius for Obamacare Documents (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/darrell-issa-kathleen-sebelius-obamacare-subpoena/2013/10/31/id/534187?ns_mail_uid=37003908&ns_mail_job=1544163_11012013&promo_code=156DB-1)

Rep. Issa Subpoenas Sebelius for Obamacare Documents

Rep. Darrell Issa, chairman of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, has subpoenaed Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius for documents related to the “entirely dysfunctional” Obamacare website's problems.

“The administration's failure to provide answers about what led to the disastrous launch of HealthCare.gov and what is being done to fix it is completely unacceptable,” the California Republican said.

“The evidence is mounting that the website did not go through proper testing, including critical security testing, and that the Administration ignored repeated warnings from contractors about ongoing problems," he said.

The subpoena demands any documents linked to the malfunctioning website's technical issues, including the testing process that went into the site as well as the number of people enrolled in the program through the Nov. 13 deadline for delivery of the information.

Issa previously requested the same information from Sebelius on Oct. 10 and Oct. 24. After Sebelius had balked at releasing details about the troubled website since its Oct. 1 launch, Issa had warned that he would use a subpoena to get the information.

Issa said that Obamacare has “given us skyrocketing out-of-pocket costs, fewer choices, and the cancellation of millions of people's current health insurance coverage.”

Maintaining that the website is “just the beginning of the problems with the healthcare law," he added that the nation deserves to “know why the Administration spent significant taxpayer money on a product that is entirely dysfunctional and puts their personal information at risk.”

Issa also declared that “the president's signature legislative achievement” contradicted his promise that if you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it.

She did not say "Obamacare Will Prevent Divorces", she said the "number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress".

More right-wing FUD.

Report: Only 6 People Enrolled in Obamacare on First Day (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamacare-enroll-website-kathleen-sebelius/2013/10/31/id/534234?ns_mail_uid=37003908&ns_mail_job=1544163_11012013&promo_code=156DB-1)

Report: Only 6 People Enrolled in Obamacare on First Day

Only six people signed up for Obamacare through the federal exchanges on the first day of operations, CBS News reports.

The HealthCare.gov website set up for people without employer-sponsored health plans repeatedly locked people out from the moment it went online on Oct. 1.

Congressional Republicans and members of the media have asked Health and Human Services officials how many people have signed up, but have been told figures won't be available until mid-November, when they can be compiled for the entire month.

But a document subpoena from the House Oversight Committee was able to find that the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services held "war room" meetings twice a day as the website rolled out.

The documents, which also were obtained by CBS, show that only six people had successfully signed up on the first day. By the middle of the second day about 100 had signed up, and by the last meeting on Oct. 2, 248 had enrolled nationally.

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius has told "The Daily Show" host Jon Stewart and CNN's Sanjay Gupta she didn't know precise figures. CMS chief Marilyn Tavenner likewise provided no figures when she testified before the House Ways and Means Committee this week.

Instead, Sebelius and the White House have said millions of Americans have looked at the site and hundreds of thousands have created accounts. The White House said the website had 4.7 million unique visitors the first day.

Critics have speculated that actual sign-ups have not been released because the number is embarrassingly low.

The documents obtained by the Oversight Committee clearly show that exact numbers were available from launch. The phrase "Statistics coming in" is included in notes of the first meeting on Oct. 2. "(Contractor) QSSI has a daily dashboard created every night."

Contacted Thursday by CBS News, HHS still said it had no concrete figures, explaining that the numbers may not include other methods of signing up, such as with paper applications. The White House told Fox News the numbers are not official.

"These appear to be notes, they do not include official enrollment statistics," Sebelius' spokeswoman Joanne Peters told Fox News.

Fox News Channel's Megyn Kelly expressed surprise at the figure.

"There are more people in this room than signed up for Obamacare on Day One," she said.

Up to 7 million uninsured people are expected to sign up through the exchanges. Open enrollment ends March 31, but people have to sign up by Dec. 15 to have coverage on Jan. 1.

Jonathan Gruber, the MIT professor who advised the state of Massachusetts and the federal government on their universal healthcare plans, told CNN that Massachusetts' plan, dubbed "Romneycare," started slow as well, and predicted numbers would pick up.

I'm sure the iPhone only sold 6 units on it's launch day too. Don't you know that performance is never the measurement for liberal policies. What matters are the good intentions.

She did not say "Obamacare Will Prevent Divorces", she said the "number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress".

More right-wing FUD.

I beg to differ, she said "health care costs alone are the number one driver of financial distress in this country for families, the number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress" and then linked it to support for "affordable health care".

The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.

The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.
Talking about reading something with your own agenda....

The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.What a sad man you are.

What a sad man you are.

At least I'm not you.

Talking about reading something with your own agenda....

By all means, explain to me what she really meant.


"Health care costs alone are the number one driver of financial distress in this country for families, the number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress. If this is the family - the party of families, they ought to be about the family, the party of providing affordable health care for all families."

By all means, explain to me what she really meant.
It's a generic statement that has been true all my life, but is worse now with ever increasing health care costs.

I have no idea what that means. She clearly linked support for Obamacare with preventing the number one cause of divorce.

I beg to differ, she said "health care costs alone are the number one driver of financial distress in this country for families, the number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress" and then linked it to support for "affordable health care".

The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.


Well, I guess that must include me as well because other than the bits you underlined I have no idea what she was saying in relation to providing "affordable health care for all families" In other words, her link to health care and families was grammatically unintelligible.

Are you guys crazy, health care is but one of many financial stresses put on families. She never implies it was the only one.

I have no idea what that means. She clearly linked support for Obamacare with preventing the number one cause of divorce.
She did not! She was talking about health care in general. It's been an albatross around our necks for generations.

I beg to differ, she said "health care costs alone are the number one driver of financial distress in this country for families, the number one cause of divorces in this country is financial distress" and then linked it to support for "affordable health care".

The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.

I know nothing about your healthcare, and don't wish to, I'm in Canada and very happy with our health care. I can say that we live paycheck to paycheck, even though my husband has a well paying job, we still struggle to make ends meet. If we had to pay $250 for a doctors visit, that would add a lot of stress.

There are three leading factors for divorce, money, infidelity, and sex (and yes, infidelity and sex are two different things).

So, will affordable health care help with divorce rates? It very well may do just that. Stress about money is a leading cause for divorce, so eliminating one of those financial stresses would help.

But is divorce the only reason why your country should have affordable health care? Of course not!

Also, your tone, and literally calling someone stupid:


The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.

Is not acceptable. If you're trying to prove your point, could you at least do so without belittling people just because they don't agree with you? That's uncalled for, and not behavior that's acceptable on this site, or anywhere.

You really should apologize.

I know nothing about your healthcare, and don't wish to, I'm in Canada and very happy with our health care. I can say that we live paycheck to paycheck, even though my husband has a well paying job, we still struggle to make ends meet. If we had to pay $250 for a doctors visit, that would add a lot of stress.

There are three leading factors for divorce, money, infidelity, and sex (and yes, infidelity and sex are two different things).

So, will affordable health care help with divorce rates? It very well may do just that. Stress about money is a leading cause for divorce, so eliminating one of those financial stresses would help.

But is divorce the only reason why your country should have affordable health care? Of course not!

Also, your tone, and literally calling someone stupid:



Is not acceptable. If you're trying to prove your point, could you at least do so without belittling people just because they don't agree with you? That's uncalled for, and not behavior that's acceptable on this site, or anywhere.

You really should apologize.

Um, where did I literally call someone stupid? And if you have an issue with tones there are others with much worse tones than mine so excuse me if I don't take you seriously.

Um, where did I literally call someone stupid? And if you have an issue with tones there are others with much worse tones than mine so excuse me if I don't take you seriously.


The implication is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Must be why you didn't get it.

Here, I made it bold for you.

I didn't read the entire thread, too much back and forth posturing "I'm right, you're wrong, I'll bully you and talk down to you because you don't agree with me" for my liking. Not my cup of tea. But sadly I do see this thread pop up because there's so much traffic on it. So today I took a look.

So let me explain what I posted to you. Saying that your point of view is clear to anyone with half a brain (people with half a brain aren't that smart, clearly), and then saying that that's why the poster didn't get your point of view, clearly says "You don't even have half a brain". Surely you understand that you called that person stupid. You didn't use the actual word, but hey, that's semantics.

Saying that there are people that act worse, or post worse than what you posted, what does that matter? So you bully, and belittle, but because there are others that are worse, that makes it okay?

You don't have to take me seriously, no problem, I didn't post to join the fight, I posted to point out that acting like a bunch of bullies in a school yard, calling each other names, doesn't prove your point. It only proves that you're not willing to listen to anyone other than people with your point of view. It also proves that when you don't get your way, you name call and try to belittle people. That's not the way to get people to respect your point of view.

So stop acting like a bunch of children, and start acting like the grownups you purport to be.

Show that you are actually willing to listen by reading my post and accepting your part in all of the bullying going on. If you all can't put on your big boy pants and big girl panties, listen to each other with respect, than why even bother? You accomplish nothing by going at each others throats because your views differ and you're not willing to listen to any point of view that doesn't mesh with your own.

In other words, you all need to grow up.

Here, I made it bold for you.

I didn't read the entire thread, too much back and forth posturing "I'm right, you're wrong, I'll bully you and talk down to you because you don't agree with me" for my liking. Not my cup of tea. But sadly I do see this thread pop up because there's so much traffic on it. So today I took a look.

So let me explain what I posted to you. Saying that your point of view is clear to anyone with half a brain (people with half a brain aren't that smart, clearly), and then saying that that's why the poster didn't get your point of view, clearly says "You don't even have half a brain". Surely you understand that you called that person stupid. You didn't use the actual word, but hey, that's semantics.

Saying that there are people that act worse, or post worse than what you posted, what does that matter? So you bully, and belittle, but because there are others that are worse, that makes it okay?

You don't have to take me seriously, no problem, I didn't post to join the fight, I posted to point out that acting like a bunch of bullies in a school yard, calling each other names, doesn't prove your point. It only proves that you're not willing to listen to anyone other than people with your point of view. It also proves that when you don't get your way, you name call and try to belittle people. That's not the way to get people to respect your point of view.

So stop acting like a bunch of children, and start acting like the grownups you purport to be.

Show that you are actually willing to listen by reading my post and accepting your part in all of the bullying going on. If you all can't put on your big boy pants and big girl panties, listen to each other with respect, than why even bother? You accomplish nothing by going at each others throats because your views differ and you're not willing to listen to any point of view that doesn't mesh with your own.

In other words, you all need to grow up.

The irony of you not understanding the meaning of "literally" while lecturing me on not listening to the point of view of those who expect me to believe insurance companies, who are only concerned about profit, are selling premium plans for a third of the cost of "junk" is breathtaking.

I am not the one implying on a daily basis the other side is stupid. You really need to pay more attention to the BS I'm fed before lecturing me.

You really need to pay more attention to the BS I'm fed before lecturing me.


you all need to grow up.

Read my post again. I was "lecturing" all of you.

I'm open and listening, will you go back and see the bullsh*t we deal with before lecturing any of us?

Hey I wasn't even here don't include me in all

Alty, it's probably best that you stay out of this thread. ;)

The irony of you not understanding the meaning of "literally" while lecturing me on not listening to the point of view of those who expect me to believe insurance companies, who are only concerned about profit, are selling premium plans for a third of the cost of "junk" is breathtaking.

I am not the one implying on a daily basis the other side is stupid. You really need to pay more attention to the BS I'm fed before lecturing me.


Yes, well I guess the BS is a problem everyone has to put up with from time to time. After all this is largely a political forum. It's not a mathematics or physics forum.

You mean BS like this? The whole obamacare rollout disaster is apparently due to Republican sabotage.


The Obamacare sabotage campaign - Todd S. Purdum - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/the-obamacare-sabotage-campaign-99176.html)

That's right, the dysfunctional website, sticker shock and even the muddled white house message is Republican's fault.

You mean BS like this? The whole obamacare rollout disaster is apparently due to Republican sabotage.


The Obamacare sabotage campaign - Todd S. Purdum - POLITICO.com (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/11/the-obamacare-sabotage-campaign-99176.html)

That's right, the dysfunctional website, sticker shock and even the muddled white house message is Republican's fault.


Yes, that would be an example. Not to difficult to find it on both sides of politics. Isn't that how your political system works?

Yes, that would be an example. Not to difficult to find it on both sides of politics. Isn't that how your political system works?

I wouldn't confine that to just us my friend.

I wouldn't confine that to just us my friend.


I didn't

I'm just sayin'...

The propaganda wing of the regime has been mobilized to have a full frontal recruitment drive to get people signed up during the coming holidays
. It's time to have the talk (http://www.barackobama.com/health-care-holidays/)
They need to get 2.7 million invincibles signed up to pay for all those expanded Medicaid types that have dominated the Obamacare market so far.

The propaganda wing of the regime has been mobilized to have a full frontal recruitment drive to get people signed up during the coming holidays
. It's time to have the talk (http://www.barackobama.com/health-care-holidays/)
They need to get 2.7 million invincibles signed up to pay for all those expanded Medicaid types that have dominated the Obamacare market so far.

Yes, that's exactly what's on our minds for the holidays. Sebelius received an early Christmas gift from Sen. Brian Kelsey...


https://mobile.twitter.com/memphisdaily/status/396375443294523392/photo/1

What they didn't show in the video is the kid calling his parents nuts. He said for the $600/per month I can get me a Tesla !!

I remember the roll out of Medicare part D and it was a disaster, but look at it now, I can tell you it works and getting better. Many seniors though had to purchase a supplemental policy for prescription drugs and the donut hole was closed. But lets not forget before online pharmacy's became available, seniors ran to Canada by the busloads.

It's been widely reported and documented that even though democrats opposed the new law tooth and nail, once it became law it was all hands on deck to make it work. There were no shutdowns over it, or soaring gloom and doom rhetoric. Prices came down, delivery was improved.

Yeah America can make things work. It's a proven FACT, but the call for all hands on deck is being ignored by some that have forgotten where the true power of America is working together, for some insane notion that the few can dominate the many. That's always a recipe for disaster.

That's the way I see the sticker shock of a few, against the healthcare needs of the many.

What they didn't show in the video is the kid calling his parents nuts. He said for the $600/per month I can get me a Tesla !!

Lol.

Hello again,

Yaaaawwwwnnn... The website WILL be fixed, and JILLIONS of people will enroll.

Or not.

The tipping point is whether the site actually GETS fixed IN TIME. Fact IS, it's BEYOND time, and every day the website doesn't work, the prospects for Obamacare, AND the Democratic party, grow DIMMER and DIMMER.

I HOPE they fix it, because I don't want "severe" conservatives like Ted Cruz running my country... But, I'm NOT sure they will.

excon

Hello again,

Yaaaawwwwnnn... The website WILL be fixed, and JILLIONS of people will enroll.

Or not.

The tipping point is whether the site actually GETS fixed IN TIME. Fact IS, it's BEYOND time, and every day the website doesn't work, the prospects for Obamacare, AND the Democratic party, grow DIMMER and DIMMER.

I HOPE they fix it, because I don't want "severe" conservatives like Ted Cruz running my country... But, I'm NOT sure they will.

excon

Yep, Dems have to own this. But I thought it was Romney who was severely conservative.

Hello again,

Yaaaawwwwnnn... The website WILL be fixed, and JILLIONS of people will enroll.

Or not.

The tipping point is whether the site actually GETS fixed IN TIME. Fact IS, it's BEYOND time, and every day the website doesn't work, the prospects for Obamacare, AND the Democratic party, grow DIMMER and DIMMER.

I HOPE they fix it, because I don't want "severe" conservatives like Ted Cruz running my country... But, I'm NOT sure they will.

excon
They should just 'deem' it fixed.
There's a part of the book 'Atlas Shrugged', when a politician who was delayed in his travels, demands that a coal burning train travel through an 8 mile tunnel. He deemed the job done. Predictably the tunnel filled with smoke ,and 300 passengers asphyxiated.

Hello again, Steve:

Even though you THINK we "anointed" Obama, Ted Cruz's FATHER actually DID anoint his son.
Ted Cruz's Father Suggested His Son Is 'Anointed' (http://www.alternet.org/speakeasy/brucewilson/ted-cruzs-father-suggested-his-son-anointed-bring-about-end-time-transfer) to Bring About 'End Time Transfer of Wealth'I suspect HIS anointment pleases you. Well, it scares the SH*T outta me.

excon

Cruz and Paul do have old man problems. I wonder if the press will ignore them like they ignored the emperor's relationship with Rev Wright or his childhood mentor Frank Marshall Davis .

Hello again, Steve:

Even though you THINK we "anointed" Obama, Ted Cruz's FATHER actually DID anoint his son. I suspect HIS anointment pleases you. Well, it scares the SH*T outta me.

excon

Yaaaawwwwnnn, here we go this dominionist conspiracy again.

Hello again, Steve:

here we go this dominionist conspiracy again.So, you think Obama WAS influenced by his pastor, but you DON'T think Ted was influenced by his FATHER...

Okee doakee.

excon

Hello again, Steve:
So, you think Obama WAS influenced by his pastor, but you DON'T think Ted was influenced by his FATHER...

Okee doakee.

excon

I said nothing of the sort, I'm saying this dominionist conspiracy is bunk. You need not worry.

What's the chance of a religious right wing conservative being president? NONE if any. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there are many that would gladly like the country to be ruled by the theocrats strictly based on the bible.

No church should have that kind of power.

What's the chance of a religious right wing conservative being president? NONE if any. That doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there are many that would gladly like the country to be ruled by the theocrats strictly based on the bible.

No church should have that kind of power.

That was the fear with Bush, I must have missed the theocracy he established. I'm betting theocracywatch is repurposing for the Cruz theocracy. Do you guys even listen to yourselves? You sound awfully with this nonsense.

No worse than you guys trying to destroy your own government.

No worse than you guys trying to destroy your own government.

That's almost as silly a conspiracy.

That's the reality of your words and actions, but you will fail to destroy this nation!

That's the reality of your words and actions, but you will fail to destroy this nation!

Lol, you don't need us to help destroy this nation. You're doing a damn fine job on your own.

I'm just cooperating in letting the results speak for themselves...


Sticker shock often follows insurance cancellation (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/sticker-shock-often-follows-insurance-cancellation)

MIAMI (AP) — Dean Griffin liked the health insurance he purchased for himself and his wife three years ago and thought he'd be able to keep the plan even after the federal Affordable Care Act took effect.

But the 64-year-old recently received a letter notifying him the plan was being canceled because it didn't cover certain benefits required under the law.The Griffins, who live near Philadelphia on the Delaware border, pay $770 monthly for their soon-to-be-terminated health care plan with a $2,500 deductible. The cheapest plan they found on their state insurance exchange was a so-called bronze plan charging a $1,275 monthly premium with deductibles totaling $12,700. It covers only providers in Pennsylvania, so the couple wouldn't be able to see the doctors in Delaware whom they've used for more than a decade.

"We're buying insurance that we will never use and can't possibly ever benefit from. We're basically passing on a benefit to other people who are not otherwise able to buy basic insurance," said Griffin, who is retired from running an information technology company.

The Griffins are among millions of people nationwide who buy individual insurance policies and are receiving notices that those policies are being discontinued because they don't meet the higher benefit requirements of the new law.

They can buy different policies directly from insurers for 2014 or sign up for plans on state insurance exchanges. While lower-income people could see lower costs because of government subsidies, many in the middle class may get rude awakenings when they access the websites and realize they'll have to pay significantly more.

Those not eligible for subsidies generally receive more comprehensive coverage than they had under their soon-to-be-canceled policies, but they'll have to pay a lot more.

Because of the higher cost, the Griffins are considering paying the federal penalty — about $100 or 1 percent of income next year — rather than buying health insurance. They say they are healthy and don't typically run up large health care costs. Dean Griffin said that will be cheaper because it's unlikely they will get past the nearly $13,000 deductible for the coverage to kick in.

Your anecdotes never have enough data to make reasonable decisions because in fact all you want is to portray the downside of sticker shock.

I still ask if you have junk insurance or a bare bones policy and NEVER use it, how do you know you like it? In the past many who liked their insurance didn't like it when they had to use it, and I am sure a 64 year old healthy guy or woman would not like to have cancer screenings or prostate exams NOT covered by the insurance they paid for and liked so well.

That's the reality of your words and actions, but you will fail to destroy this nation!

I think you are mistaken. We aren't destroying this nation, your leader is.

He is our president duly elected AND re-elected under the law whether you like him or not and but one branch of government and I point out the branch you wingers control is the only one that's shut down the government because they didn't have the votes to get what they wanted.

We would have been destroyed if republicans of good sense had not stepped in and ended the insane path YOU guys tried to force us on.

He is our president duly elected AND re-elected under the law whether you like him or not and but one branch of government and I point out the branch you wingers control is the only one that's shut down the government because they didn't have the votes to get what they wanted.

We would have been destroyed if republicans of good sense had not stepped in and ended the insane path YOU guys tried to force us on.

Getting a little defensive now, aren't you? If the Commander in Chief, cough cough, were in the right, you wouldn't have to scream at us, now would you?

He is our president duly elected AND re-elected under the law whether you like him or not and but one branch of government and I point out the branch you wingers control is the only one that's shut down the government because they didn't have the votes to get what they wanted.

We would have been destroyed if republicans of good sense had not stepped in and ended the insane path YOU guys tried to force us on.

Force on us? Obamacare was forced on us. It will be one of the biggest subsidy programs in existance. Millions of people that never wanted a government hand out are now forced to take it. Yeah your side is doing a great job of ignoring the truth in favor of destruction. We can't afford this yet your side keeps pushing it through. It is a train wreck and your side wants to see it happen. It didnt work for the Soviets nor the Nazi's. Do you really think your side is any different?

Lay off the koolade.

Hello again, dad:

Force on us? Obamacare was forced on us.

Lay off the koolade.Forced??? Is THAT what you call democracy in action???? Let's see.

If I were to say that Texas, for example, is FORCING abortion clinics to close, I'll betcha you'd call THAT democracy in action, wouldn't you?? I'll bet you'd tell the sniveling libs that if they DON'T like it, WIN some elections.

Given those irrefutable facts, WHO'S the one drinking koolaid?

excon

Come off it, the US you refer to are the ones who where OUT VOTED. That's the way America works, by votes. Win a few elections and get your way. That's how it works.

What's in YOUR koolade?