Think of it this way --

NOW: 20 people have no health insurance. They all go to an ER. The cost is $100 (just to keep this simple). All end up getting the $100 charge paid by Medicare = $2000.

WITH ACA: Those 20 people are eligible for and apply for a health care plan from their states' marketplace, and are then covered. 10 of those people are able to pay the premiums out of pocket, but the other 10 are even poorer, can't pay the total premium out of pocket, but are qualified to receive additional assistance, so Medicaid steps in and pays part. Thus, Medicare costs will be a much less total payout for those 20 people.

Now, think of the savings when we consider 40+ million people who could end up in the ER under ACA as opposed to NOW.
Do you actually believe that's how it works?

Ever question WHY the prices are so much higher for everyone and the coverage is so much less than the non-socialized system? J_9 gave us her example.. and the Conservative media has been saying the same thing... you know the ones who haven't been covering for Obama's numerous screw ups all these years.

The people who worked harder to get ahead get screwed to pay for the people who coasted through life... and we do know most of the poor are the people who didn't work hard in school because it wasn't "Cool" to do... thus they never went to college and never got the better jobs... or were happy in their low paying jobs and didn't take the chances or work harder to take on responsibilities to get the better jobs... then start whining about how life isn't fair others earn more than they do. And expect to get the same thing at discounted prices at someone else's expense.

Besides if it was so wonderful... The Senate, The House... the SCOTUS and the White house as well as all the unions would be wanting this as well, and yet none of them want any part of it...

Do you actually believe that's how it works?
Yes. It will need tweaks, but yes.

Have you looked at the most current stats as to how many and who is on welfare and why? And who is getting Medicaid?

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

Here is an interesting read for you all. Written by a retired professor of constitutional law.


Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional.

What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.

To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.

The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business,and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats, and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled by the government.

However, as scary as all of that is, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred,or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.

The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people, and the businesses they own.

The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with! I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.

This legislation also provides for access, by the appointees of the Obama administration, of all of your personal healthcare a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4th Amendment to the Constitution, information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.

If you decide not to have healthcare insurance, or if you have private insurance that is not deemed acceptable to the Health Choices Administrator appointed by Obama, there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a tax instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However , that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the due process of law.

So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much, out the original ten in the Bill of Rights, that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though.

The 9th Amendment that provides: The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;

The 10th Amendment states: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people. Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were theirs to control.

I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation to support the Constitution." If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it, without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway, I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.

For those who might doubt the nature of this threat, I suggest they consult the source, the U.S. Constitution, and Bill of Rights. There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.

Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor

Here is an interesting read for you all. Written by a retired professor of constitutional law.
According to snopes.com, he posted that on his blog in 2009 regarding a version of the bill that never passed Congress.

snopes.com: Michael Connelly on the Constitutionality of Health Care Reform (http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/connelly.asp)

WG, I am not sure if you are truly unaware of what is going on, or if you are putting on your counselor's hat and trying to play devil's advocate.

This is going to be a drain on the economy as a whole as well as the medical system.

Because of ACA, this week my hospital, a small rural hospital, lost 17 employees. They weren't fired, but had to resign due to new staffing criteria More patients, fewer nurses.

The ER lost 6 alone and there will be an increase in ER traffic as many doctors will not be taking the new required insurance. An ER visit costs a minimum of about $900 vs a $20 doctor visit. However, if the doctors won't take that insurance, the public has no alternative but to use the ER as a clinic.

We now have 7 patients to one nurse on the medical surgical floor. Depending on the acuity of the patients, other patients' needs may be ignored and medications may be missed.

While all of you are quoting media sources, I am walking, talking and breathing this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am on the front lines. The media isn't. I am. I'm seeing the changes almost daily.

While all of you are quoting media sources, I am walking, talking and breathing this. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I am on the front lines. The media isn't. I am. I'm seeing the changes almost daily.
Posting an over-four-year-old blog post of incorrect information doesn't help your case.

And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.

I talk with both Republicans and Dems in real life, read both pro and con. Tomorrow, I will call two friends, long involved in medicine and heavily involved in patient care, to find out what they think.

No, you are right. It doesn't and I admit I failed to research it prior to posting it. I'm human. I'm not perfect, and I admit that.

These people aren't being laid off, only a few were fired. 63 in my system were fired, 17 people quit.

Why? Because of the new staffing grid. 7 patients to one nurse when it used to be 3 patients to one nurse. They aren't getting their hours, they are disgusted with the neglect that the patients will be getting.

Vanderbilt University hospital let go of approximately 1,000 employees.


And why are these staff people being laid off/fired? So far, there's no reason for it.
There is plenty of reason for it. Hospitals will not be reimbursed for certain procedures unless other procedures are conducted. Thus an increase in costs where the hospital cannot afford to pay employees.

I'll give you another example. Linens. You laugh, but it's part and parcel to patient satisfaction. Beds are now being made with only a bottom sheet, a pillow and pillow case. When I bring a patient from L&D to postpartum, I am expected to bring her blankets with her. Bloody blankets. Any new blankets will now be charged to the patient's account. No sodas, only water. If she labored for 48 hours with nothing but ice chips, I can't give her a meal. Her significant other has to go out to get her something to eat. If they can afford it. Otherwise I take money out of my pocket to feed the starving mother.

My main point is that I am concerned about patient welfare. I am concerned about the care the get, or will not get, according to ACA.

You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.

These people aren't being laid off, only a few were fired. 63 in my system were fired, 17 people quit.

Why? Because of the new staffing grid. 7 patients to one nurse when it used to be 3 patients to one nurse. They aren't getting their hours, they are disgusted with the neglect that the patients will be getting.

Vanderbilt University hospital let go of approximately 1,000 employees.
The ACA hasn't even taken effect yet. You'd think they would wait to see how the ACA shakes out before they panic and lay off or fire or quit.

You call your "friends" I'm sure you will disprove me on that too.
One is my GP who has been practicing for over 30 years, and the other is my pharmacist who has owned his pharmacy for probably as many years and has an excellent reputation in our community. I do not know either one's political leaning. I can also email my chiropractor who owns his own clinic, but is winding down toward retirement. All three are smart, well-read, and won't pull punches when I ask them what they think.

Yes, but you don't know any nurses going through this. Do you? I'm sure you will pull one out of your sleeve though.

The ACA hasn't taken effect yet? Really? No, the official ACA hasn't taken effect, but the effects are being seen system wide.

I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.

I'm sure you will pull one out of your sleeve though.
I'll ignore that.

Yes, actually I do know some nurses. One is in Seattle. Will email her tomorrow. Her husband is a member of this site.

My niece Heather who lives in a small town along the Mississippi in western Illinois is an RN. Will contact her too, if you'd accept her report.

I pray for you next time you are a hospital patient.
And that might be real soon. I'll take notes. The hospital I would go to is complaining they don't have enough patients and are trying to drum up business. Maybe I can help.

I'm biting my tongue here. That is a good thing for you.

I'm biting my tongue here. That is a good thing for you.
WHAT is a good thing for me? Why bite your tongue?

I'm not playing your counselor game WG. Just know that you are lucky I'm not saying what I think.

I'll ignore that.

Yes, actually I do know some nurses. One is in Seattle. Will email her tomorrow. Her husband is a member of this site.

My niece Heather who lives in a small town along the Mississippi in western Illinois is an RN. Will contact her too, if you'd accept her report.

And that might be real soon. I'll take notes. The hospital I would go to is complaining they don't have enough patients and are trying to drum up business. Maybe I can help.

Just curious, what hospital is that? I have many Doctors in my family who work in the Chicago land area...

I'm not playing your counselor game WG. Just know that you are lucky I'm not saying what I think.
Counselor game? Nope, not that. I am not playing any games. I'm waiting for my husband to get back from NC where he went to visit his sister who has Alzheimer's (before she forgets who he is), and then we'll figure out what to do. I'll post on the admin/mod board if I won't be around for a while.

I'm hoping they are still patient-hungry.

Just curious, what hospital is that? I have many Doctors in my family who work in the Chicago land area...
They just built a new one and are trying to fill it up. Elmhurst Memorial.

***ADDED*** I visited many sick and dying relatives at the old hospital over the years, my uncle was a psych patient on that floor MANY times, my husband had two heart surgeries there, and I was a patient there three times. I have nothing but good to say about the staff (except for the aide who dropped my cup of pills on the floor and had to be told by the RN to get new ones).

There are lots of hospitals around here, so am anxious to find out how this works out with hospital care and patient-staff numbers.

They just build a new one and are trying to fill it up. Elmhurst Memorial.

Ahhh yes, they moved recently. I heard it was a beautiful building.

Yes. It will need tweaks, but yes.

Have you looked at the most current stats as to how many and who is on welfare and why? and who is getting Medicaid?

Welfare Statistics | Statistic Brain (http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/)

I grew up around a LOT of Welfare recipients... I don't need stats to tell me what I already know about people I knew for a lot of years... I know them well enough to know how they live... what they think... know their attitudes and even how they game the system... yes I knew them well enough I know all their secrets.

Also my mother was working for the head start program back in the 70's... for a year or two before she got so disgusted with the entitlement mentality of the welfare bums she quit...

And incidentally... Wikipedia is very inaccurate with what they have on the beginnings of this program.

Byron York asked the big question, "Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"

Why yes, I think it says everything. I mean geez, the guy holds senior tourists hostage at gunpoint and otherwise is trying to inflict as much pain as possible rather than do his job and talk to the other side, so why wouldn't it reveal how they'll run Obamacare?

Which leads to the next point, I'm not sure if it works this way elsewhere but knowing how this regime cares nothing about our rights I'm sure it does.

Obamacare Will Collect and Share Americans' Data 'Without the Consent of the Individual' (http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/25/obamacare-will-collect-and-share-america)

When you sign up on the exchange in Maryland you have to agree to the terms (http://www.marylandhealthconnection.gov/internet-policies-fraud) of course, and after the usual long-winded stuff about collecting anonymous data, which apparently isn't going to be so anonymous, and promising not to violate your privacy you get this:


Any information that you provide to us in your application will be used only to carry out the functions of Maryland Health Connection. The only exception to this policy is that we may share information provided in your application with the appropriate authorities for law enforcement and audit activities.

That isn't all, "if you send us an e-mail, we use the information you send us to respond to your inquiry. E-mail correspondence may become a public record. As a public record, your correspondence could be disclosed to other parties upon their request in accordance with Maryland’s Public Information Act."

Excited yet?

Hello again, Steve:

Byron York asked the big question, "Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"Yes, it does.

But FIRST you have to BELIEVE that Obama is DOING that. I don't. Not even for a minute do I believe it. That's because I live in the REAL world, and NOT the FOX News bubble..

It's like the boy who cried wolf, or chicken little. I can't remember... But, THIS stuff is brought to you by the same people who told us about the DEATH PANELS... Of course, that wasn't true, so WHY should I believe them now?? Well, I shouldn't... They LOST their credibility then, and they've NEVER gotten it back.

But, I have NEW evidence... Oh, it's only in my head, but my head is attached to the REAL WORLD... Let's take a minute to examine the mean park ranger who won't let vets into their own memorial. What about the mean ones who ones who won't let people take pictures of Mt. Rushmore, or Old Faithful? We're told by the right wing press, that it's their job to PUNISH us, and they ARE, WITH a vengeance - IF you believe it.

First off, IF I were a park ranger, I'd HAVE that job because I LIKED people. If I didn't LIKE people, I'd be a DEA agent. But, park rangers aren't bad guys. So, EVEN if ORDERS were given to me to be REAL MEAN to people and PUNISH them, I'd NEVER do it. And, I KNOW the park rangers aren't doing it either.

It's just MORE death panel crap.

Excon

It's like the boy who cried wolf
Sort of like the emperor ginning up fears of a default that won't happen.
Now are you denying that the emperor has run roughshod over the people during the shutdown to make a maximum hurt on them ? The evidence shows he has. No it's not the Park Rangers .They are doing what they are told to do... fining 59 year old joggers ;barring WWII Vets from open air monuments in the Mall while at the same time allowing illegal immigrants to rally on the Mall.

LOL, only a loony would think that lower funding levels will get the same services. Only a loony would think that shutting down 17% of the government would have no effect on REAL people.

Only a loony would think Obama Care would be repealed, delayed, or defunded with the threat of a shutdown. Only a loony would think that America would go along with it and 70% said as much.

Only a loony would think that less government spending during sluggish economic times wouldn't contract the economy. Only a loony would think that be it austerity, or sequester, that deficit reduction off the backs of poor people, old people women, and children is a good idea.

Only a loony thinks cutting welfare for poor people to give to rich people is a good idea. Only a loony thinks everybody will go along with his shutdown, and piece meal solutions as they appear I the "lamestream" media.

Only a loony would think he can blame everyone but himself for what he has done.

>Case closed< you guys are full of loony's.

Hello again, Steve:
Yes, it does.

But FIRST you have to BELIEVE that Obama is DOING that. I don't. Not even for a minute do I believe it. That's because I live in the REAL world, and NOT the FOX News bubble..

So for the first time in history the NPS decided on its own to close open air monuments that are never closed, staff locations that are always unstaffed, and arm Rangers to prevent old people from seeing Old Faithful or taking pictures. That's not the REAL world ex, you're living in fantasyland.

The regime had NOTHING to do with these things, and of course the buck NEVER stops at Obama's desk, even though we already have on record government employees admitting they've been told to make life as miserable as possible. Must be more of those rogue employees like at the IRS, which if that's true should have you spooked about how little control the emperor does have over his agencies.

P.S. I suppose the pictures and videos of the shutdown charade and links to the government sites telling you flat out you have to agree to give up your privacy to use it are liars, too.

LOL, only a loony would think that lower funding levels will get the same services. Only a loony would think that shutting down 17% of the government would have no effect on REAL people.

Only a loony would think Obama Care would be repealed, delayed, or defunded with the threat of a shutdown. Only a loony would think that America would go along with it and 70% said as much.

Only a loony would think that less government spending during sluggish economic times wouldn't contract the economy. Only a loony would think that be it austerity, or sequester, that deficit reduction off the backs of poor people, old people women, and children is a good idea.

Only a loony thinks cutting welfare for poor people to give to rich people is a good idea. Only a loony thinks everybody will go along with his shutdown, and piece meal solutions as they appear I the "lamestream" media.

Only a loony would think he can blame everyone but himself for what he has done.

>Case closed< you guys are full of loony's.

Tell you what... take that $ billion spent to launch the Obamacare web site and reallocate it for something useful. The problem is that your side is so used to getting it's way that if those d@mn taxpayers won't give them everything they want ,they will use whatever means necessary to bludgeon them into submission. They justifed the IRS abuses because the "loonies" were a fringe that no one cares about their rights being violated . But as we now see ,even if a geezer Vet gets in the way they have to be taken down. Yeah it begs the question ......"Does the punishing way the Obama administration has run aspects of the shutdown (or the IRS ) reveal anything about how it will run national health care?"

You shut the government down, you open it backup!

Nobody shut down the national monuments on any of the previous government shutdowns.

So why do you think Obama did it? Maybe because he's never matured beyond being a petulant child.

So why do you think Obama did it? Maybe because he's never matured beyond being a petulant child.
A comment on a Yahoo News article --

"Government Shutdown Was Planned For Months By Ed Meese, Koch Bros (Heritage Foundation/Heritage Action)---- It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government."

Meet one of the conservative advocacy groups behind the GOP's government shutdown strategy (http://news.yahoo.com/meet-one-of-the-conservative-advocacy-groups-behind-the-government-shutdown-163357339.html)

A comment on a Yahoo News article --

"Government Shutdown Was Planned For Months By Ed Meese, Koch Bros (Heritage Foundation/Heritage Action)---- It articulated a take-no-prisoners legislative strategy that had long percolated in conservative circles: that Republicans could derail the health care overhaul if conservative lawmakers were willing to push fellow Republicans — including their cautious leaders — into cutting off financing for the entire federal government."

Meet one of the conservative advocacy groups behind the GOP's government shutdown strategy (http://news.yahoo.com/meet-one-of-the-conservative-advocacy-groups-behind-the-government-shutdown-163357339.html)

Except the fact... no republican has voted to shut anything down, we passed a number of bills that would have kept the government open to the Senate.. so that is 100% in the Democrtats ballpark.

Prince Harry never let most of them even see the Senate floor... And King Obama Messiah of the left shares the blame.

Nothing would be shut down if not for those two... and they are Democrats. not Republicans.


And incidentally... Obama isn't the Messiah... and its not blasphemy to not do everything he demands.

And King Obama MessiahI think don't understand why the rightys consider him a messiah... he's just a man.

I think don't understand why the rightys consider him a messiah...he's just a man.

I don't even think he's a man... more like a man-child by the way he behaves.

I don't even think he's a man........more like a man-child by the way he behaves.

Is there any particular reason you seem to favour invoking this type of terminology? You know, "boy" or "child".

I won't speak for smoothy but I didn't know "man-child" had racist overtones. Is that one ofthose dog whistles only liberals can hear?

I won't speak for smoothy but I didn't know "man-child" had racist overtones. Is that one ofthose dog whistles only liberals can hear?

You would know your history better than I do, but from my knowledge of American history... Well, lets just say I have my suspicions. Obviously I'm not ruling out the possibility I could be wrong.

Hello again,

Does anyone here DOUBT that smoothy is a racist? He doesn't hide it.

excon

Hello again,

Does anyone here DOUBT that smoothy is a racist?? He doesn't hide it.

excon

Excon.. pull your head out of your rectal orifice... The Bozo in the Spitehouse is not the Messiah.. and he is not deserving of my or anyone else's respect. He hasn't earned it.

Is there any particular reason you seem to favour invoking this type of terminology? You know, "boy" or "child".

Because he acts like a petulant child that throws a tantrum every time he doesn't get his way.


National parks have NEVER been closed much less barrakaded on ANY of the previous shutdowns as just one example of the many.

You would know your history better than I do, but from my knowledge of American history... Well, lets just say I have my suspicions. Obviously I'm not ruling out the possibility I could be wrong.

"Boy" OK, but not "man-child." I've never known that to be a problem word. But then again I didn't know "golf" was racist.

"Boy" ok, ....

As far as I am aware this particular term is highly insulting to African Americans. Would that be correct?The other term probably not.

Hello smoothy:

So, you're NOT a racist, huh? Well, you FOOLED me.

excon

Hello smoothy:

So, you're NOT a racist, huh? Well, you FOOLED me.

excon

I didn't spend 20 years of my like in Rev Jeramiah Wright's Church listening to his rascist rants like Obama did.

Here are only two of the many...

Jeremiah Wright - Obama's mentor - Hate speech - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkfUHc)

Barack Obama Pastor Jeremiah Wright NEW TAPES!!!! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ)

The Man-child in the Spite house is the racist.

I'd have walked out of any church or establishment that pulled that sort of stuff on the first day.

As far as I am aware this particular term is highly insulting to African Americans. Would that be correct?The other term probably not.

That would be correct, and apparently so are (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/racist-370103-white-dog.html) "golf" and "Chicago" – along with "Clint," "Medicare," "debt," "jobs," "foreign policy" and "quantitative easing."

I didn't spend 20 years of my like in Rev Jeramiah Wright's Church listening to his rascist rants like Obama did.

Here are only two of the many....

Jeremiah Wright - Obama's mentor - Hate speech - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdJB-qkfUHc)

Barack Obama Pastor Jeremiah Wright NEW TAPES!!!! - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jc2FCJ7zWEQ)

The Man-child in the Spite house is the racist.

I'd have walked out of any church or establishment that pulled that sort of stuff on the first day.



You still tripping over a 20 second portion of a tape from a marine turned pastor? Hell the man has 20 years of sermons and that's all you can find? 5 years is an unhealthy amount of time to dwell over words. Especially given your rant and insults are recorded here forever, and we have a very extensive history by which to judge you.

If I didn't know you were such a frustrated flaming winger, you might appear to be a racist. You can't be though, because you may holler and squeal, but have no power to affect those you deride.

apparently so are "golf" and "Chicago" – along with "Clint," "Medicare," "debt," "jobs," "foreign policy" and "quantitative easing." That's a horrible article, but you believe every word of it, right?

You still tripping over a 20 second portion of a tape from a marine turned pastor? Hell the man has 20 years of sermons and that's all you can find? 5 years is an unhealthy amount of time to dwell over words. Especially given your rant and insults are recorded here forever, and we have a very extensive history by which to judge you.

If I didn't know you were such a frustrated flaming winger, you might appear to be a racist. You can't be though, because you may holler and squeal, but have no power to affect those you deride.

Do you actually believe that in 20 years he only said something for 20 seconds?

THere are VOLUMES of tapes that show it happened almost every week. He actually recorded and sold them.

But then your side Had Byrd in office for decades... an ex high level Klansman.

Oh and that's rich... Obama has been Blaming Bush for everything for well OVER 5 years... and he hasn't even accepted respnsibility for the fact he's been the one in office for 2 months shy of 5 years at this point..

That's a horrible article, but you believe every word of it, right?

Obviously, unlike you Mark Steyn is a Canadian with a sharp mind and a sense of humor.

Do you actually believe that in 20 years he only said something for 20 seconds?

THere are VOLUMES of tapes that show it happened almost every week. He actually recorded and sold them.

But then your side Had Byrd in office for decades...an ex high level Klansman.

Oh and thats rich......Obama has been Blaming Bush for everything for well OVER 5 years...and he hasn't even accepted respnsibility for the fact he's been the one in office for 2 months shy of 5 years at this point..

If there are the volumes you say why didn't you righties use them? Why just loop one sound bite? Don't answer that, because that's all you had in those volumes. But I bet you looked hard.

I don't understand why this is being made a racial issue. It isn't. If Chief Whitecloud proposed this as Whitecloud care, or Joe Schmidt proposed this as Schmidtcare, would you lefties scream that we are prejudiced against Indians or Germans?

That in it's present state, this healthcare reform is not going to work. Doesn't matter who, or what color, wrote this. It's just not workable as it is right now.

This is about Constitutionality, not color.

a sense of humor.Ah OK, I get it now. I see you're back to insulting me. Jesus will get you for that, he sees and hears everything you do.

Ah ok, I get it now. I see you're back to insulting me. Jesus will get you for that, he sees and hears everything you do.

Dude, I can't help it if the humor goes over your head and Jesus would want me to tell the truth.

His column may be meant as humour but you take it seriously.

His column may be meant as humour but you take it seriously.

The Dems use even a less subtle form or racism calling conservatives "old white men" . Come to think about it... it's sexist too .

His column may be meant as humour but you take it seriously.

Nice try, but besides his satire the humor is that people he mentioned (Chris Matthews,Lawrence O'Donnell, Geoffrey Dunn - all true incidents) take it seriously.

Go ask your black friends if they take right wing commentary as serious, or insulting, or as you say, humourous satire.

You don't have to believe those old talking head white guys liberals.

If there are the volumes you say why didn't you righties use them? Why just loop one sound bite? Don't answer that, because that's all you had in those volumes. But I bet you looked hard.

We have, over and over... the problem is the average Democrat has an attention span of a 3 year old. They are lucky to remember what they ate for breakfast today much less anything that happened list week or last year.

Hell some of them think Bush is still in office.

Go ask your black friends if they take right wing commentary as serious, or insulting, or as you say, humourous satire.

You don't have to believe those old talking head white guys liberals.

Apparently it went over your head, too.

You have a very weird sense of humor sometimes.

You have a very weird sense of humor sometimes.

So you don't like when someone skewers your talking heads for the idiots they are.

So you don't like when someone skewers your talking heads for the idiots they are.Kind like we do for your talking heads at Fox news?

Kind like we do for your talking heads at Fox news?

Kind of, but Steyn does it brilliantly... you don't even know they've been insulted apparently

Naw, it comes off as something he truly believes, then others pass it off as a belief of the others. Weird sense of humour indeed.

Naw, it comes off as something he truly believes, then others pass it off as a belief of the others. Weird sense of humour indeed.

Dude, give it up. You're not being successful at covering up the fact you didn't recognize his style as satire, but then I should have known not enter into a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

It's odd because
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/its-come-rev-2-a-741180-105.html#post3529940 are the only one perpetuating this "dog whistle" thing even though it's apparently only a joke... a joke made by a fellow righty.

Same thing with the messiah thing.. or the emperor thing.. the righties are the only ones calling him that. Are these jokes too? How old are you guys anyway? It shows your level of intellect.

It's odd because are the only one perpetuating this "dog whistle" thing even though it's apparently only a joke...a joke made by a fellow righty.

Same thing with the messiah thing..or the emperor thing.. the righties are the only ones calling him that. Are these jokes too? How old are you guys anyway? It shows your level of intellect.

Dude, you're making less and less sense every minute. I have no idea why you keep trying to make whatever point here it is you're trying to make because it's totally incoherent, which shows your level of intellect.

Same thing with the messiah thing..or the emperor thing.. the righties are the only ones calling him that. Are these jokes too? How old are you guys anyway? It shows your level of intellect.
Yup. When my little brother had no reasonable argument, he too would start calling the other person names.

What you thought it was a joke that us liberals have to drag the right kicking and screaming into the future?

That's no joke! They are kicking and screaming. :( Can't leave 'em behind to run in circles can we? :D

Yup. When my little brother had no reasonable argument, he too would start calling the other person names.

Then they should stop treating everything he says like its gospel from the mouth of the messiah himself.

He lies constantly... and any thinking person knows it's a lie... but if anyone contradicts the Messiah... its like Muslims over a cartoon of Mo HAM Ed... they get their panties in a knot and start killing people and blowing things up.

We call it like it is because he's treated exactly like some religious figure. In fact he's treated MORE like a religious figure by democrats than the Pope is by Catholics.

He lies constantly
Please give three examples of this within the past month.

Yup. When my little brother had no reasonable argument, he too would start calling the other person names.

As if this hasn't been posted before, but the origins of us calling him the Messiah:

"We have an amazing story to tell," she said. "This president has brought us out of the dark and into the light."

-- Michelle Obama

"Obama is, of course, greater than Jesus."

-- Politiken (Danish newspaper)

"No one saw him coming, and Christians believe God comes at us from strange angles and places we don't expect, like Jesus being born in a manger."

--Lawrence Carter

"Many even see in Obama a messiah-like figure, a great soul, and some affectionately call him Mahatma Obama."

-- Dinesh Sharma

"We just like to say his name. We are considering taking it as a mantra."

-- Chicago] Sun-Times

"A Lightworker -- An Attuned Being with Powerful Luminosity and High-Vibration Integrity who will actually help usher in a New Way of Being"

-- Mark Morford

"He communicates God-like energy..."

-- Steve Davis (Charleston, SC)

"I'll do whatever he says to do. I'll collect paper cups off the ground to make his pathway clear."

-- Halle Berry

"A quantum leap in American consciousness"

-- Deepak Chopra

"He is not operating on the same plane as ordinary politicians... . The agent of transformation in an age of revolution, as a figure uniquely qualified to open the door to the 21st century."

-- Gary Hart

"Barack Obama is our collective representation of our purest hopes, our highest visions and our deepest knowings . . . He's our product out of the all-knowing quantum field of intelligence."

-- Eve Konstantine

"This is bigger than Kennedy.. . This is the New Testament." | "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often. No, seriously. It's a dramatic event."

-- Chris Matthews

"We're here to evolve to a higher plane.. . He is an evolved leader.. . [he] has an ear for eloquence and a Tongue dipped in the Unvarnished Truth."

-- Oprah Winfrey

We aren't the ones that made him a Messiah, but then you all already know that.

We aren't the ones that made him a Messiah, but then you all already know that.
Then stop calling him one.

So you blame the black guy in the white house because you think the sky is falling? Who did you blame before? Who will you blame after?

Could you send me a nickel every time you say the sky is falling? PLEASE??

Please give three examples of this within the past month.

Really... How about his last speech where he claimed he was willing to negotiate with the House..

EVERYTHING he has ever said about Obamacare...

And his claiming shutting down AND BARRACADING the National parks was due to the Shutdown. THere have been 17 shutdowns in my adult life and not once was a park ever baracaded off during ONE of them.

The first amendment gives you wingers the right to free speech, but reasonable people of conscious and good will have a right to call you LOONY.

>waiting for right wing humor to kick in<

The first amendment gives you wingers the right to free speech, but reasonable people of conscious and good will have a right to call you LOONY.

>waiting for right wing humor to kick in<

http://evolutionforum.info/yabbfiles/Attachments/head_up_your_ass2_002.jpg

A self portrait, or wishful thinking? Or no wonder you have a hard time swallowing.

A self portrait, or wishful thinking? Or no wonder you have a hard time swallowing.

Not... thats the average Democrat. If Obama claimed he was abducted by aliens tomorrow... they would accept it whole heartedly.

Just like they believed all of Obamas Claims about Obamacare... and despite every one of them being proven grossely wrong they still believe its going to save everyone money and give everyone better care... despite a complete lack of proof. ANd in the face of overwhelming proof it will do the exact opposite.

Then stop calling him one.

I'm not particularly concerned with tiptoeing around people that called Bush "dufus" and regularly portray conservatives as the source of all evil so no, I'll continue to call him the Messiah, emperor, dictator or whatever else seems appropriate at the time, he's earned it.

Not....thats the average Democrat.I can't imagine living in a country where I hate half the population. Why don't you move to another country where you'd be happier? You seem to really dislike most americans who aren't like you.

I can't imagine living in a country where I hate half the population. Why don't you move to another country where you'd be happier? You seem to really dislike most americans who aren't like you.

Where do you get the authority to make that claim... you don't even live in the USA... so how would you know what the average American thinks?

The fact is People that consider themselves liberal... are the minority here... in fact only 17%

How Americans Identify 2013 (http://www.gallup.com/poll/162746/fewer-americans-identify-economic-conservatives-2013.aspx)

Where do you get the authority to make that claimYou regularly paint people who are liberal as idiots.

You regularly paint people who are liberal as idiots.

If the shoe fits.

Many of them are... most of the rest are con-artists taking advantage of the others.

I can't imagine living in a country where I hate half the population. Why don't you move to another country where you'd be happier? You seem to really dislike most americans who aren't like you.

It's not half and half, and in light of your posts today it's ironic you would call him a hater.

You regularly paint people who are liberal as idiots.


If the shoe fits.

Many of them are...most of the rest are con-artists taking advantage of the others.Well there you go.Thanks for proving my point.

Well there you go.Thanks for proving my point.

The point you don't know what you are talking about?

On the subject at hand...


The ObamaCare Website – The Biggest Tech Gaggle Ever? (http://siliconangle.com/blog/2013/10/10/the-obamacare-website-the-biggest-tech-gaggle-ever/)

Despite the quiet here on this subject thus far at SiliconANGLE we have been keeping our eyes on what is possibly the biggest tech topic happening in the news right now. The issue at hand is the launch of ObamaCare online. It’s a hot topic that is philosophically dividing the country right now along political lines, along socio-economic lines, along just about every line there is to be divided over, many Thanksgivings could get cancelled over this (there’s also this big government shutdown) – it’s that contentious. Regardless of the variety of places to hear whatever facts and justification align with how you feel about the program, it is undeniable that this launch has been an incredible technical failure. Straight up – an absolute failure.

404, Not Available- Could it Get Worse?

Everywhere you look there are reports of issues across the board in just its first 8 days. Reports of the site just not being available. Reports of people unable to even create accounts. Those are just the first steps. Many people have reported being unable to sign up at all, or getting caught up in loops of reset passwords and lost accounts. If you’re lucky, once those things are clear, you can shop and select a health plan. It’s not just reports, I saw this myself when I personally tried on the third day to see what my costs would be, my browser was in la-la land stuck waiting with an hourglass for 5 hours just to get in to generate my profile. And then I got kicked off. I haven’t been back.

But hey, 5 people in Iowa managed to buy coverage (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/360886/five-iowans-succeed-buying-health-insurance-exchanges-alec-torres).

It was the emperor's design to distract everyone from the disastrous launch of Obamcare with his manufactured twin crisis of shutdown and debt crisis.

Hello again, tom:
it was the emperor's design to distract everyone from the disastrous launch of Obamcare with his manufactured twin crisis of shutdown and debt crisis.Too bad it didn't work. The Republican debacle took center stage.

Excon

Not even in Pittsburgh PA is Obamacare wanted. And that area is heavily Democrat.

Sebelius Embarrassed at ObamaCare Signup Event - Fox Nation (http://nation.foxnews.com/2013/10/11/sebelius-embarrassed-obamacare-signup-event)

Heinz field seats 60,000 but only 100 showed up.

The emperor's home town Chicago Tribune lowered the boom (http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-77808576/)...


If you’ve tried to sign up online for health coverage under the problem-plagued Obamacare exchange, our sympathies. Many people have tried to create accounts and shop for insurance under the new law. Few have succeeded. Those that have enrolled have found that the system is prone to mistakes. Some applications have been sent to the wrong insurance company…

• Illinois officials boasted that insurance premiums here would be lower than expected. But the Tribune reported Sunday that 21 of the 22 lowest-priced plans offered for Cook County residents have whopping annual deductibles of more than ,000 for an individual and ,000 for family coverage. That’s much more than many families can afford to pay.

• The Obama administration delayed issuing major rules to set up the exchanges until after the 2012 presidential election and refused to push back the Oct. 1 launch date, lest Republicans take political advantage, The New York Times reported on Sunday.

• Sloppy design of the architecture of the computer system, not simply an overload of users, created the problems that are blocking people from applying online for coverage, The Wall Street Journal reported last week.

“These are not glitches,” an insurance executive who has participated in many conference calls on the federal exchange told the Times. “The extent of the problems is pretty enormous. At the end of our calls, people say, ‘It’s awful, just awful.’ ”

They also addressed the broken promises...


There are more problems. People who have individual insurance coverage are finding that Obama’s oft-repeated promise — “if you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan” — is just not true. They are being told by insurers that their existing plans expire on Dec. 31 and they must choose new coverage. They’re learning that insurers managed to offer lower-cost plans by narrowing the networks of hospitals and doctors that are available or by upping the out-of-pocket expenses. Unless people are careful in selecting coverage, they may be surprised to find they have to pay much more for out-of-network care to go to their doctors or get treated at the best hospitals.

But that's the progressive way, instead of lifting others up they drag others down to make things 'fair.' Who gives a damn about fair if you make it more expensive for everyone else while narrowing their choices and lessening the quality of care?

And yet we have MSNBC news guy asking GOP Rep Marsha Blackburn, “Do you hate ObamaCare more than you love your country?” She missed the obvious retort about loving Obamacare more than you love your country but perhaps she was just being civil, unlike the haters on the left.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWochS3IAAAtABu.jpg

The haters of the left post here every day, so it's nice to see a rebuttal. :D

You have had your fight, a noble, principled one, But you lose this round that's obvious. Have heart, as I know you guys will pick another fight down the road.

You have had your fight, a noble, principled one, But you lose this round that's obvious. Have heart, as I know you guys will pick another fight down the road.

I don't give a damn about any fight, I liked my insurance, I can't afford huge deductibles and premiums, I hate fewer choices but the emperor had to come along and screw that all up. Leave us the hell alone and mind your own business for a change instead of screwing life up for hard working responsible people. Got it? That's what we're pi$$ed about, not that you want health care for all - you didn't have to screw it all up and jack with our lives in the process.

I don't give a damn about any fight, I liked my insurance, I can't afford huge deductibles and premiums
Have you been told there will be changes? Mine hasn't changed. My private-pay son's hasn't changed.

Have you been told there will be changes? Mine hasn't changed. My private-pay son's hasn't changed.

Is that all you got out of my response?

Is that all you got out of my response?
You won't answer my question?

Hello again,

I HAVE the answer.. It MAY be the disaster you wingers proclaim it to be, but like I said, you're the same people who told me about the death panels, and that wasn't true. So, you have NO credibility on the issue.

So, I'm a supporter of Obamacare. But, I'm not an idiot. If it PROVES to be the disaster you've said it is, then I'll help repeal it. So will every reasonable American..

So, relax. Let things take place, and when tal and me get pissed off at it, we'll tell you it's time. It's EASY, huh? No more heartache. Everybody wins.

excon

Hello again,

Uhhhh, one more thing.. If it fails, it MUST be remembered that it was a REPUBLICAN (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Fsm7em3WWY)plan, after all.

excon

Hello again,

I HAVE the answer.. It MAY be the disaster you wingers proclaim it to be, but like I said, you're the same people who told me about the death panels, and that wasn't true. So, you have NO credibility on the issue.

So, I'm a supporter of Obamacare. But, I'm not an idiot. If it PROVES to be the disaster you've said it is, then I'll help repeal it. So will every reasonable American..

So, relax. Let things take place, and when tal and me get pissed off at it, we'll tell you it's time. It's EASY, huh? No more heartache. Everybody wins.

excon

This is not about my credibility, story after story about the broken promises, higher costs, lowered choices and the all-out disaster - even from former admin officials - and you guys blow it off. If you won't listen to real people being affected and supporters of the law's criticisms who will you listen to?

I repeat, this isn't just picking a fight to me, you're messing with my life and I rightfully resent that.


I don't give a damn about any fight, I liked my insurance, I can't afford huge deductibles and premiums, I hate fewer choices but the emperor had to come along and screw that all up. Leave us the hell alone and mind your own business for a change instead of screwing life up for hard working responsible people. Got it? That's what we're pi$$ed about, not that you want health care for all - you didn't have to screw it all up and jack with our lives in the process.

you're messing with my lifeHow so?

How so?

Can't you read, I didn't mumble.

You just don't make enough money, work harder.

You just don't make enough money, work harder.

Let me come screw with your life and see how you like it.

Hello again, Steve:

This is not about my credibility, story after story about the broken promises, higher costs, lowered choices and the all-out disaster I agree. It's NOT about you.. The "you" I was referring to, is the euphemistic "you", that includes ALL the writers, of ALL the stories, about ALL the broken promises, and yada yada yada.

You lost this battle. There's only ONE way now. Let it fail on its own accord...

BUT, and there's always a but... What I REALLY think you're afraid of, is that it'll WORK, and WORK REAL GOOD.

excon

You got stories of unhappy people that are affected in their wallets for the time being. I get that, but we got stories of real people whose chance at life is better.

My position is to try and give more people a chance at a real life through HEALTH, and we can worry about the money later. Your tales of sticker shock, broken promises, and politics, pales greatly when a child with a brain tumor gets a chance at life.

Hello again, Steve:
I agree. It's NOT about you.. The "you" I was referring to, is the euphemistic "you", that includes ALL the writers, of ALL the stories, about ALL the broken promises, and yada yada yada.

You lost this battle. There's only ONE way now. Let it fail on its own accord...

BUT, and there's always a but... What I REALLY think you're afraid of, is that it'll WORK, and WORK REAL GOOD.

excon

Was I not plain enough twice?


I don't give a damn about any fight, I liked my insurance, I can't afford huge deductibles and premiums, I hate fewer choices but the emperor had to come along and screw that all up. Leave us the hell alone and mind your own business for a change instead of screwing life up for hard working responsible people. Got it? That's what we're pi$$ed about, not that you want health care for all - you didn't have to screw it all up and jack with our lives in the process.

That's always been my bottom line argument, stop messing with my life. You guys used to always complain about government intrusion into our lives and this regime has been more intrusive than anyone, and unlike you I don't see any common sense in implementing bad programs and hoping for the best, that's just asinine.

Remember, the name of this disaster is the "Affordable" Care Act and the emperor promised over and over not to worry, we would still have our insurance and doctors and cheaper care. That's BS and you know it. Even your neighbors know it.

Why your health insurance premium could increase under the Affordable Care Act | KATU Investigators | KATU.com - Portland News, Sports, Traffic Weather and Breaking News - Portland, Oregon (http://www.katu.com/news/investigators/health-insurance-premiums-affordable-care-act-227910201.html?mobile=y&tab=video&c=y)


TIGARD, Ore. – Is the Affordable Health Care Act making health care unaffordable for some people?

Some customers of Regence Blue Cross Blue Shield, one of Oregon’s largest insurance providers, say that's exactly what's happening. They say they are finding their health care plans are dramatically changing under the Affordable Care Act.

“Policy holders are seeing almost double their monthly premiums,” said a KATU viewer named Larry in an email. He said his wife’s premium will increase by 0 under the Affordable Care Act.

But don't believe me.

You got stories of unhappy people that are affected in their wallets for the time being. I get that, but we got stories of real people whose chance at life is better.

My position is to try and give more people a chance at a real life through HEALTH, and we can worry about the money later. Your tales of sticker shock, broken promises, and politics, pales greatly when a child with a brain tumor gets a chance at life.

Dude, you're a broken record. We all want people to have care, but why are you screwing it up for the rest of us? I admire the intent, but this is pathetic.

Dude, you're a broken record. We all want people to have care, but why are you screwing it up for the rest of us? I admire the intent, but this is pathetic.

All of you won't be screwed but many will have to make adjustments, but they benefit more than they harm.

You over state the 'rest of us" and conflate it to "ALL of us" which is an inaccurate false assumption. What you regret is you have to pay more because the price of EVERY damn thing is going up, from toilet paper to health care, and that's reality.

There are no instant results or quick fixes, just progress whether you see it, or feel it.

All of you won't be screwed but many will have to make adjustments, but they benefit more than they harm.

You over state the 'rest of us" and conflate it to "ALL of us" which is an inaccurate false assumption. What you regret is you have to pay more because the price of EVERY damn thing is going up, from toilet paper to health care, and that's reality.

There are no instant results or quick fixes, just progress whether you see it, or feel it.

Doubling someone's expenses is an "adjustment" like the Obamacare website disaster is a "glitch." How would you like it if I forced you to spend several hundred dollars a month more?

How would you like it if I forced you to spend several hundred dollars a month more?
You still haven't answered my question. Have YOUR health insurance premiums gone up?

You still haven't answered my question. Have YOUR health insurance premiums gone up?

And you haven't answered mine, is that all you got out of my response?

I still don't know what this year will bring, but if it's like last year our deductibles will again double and the premiums will increase. We've already been feeling the effects of Obamacare for quite some time now, and the examples of sticker shock and broken promises continue to grow. I can't afford any more "affordable" health care.

Hello again, Steve:

Remember, the name of this disaster is the "Affordable" Care ActMaybe it doesn't mean YOU.. Maybe it means the people who COULDN'T afford it before.

excon

And you haven't answered mine, is that all you got out of my response?
So I'm guessing no, your premiums have not gone up.

If they do, it's because your governor opted out of Medicaid expansion. Blame him, not President Obama.

The only reason my rates haven't gone up is because NY State was already gouging us;and have been for 20 years (guaranteed issue and community rating ) . What NY has is now coming to the rest of the country.

So I'm guessing no, your premiums have not gone up.

If they do, it's because your governor opted out of Medicaid expansion. Blame him, not President Obama.

Have I been stuttering today? No, I've been very clear.


I still don't know what this year will bring, but if it's like last year our deductibles will again double and the premiums will increase. We've already been feeling the effects of Obamacare for quite some time now

It's already increased and gotten worse, I've already seen the sticker shock and expect more.

Hello again, Steve:
Maybe it doesn't mean YOU.. Maybe it means the people who COULDN'T afford it before.

excon

No.


"This law will cut costs and make coverage more affordable for families and small businesses. It’s reform that brings -- that begins to bring down our government’s long-term structural deficit. It’s reform that finally extends the opportunity to purchase coverage to the millions who currently don’t have it -- and includes tough new consumer protections to guarantee greater stability, security and control for the millions who do have health insurance."

President Barack Obama
Remarks by the President on the Affordable Care Act and the New Patients' Bill of Rights
The White House, Office of the Press Secretary
June 22, 2010

And just for good measure...


"So let me begin by saying this to you and to the American people: I know that there are millions of Americans who are content with their health care coverage -- they like their plan and, most importantly, they value their relationship with their doctor. They trust you. And that means that no matter how we reform health care, we will keep this promise to the American people: If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor, period. ... If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period. ... No one will take it away, no matter what. My view is that health care reform should be guided by a simple principle: Fix what's broken and build on what works. And that's what we intend to do."

President Barack Obama
Remarks By The President At The Annual Conference Of The American Medical Association
The White House, Office of the Press Secretary
June 15, 2009

But go ahead, call me a liar.

I still don't know what this year will bring, but if it's like last year our deductibles will again double and the premiums will increase. We've already been feeling the effects of Obamacare for quite some time now
It isn't because of Obamacare. It's because of greed, pure and simple, i.e, "the cost of doing business" (which tracks back to exorbitant hospital and pharma costs). Now if all their insureds would get disgusted and drop gouging companies, things would start to change.

Hello again, Steve:

You're not a liar. I WISH he hadn't left the insurance companies in charge. Let's change THAT.

excon

So I'm guessing no, your premiums have not gone up.

If they do, it's because your governor opted out of Medicaid expansion. Blame him, not President Obama.

How is Medicaid expansion going to drive costs down? You are adding more non-paying people into the pool and into a system where resources are already straining .
The only hope this plan has to work is with the individual mandates... and thems aint the ones signing up so far. AND There's no way the exchanges will be signing up their goal of 7 million uninsured healthy people who can contribute into the revenue pool. At best the IRS will collect the fines...

In the meantime there will be a huge gap in expenditures out vs revenue in. That's why the emperor was so insistant this week to maintain the foolish medical device tax that no one likes.

Hello again, tom:

How is Medicaid expansion going to drive costs down? You are adding more non-paying people into the pool and into a system where resources are already straining . They're already IN the system, if you haven't noticed. They're just not PAYING. I think it's YOUR side who tells us that, in our wonderful system, if anybody needs care, all they have to do is go to the ER.

Ok, they DO, and YOU pay for it.. IF Medicaid were expanded, MANY if not ALL of those people would get relatively inexpensive health care, and YOU don't pay for it. Then your premiums would come down.

excon

How is Medicaid expansion going to drive costs down? You are adding more non-paying people into the pool and into a system where resources are already straining .
Those formerly non-paying people will no longer be non-paying. They will also be covered by insurance that they will have to pay into. Thus, Medicaid won't cover them 100% as in the past; they will bear responsibility for some of their health care.

The only hope this plan has to work is with the individual mandates... and thems aint the ones signing up so far. AND There's no way the exchanges will be signing up their goal of 7 million uninsured healthy people who can contribute into the revenue pool.
That's because 20+ governors have opted out of Medicaid expansion to help out poor people who are willing to buy insurance. Without Medicaid assistance to pay part of the bill, they can't afford to buy insurance on their own, so they are back to the ER and 100% Medicaid coverage that you provide through your tax dollars.

***ADDED*** Forgot to add -- and there's a big push to encourage younger people (who think they are immortal) to sign up for health insurance if they don't already have it through their workplace.

It isn't because of Obamacare. It's because of greed, pure and simple, i.e, "the cost of doing business" (which tracks back to exorbitant hospital and pharma costs). Now if all their insureds would get disgusted and drop gouging companies, things would start to change.

No, it's not that simple.

No, it's not that simple.
Read what excon and I posted above your post.

It will take time, but yes, it's that simple.

Those formerly non-paying people will no longer be non-paying. They will also be covered by insurance that they will have to pay into. Thus, Medicaid won't cover them 100% as in the past; they will bear responsibility for some of their health care.

That's because 20+ governors have opted out of Medicaid expansion to help out poor people who are willing to buy insurance. Without Medicaid assistance to pay part of the bill, they can't afford to buy insurance on their own, so they are back to the ER and 100% Medicaid coverage that you provide through your tax dollars.

***ADDED*** Forgot to add -- and there's a big push to encourage younger people (who think they are immortal) to sign up for health insurance if they don't already have it through their workplace.

You think Medicaid patients are going to pay ? You've been smoking Ex's medicine .

You think Medicaid patients are going to pay ? You've been smoking Ex's medicine .
Yes. They will no longer be eligible for 100% Medicaid.

Read what excon and I posted above your post.

It will take time, but yes, it's that simple.

No, it's not only not that simple, again it is asinine to implement a bad law and hope for the best.

You are aware of course that SCOTUS voted 7-2 to say the Medicaid mandate of Obamacare was unconstitutional and the Guvs who weren't seduced by the temporary freebee offered by the Obots are doing a great service to their states . The Obots are stunned that their bribe attempt failed . The not so secret secret is that the exchanges are designed to duplicate the failed national Medicaid system ;and the quality of care will no doubt duplicate Medicaid's track record.

the quality of care will no doubt duplicate Medicaid's track record.
Our library homeless guy went into the hospital via the ER several times during the 12 or so years I knew him. He received excellent care, just like any insured or self-paying patient. He even liked the food (and he did know his food!). The medical staff supposedly did not know he was a Medicaid patient -- part of HIPAA, the office said.

Our library homeless guy went into the hospital via the ER several times during the 12 or so years I knew him. He received excellent care, just like any insured or self-paying patient. He even liked the food (and he did know his food!). The medical staff supposedly did not know he was a Medicaid patient -- part of HIPAA, the office said.

And now you expect this same homeless guy to buy his on insurance and pay the copays that go along with it that he can't afford in the first place. So again this man / woman will wait until it is a medical emergency and go to the emergency room yet again.

How is it any better then before except he will be on the hook for thousands of dollars he doesn't have because he didn't buy a policy mandated by the government.

And now you expect this same homeless guy to buy his on insurance and pay the copays that go along with it that he can't afford in the first place. So again this man / woman will wait until it is a medical emergency and go to the emergency room yet again.
Actually, yes, he would have been able to buy a health insurance policy, especially since he lived in Illinois and would have gotten help from Medicaid to pay part of the premiums (if he needed help). He picked up odd jobs here and there, and received what he called "donations" from passersby. He finally in his early 70s claimed his very nice SS check which he had always passed on.

Unfortunately, he died about a year ago (Oct. 10, 2012) from complications from emphysema. Someday you might want to read the stories I wrote about him -- a very cool and colorful guy.

And now you expect this same homeless guy to buy his on insurance and pay the copays that go along with it that he can't afford in the first place. So again this man / woman will wait until it is a medical emergency and go to the emergency room yet again.

How is it any better then before except he will be on the hook for thousands of dollars he doesn't have because he didn't buy a policy mandated by the government.

That's the laugher in their argument . Here is NY you cannot have any income or assets to be eligible for Medicaid . Yet now we are supposed to believe that the Medicaid patients will be paying ? In a world where people can get subsidies without income verification I find it highly unlikely that Medicaid patients will be asked to fork up anything .

That's the laugher in their argument . Here is NY you cannot have any income or assets to be eligible for Medicaid .
For New York State --

A single or couple without children in 2013 may earn $8994 a year or $750 a month and be eligible for Medicaid.

Medicaid (http://www.health.ny.gov/health_care/medicaid/#income)

Its like those background checks, if you lie on the applications they can screw you.

I'm wondering, has health care been made more affordable after the 16 day empasse or was it just an exercise in futility?

Now that the fiscal cliff has been punted ,we can begin to watch the sticker shock. Let's start with emperor supporter Ezra Klein's buyer's remorse .
Five thoughts on the Obamacare disaster (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/14/five-thoughts-on-the-obamacare-disaster/)
James Taranto likens Klein's observation to Elisabeth Kübler Ross's five stages of grief.
Best of the Web Today: As Good as It Gets? - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304106704579137593411360948)

When your house needs a new roof, do you

A) Fix it.

B) Burn it down.

C) Move

I pick A, what do you pick?

When your house needs a new roof, do you

A) Fix it.

B) Burn it down.

C) Move

I pick A, what do you pick?

Do you...

A) Throw a bunch of shingles out and hope they stick?

B) Insist that everyone buy a roof just like yours whether they need it or not?

C) Hire a qualified contractor to make it just like new?

Funny how you answer a question with a question.

Funny how you answer a question with a question.

My questions were better.

When your house needs a new roof, do you

A) Fix it.

B) Burn it down.

C) Move

I pick A, what do you pick?

I could've asked the same question when Obamacare was being forced upon us .What your side did was patch a small leak with a sledge hammer.

Obama Care doesn't go far enough. I say cut out the middle man altogether. The rest is just half steppin'.

I could've asked the same question when Obamacare was being forced upon us
Forced? How long was it discussed and how many revisions did it go through?

Hello again, Carol:

Forced?Oh, they have LOTS of words for the Constitution in action... Lemme see... "Ramming" (down our throats), is one. "Takeover" is another..

How many do you know?

excon

Forced? How long was it discussed and how many revisions did it go through?

And they still can't get it right.


Obamacare has been a different story. Universal health care was promised, not to address a high-profile headline crisis, but because President Obama's twenty-something speechwriter wanted an applause line for a campaign speech.

The poorly drafted bill was passed almost entirely on party lines by exceedingly narrow margins -- and in the face of majority negative public opinion.

http://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/2013/10/01/if-only-obamacare-had-been-passed-with-careful-deliberation-n1713607/page/full

We didn't ask for it, we didn't want it and now we're stuck with poorly planned, abysmally executed, unequally enforced disaster and we're supposed to cross our fingers and hope for the best. That's a stupid way to run the country, and if it had been Republicans doing it you would never hear the endless drumbeat to get rid of it.

And they still can't get it right.
It's a work in progress. That was said from the get-go.

How many years does it take a wife to get her husband house trained?

How many years does it take a wife to get her husband house trained?Zero. Get me sandwich.

Naw we would have helped you fix it, like Part D. We have always worked with and helped republican presidents, sure we holler and called names and impeached a crook or two, but we never let the loonys shut things down, and make things worse.

Affordable health care and mandates was a conservative idea, so try and keep up and reject the loony notion that it was dreamed up by Obama. Its been in the works for decades now and rising costs was the reason then, as it is now.

You loony's and your "hidden" racism is DISGUSTING!

PS, YOU is the collective YOU, not the personal one, so don't get your underwear all jammed up in your crack.

Naw we would have helped you fix it, like Part D.
As long as that progressive socialist agenda gets advanced, you are sure to be helpful... and you is the collective you.

As long as that progressive socialist agenda gets advanced, you are sure to be helpful
You mean that Republican socialist agenda.

You mean that Republican socialist agenda.

They are part of the problem too. They have the spine of cooked angel hair .

They are part of the problem too. They have the spine of cooked angel hair .
In an ideal world, what would you want?

I don't have any presumptions about an ideal world or a desire to achieve one . Our system was designed for an imperfect world governed by imperfect humans.

what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. (Madison Federalist #51)

Think of striving and surviving as a journey, not a destination, and keep on trucking and working to make better adjustments based on facts and not just emotions. (or rhetoric, or opinions).

If you know from many efforts, repeal is not possible, how would you make the current structure better? My opinion is barring single payer, let Amazon .com handle the tech stuff because they got it going on, and have revolutionized on line shopping.

Think of striving and surviving as a journey, not a destination, and keep on trucking and working to make better adjustments based on facts and not just emotions. (or rhetoric, or opinions).

How many of your own side have to declare this a disaster and how many working Americans have to have their premiums doubled and out of pocket tripled before you stop blowing smoke?

They won't see it until it hits home to them . Notice the one thing both sides managed to do in a bi-partisan manner was to blow away the Vitter Amendment .

Not so fast on this one Tom, I have read the Vitter fix, and the Grassely fix,

Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/posts/2013/10/04-aca-vitter-amendment-federal-workforce-hudak)


Second and more painfully, the burden of the Vitter Amendment falls on the shoulders of junior staff. This topic receives little attention, but deserves the most. Junior staffers—staff assistants, legislative coordinators, etc.—are paid the least and have fewer alternative employment options, when compared to their senior colleagues. They are hardworking individuals who often spend their days dealing with angry constituents. The Vitter Amendment targets this group the most. Unlike others who work for large employers they will receive no employer contribution for health care.

Will these employees be able to get affordable health care on the Exchanges? Yes. However, they will be excluded from something millions of Americans enjoy: the employer contribution. In the end, budget debates and their associated political antics have victims. Often times, the federal workforce and government efficiency suffer the most.

How many of your own side have to declare this a disaster and how many working Americans have to have their premiums doubled and out of pocket tripled before you stop blowing smoke?

You miss the obvious fix to mitigate the sticker shock faced by segments of the population, and the obvious fix carriers could have implemented in the case of private buyers without employee based insurance.

Auto enrollment into their own state exchanges and instead of shocking them with sticker shock the letter would have said relax, its been handled and here is your savings. Don't blame business decisions and tactics on the new law.

You miss the obvious fix to mitigate the sticker shock faced by segments of the population, and the obvious fix carriers could have implemented in the case of private buyers without employee based insurance.

Auto enrollment into their own state exchanges and instead of shocking them with sticker shock the letter would have said relax, its been handled and here is your savings. Don't blame business decisions and tactics on the new law.

Relax, the government sent us here to help you, lol.

P.S. You miss the obvious, automatic enrollment doesn't put the money for the premiums they're FORCED to pay and deductibles in their pockets.

There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone $2,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare? (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/10/enrollment-in-obamacare-exchanges-how-will-your-health-insurance-fare).

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

Relax, the government sent us here to help you, lol.

P.S. You miss the obvious, automatic enrollment doesn't put the money for the premiums they're FORCED to pay and deductibles in their pockets.

You pay yours don't you? WHY? Why should you or I pay THEIRS? We do already you know and that's a good thing to YOU?


There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone ,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare? (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/10/enrollment-in-obamacare-exchanges-how-will-your-health-insurance-fare).

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

Before I look is this objective data or one sided winger date you are famous for? Just asking. Never mind, its winger data, isn't it?

You pay yours don't you? WHY? Why should you or I pay THEIRS? We do already you know and that's a good thing to YOU?

Um, Obamacare is going to be subsidizing a lot more people off our tax dollars.

P.S. Look, premiums are down in 5 states (http://www.heritage.org/multimedia/infographic/2013/10/how-will-you-fare-in-the-obamacare-exchanges). And doubled or more in 11 states.

It just keeps getting better and better. All those really, really smart people in the most transparent regime ever wouldn't hire an outside contractor to create the exchange website because they were afraid they might get subpoenaed by Republicans... so they reportedly stole the code (http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-violates-licensing-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html) and did it themselves. (http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=E56AECC5-E755-4674-9805-AD348E74BF58)


Facing such intense opposition from congressional Republicans, the administration was in a bunker mentality as it built the enrollment system, one former administration official said. Officials feared that if they called on outsiders to help with the technical details of how to run a commerce website, those companies could be subpoenaed by Hill Republicans, the former aide said. So the task fell to trusted campaign tech experts.

Even as early as 2010, HealthCare.gov was bug-ridden, a harbinger of problems to come. But few read the tea leaves because the site had a small fraction of the traffic it would get in October 2013.

“The wheels were practically coming off the wagon at that point, which should have been a clue that anything more than this — a nicely branded site with a lot of information and not much interactivity — was going to be impossible,” the former official said.

The code is 10 years old and "may require constant fixes and updates for the next six months (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/10/17/health-exchange-week-three-start-over/2995989/) and the eventual overhaul of the entire system." Add to that the fact that they intentionally built it to hide the costs before signing up (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/10/14/obamacares-website-is-crashing-because-it-doesnt-want-you-to-know-health-plans-true-costs/) so as not to scare people away from sticker shock and you have got to be shaking your head.

OK true believers, can you really not see valid reasons for our distrust and skepticism?

Beyond the tax subsidy you know that costs are capped according to income right?

Ezra Klein And Avik Roy Go Mano-A-Mano On Obamacare, Rate Shock, And The GOP Agenda (Video & Transcript) - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/06/30/ezra-klein-and-avik-roy-go-mano-a-mano-on-obamacare-rate-shock-and-the-gop-agenda-video-transcript/3/)


It also has out-of-pocket maximums in terms of what you can pay in premiums and out-of-pocket costs in a year. And if you're under 400% of the poverty line, these trigger for you so you can't pay, I think, at the maximum more than 9% of your income in a year.

ROY: [interposing] Nine and a half.

KLEIN: Yeah, nine and a half. And underneath that, it goes much lower. So if you're making 200% of the poverty line and you're a single, young male adult, you can't pay more than—I don't have the table exactly in my head, but it's 4.5%, 5%. [It's 4.0% of income from 150-199% of FPL, and 6.3% from 200-250% of FPL.]

So you're dealing with an actually quite subsidized kind of insurance, and not just through the direct subsidy, but through what can eventually be asked of you.

And I think that's important because we are saying we are going to cap how much you subsidize. It's not just “If you're young, you're going to be giving a huge subsidy to the old.” It's “If you're young and you're having trouble, we're going to help you too.”

Please take time to read the whole thing as it's an interesting and informative conversion, but complex and nerdy. Video available. Or you can keep hollering in generalities.

@Smoothy, That winger site you linked are extrapolations and completely devoid of income levels or even the data for present costs in age categories fails to take into account that by law have to be included on out of pocket costs calculations. Without those adjustments the chart is incomplete. Maybe after April they can add that data. Until then all the costs are guestimates.

Not so fast on this one Tom, I have read the Vitter fix, and the Grassely fix,

Congress, the Affordable Care Act, and the Myth of the 'Exemption' | Brookings Institution (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/posts/2013/10/04-aca-vitter-amendment-federal-workforce-hudak)

The Obamacare statute states very clearly that all Members of Congress and their staffs are to procure their health insurance through the Obamacare Exchange. Section 1512 of Obamacare says clearly that employees going to the Exchange lose their previous employer subsidy.
So if they don't like it then let them go work for real employers or let Congress fix the bill legislatively instead of having the emperor make another decree from on high ,in the middle of an August recess, when no one was paying attention . Not only that ,his OPM then made a decree that Congress was a small business that hires less than 50 people to take advantage of the Obamacare provisions related to small businesses. More bs exceptions for the privileged class in the belt way. Who has it better ? The staffer on capitol hill or the person who is now forced to work part time because of this ridiculous law? Would a staffer switch with that worker ? No ;just the opposite . These staffers put their time in Capitol Hill and then leave for lucrative positions on K Street . Screw them . Let them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

Screw them . Let them be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

But Tom you want to negate the whole basis of your society, one law for the rich ,another for the poor, one law for the politicians, another for the plebs. You cannot have one law for all, you have been down that road.. with the black population it took you a hundred years to sort out the mess and you aren't really there yet and yet you want one law for all. You already have it, I think it is called the Constitution and yet you can't agree on how to apply it

There are only 5 states which will see on average a price decrease under Obamacare... so much for Obamas promise of saving everyone ,500 on average.

Enrollment in Obamacare Exchanges: How Will Your Health Insurance Fare? (http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2013/10/enrollment-in-obamacare-exchanges-how-will-your-health-insurance-fare).

Bend over supporters... you wanted it... here it comes. Hope you are happy with your price increases. In fact I hope you choke in it.

Yes ,mine is one of them because we've had Mario-care for 20 years and were already paying some of the highest premiums because of the mandates... (guaranteed issue and community rating ) . What NY has is now coming to the rest of the country.

Based on the intentional chicanery I repeat my question, can you really not see reasons for our distrust and skepticism? Only a fool would say we don't have legitimate gripes.

Sky high prices,deductibles that scare off just about everyone that can get through the broken website and now :

Insurers say the federal health-care marketplace is generating flawed data that is straining their ability to handle even the trickle of enrollees who have gotten through so far, in a sign that technological problems extend further than the website traffic and software issues already identified.

Emerging errors include duplicate enrollments, spouses reported as children, missing data fields and suspect eligibility determinations, say executives at more than a dozen health plans

Obamacare woes widen as insurers get wrong data - MarketWatch (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/obamacare-woes-widen-as-insurers-get-wrong-data-2013-10-18)

But some of the Democrats that live in a fantasy world think things are proceding without major problems.

While many of us acknowledge and share your concerns, we aren't ready to give up after just two weeks, and no doubt you will keep hollering from the sidelines until it is.

But do you have to copy and paste duplicate posts on several threads?

While many of us acknowledge and share your concerns, we aren't ready to give up after just two weeks, and no doubt you will keep hollering from the sidelines until it is.

But do you have to copy and paste duplicate posts on several threads?

Two threads same topic......so yes I did.

Less than 1% of those who actually managed to register, which itself was a tiny fraction of those that tried... actually was able to even get insurance.

That is the classic definition of an unmitigated disater... only a liberal could try to spin that into anything else.

Bold prediction... within 3 months ,the emperor will be asking for a 1 year delay.

Bold prediction... within 3 months ,the emperor will be asking for a 1 year delay.

I bet it doesn't take that long.

Prediction from experience by April the bugs will be eliminated, and we start getting better data and clearer results.

No delays are foreseen at this time.

Unbelievable (http://twitchy.com/2013/10/18/guess-the-cable-network-chyron-announces-gop-flubs-obamacare-launch-pic-video/)...

http://thisistwitchy.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/msnbc-chyron-gop-flubs-obamacare-launch.jpg?w=746&h=431

So, we didn't want it, didn't vote for it, it was outsourced to Obama donors and former campaign staffers without giving it even a halfway reasonable testing and Republicans blew the Obamacare launch?

You have got to be effing kidding me.

They are pundits, it's an opinion show - what part of that don't you get?

Prediction from experience by April the bugs will be eliminated, and we start getting better data and clearer results.

No delays are foreseen at this time.

Healthcare.gov website may be more or less operational in a few months ,but that is just the tip of the iceberg compared to all the faulty data the insurance carriers are getting . Wait to you hear the collective howls from the multitudes who are getting bad insurance quotes .



Affirming what health industry consultant Bob Laszewski has written, my source said that insurers have received a relatively small trickle of enrollments through the federal website, but they are seeing problems.

Duplicate enrollments are a recurring issue. This means that the insurer is notified that somebody has enrolled in an insurance policy through the government exchange, but then receives another notice that the same person has un-enrolled, followed still later by another one that they re-enrolled, and so on.

As of now, it's unclear whether this duplication problem is triggered by a failure in the way Healthcare.gov interacts with the systems of insurers, or if shoppers on the federal exchange are enrolling and un-enrolling themselves as they go through the selection process. Insurers can't ascertain the ultimate choice of the shopper because there are no time stamps attached to transactions on the site.

Other potential challenges involve whether the website will be able to properly communicate with a massive federal data hub to verify applicants' income accurately, calculate subsidies they may be entitled to under the law, and display the correct plan price.

There's also a question of whether the federal website is properly displaying information about plan deductibles, co-payments, and benefits.

Administration officials have emphasized that Americans have until the end of next March to purchase health plans through the exchanges.

But insurers are focused on a much earlier date: Jan. 1. That's when the insurance plans will start to become active. The nightmare scenario for insurers would be if, at the beginning of the new year, they are bombarded by complaints from consumers who, based on information displayed on the federal website, were expecting a certain set of benefits that don't correspond to the plans to which they signed up.

This doesn't even get to the broader health policy issue. The success of Obamacare hinges on the exchanges being able to enroll enough young and healthy individuals to offset the cost of covering older and sicker patients, particularly those with pre-existing conditions.

Given that Americans with higher medical costs are more likely to endure an arduous enrollment process than healthier individuals, sustained technological problems could be devastating to the program.
Behind the curtain, more waving red flags for Obamacare | WashingtonExaminer.com (http://washingtonexaminer.com/behind-the-curtain-more-waving-red-flags-for-obamacare/article/2537343)
That should keep all those IRS agents they hired to adminster the national health care system busy . (does something sound wrong with that? )

Well Tom it's going to be back to manual systems to meet deadlines, that will mean using people instead of computers. Technology has failed again

that will mean using people instead of computers. Technology has failed again

So, hiring people to do this manually is a bad thing?

So, hiring people to do this manually is a bad thing?
Job creation. Like we used to do things with pen and paper.

Job creation. Like we used to do things with pen and paper.

Yeah, I get that. That was my point.

Yeah, I get that. That was my point.
I know, but wanted to drive the point home.

Nope that is not a solution. A system as large as the one being implemented cannot run with a system that could not manage a small medical practice today. Electronic management of data is here to stay.
There are thousands of people administering the VA system. What we are learning (and probably instinctively knew) is that the privacy of the patient is compromised with large bureaucracies .Imagine the exponential increases in occurrences in the national healthcare system being crafted .
Last week, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published a detailed analysis of all VA breaches from 2010 to May 31, 2013. It tallied more than 14,000 privacy violations o at 167 VA facilities affecting more than 101,000 veterans and 551 VA employees .
Privacy breaches in VA health records wound veterans | TribLIVE (http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4656034-74/privacy-health-veterans#axzz2htziEB00)

There was a complete lack of accountability with only 1 in 365 privacy violations being reported to VA's Office of Inspector General .



That's a lot of breaches affecting a lot of individuals. And that's not good.

The Tribune-Review also reports that in some of the worst cases, photos of the anatomy of some victims were posted on social media and stolen IDs were used for fraudulent credit cards.

Nope that is not a solution. A system as large as the one being implemented cannot run with a system that could not manage a small medical practice today. Electronic management of data is here to stay.
There are thousands of people administering the VA system. What we are learning (and probably instinctively knew) is that the privacy of the patient is compromised with large bureaucracies .Imagine the exponential increases in occurrences in the national healthcare system being crafted .
Last week, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review published a detailed analysis of all VA breaches from 2010 to May 31, 2013. It tallied more than 14,000 privacy violations o at 167 VA facilities affecting more than 101,000 veterans and 551 VA employees .
Privacy breaches in VA health records wound veterans | TribLIVE (http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4656034-74/privacy-health-veterans#axzz2htziEB00)

There was a complete lack of accountability with only 1 in 365 privacy violations being reported to VA's Office of Inspector General .



That's a lot of breaches affecting a lot of individuals. And that's not good.

The Tribune-Review also reports that in some of the worst cases, photos of the anatomy of some victims were posted on social media and stolen IDs were used for fraudulent credit cards.

You see J9 Tom doesn't think it is a good idea, anything rational is outside his purvue, which of course is to dump buckets of... on BO and the Democrats for being stupid enough to think that a form of universal health care might actually work in that glorious utopia of equality and fairness. I think we should ask, was the software contract given to Bangalore, because to write software you actually have to know what it is you are doing before you start. Not an Indian traint, but never the less

And as to breaches in privacy, if the government doesn't respect privacy in one place why would they respect it anywhereelse, definitely living in fantacyland

think we should ask, was the software contract given to Bangalore,
The Obots gave a no bid contract to cronies who were fired for doing shoddy work in Canada .


because to write software you actually have to know what it is you are doing before you start. Not an Indian traint, but never the less
Showing your racism again I see. Maybe the Obots should've hired an Australian for the task... someone like Julian Assange perhaps.

Noted obamacare supporter Ezra Klein raised a good point, since glitchapalooza is feeding bad data all around, what happens if you thought you'd purchased your mandated coverage and it turns out when you need it you don't actually have it?

Klein: Obamacare Glitches Could Constitute a ‘Betrayal of Faith’ | Washington Free Beacon (http://freebeacon.com/klein-obamacare-glitches-could-constitute-a-betrayal-of-faith/)

The Obots gave a no bid contract to cronies who were fired for doing shoddy work in Canada .


Showing your racism again I see. Maybe the Obots should've hired an Australian for the task... someone like Julian Assange perhaps.


No Tom they should have hired me then they would have go a quality product. I took a look at the product before the deadline. Maybe I was lucky but it didn't fall over on me. I suspect the problem lies in scaling it up for large scale similtaneous usage as well as people gaming the system. As to racism, call it experience. The experience of an Indian in India has little relevance to the way business operates in the western world and you say poor work was done in Canada, there is a large south asian population in Canada.

You don't like Julian Assange because he has exposed you for what you are, get over it

Hello again,

My friends on the right wonder why I don't believe the hundreds of stories, and the thousands of interviews with millions of people who are going to get HURT with Obamacare.

The reason is the Fox News lie machine (http://www.salon.com/2013/10/18/inside_the_fox_news_lie_machine_i_fact_checked_sea n_hannity_on_obamacare/?source=newsletter). To wit: Hannity had some couples on his show to talk about the dreaded Obamacare... But, upon checking their stories, it turns out Hannity is a LIAR. Here's a short exerpt:
First I spoke with Paul Cox of Leicester, N.C. He and his wife Michelle had lamented to Hannity that because of Obamacare, they can't grow their construction business and they have kept their employees below a certain number of hours, so that they are part-timers.

Obamacare has no effect on businesses with 49 employees or less. But in our brief conversation on the phone, Paul revealed that he has only four employees. Why the cutback on his workforce? “Well,” he said, “I haven't been forced to do so, it's just that I've chosen to do so. I have to deal with increased costs.” What costs? And how, I asked him, is any of it due to Obamacare? There was a long pause, after which he said he'd call me back. He never did.

There is only one Obamacare requirement that applies to a company of this size: workers must be notified of the existence of the “healthcare.gov” website, the insurance exchange. That's all.
The other two stories are equally FALSE.

excon

This forum, and the rest of the sight has glitches from time to time and takes a while to get them fixed. So does your cable, the retail sights, and the whole freakin' internet.

Start ups are expensive, ask Silicon Valley, maintenance is too. So why beeyatch about the baby not being able to walk or hold down a job after the doctor slaps him on the A$$ at birth? You better stock up on diapers and butt wipes while they eat, sleep, and crap up the place for a year or two. On there time not yours.

The right is quick to beeyatch, but slow to adjust, and plain lousy at counting anything. I mean shutting down the government sure didn't help anything did it?

Why beeyatch ? You must be kidding.The nation is invested in this boondoggle .
And yet they launched a massive web site without beta testing it. And mind you ,the web site snafus is probably the least of the disasters that will befall on us over this ill conceived national power grab,

Why beeyatch ? You must be kidding.The nation is invested in this boondoggle .
And yet they launched a massive web site without beta testing it. And mind you ,the web site snafus is probably the least of the disasters that will befall on us over this ill conceived national power grab,

There it is, the ACA is a boondoggle, and of course the access website is a boondoggle despite the suggestion the contractor is in Canada. I had the idea Tom that a boondoggle was unnecessary expenditure that benefited a small group or region for political purposes, and yet, this is intended to benefit millions across the entire nation. I expect boondoggles in the land of boondoggles have grown since I first heard the term. So let's see, is the national debt a boondoggle? is the border fence a boondoggle? Perhaps the Department of Homeland Security is a boondoggle? I know where the greatest boondoggle of all is. It is the Capital building wherein are located the greatest collection of useless politicians on Earth

There testing it now. By the time you Sarah and Ted get back from your Grand Canyon tour, and count some junk tanks we should be good to go.

Okay I'll confess we just want to see if we can hear the echo around the world and watch you guys run right of each other.

You go on line before you beta test ? Your fired !

Expert: Obamacare Website Is 'Not Even Ready For Beta Testing' « CBS New York (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/10/14/expert-obamacare-website-is-not-even-ready-for-beta-testing/)

As I said Tom not a quality implementation

So far out of Alaska's 140,000 uninsured ,7 have managed to sign up in the exchanges 3 weeks into it's launch.
Few Alaskans signing up for Obamacare through online health marketplaces | KTVA CBS 11 | Anchorage, Alaska News and Weather | Top Stories (http://www.ktva.com/home/top-stories/Few-Alaskans-signing-up-through-online-health-marketplaces-228338221.html)

Hello again, tom:

If it fails of its own accord, then good riddance. But, those numbers WILL change. In fact, "signing up" ISN'T buying anything. No policies will be sold until January 1. And, of course, we KNOW that the national website is screwed up.. But, it WILL be fixed, and people WILL buy insurance. How many? I dunno. You don't either.

Speaking of the unknown, since the amount of people who're gonna BUY insurance isn't known, then it CAN'T be known if Obamacare will work.

THAT, my friend, is just so.

excon

You wrote about equality, except for the slaves, then you hollered and killed for the right to have slaves. Then you hollered and killed for the right to deny them the vote, then you hollered about helping old people, young people, and people you made poor.

Then you hollered about paying for people who go to the emergency room and called them lazy and stupid for not having insurance but now you holler about getting them to pay for insurance and get a doctor.

You guys just like to holler.

How about hollering at the insurance companies who keep raising your rates, and kicking you off when you needed them? Naw, you don't holler about that. At least not anymore.

You wrote about equality, except for the slaves, then you hollered and killed for the right to have slaves. Then you hollered and killed for the right to deny them the vote, then you hollered about helping old people, young people, and people you made poor.

Then you hollered about paying for people who go to the emergency room and called them lazy and stupid for not having insurance but now you holler about getting them to pay for insurance and get a doctor.

You guys just like to holler.

How about hollering at the insurance companies who keep raising your rates, and kicking you off when you needed them? Naw, you don't holler about that. At least not anymore.

? Try decaff

Caffeine or not, Tom, you can't keep hollering foul before the play starts and when its just not your turn at bat. You cannot ignore your own failures to win elections and votes are the American Way.

Nobody's fault but your own you keep selecting the wrong conservative. Or the wrong presidential nominee. Go ahead keep getting rid of your RINOS.

Cafiene or not, Tom, you can't keep hollering foul before the play starts and when its just not your turn at bat. You cannot ignore your own failures to win elections and votes are the American Way.

Nobody's fault but your own you keep selecting the wrong conservative. Or the wrong presidential nominee. Go ahead keep getting rid of your RINOS.

You are wrong because every other entitlement program in history had bipartisan support prior to passage. You cannot ignore the fact that the emperor's minions had 3 years to put together a web site to get the ball rolling and they failed miserably at that .
Here is the reality... on Jan 1 the IRS is going to start asking what insurance you are signed up in... and MANY people will not have an answer. Many more think they are signed up but are not .Still more are signed up to multiple options . You cannot deny the fact that the HHS Sec is going around the country and admitting that she has no answers to the basic flaws in the exchange system.

You cannot deny the fact that the HHS Sec is going around the country and admitting that she has no answers to the basic flaws in the exchange system.
But she doesn't have the time to attend a Congressional hearing on the problems with the web site.

CNN: Sebelius Making Time For Gala, Not Testimony Before Congress - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk8AC1iZSKI)

You are wrong because every other entitlement program in history had bipartisan support prior to passage. You cannot ignore the fact that the emperor's minions had 3 years to put together a web site to get the ball rolling and they failed miserably at that .
Here is the reality... on Jan 1 the IRS is going to start asking what insurance you are signed up in... and MANY people will not have an answer. Many more think they are signed up but are not .Still more are signed up to multiple options . You cannot deny the fact that the HHS Sec is going around the country and admitting that she has no answers to the basic flaws in the exchange system.

Show me the rule where there has to be a bi partisan support for passage of a bill to become a law. I thought it was just having the votes to pass was what matters. Now the rollout of this program may not be the best at this early stage, but that doesn't mean it won't get better, so we have to see what happens.

As to your IRS reality that too is suspect since enrollment will continue untilApril, and..

Health insurance mandate: How will it work? - Jun. 29, 2012 (http://money.cnn.com/2012/06/29/pf/taxes/health_insurance_mandate/index.htm)


The penalty will be pro-rated based on the number of months during the year that you're uninsured, although those who are uninsured for less than three months in a given year would not be subject to the penalty.

So clearly you cannot be penalized until April 15th 2015 when the tax returns for 2014 are due. So what are you hollering about?


But she doesn't have the time to attend a Congressional hearing on the problems with the web site.

CNN: Sebelius Making Time For Gala, Not Testimony Before Congress - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dk8AC1iZSKI)

No subpoena? Who in there right mind skips a party for date with Darrel Issa? That's a no brainer, so what's your point?

Maybe Issa should have gone to the gala, but who would invite him to a dogfight? Really sorry things ain't working out according to the winger plan, but that's the consequences of FAILING to win the last election.

Show me the rule where there has to be a bi partisan support for passage of a bill to become a law. I thought it was just having the votes to pass was what matters.
More my way or the highway logic... the emperor taught you well Padawan .
Wonder why he now is asking for bipartisanship on entitlement reform ? I'll answer for you since you obviously don't get that something as major as entitlements ,or other congressional reforms that will last for generations and significantly affects tens of millions of Americans. Should have a broad based support . Otherwise what you have is what you see now... disunity, angry protests, increased political polarization, and deepen distrust of Washington.

Social Security had majority support by Republicans in the House (81 yes, 15 no) and in the Senate (16 yes, five no).

Doctors were opposed to Medicare and Medicaid, but the public supported it . The two programs attracted a bipartisan majority in Congress of nearly all Democrats and half the Republicans. Medicare Part D prescription drug benefit got nine Democratic votes in the House, but 35 of 48 Senate Democrats voted for it.
Obamacare ? The Repubics were virtually shut out of the process and the vote tally showed that .


As to your IRS reality that too is suspect since enrollment will continue untilApril, and..
And you think maybe the IRS won't be asking for proof of insurance starting Jan 1 with the personal mandate still in place ? What happens to filiers who don't have insurance yet .Do they now have to wait until April to file ?


No subpoena? Who in there right mind skips a party for date with Darrel Issa? That's a no brainer, so what's your point?
Ummm it isn't Issa's committee requesting her presence . It's the Energy and Commerce Committee chaired by Fred Upton who requested her testimony . Usually subpoenas aren't necessary because a cabinet member who's very job was dependent on advise and consent understands the importance of transparency . I guess the concept of oversight either escapes you ,or like the rest of the regime you think it's beneath the executive dept to permit Congress to do their constitutionally delegated role .
No doubt she'll agree to an invite by Sen D*ckhead Durbin where she'll be happy to answer soft ball questions about her failures as HHS Sec.

Come off it Tom, you cannot answer a question honestly so you get snarky, and fact is there is no penalty for not having insurance this year, and you can file 2013 taxes whenever you want by April 15th. 2014, as usual.

Your facts are seriously flawed.

Tal, change is hard to understand for older people, perhaps this is why Tom dislikes the ACA so much

You guys just like to holler.

Do you listen to yourself? You more or less insulted our intelligence on another thread and I just have to wonder how smart it is to stubbornly defend a poorly planned policy with so many bad consequences that America doesn't want and you can't even get the signup right... and then blame the shutdown for the exchange disaster.

From Obama's pep rally on Obamacare today:


“About three weeks ago, as the federal government shutdown, and the Affordable Care Act's health insurance marketplaces opened up across the country,” said Obama. “Well, we've now gotten the government back open for the American people and today I want to talk about how were going to get the marketplaces running at full steam as well.”

What the? Come on, stop treating us like we're all stupid.

P.S. Of the 13 props he had onstage with him today, only 3 managed to actually register (http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/21/group-behind-obama-at-rose-garden-speech-includes-only-3-obamacare-registrants/). They couldn't find 13 people who managed to get through and know for sure their registration was good?

http://i940.photobucket.com/albums/ad244/dharrisphoto/sheep.jpg

This is EXACTLY what most of the AMerican population views Obamacare like...

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2007/05/11/sicko-early-poster.jpg


Excatly what it ammounts to... a body cavity search.

Glitches have been redefined as 'technical problems ' .Given how much money the Obamacare website has already cost, how much will taxpayers have to shell out for the "tech surge" to fix it?

Probably a lot less than the shutdown of the government costs taxpayers.

Probably a lot less than the shutdown of the government costs taxpayers.

Unlikely... Obamas lied about everything else... it's likely already cost in the Billions so far... so why not throw a few Billion more at something that's hopelessly broken.

What they should be demanding is a full refund for breach of contract and non-performance.

Claiming it "has a few small problems" is like claiming that ex taxicab with 300,000 miles bellowing smoke and running on half its cylinders and not a straight panel on the entire body just needs "minor detailing" to make it like new.

Unlikely... Obamas lied about everything else... it's likely already cost in the Billions so far... so why not throw a few Billion more at something that's hopelessly broken.

What they should be demanding is a full refund for breach of contract and non-performance.

Claiming it "has a few small problems" is like claiming that ex taxicab with 300,000 miles bellowing smoke and running on half its cylinders and not a straight panel on the entire body just needs "minor detailing" to make it like new.

You are just demonstrating you don't understand software development. What the problem here is scale, very few systems are written for similtaneous access by millions of on line clients. When such a system is written it isn't possible to test this aspect of operation.

So you have a system that fell over in the field. Welcome to the club

You are just demonstrating you don't understand software development. What the problem here is scale, very few systems are written for similtaneous access by millions of on line clients. When such a system is written it isn't possible to test this aspect of operation.

So you have a system that fell over in the field. Welcome to the club

They had THREE years... less than one percent of the people that actually we able to even get registered were able to get insurance... that is far less than a fraction of a percent.

Way over a 99% failure rate at roll-out... beta tests have far fewer problems. Hell, most alpha testing works better.

For something that was already over budget by many times the original contract bid and award. Most federal contracts would have been canceled for non-performance... we aren't talking minor bugs... we are talking about something that flat out doesn't come anywhere near working as advertized..

Am I a programmer? No... but I've got more than a little experience in beta testing. I used to work Research and Development earlier in my career.

And nothing this flawed by any reputable company would ever have a customer actually touching it...much less be put on the market.

They had THREE years... less than one percent of the people that actually we able to even get registered were able to get insurance... that is far less than a fraction of a percent.

Way over a 99% failure rate at roll-out... beta tests have far fewer problems. Hell, most alpha testing works better.

For something that was already over budget by many times the original contract bid and award. Most federal contracts would have been canceled for non-performance... we aren't talking minor bugs... we are talking about something that flat out doesn't come anywhere near working as advertized..

Am I a programmer? No... but I've got more than a little experience in beta testing. I used to work Research and Development earlier in my career.

And nothing this flawed by any reputable company would ever have a customer actually touching it...much less be put on the market.

Once again you are not listening. You can beta test the thing to death, but with out an army of autobots you cannot create sufficient accesses to test what happened. I actually logged on to the site before Oct 1 and had no problem with access. Systems subjected to massive simultaneous access fail, it is device hackers use, but this time when you have millions of clients, no system is going to give faultless operation. The possibility should have been foreseen and access staggered, but then when you have hundreds of thousands of government employees out to lunch courtesy of a do nothing congress, what do you expect

Once again you are not listening. You can beta test the thing to death, but with out an army of autobots you cannot create sufficient accesses to test what happened. I actually logged on to the site before Oct 1 and had no problem with access. Systems subjected to massive simultaneous access fail, it is device hackers use, but this time when you have millions of clients, no system is going to give faultless operation. The possibility should have been foreseen and access staggered, but then when you have hundreds of thousands of government employees out to lunch courtesy of a do nothing congress, what do you expect

I wonder how the NSA does it? lol

I wonder how the NSA does it? lol

Unlimited resources and a targeted approach but they are monitoring data streams, not trying to communicate in a human/machine interface

Hello again,

When the website gets fixed, NOBODY will remember that it stumbled out of the gate...

Yawwwwwwn.

excon

Once again you are not listening. You can beta test the thing to death, but with out an army of autobots you cannot create sufficient accesses to test what happened. I actually logged on to the site before Oct 1 and had no problem with access. Systems subjected to massive simultaneous access fail, it is device hackers use, but this time when you have millions of clients, no system is going to give faultless operation. The possibility should have been foreseen and access staggered, but then when you have hundreds of thousands of government employees out to lunch courtesy of a do nothing congress, what do you expect

You might be used to or happy with buying a product that works less than 1% of the time.

If any other business put a product to market that worked even 90% of the time... meaning a 10% failure rate a Fraud investigation by the Federal Trade Commission would be underway (at least here in the USA it would).

I guess I should start selling crap to Liberals saying like Obama does , telling them don't worry it will be fixed eventually... knowing the dimwits that fall for that line are the ones who will be paying the bill to fix it after they paid to buy it.

Only OBama or a liberal would get away with doing this to the public....if Microsoft or Apple ever pulled this they would have to pay back every dime....AND pay fines on top of that.

Bet there is a delay in the individual mandate... as the Republicans suggested .

If any other business put a product to market that worked even 90% of the time... meaning a 10% failure rate a Fraud investigation by the Federal Trade CommissionUh no, that's just not true in the least.

if Microsoft or Apple ever pulled this they would have to pay back every dime....AND pay fines on top of that.You mean like Apple Maps that was a colossal failure and no fines or money back was paid. Like that?

You might be used to or happy with buying a product that works less than 1% of the time.

If any other business put a product to market that worked even 90% of the time... meaning a 10% failure rate a Fraud investigation by the Federal Trade Commission would be underway (at least here in the USA it would).

I guess I should start selling crap to Liberals saying like Obama does , telling them don't worry it will be fixed eventually... knowing the dimwits that fall for that line are the ones who will be paying the bill to fix it after they paid to buy it.

Only OBama or a liberal would get away with doing this to the public....if Microsoft or Apple ever pulled this they would have to pay back every dime....AND pay fines on top of that.

You still don't get it when I build software I expect a 100% success rate but that is after quality control testing, beta site implementation, now commercially I have often found these expectations are not met, and now we buy software from the third world you get a third world experience. Welcome to the third world. With a third world debt rate you have to expect this

No one has lost money yet, but it won't be long I suspect before the software builder is bankrupt before the legal eagles get their pound of a$$

Uh no, that's just not true in the least.
You mean like Apple Maps that was a colossal failure and no fines or money back was paid. Like that?

How much did you pay for apple maps?

Really... then what are all these recalls here for things that fail only a small percentage of the time?

Fraud is the process


In incidentally...

Fraud Investigations - PInow.com (http://www.pinow.com/investigations/fraud-investigations)

Fraud is considered to involve misrepresentation with an intent to deceive. If a company makes specific promises about a product, for example, in order to sell that product, they may be guilty of fraud if they are aware that the product does not work as advertised.

THis is NOT doing what it was supposed to do... And it doesn't do it over 99% of the time.

You still don't get it when I build software I expect a 100% success rate but that is after quality control testing, beta site implementation, now commercially I have often found these expectations are not met, and now we buy software from the third world you get a third world experience. Welcome to the third world. With a third world debt rate you have to expect this

No one has lost money yet, but it won't be long I suspect before the software builder is bankrupt before the legal eagles get their pound of a$$

I DO get it... If the people I worked for sold something that didn't work over 99% of the time there would be HUGE problems they would he held responsible for committing fraud. Its a gnats hair from not working at all.

And there is a HUGE difference between something that works 99% of the time with a few bugs... and something that works far less than 99% of the time and has massive problems... well beyond "bugs".

How much did you pay for apple maps?

Really... then what are all these recalls here for things that fail only a small percentage of the time?

Fraud is the process


In incidentally...

Fraud Investigations - PInow.com (http://www.pinow.com/investigations/fraud-investigations)

Fraud is considered to involve misrepresentation with an intent to deceive. If a company makes specific promises about a product, for example, in order to sell that product, they may be guilty of fraud if they are aware that the product does not work as advertised.

THis is NOT doing what it was supposed to do... And it doesn't do it over 99% of the time.

When you build software you start with a set of signed specs, but often the brilliant mind in the corner decides there is more, and more, and more until the whole thing must be redesigned. So we start with a data base of say fifty million items and then someone tacks on the need to allow every citizen to have a record, then every resident and cross reference to IRS, existing insurers and register of births and deaths, Before long the bemouth is housed under several city blocks and needs the equivalent of several dozen CRAYS. To do the job Why you didn't just use the NSA systems I cannot say but perhaps they were doing something useful, like listening in to France, Brazil, Germany and who knows where

When you build software you start with a set of signed specs, but often the brilliant mind in the corner decides there is more, and more, and more until the whole thing must be redesigned. So we start with a data base of say fifty million items and then someone tacks on the need to allow every citizen to have a record, then every resident and cross reference to IRS, existing insurers and register of births and deaths, Before long the bemouth is housed under several city blocks and needs the equivalent of several dozen CRAYS. To do the job Why you didn't just use the NSA systems I cannot say but perhaps they were doing something useful, like listening in to France, Brazil, Germany and who knows where

If you sell someone a car for $1,000 but before you actually give them the keys you make them pay $10,000 for it... but it still doesn't work... so you tell them if they keep paying you, you can fix it... but it might cost them $50,000 by then... but by the way... you are stuck with it and you can't get your money back... and you have to continue to pay them to make it work as they claimed.


Despite the fact you only contracted to buy the car which was advertised as running with no defects for $1,000 to begin with.

Apple Maps came with the $600 phone.

Anyway I know what fraud is. I was just showing how what you posted was totally incorrect.

Hello again, tom:
Bet there is a delay in the individual mandate... as the Republicans suggested .

Question: When is a mandate, NOT a mandate?

Answer: When there's NO penalty for NOT paying it!


The law (http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/how-much-is-the-obamacare-tax/)prohibits the IRS from seeking to put anybody in jail or seizing their property for simple refusal to pay the tax. The law says specifically that taxpayers “shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty” for failure to pay, and also that the IRS cannot file a tax lien (a legal claim against such things as homes, cars, wages and bank accounts) or a “levy” (seizure of property or bank accounts).

excon

Apple Maps came with the 0 phone.

Anyway I know what fraud is. I was just showing how what you posted was totally incorrect.

You've shown you are totally incorrect...

If that iPone didn't work over 99.9% of the time... and apple tried to charge the people that bought the phone money un unlimited ammount over and above that $600 to fix it so it did (and they had no choice but pay)... THEN you might have something that began to approach the severity of this fraud.

Now you're just changing your story... like always.

Hello again, smoothy:

THEN you might have something that began to approach the severity of this fraud.Fraud? FRAUD?

You cost the taxpayers $24 BILLION when you shut down the government for NOTHING...

Now, THAT'S a FRAUD!

excon

Now you're just changing your story... like always.

No... YOU are every time you get caught.

Canada might not have any consumer protection laws... but the USA does. And pushing off a product that DOESN"T work as claimed over 99.9% of the time is fraud under OUR laws. I guess that explains why a Canadian Company can make such a mess of this... they think it doesn't have to actually work.

This is NOT the same as something that actually does work most of the time... this effectively works almost NONE of the time.

Hello again, smoothy:
Fraud? FRAUD?

You cost the taxpayers BILLION when you shut down the government for NOTHING...

Now, THAT'S a FRAUD!

excon

Obama shut the government down... HE refused to sign bills legally sent to him that would have kept everything running... Face it... love it... embrace it... YOUR Messiah OWNS that.

Canada might not have any consumer protection lawsSee? More incorrect info. It's non-stop with you.

See? More incorrect info. It's non-stop with you.

YOU claimed a product doesn't have to work as promissed... YOU are from Canada...

Because in the USA a product is legally required to function as advertized and actually be usable. Or you have committed fraud marketing a non-fuctional product. And something that doesn't work 99.9% of the time...is in effect, non-fuctional.

Hopefully you get a pacemaker that works less than 1% of the time...its just the same anyway...they might be able to fix it eventually if you pay them enough money. Right?

Hello again, tom:

Question: When is a mandate, NOT a mandate?

Answer: When there's NO penalty for NOT paying it!


excon

Then the system is a failure by design... forget about the computer issues. The assumption behind the individual mandate was to get healthy people signed up so their money could subsidize the less healthy . If the individual mandate is unenforceably then there will be that feared "death-spiral" where the least healthy i.e. The most expensive,sign up for insurance, causing the system’s financial collapse.
That of course was a predictable outcome when SCOTUS legitimized an unconstitutional key provision of the law .

YOU claimed a product doesn't have to work as promissedShow me where I claimed that.

Show me where I claimed that.

Go back and read your own posts... you will see it.

And that's another typical tactic of yours.

And that's another typical tactic of yours.

Not mine, YOU own that... You spent the morning arguing that The Canadian software for Obamacare that doesn't work.. isn't legally required to actually work.

You spent the morning arguing that The Canadian software for Obamacare that doesn't work.. isn't legally required to actually work.No I didn't, not once. More lies from you.

No I didn't, not once. More lies from you.

You need to put down the Vodka and the joint... because that's all you have argued about all morning. Either that or someone else is posting on your account and you need to change your password.

No wonder people put you on Ignore.

No wonder people put you on Ignore.

They don't... you just wish they did... because you got caught in another one of your numerous lies.

Hello again, tom:

Question: When is a mandate, NOT a mandate?

Answer: When there's NO penalty for NOT paying it!


excon

You left some out of your fact check. Do you really think the IRS is not going to collect the penalties?


The law says that the IRS will collect the tax “in the same manner as an assessable penalty under subchapter B of chapter 68” of the tax code. That part of the tax code provides for imposing an additional penalty “equal to the total amount of the tax evaded, or not collected.” It also requires written notices to the taxpayer, and provides for court proceedings.

So it may turn out that the IRS will be suing those who fail to pay the tax for double the amount. But so far, the IRS has not spelled out exactly how it will enforce the new penalty with the limited power the law gives it.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Journalism/2013/10/21/Top-five-obamacare-catastrophes-media-refuse-to-cover

Top Five ObamaCare Catastrophes the Media Refuse to Cover

Breitbart's Big Journalism, by John Nolte

While the tech problems are real and worth covering, so are five other ObamaCare catastrophes. But the media won't cover those because to do so might further undermine the program:

1. Millions are Losing Their Health Insurance
About 14 million Americans (not enrolled in Medicare or Medicaid) purchase their health insurance privately as opposed to through an employer. Because a large percentage of these plans do not cover everything ObamaCare mandates a policy cover -- among other things: birth control, mental health, maternity, vision, dental -- these plans are being cancelled -- no matter how happy people might be with them. We learned today that in just one state just one provider dropped 300,000 customers.

Now these 300,000 (and millions more, including spouses being dropped by UPS and other organizations) have not only lost the health insurance they were happy with, they have also been thrown into the nightmare of these ObamaCare exchanges. Moreover, because their old insurance plans were dumped for not covering everything the government now demands be covered, the new plans will be more expensive.

You can lose the doctor you had and liked. Obama promised the American people that his health care reforms would not cost people their doctors or force them off the health insurance plans they like. Now we know that was nothing more than a bald-faced lie.

2. Premium Increases on Working and Middle Class
Obama hosted a Rose Garden event Monday where he incessantly repeated a talking point about health care now being more affordable. Certainly, it will be, for those joining the expanded Medicaid rolls. But for many millions among the working and middle class, premiums are going up, sometimes by as much as 50% to 150%. We are not talking about taxing the wealthy here, we are talking about everyday people, families, and small businesses.

Millions are about to have their standard of living hit and their ability to save for college and retirement undermined -- mostly because the government is forcing them to give up a health care premium they were happy with, and purchase another loaded with services they neither need nor want.

All of this is happening in a no-growth economy.

3. Obama's One-Year Delay On Business Mandate Strands the Middle and Working Class
In 2015, and in an anemic job growth-era that is entering year five of creating mostly part-time jobs, ObamaCare will sock small business owners with a massive tax. If a company has more than 50 full-time employees, they are either required to provide them with ObamaCare or pay a fine of $2000 a year per employee. This is the employer mandate Obama delayed for a year. But he didn't delay it to help business as much as he did it to increase the number of people who would be forced to enroll for ObamaCare during this crucial first year.

Businesses already at or above the 50 employee threshold are a lot less likely to offer their employees health insurance until the mandate kicks in the following year. This leaves employees stranded for a year without health insurance and facing a penalty if they don't sign up for ObamaCare. This was a ruthless move by Obama, which cornered employees into enrolling in ObamaCare.

4. ObamaCare's Effect On the Unemployed and Under-Employed
While it is a sad thing that ObamaCare means that small businesses can't expand their workforce in a way that benefits everyone, the real victims are the unemployed and under-employed who won't be hired for full-time jobs by these companies.

ObamaCare has been the law of the land for three-plus years , and for just as long our economy has been adding 7 part-time jobs for every full-time job. As soon as ObamaCare was passed, employers saw the writing on the wall and planned accordingly.

5. The Working Poor are Getting Hammered
The stories of the hundreds of thousands among the working poor losing their employer-based health insurance and having their hours cut, all due to ObamaCare, are everywhere. But the media intentionally refuse to do anything other than dutifully cover these individual stories. Were they to focus on this horrific consequence that is disproportionately affecting the working poor, it would likely turn even more people against ObamaCare -- something the media just aren't going to allow to happen.

And the people callously being thrown into this maelstrom aren't The Wealthy, aren't Mitt Romney, aren't the Top 1%, aren't even Tea Partiers -- they are the very people Obama repeatedly promised could keep their insurance and that he would never tax.
Et tu, CBS?

I think some people are going to definitely need insurance to pay for treatment for emotional distress involved in trying to get insurance. This NY man spent 5 hours on the website, 3 hours in live chat and 4 1/2 hours on the phone. And still didn't manage to get anywhere.

EiFM5FkHcpM

Hello again, Steve:

The problem you have is that the website WILL be fixed, and it'll be EVIDENT to everybody - ceptin maybe you..

excon

And when he finds out what his premium is ,he'll be fainting like that women yesterday in the Rose Garden.

Hello again, Steve:

The problem you have is that the website WILL be fixed, and it'll be EVIDENT to everybody - ceptin maybe you..

excon

How long must we endure this "trust us, it will all be awesome some day" BS before you true believers get fed up with not only the total incompetence in the drafting and execution of it, but the secrecy and damned lies (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/10/22/jumping-ship-how-pundit-class-turned-on-obamacare/?cmpid=cmty_twitter_fn) the admin keeps feeding us? Do you like being lied to now?


Mark Halperin, the “Game Change” coauthor and a regular on [Morning Joe], called the rollout “unacceptable” and added that “the secrecy is unacceptable,” accusing the administration of withholding information about how many people have signed up.

His fellow panelist, liberal commentator Mike Barnicle, ratcheted up from there: “They’re lying about it now,” he said. “They’re not depriving us of information, they are outright lying.” The former Boston Globe columnist called the administration’s conduct “unacceptable.”

On “CBS This Morning,” the network’s political director, John Dickerson, calls the rollout “a total fiasco,” saying the administration is getting into a “credibility death spiral.” …

As liberal Washington Post blogger Ezra Klein tweeted in mid-address, “So far, this seems weirdly similar to the speech Obama would’ve given if the exchanges were working fine.”

But they’re not working fine, and White House reporters pressed Jay Carney aggressively about what the president knew, when he knew it and whether the administration owes the country an apology. (During the shutdown, you’ll recall, the press corps didn’t ask the president a single ObamaCare question at a news conference.)

Consumer Reports has some advice for those trying to sign on... Try it again in a month...




Frustrated by trying to register on HealthCare.gov? You're hardly alone. Of the 9.47 million people who tried to register in the first week, only 271,00 were able to create an account, according to one analysis. That's about 1 in 35. Many people couldn't even create user names and passwords. For tips on how to get past the roadblocks, we talked with a Phoenix software tester named Ben Simo. When he got stuck trying to register a family member, Simo used his professional know-how to look beneath the hood and come up with some suggestions for creating a Healthcare.gov user account that actually works.

1. Follow instructions when creating a user name.

That's not as easy as it seems. For the user name, put in everything mentioned in the garbled instructions: at least seven characters that include at least one upper-case letter, one lower-case letter, one number, and one of the permitted symbols. Also follow the password instructions to the letter. (Simo says the instructions are needlessly complicated and logins will end up being less secure because users will be putting the info on Post-Its stuck to their computers, as indeed I have done with my own.)

2. Move on immediately from failed logins.

If you're having trouble creating a user name and password, “don't believe all the status and error messages that you see on the screen,” Simo said. “They may not always match reality.” That's what Simo saw when he looked at the underlying Javascript on one of his failed attempts. If anything at all doesn't go right, immediately try a different name, password, and/or security questions.





Health reform countdown: We are doing an article a day on the new health care law until Jan. 1, 2014, when it takes full effect. (Read the previous posts in the series.) To get health insurance advice tailored to your situation, use our Health Law Helper.





3. Check your inbox frequently.

If you are truly successful, you should receive an “account activation” e-mail within a few hours to verify that the email address you gave was legit. Answer it promptly, because if you don't, Healthcare.gov will time you out. If the e-mail never comes, you'll have to go back to square one.

4. Clear your cookies.

Your next hurdle after creating a functioning user name and password is to reach the identity verification section. If you log in to Healthcare.gov and get nothing but a blank page, what's likely happening, Simo says, is that in your previous visits to Healthcare.gov, your browser got loaded up with lots of cookies, bits of data and code that are implanted for later retrieval and use by Healthcare.gov. The problem is that the cookie files are bigger than what the website can accept back (yes, a design error). Result: a blank page. Solution: either delete the Healthcare.gov cookies from your browser (typically found in the “privacy” settings in Preferences), or log back in from a browser you've never previously used to access Healthcare.gov. That advice rang especially true to me because that's how I finally got an identity verification screen: by switching from my usual Safari browser to another that I rarely use.


If all this is too much for you to absorb, follow our previous advice: Stay away from Healthcare.gov for at least another month if you can. Hopefully that will be long enough for its software vendors to clean up the mess they've made. The coverage available through the marketplaces won't begin until Jan. 1, 2014, at the earliest, and you have until Dec. 15 to enroll if you need insurance that starts promptly.
Tips for creating a Healthcare.gov account - Consumer Reports News (http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2013/10/tips-for-creating-heathcare-gov-acount/index.htm)

This never even worked in testing BEFORE it was rolled out...

Report: Healthcare website failed test ahead of rollout - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/politics/obamacare-website-problems/)

And that's from CNN who has been nothing but PRO-Obama for the last 5 years.

Hello again,

Yeah, the website sucks.. But, it's gonna get fixed.. Then what are you gonna snivel about?

Yaaaaaawn.

excon

Hello again,

Yeah, the website sucks.. But, it's gonna get fixed.. Then what are you gonna snivel about?

Yaaaaaawn.

excon

The right never runs out of things to snivel about... NEVER!